Re: *** NEGATIVE MGB STATEMENT BY ALVARADO CENTER ***

[Guest guest]

> Greetings All,

>

> I am considering having the MGB with Dr. Rutledge in NC. I have

> spent hours at his site so far and I have been very impressed

> with what I have seen and heard.

>

> >

> Loop Gastric Bypass ( " Mini Gastric Bypass " )

>

> This form of Gastric Bypass was developed years ago, and has

> generally been abandoned by nearly all bariatric surgeons as unsafe

>

>

> I would appreciate any comments regarding this statement.

>

> Many thanks,

>

> Elliott Stern

> Las Vegas, Nevada

> < deslv@u... >

Hi ,

I am sure you will get lots of responses tomorrow when more people

are

awake. This has been an issues since at least June when Dr. Rutledge

presented the paper that is on his website to the ASBS. Dr. R's

surgery is not the same as the old mason loop. It is a variation on

the Billroth II. The main difference is the size and placement of

the

new stomach pouch which is created. This differnece is crucial to

the main argument against the MGB. I cannot answer as to why so many

surgeons can't see this difference. I met with one at Ohio State

Univ

in early July. He was given the MGB manual and the diagrams. He

said

he looked at them, but in my presence, he wouldn't look at them and

wouldn't discuss the possible differences in the surgeries, let alone

the difference in the outcomes from Dr. R's data. IT was strange,

stubborn and arrogant. Not at all scientific or professional.

One thing that makes me comfortable with this controversy right now

is

that Dr. Rutledge is so open about it. He quotes the clinic you did

on his website and gives links to it. He has really tried over the

summer to get very specific about the differences in the actual

surgeries and outcomes. He has added a test for pre-ops and

discussing this issue is a big part of the test. Look over the new

stuff on the website about the old loop vs the mgb and the new

picture

description of surgery.

I will not try to address why this CA clinic is such a vocal

antagonist of the MGB, but I am sure that others will for you.

Rest assured that you have not discovered something new and that most

if not all of us have read it all, processed it and found the

arguments against the MGB to be very flawed and misinformed whether

intentional or not.

Keep reading and searching. If you didn't get upset about such a

statement, we would question your intelligence. This is an extremely

important decision. The MGB is not for everyone, but his results

speak for themselves.

Best wishes -

Laurie

[Guest guest]

,

Check out Dr. R's website www. clos. net (remove spaces). The second

bullet goes point-by-point and counters each of the criticisms of the

MGB made by Alvarado's Drs. He also has a section on his paper

presented to the ASBS.

My 2 cents - The RNY Drs. have a vested interest in promoting the RNY

(and criticizing the MGB) because their cash cow is threatened. The

RNY puts a lot more cash in the surgeon's pocket and the hospital's

coffers. Meanwhile, for the patient surgery & recovery time is

longer with the RNY. The RNY gives a 1 oz. pouch, the MGB gives a 3

oz. pouch. The 3 oz. pouch lets you live a more normal life. And,

if ever needed, the RNY is very difficult to revise, unlike the MGB

which can be revised laprascopically.

Best of luck in your decision.

Sincerely,

Bernardine

, TX

MGB 7/24/00

248/218

> Greetings All,

>

> I am considering having the MGB with Dr. Rutledge in NC. I have

> spent hours at his site so far and I have been very impressed

> with what I have seen and heard.

>

> There is only one Dr. doing the surgery here in Las Vegas, NV his

> name is Dr. Barry Fisher. However he is not doing the Lap

procedure

> RNY on men, why, I have no idea.

>

> I am a self pay and so I can choose who I want to do the surgery.

I

> have been considering this surgery for over 1 year now.

>

> I was all but sold on the Mini-Gastric Bypass procedure until to my

> horror I read the following on the Alvarado Center for Weight

Control

> in San Diego:

>

>

>

> Loop Gastric Bypass ( " Mini Gastric Bypass " )

>

> This form of Gastric Bypass was developed years ago, and has

> generally been abandoned by nearly all bariatric surgeons as unsafe

> --

> several years ago, a consensus of the American Society for

Bariatric

> Surgery was that the procedure should never be performed.

