Re: SCD without fruit

[Guest guest]

Hi Debora,

> I'm just at the end of the 3rd year mark on SCD, and I was doing

great

> until an antibiotic shot last December, and I basically had to

start

> over again. I'm an adult with colonic CD. After a month's

diarrhea in

> January, I finally had to pull all fruit and honey to get stable,

and I

> added s.boulardii to my regime of probiotics. I had inflammation

again

> after the antibiotic, though it was slowly coming down, and I was

> feeling progressively better, as long as I didn't eat anything

sweet. .

> A Geneva diagnostics test showed no yeast, but also no

acidopholus. So

> I started eating some fruit and honey again. Even eating a

little bit

> caused terrible vaginal and anal itching, and a return of acne,

which

> was subsiding for the first time since my CD diagnosis (17 years),

> which was interesting, since even the wonderful year before that

> antibiotic, in which my CD was totally in remission, I still had

> constant acne. I was still having solid stools, though there was

more

> mucus, so I kept eating fruit as the season progressed.

>

> But it finally caught up to me, and brought a return of diarrhea,

so I

> eliminated fruit and honey again, and have solid stools finally,

after

> about 10 days. But I am absolutely exhausted; fuzzy brained,

almost

> dizzy, so tired. I had no appetite those last 10 days of

diarrhea, and

> felt even worse, so I'm so happy to have solid stools again, and a

> return of appetite. The itching has almost gone, and my skin is

> clearing quickly. I know I'm on the right track without the fruit

and

> honey, and I think that stool test was just innacurate concerning

> yeast. Especially since I feel SO TIRED, and even going into the

third

> week of no fruit/no honey, I'm just exhausted and trying not to

get too

> depressed about it. We also had a cold virus going around the

house a

> few weeks ago, which I suppose could be adding to the mix.

>

> But my question is, as long as I am eating a wide variety of

> vegetables (and before this fruit regression, I was tolerating

salads,

> coleslaw, lots of different cooked and raw vegetables.) is it safe

to

> go so long without fruit or honey? I know Elaine said it was

critical

> to include it, but if even a small amount causes itching and

looser

> stools, it seems safer to avoid it and have solid bowel movements

and

> better energy. The fact that I'm feeling like I got hit by a

truck

> makes me think that die-off is occuring, and I should have avoided

> fruit and honey longer than I did.

It is very difficult to get enough carbohydrates without the honey

and fruit. Which fruits are you trying and are they raw or peeled

and cooked? I have had similar problems recently with antibiotics

and yeast etc.. I have found that for me very ripe banana is okay

in small amounts throughout the day, but honey and other fruits

(like homemade applesauce etc.) go right through - diarrhea, gas etc.

If I eat too much banana things get loose and if I eat the banana

without some form of protein (piece of cheese or with a meal etc..)

stools will loosen up.

The fatigue you are feeling may be due to die off from the GSE and

oregenol or it may be from lack of carbs or a combination of both.

Are you eating the yogurt apart from the GSE? The GSE extract *may*

harm the good bacteria - the jury is out on that. At least 2-3

hours apart should be sufficient.

Are you still taking the S. boulardii?

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 22yrs

mom of and

[Guest guest]

>

> It is very difficult to get enough carbohydrates without the honey

> and fruit. Which fruits are you trying and are they raw or peeled

> and cooked? I

I first tried a little bit of homemade applesauce, and some blueberries

(like 3 a day) and that was fine, though I noticed more mucus, so I

guess it wasn't really fine. My problem is in the descending colon and

rectum, so I usually have no issues until it has a chance to get

through the whole colon. The problem is, once I start eating a little

bit, I lose self-control, and start eating more and more; and then have

a problem. Had I stuck with a tablespoon of applesauce once a day, I

probably would have been OK - but I still got itchy and the mucus, so I

think even a little bit wasn't really good.

>

>

> The fatigue you are feeling may be due to die off from the GSE and

> oregenol or it may be from lack of carbs or a combination of both.

I will pick up some squash at the Farmer's market tomorrow; I've been

eating zucchini, but the hard squash will give me more carbs. Can die

off happen for weeks? I'm having good signs; solid stools again (thank

God!), the itchiness is WAY down, and my skin is clearing. So I'm

hesitant to start experimenting with fruit, since it only seems to

bring all of these symptoms back. I would like some energy, though.

>

> Are you eating the yogurt apart from the GSE? The GSE extract *may*

> harm the good bacteria - the jury is out on that. At least 2-3

> hours apart should be sufficient.

>

I do eat them apart. I have 3 cups of yogurt at different times of the

day; GSE in the morning after breakfast, 2 hours at least after my

probiotics.

