Re: Turnip - is the issue poly- or di-saccharides? Or something else?

[Guest guest]

Well, I don't know about monosaccharide or disaccharide - haven't found

those on the Internet as of yet. But, I did find a page that lists starches

in terms of g/100g

And, I know that starches are a primary concern. *shrug*

Maybe this will help someone explain.

http://www.kickas.org/ubbthreads/showthreaded

php?Cat=0 & Number=146875 & an=0 & page=0

Jazz

-- Turnip - is the issue poly- or di-saccharides? Or

something else?

I noticed that Elaine took turnips off the legal list only very late,

and that they were permitted up to that point.

Does anyone know what the issue is with turnips? Is is a monosaccharide

or a disaccharide? Or is there some other reason Elaine made it illegal?

My other option is rutabaga - any information on what the pros and cons

are with rutabaga?

Before anyone jumps all over me, this is for my son whose inflammation

is healed, whose yeast is gone, but who has so many food allergies that

he has very little to eat (only 6 foods, and we must rotate every 2

days). His diet is extremely thin to the point I've been told it's not

medically sustainable. We can't find celeriac anymore, and it was a

staple of his rotation diet, we need something to replace it with. The

only other options are grains, and we don't want to go there.

Thank you,

Suzanne

Tom 3.8, ASD, 6 mos. SCD

[Guest guest]

>

> I noticed that Elaine took turnips off the legal list only very late,

> and that they were permitted up to that point.

>

> Does anyone know what the issue is with turnips? Is is a monosaccharide

> or a disaccharide? Or is there some other reason Elaine made it illegal?

>

> My other option is rutabaga - any information on what the pros and cons

> are with rutabaga?

Turnip was removed because enough people had a problem with it to

give Elaine second thoughts because it is starchy. On page 74, edition 10 of

BTVC sje

states it can be tried after a considerable length oif time. A search of the

Lagal Food list on

Elaine's website says rutabaga is legal but go slowly with it.

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/legal/legal_illegal_o-s.htm

Carol F.

SCD 6 years, celiac

[Guest guest]

Ok, turnips are a dietary source of Mannose. And, this is what I have been

able to find out about Mannose:

Mannose appears to be the foundation of all the essential sugars. Mannose is

formed from glucose in the body and used in the formation of short chain

sugars naturally attached to certain proteins. It is involved in so many

fundamental cell actions that any deficiency of this one saccharide is said

to lead to a host of physical problems. Like xylose and xylitol, mannose has

its own sugar alcohol form known as mannitol.

Called D-mannose, this form is now sold as a remedy for UTIs (urinary tract

infections), but it is capable of so much more. Studies suggest that

D-mannose is ten times more effective than cranberries in dislodging E. coli

bacteria from the bladder wall, improving more than 90% of UTIs in 24-48

hours. However, unlike antibiotics, D-mannose does not kill any bacteria but

simply displaces them, thereby, discouraging them from attaching to the wall

of the bladder. In addition, because the body metabolizes only small amounts

of D-mannose and excretes the rest in the urine, it does not interfere with

blood-sugar regulation, even in diabetics.

Absorption

Mannose is absorbed 8 times more slowly than glucose; and, when ingested, it

is not converted to glycogen or stored in the liver, but rather Mannose goes

directly to the blood stream from the upper gastrointestinal tract.

Don't know if that helps or not. But, here is the web site it came from:

http://www.innvista.com/HEALTH/nutrition/essensug/mannose.htm

Jazz

-- Turnip - is the issue poly- or di-saccharides? Or

something else?

I noticed that Elaine took turnips off the legal list only very late,

and that they were permitted up to that point.

Does anyone know what the issue is with turnips? Is is a monosaccharide

or a disaccharide? Or is there some other reason Elaine made it illegal?

My other option is rutabaga - any information on what the pros and cons

are with rutabaga?

Before anyone jumps all over me, this is for my son whose inflammation

is healed, whose yeast is gone, but who has so many food allergies that

he has very little to eat (only 6 foods, and we must rotate every 2

days). His diet is extremely thin to the point I've been told it's not

medically sustainable. We can't find celeriac anymore, and it was a

staple of his rotation diet, we need something to replace it with. The

only other options are grains, and we don't want to go there.

Thank you,

Suzanne

Tom 3.8, ASD, 6 mos. SCD

[Guest guest]

>

> Well, I don't know about monosaccharide or disaccharide - haven't found

> those on the Internet as of yet. But, I did find a page that lists starches

> in terms of g/100g

>

> And, I know that starches are a primary concern. *shrug*

>

> Maybe this will help someone explain.

>

> http://www.kickas.org/ubbthreads/showthreaded

> php?Cat=0 & Number=146875 & an=0 & page=0

>

> Jazz

>

Thanks Jazz ,

I was unable to access the link.

Elaine has already has done the research.

Our frame of reference is " Breaking the Vicious Cycle. "

It is already established that dissacharide starches are off limits

because they cannot be broken down to be digestible and ferment in the gut

feeding bad

bacteria.

Please use BTVC and the two recommended websites as your point of reference. The

author, Elaine Gottschall was a biologist who specialized in cell science and

the effect of

food on the gut, digestion and the gut brain connection.

New members are asked to study the book and the two websites.