>

> Although easier to perform than the Roux en-Y, it creates a

> severe hazard in the event of any leakage after surgery, and

> seriously

> increases the risk of ulcer formation, and irritation of the

stomach

> pouch by bile.

>

> Many persons who underwent this procedure in the past have

> required major revisional operations to correct severe discomfort

and

> life-threatening pathophysiologic effects.

>

> Most bariatric surgeons agree that this operation is obsolete,

> and should remain defunct.

>

> This operation has been resurrected, in order to make the

> laparoscopic procedure easier to perform, by possibly less skilled

> surgeons. As shown, the gastric pouch is excessively large, which

> may

> lead to loss of weight control over time.

>

> A fundamental principle of laparoscopic surgery is that the

> underlying operation should not be compromised or degraded, in

order

> to accomplish it by using limited access techniques. The loop

bypass

> does not meet this standard. There is no reliable long-term data

to

> support use of this anatomic variation.

>

> The above quote is listed at the following link:

> http://www.gastricbypass.com/

>

>

>

> I would appreciate any comments regarding this statement.

>

>

>

> Many thanks,

>

> Elliott Stern

> Las Vegas, Nevada

> < deslv@u... >

[Guest guest]

Dear , Dr Rutledge has just posted some new information on his

site that answers your question better than I can. Go to

http://clos.net/old-loop.htm and also clos.net/grumpy/grumpy.htm and

you will see his response.

As for what I know personally, I started on my WLS journey after

hearing about Carni 's surgery. Her Dr. is at Alvarado Center.

I first filled out all their information and sent it in, only to have

someone from their office call and tell me that they had called my

insurance co, and had been told they did not cover WLS. They then

informed my that I should make an appointment and bring along $7,600

for the Dr. fee, after that all my dealings with them lead me to

conclude, that they were really more interested in my money than

helping me as an obese person. Thank God I found Dr Rutledge's'

site

and after extensive research, my husband and I concluded that this

was a far better procedure. I filled out the online information form

and after it was submitted to my insurance Co it was approved in just

five days. I then went thru Dr Rutledge's' extensive requirements

and

was finally approved by him for surgery. I flew from San Obispo

Ca to Durham NC by way of three planes, and stayed in a motel suite

for 9 days in order to have my surgery with Dr Rutledge. I had my

surgery just 11 days ago and I know in my head and in my heart that

this is the very best thing I could have done for myself, I am so

happy that Alvarado Center did not work to get my insurance approved,

otherwise I would have never found The talented Dr Rutledge. My

experience with the surgery was exceptional for me, but not unusual

for his patients. My surgery took 28 minutes and although I awoke in

discomfort the pain pump managed my pain. I left the hospital 24

hours latter and never took another pain pill. The second night I

went to dinner with my husband and stopped at the grocery store for a

few items. The next morning I walked over to the Pharmacy to fill my

pain pill prescription, but I never used any, after that I went to

the mall and bought curtains and a new bedspread. Day four we toured

Raleigh by car and then stopped at a huge mall for a couple of hours.

While in Durham I also visited a Life and Science museum and visited

my husband's relatives and visited many furniture stores. All of

this

before I would have even been out of the hospital if I had gone to

Alvarado Center for surgery. I hope this in some way helps answer

your questions. If you need further information from me please don't

hesitate to email me a sumlinsr @ charter.net (remove spaces)

Sincerely

Marjory Sumlin

8/30/00

285/269

> Greetings All,

>

> I am considering having the MGB with Dr. Rutledge in NC. I have

> spent hours at his site so far and I have been very impressed

> with what I have seen and heard.

>

> There is only one Dr. doing the surgery here in Las Vegas, NV his

> name is Dr. Barry Fisher. However he is not doing the Lap

procedure

> RNY on men, why, I have no idea.

>

> I am a self pay and so I can choose who I want to do the surgery.