> Are you still taking the S. boulardii?

Yes; 4 of the Kirkman's a day. I'm going to stick with them this time,

since a study showed they helped keep CD in remission, and hopefully

they will continue to crowd out whatever bad guys I've got down there,

until a better gut population moves in. It was sad to find out I had

no acidopholus, despite Custom Probiotics and large quantities of

yogurt.

I'm thinking that our variety of fruits and vegetables is due to

availability of growing world wide; and in many cultures, fruit would

only be available in the summertime. I had a friend from Slovakia come

stay with us, and he said he and his family only ate cabbage, potatoes,

meat and greens and various vegetables in the winter time; occasionally

an orange would make it to his country in December, but was extremely

expensive. And they all live well into their 80's and 90's. I live in

California, where you can grow many things year-round, but I'm thinking

that perhaps it's not so normal to eat fruit daily, year round. Just

trying to make myself feel less deprived!

Debora

[Guest guest]

Debora,

You said:

<<It was sad to find out I had

no acidopholus, despite Custom Probiotics and large quantities of

yogurt>>

I have to admit, I have zero experience with the testing, but I have to wonder

about results like that. Doesn't seem logical.

However, I do remember Elaine saying that acidophilus, despite being a " friendly

flora " does NOT actually take up residence in the gut, which is why we have to

keep eating it every day.

So... I just wonder how significant it is when a test shows none? Sure wish she

was around so we could ask her!

Patti

[Guest guest]

Hi Debora,

> > It is very difficult to get enough carbohydrates without the

honey

> > and fruit. Which fruits are you trying and are they raw or

peeled

> > and cooked? I

> I first tried a little bit of homemade applesauce, and some

blueberries

> (like 3 a day) and that was fine, though I noticed more mucus, so

I

> guess it wasn't really fine. My problem is in the descending

colon and

> rectum, so I usually have no issues until it has a chance to get

> through the whole colon. The problem is, once I start eating a

little

> bit, I lose self-control, and start eating more and more; and then

have

> a problem. Had I stuck with a tablespoon of applesauce once a

day, I

> probably would have been OK - but I still got itchy and the mucus,

so I

> think even a little bit wasn't really good.

The blueberries were probably a bit harder to digest because of the

seeds and skins. For some reason with my particular yeast problems

homemade applesauce didn't work, but the ripe banana did. I would

freeze very ripe banana and break off small pieces to have a few

times/day.

> > The fatigue you are feeling may be due to die off from the GSE

and

> > oregenol or it may be from lack of carbs or a combination of

both.

> I will pick up some squash at the Farmer's market tomorrow; I've

been

> eating zucchini, but the hard squash will give me more carbs. Can

die

> off happen for weeks? I'm having good signs; solid stools again

(thank

> God!), the itchiness is WAY down, and my skin is clearing. So I'm

> hesitant to start experimenting with fruit, since it only seems to

> bring all of these symptoms back. I would like some energy,

though.

The winter squash should help give you more carbs (it is higher in

carbs than most legal veggies.) Yes, for some people the die off

can go on for a long time - it depends on how bad an overgrowth you

have, what you're eating, what microbes you have partying etc.. If

your stool is improving that's a good sign.

> > Are you eating the yogurt apart from the GSE? The GSE extract

*may*

> > harm the good bacteria - the jury is out on that. At least 2-3

> > hours apart should be sufficient.

> >

> I do eat them apart. I have 3 cups of yogurt at different times

of the

> day; GSE in the morning after breakfast, 2 hours at least after my

> probiotics.

>

> > Are you still taking the S. boulardii?

> Yes; 4 of the Kirkman's a day. I'm going to stick with them this

time,

> since a study showed they helped keep CD in remission, and

hopefully

> they will continue to crowd out whatever bad guys I've got down

there,

> until a better gut population moves in. It was sad to find out I

had

> no acidopholus, despite Custom Probiotics and large quantities of

> yogurt.

>

> I'm thinking that our variety of fruits and vegetables is due to

> availability of growing world wide; and in many cultures, fruit

would

> only be available in the summertime. I had a friend from Slovakia

come

> stay with us, and he said he and his family only ate cabbage,

potatoes,

> meat and greens and various vegetables in the winter time;

occasionally

> an orange would make it to his country in December, but was

extremely

> expensive. And they all live well into their 80's and 90's. I

live in

> California, where you can grow many things year-round, but I'm

thinking

> that perhaps it's not so normal to eat fruit daily, year round.

Just

> trying to make myself feel less deprived!

You might want to try epsom salt baths and/or the activated charcoal

to see if that helps with the die off. Let me know if you continue

to have the fatigue.

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 22yrs

mom of and