Carol F.

SCD 6 years, celiac

[Guest guest]

>

> Well, I don't know about monosaccharide or disaccharide - haven't found

> those on the Internet as of yet. But, I did find a page that lists starches

> in terms of g/100g

>

> And, I know that starches are a primary concern. *shrug*

>

> Maybe this will help someone explain.

>

The information you are seeking is on Page 3, edition 10 of BTVC

Carol F.

[Guest guest]

Marilyn, this is a very very helpful answer, thank you.

I don't know how to define " healed " with a kid like Tom. Maybe you

can help me. I don't know how healed you need to be to take certain

kinds of risks and try certain kinds of foods. We might need to

think, for instance, about fibrous foods differently from starchy

foods. I'm not really on solid ground with the underlying science on

this, so I hope you can guide me a bit.

Tom was scoped in Oct. '05 and found to have mild gastritis, lymphoid

nodular hyperplasia, ileal inflammation. His disaccharidase enzymes

were normal. He had a positive hemoccult. He was consuming a limited

diet that was restricted by allergies (no gluten, casein, nuts,

seeds, legumes, eggs, fish, shellfish, fruit, many other things like

olives, avocadoes, coconuts). His diet at that time did include

three " grains " - quinoa/amaranth, millet, and buckwheat, and a few

starchy roots - rutabaga, parsnips and turnips. He was allergic to

most other foods. He acquires allergies easily and has never outgrown

an allergy. He is almost 4 and was breastfed til 3.6. His diet has

been allergy-restricted (mom too) since 2 months old, so his food

exposures have always been strictly controlled.

In Feb., we started SCD as well as a strong course of ketoconazole.

He remains on the ketoconazole as well as an extremely limited diet

(due to both SCD and his severe food allergies, he only eats 4 meats

and 8 vegetables and 4 oils, all rotated). He made rapid gut and

cognitive progress. In April his stools became undigested and remain

so, we do not know why nor have we found an enzyme he can tolerate.

In May we did 20 dives of HBOT, mainly for gut healing. By June, his

inflammation was gone (per 2 different lactoferrin tests). A stool

test confirmed the yeast is gone, but he has some opportunistic

bacteria (c. freundii & klebsiella). His hemoccult tests are still

positive. His bifidus counts are low. He has a D-lactate condition

and cannot take any probiotics that contain acidophilus, so instead

we use 2 Klaire probiotics (bifidus and rhamnosus) that are not on

the SCD legal list. I am pretty certain they're not effective enough.

Since June he has also become more allergic in general, with random

hives and more food and environmental reactions.

Since April (when the undigested stools began), Tom started to

backslide cognitively. In June he began a much more severe regression

that has continued. His cognition has now regressed significantly to

back before he started SCD, and we don't know why. I worry about

malnutrition, with such a limited diet, and am seeking to add things

to his diet, such as he's ready to handle.

So, today we know that Tom has no yeast, no inflammation, still is

not able to fully digest his food, is low on good flora, and his

allergies are worsening. We don't know the status of his LNH. His

hemoccult is still positive. His gut is better but his brain is worse.

He needs more foods since he's lost several lately. Our options are

very few: turnips, rutabagas, parsnips, celery. I wonder if we

should even be considering grains, if perhaps he's missing key

nutrients like biotin (he doesn't tolerate any multivitamins). We

would strongly prefer to remain SCD, but not if it means he risks

malnutrition with his allergies.

I appreciate any advice you may have.

Suzanne

>

> >> I noticed that Elaine took turnips off the legal list only very

late,

> and that they were permitted up to that point. Does anyone know

what the

> issue is with turnips? Is is a monosaccharide or a disaccharide? Or

is

> there some other reason Elaine made it illegal? <<

>

>

> Suzanne,

>

> Small, mild turnips were allowed by Dr. Haas, and Elaine did,

indeed,

> include them in the earlier editions. However, there were a number

of

> people who were getting the large turnips, which have a lot more

starch in

> them, and having issues. So Elaine removed them because it was very

> difficult to explain that a turnip isn't necessarilly just any

turnip.

>

> I would compare it to the differences between small baby limas and

the

> bigger, more mature limas, which are likely to have starch in them.

Ditto

> baby new peas vs. mucking great field peas -- just too much starch

in the

> older, more mature vegetable.

>

> Since I started SCD before she pulled turnips, I have tried them.

They make

> a decent mock french fry (although with a stronger flavor) and go

pretty

> well in some casseroles.

>

> However, I strongly recommend against trying to just substitute

turnips for

> potatoes. I found that if I tried to eat them more frequently than

every

> two weeks or so, I would have issues with them.

>

> So my recommendation would be to try them, but add them as you

would any

> food, and pull them at once if you or your son have a reaction to

them.

>

> <g> Rutabagas have never been my bailiwick, before or after SCD.

They're

> also called swedes, and they're VERY fibrous! I would strongly

recommend a

> good bit of healing before tackling these!

>

> SInce he's been on SCD for six months, are you able to consider any

> legumes? (I don't remember what he's allergic to.)

>

>

> -- Marilyn (New Orleans, Louisiana, USA)

> Undiagnosed IBS 25 Years, SCD Five Years

> Darn Good SCD Cook

> No Human Children

> Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

>