I

> have been considering this surgery for over 1 year now.

>

> I was all but sold on the Mini-Gastric Bypass procedure until to my

> horror I read the following on the Alvarado Center for Weight

Control

> in San Diego:

>

>

>

> Loop Gastric Bypass ( " Mini Gastric Bypass " )

>

> This form of Gastric Bypass was developed years ago, and has

> generally been abandoned by nearly all bariatric surgeons as unsafe

> --

> several years ago, a consensus of the American Society for

Bariatric

> Surgery was that the procedure should never be performed.

>

> Although easier to perform than the Roux en-Y, it creates a

> severe hazard in the event of any leakage after surgery, and

> seriously

> increases the risk of ulcer formation, and irritation of the

stomach

> pouch by bile.

>

> Many persons who underwent this procedure in the past have

> required major revisional operations to correct severe discomfort

and

> life-threatening pathophysiologic effects.

>

> Most bariatric surgeons agree that this operation is obsolete,

> and should remain defunct.

>

> This operation has been resurrected, in order to make the

> laparoscopic procedure easier to perform, by possibly less skilled

> surgeons. As shown, the gastric pouch is excessively large, which

> may

> lead to loss of weight control over time.

>

> A fundamental principle of laparoscopic surgery is that the

> underlying operation should not be compromised or degraded, in

order

> to accomplish it by using limited access techniques. The loop

bypass

> does not meet this standard. There is no reliable long-term data

to

> support use of this anatomic variation.

>

> The above quote is listed at the following link:

> http://www.gastricbypass.com/

>

>

>

> I would appreciate any comments regarding this statement.

>

>

>

> Many thanks,

>

> Elliott Stern

> Las Vegas, Nevada

> < deslv@u... >

[Guest guest]

Hi Marjory,

I am suppose to make about 11 contacts with other patients. Would mind being on

of them. I am not sure what info. I need to get from you.

Many thanks,

Elliott Stern

Las Vegas, NV

sumlinsr@... wrote:

> Dear , Dr Rutledge has just posted some new information on his

> site that answers your question better than I can. Go to

> http://clos.net/old-loop.htm and also clos.net/grumpy/grumpy.htm and

> you will see his response.

> As for what I know personally, I started on my WLS journey after

> hearing about Carni 's surgery. Her Dr. is at Alvarado Center.

> I first filled out all their information and sent it in, only to have

> someone from their office call and tell me that they had called my

> insurance co, and had been told they did not cover WLS. They then

> informed my that I should make an appointment and bring along $7,600

> for the Dr. fee, after that all my dealings with them lead me to

> conclude, that they were really more interested in my money than

> helping me as an obese person. Thank God I found Dr Rutledge's'

> site

> and after extensive research, my husband and I concluded that this

> was a far better procedure. I filled out the online information form

> and after it was submitted to my insurance Co it was approved in just

> five days. I then went thru Dr Rutledge's' extensive requirements

> and

> was finally approved by him for surgery. I flew from San Obispo

> Ca to Durham NC by way of three planes, and stayed in a motel suite

> for 9 days in order to have my surgery with Dr Rutledge. I had my

> surgery just 11 days ago and I know in my head and in my heart that

> this is the very best thing I could have done for myself, I am so

> happy that Alvarado Center did not work to get my insurance approved,

> otherwise I would have never found The talented Dr Rutledge. My

> experience with the surgery was exceptional for me, but not unusual

> for his patients. My surgery took 28 minutes and although I awoke in

> discomfort the pain pump managed my pain. I left the hospital 24

> hours latter and never took another pain pill. The second night I

> went to dinner with my husband and stopped at the grocery store for a

> few items. The next morning I walked over to the Pharmacy to fill my

> pain pill prescription, but I never used any, after that I went to

> the mall and bought curtains and a new bedspread. Day four we toured

> Raleigh by car and then stopped at a huge mall for a couple of hours.

> While in Durham I also visited a Life and Science museum and visited

> my husband's relatives and visited many furniture stores. All of

> this

> before I would have even been out of the hospital if I had gone to

> Alvarado Center for surgery. I hope this in some way helps answer

> your questions. If you need further information from me please don't

> hesitate to email me a sumlinsr @ charter.net (remove spaces)

> Sincerely

>

> Marjory Sumlin

> 8/30/00

> 285/269

>

> > Greetings All,

> >

> > I am considering having the MGB with Dr. Rutledge in NC. I have

> > spent hours at his site so far and I have been very impressed

> > with what I have seen and heard.

> >

> > There is only one Dr. doing the surgery here in Las Vegas, NV his

> > name is Dr. Barry Fisher. However he is not doing the Lap

> procedure

> > RNY on men, why, I have no idea.

> >

> > I am a self pay and so I can choose who I want to do the surgery.

> I

> > have been considering this surgery for over 1 year now.

> >

> > I was all but sold on the Mini-Gastric Bypass procedure until to my

> > horror I read the following on the Alvarado Center for Weight

> Control

> > in San Diego:

> >

> >

> >

> > Loop Gastric Bypass ( " Mini Gastric Bypass " )

> >

> > This form of Gastric Bypass was developed years ago, and has

> > generally been abandoned by nearly all bariatric surgeons as unsafe

> > --

> > several years ago, a consensus of the American Society for

> Bariatric

> > Surgery was that the procedure should never be performed.

> >

> > Although easier to perform than the Roux en-Y, it creates a

> > severe hazard in the event of any leakage after surgery, and

> > seriously

> > increases the risk of ulcer formation, and irritation of the

> stomach

> > pouch by bile.

> >

> > Many persons who underwent this procedure in the past have

> > required major revisional operations to correct severe discomfort

> and

> > life-threatening pathophysiologic effects.

> >

> > Most bariatric surgeons agree that this operation is obsolete,

> > and should remain defunct.

> >

> > This operation has been resurrected, in order to make the

> > laparoscopic procedure easier to perform, by possibly less skilled

> > surgeons. As shown, the gastric pouch is excessively large, which

> > may

> > lead to loss of weight control over time.

> >

> > A fundamental principle of laparoscopic surgery is that the

> > underlying operation should not be compromised or degraded, in

> order

> > to accomplish it by using limited access techniques. The loop

> bypass

> > does not meet this standard. There is no reliable long-term data

> to

> > support use of this anatomic variation.

> >

> > The above quote is listed at the following link:

> > http://www.gastricbypass.com/

> >

> >

> >

> > I would appreciate any comments regarding this statement.

> >

> >

> >

> > Many thanks,

> >

> > Elliott Stern

> > Las Vegas, Nevada

> > < deslv@u... >

>

> This message is from the Mini-Gastric Bypass Mailing List at Onelist.com

> Please visit our web site at http://clos.net

> Get the Patient Manual at http://clos.net/get_patient_manual.htm

>

> and for more on the MGB,Don't miss :

> http://www.fourlane.com/mgb

>

> To Unsubscribe Send and Email to: MiniGastricBypass-unsubscribe (AT) egroups (DOT) com

[Guest guest]

Hi , I am only a newbie, but I would be glad to be a contact. I

am web only on this site so I can't read your email address. Email me

and I will respond.

Marjory

8/30/00

285/269

> > > Greetings All,

> > >

> > > I am considering having the MGB with Dr. Rutledge in NC. I have

> > > spent hours at his site so far and I have been very impressed

> > > with what I have seen and heard.

> > >

> > > There is only one Dr. doing the surgery here in Las Vegas, NV

his

> > > name is Dr. Barry Fisher. However he is not doing the Lap

> > procedure

> > > RNY on men, why, I have no idea.

> > >

> > > I am a self pay and so I can choose who I want to do the

surgery.

> > I

> > > have been considering this surgery for over 1 year now.

> > >

> > > I was all but sold on the Mini-Gastric Bypass procedure until

to my

> > > horror I read the following on the Alvarado Center for Weight

> > Control

> > > in San Diego:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Loop Gastric Bypass ( " Mini Gastric Bypass " )

> > >

> > > This form of Gastric Bypass was developed years ago, and

has

> > > generally been abandoned by nearly all bariatric surgeons as

unsafe

> > > --

> > > several years ago, a consensus of the American Society for

> > Bariatric

> > > Surgery was that the procedure should never be performed.

> > >

> > > Although easier to perform than the Roux en-Y, it creates a

> > > severe hazard in the event of any leakage after surgery, and

> > > seriously

> > > increases the risk of ulcer formation, and irritation of the

> > stomach

> > > pouch by bile.

> > >

> > > Many persons who underwent this procedure in the past have

> > > required major revisional operations to correct severe

discomfort

> > and

> > > life-threatening pathophysiologic effects.

> > >

> > > Most bariatric surgeons agree that this operation is

obsolete,

> > > and should remain defunct.

> > >

> > > This operation has been resurrected, in order to make the

> > > laparoscopic procedure easier to perform, by possibly less

skilled

> > > surgeons. As shown, the gastric pouch is excessively large,

which

> > > may

> > > lead to loss of weight control over time.

> > >

> > > A fundamental principle of laparoscopic surgery is that the

> > > underlying operation should not be compromised or degraded, in

> > order

> > > to accomplish it by using limited access techniques. The loop

> > bypass

> > > does not meet this standard. There is no reliable long-term

data

> > to

> > > support use of this anatomic variation.

> > >

> > > The above quote is listed at the following link:

> > > http://www.gastricbypass.com/

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I would appreciate any comments regarding this statement.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Many thanks,

> > >

> > > Elliott Stern

> > > Las Vegas, Nevada

> > > < deslv@u... >

> >

> > This message is from the Mini-Gastric Bypass Mailing List at

Onelist.com

> > Please visit our web site at http://clos.net

> > Get the Patient Manual at http://clos.net/get_patient_manual.htm

> >

> > and for more on the MGB,Don't miss :

> > http://www.fourlane.com/mgb

> >

> > To Unsubscribe Send and Email to: MiniGastricBypass-

unsubscribe (AT) egroups (DOT) com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/11/2000 4:05:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

judith98101@... writes:

<<

And : try to find out why your other surgeon won't do LAP RNY on men.

I've been on a number of sites, but never heard that one before, have you? >>

DR. Fisher,

Does not like to lap's on any patient. He takes approximately 5

hours to do one

[Guest guest]

Oh, so it's not the RNY part that is a problem, but the lap part? But why

specifically related to men? Thanks Metrisha.

Judith in Seattle

Re: *** NEGATIVE MGB STATEMENT BY ALVARADO

CENTER ***

> In a message dated 9/11/2000 4:05:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> judith98101@... writes:

>

> <<

> And : try to find out why your other surgeon won't do LAP RNY on

men.

> I've been on a number of sites, but never heard that one before, have

you? >>

>

> DR. Fisher,

> Does not like to lap's on any patient. He takes approximately

5

> hours to do one

>

> This message is from the Mini-Gastric Bypass Mailing List at Onelist.com

> Please visit our web site at http://clos.net

> Get the Patient Manual at http://clos.net/get_patient_manual.htm

>

> and for more on the MGB,Don't miss :

> http://www.fourlane.com/mgb

>

> To Unsubscribe Send and Email to:

MiniGastricBypass-unsubscribe (AT) egroups (DOT) com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/11/2000 3:09:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

judith98101@... writes:

<<

Oh, so it's not the RNY part that is a problem, but the lap part? But why

specifically related to men? Thanks Metrisha.

Judith in Seattle

Judith,

Dr. Fisher just does not like doing lap's period. He told Dave it

was because he was a man, he told me they were not as safe as an open. I

think everyone gets a different story.

----- Original Message ----- >>

Trish Lanman

MGB 6/01/2000

start weight: 242

surgery: 212

9/10/2000: 185

goal: 125

self pay

Captain of the GREEN TEAM

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/11/2000 3:37:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

judith98101@... writes:

<<

Metrisha: Maybe Fisher is just developing his skills: everybody had to

start somewhere? Look how RR's times have gone down since he started MG >>

Judith,

You could be right. However 2 of my Doctors asked me please do not

go to him. That was enough for me.

Trish

[Guest guest]

Metrisha: Maybe Fisher is just developing his skills: everybody had to

start somewhere? Look how RR's times have gone down since he started MGB.

Judith in Seattle

Re: *** NEGATIVE MGB STATEMENT BY ALVARADO

> CENTER ***

>

>

> > In a message dated 9/11/2000 4:05:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> > judith98101@... writes:

> >

> > <<

> > And : try to find out why your other surgeon won't do LAP RNY on

> men.

> > I've been on a number of sites, but never heard that one before, have

> you? >>

> >

> > DR. Fisher,

> > Does not like to lap's on any patient. He takes

approximately

> 5

> > hours to do one

> >

> > This message is from the Mini-Gastric Bypass Mailing List at Onelist.com

> > Please visit our web site at http://clos.net

> > Get the Patient Manual at http://clos.net/get_patient_manual.htm

> >

> > and for more on the MGB,Don't miss :

> > http://www.fourlane.com/mgb

> >

> > To Unsubscribe Send and Email to:

> MiniGastricBypass-unsubscribe (AT) egroups (DOT) com

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> This message is from the Mini-Gastric Bypass Mailing List at Onelist.com

> Please visit our web site at http://clos.net

> Get the Patient Manual at http://clos.net/get_patient_manual.htm

>

> and for more on the MGB,Don't miss :

> http://www.fourlane.com/mgb

>

> To Unsubscribe Send and Email to:

MiniGastricBypass-unsubscribe (AT) egroups (DOT) com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, that would have been enough for me too.

Judith in Seattle

Re: *** NEGATIVE MGB STATEMENT BY ALVARADO

CENTER ***

> In a message dated 9/11/2000 3:37:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> judith98101@... writes:

>

> <<

> Metrisha: Maybe Fisher is just developing his skills: everybody had to

> start somewhere? Look how RR's times have gone down since he started MG

>>

>

> Judith,

> You could be right. However 2 of my Doctors asked me please do

not

> go to him. That was enough for me.

> Trish

>

> This message is from the Mini-Gastric Bypass Mailing List at Onelist.com

> Please visit our web site at http://clos.net

> Get the Patient Manual at http://clos.net/get_patient_manual.htm

>

> and for more on the MGB,Don't miss :

> http://www.fourlane.com/mgb

>

> To Unsubscribe Send and Email to:

MiniGastricBypass-unsubscribe (AT) egroups (DOT) com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, thanks for the clarification.

Judith in Seattle

Re: *** NEGATIVE MGB STATEMENT BY ALVARADO

CENTER ***

> In a message dated 9/11/2000 3:09:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> judith98101@... writes:

>

> <<

> Oh, so it's not the RNY part that is a problem, but the lap part? But

why

> specifically related to men? Thanks Metrisha.

> Judith in Seattle

>

> Judith,

> Dr. Fisher just does not like doing lap's period. He told Dave it

> was because he was a man, he told me they were not as safe as an open. I

> think everyone gets a different story.

>

>

> ----- Original Message ----- >>

>

>

>

>

> Trish Lanman

> MGB 6/01/2000

> start weight: 242

> surgery: 212

> 9/10/2000: 185

> goal: 125

> self pay

> Captain of the GREEN TEAM

>

>

> This message is from the Mini-Gastric Bypass Mailing List at Onelist.com

> Please visit our web site at http://clos.net

> Get the Patient Manual at http://clos.net/get_patient_manual.htm

>

> and for more on the MGB,Don't miss :

> http://www.fourlane.com/mgb

>

> To Unsubscribe Send and Email to:

MiniGastricBypass-unsubscribe (AT) egroups (DOT) com

>

>

>