Guest guest Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 Our toddler has been on SCD for 14 months now, and appears to be going through another major die off with tan, watery stools. He won't eat the intro foods like chicken soup. Does anyone know how many die offs are normal in a given period like this? Can this be another die off? I thought it would be over after a year. Thank you! , Mom to Broderick, ASD, SCD 14 months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 - hi patti yes, I do need some help. Thank you. I did the intro diet with him last year - he was able to tolerate soft foods and a spoon back then, but not now. His stools were good after the initial die off. For the last several months they have been very very loose, and wet. I asked the pediatrician and of course she said it's nothing to worry about. He has gained two pounds since august (which is incredible). This recent bout of stools the color has changed from dark to this very light tan, which is reminiscent of the initial die off. I thought one year of the regular die off were all that was going to happen. his behavior is pretty good. of course he has his uncooperative moments which can last for a couple of days, but overall he is pretty good. No stimming. for his foods - in the morning he has a " power sippy " which consists of the goat yogurt (dripped)and usually a banana and maybe another fruit plus honey and some of his vitamins. All goes in the blender. Around 10:30 or so he will eat (though not always) some SCD peanut butter brownies. Lunch around 12:00 - could be a crispy omlette with prosciutto or sausage (homemade) or sometimes leftover dinner. He doesn't always eat lunch. around 3:30 - a thick sippy after his nap, with a little honey only. dinner at 5:00 or 5:30 - could be a meat loaf (chicken or beef) that is sliced and quick pan fried and covered with crushed pork rinds. Sometimes dipped in homemade mayo or ketchup. He likes fried things like zucchini or eggplant. Generally most things needs to be fried for him to consider eating it. Vitamins: 1/2 packet coromega, 1/2 scd multi vitamin, 1/4 vitamin K (4 x a week), 1 L acidophilus, I was giving him florastor also but I stopped it just to see if that was the problem. I also was giving him zinc and magnesium on a rotating schedule but have also stopped to see if any improvement. I do not see any diaper rash as in a usual die off. He is lethargic but can rally in the playground. Let me know if you need anymore information. Perhaps he's had a virus for months??? But then, wouldn't we all have it at home? We are fairly healthy right now. thanks for your help and time. I am stumped. -- In pecanbread , " Patti " wrote: > > , > > So you did not ever do the intro diet with him? I assume that's what you meant. > > It could be that occasional die-off periods would continue on longer for him because of never having done that intro. > > How is he doing otherwise? Stools are usually good? Behavior, etc? > > Do you need more help in terms of figuring things out? We could take a look at everything he's eating, supps, etc. Let me know. > > Patti > > die off? > > > Our toddler has been on SCD for 14 months now, and appears to be going > through another major die off with tan, watery stools. He won't eat > the intro foods like chicken soup. > > Does anyone know how many die offs are normal in a given period like > this? Can this be another die off? I thought it would be over after a > year. > > Thank you! > > , Mom to Broderick, ASD, SCD 14 months > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 , I have to run out the door in just a few minutes but need to ask..... Did you start ANY of the supplements he's taking right now just before these bouts with looser stools? When did you start using pork rinds? I would recommend pulling those out IMMEDIATELY. We have seen other kids on the list in the past do very poorly with these. I know it makes a good coating for the meat.... but I see that as a GIANT red flag. I would also pull the peanut butter.... and use some other nut butter in it's place to make the brownies. ALSO.... the vitamin K (depending on the form) can start dissolving oxalate crystals... which can then send oxalic acid into the gut, causing looser stools for SURE. I would have to double check to look at your other supplements and see if those are okay. Depends on the form of magnesium..... some can cause looser stools. I'd need to know how long he's been taking the current one and if he was okay on it for a long time already. Patti Re: die off? - hi patti yes, I do need some help. Thank you. I did the intro diet with him last year - he was able to tolerate soft foods and a spoon back then, but not now. His stools were good after the initial die off. For the last several months they have been very very loose, and wet. I asked the pediatrician and of course she said it's nothing to worry about. He has gained two pounds since august (which is incredible). This recent bout of stools the color has changed from dark to this very light tan, which is reminiscent of the initial die off. I thought one year of the regular die off were all that was going to happen. his behavior is pretty good. of course he has his uncooperative moments which can last for a couple of days, but overall he is pretty good. No stimming. for his foods - in the morning he has a " power sippy " which consists of the goat yogurt (dripped)and usually a banana and maybe another fruit plus honey and some of his vitamins. All goes in the blender. Around 10:30 or so he will eat (though not always) some SCD peanut butter brownies. Lunch around 12:00 - could be a crispy omlette with prosciutto or sausage (homemade) or sometimes leftover dinner. He doesn't always eat lunch. around 3:30 - a thick sippy after his nap, with a little honey only. dinner at 5:00 or 5:30 - could be a meat loaf (chicken or beef) that is sliced and quick pan fried and covered with crushed pork rinds. Sometimes dipped in homemade mayo or ketchup. He likes fried things like zucchini or eggplant. Generally most things needs to be fried for him to consider eating it. Vitamins: 1/2 packet coromega, 1/2 scd multi vitamin, 1/4 vitamin K (4 x a week), 1 L acidophilus, I was giving him florastor also but I stopped it just to see if that was the problem. I also was giving him zinc and magnesium on a rotating schedule but have also stopped to see if any improvement. I do not see any diaper rash as in a usual die off. He is lethargic but can rally in the playground. Let me know if you need anymore information. Perhaps he's had a virus for months??? But then, wouldn't we all have it at home? We are fairly healthy right now. thanks for your help and time. I am stumped. Recent Activity a.. 20New Members Visit Your Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 --PATTI the stools have been loose for SO long, it's hard to remember - but within the last 2 months the only new supplements added were the acidophilos and K. The K is from GNC, it doesn't say anything else about it on the label. He only gets 1/4 tablet. I had pulled the magnesium about 2 weeks ago. it is kirkman's magnesium glycinate. 1/2 pill. Previously his behavior improved with the additonal magnesium, but so far so good. he's been using pork rinds for about 10 months. I have pulled them as you suggested, and also the PB brownies, his two favorite things! anything else you can think of? LInda - In pecanbread , " Patti " wrote: > > , > > > I have to run out the door in just a few minutes but need to ask..... > > Did you start ANY of the supplements he's taking right now just before these bouts with looser stools? > > When did you start using pork rinds? I would recommend pulling those out IMMEDIATELY. We have seen other kids on the list in the past do very poorly with these. I know it makes a good coating for the meat.... but I see that as a GIANT red flag. > > I would also pull the peanut butter.... and use some other nut butter in it's place to make the brownies. > > ALSO.... the vitamin K (depending on the form) can start dissolving oxalate crystals... which can then send oxalic acid into the gut, causing looser stools for SURE. > > I would have to double check to look at your other supplements and see if those are okay. Depends on the form of magnesium..... some can cause looser stools. I'd need to know how long he's been taking the current one and if he was okay on it for a long time already. > > > Patti > > Re: die off? > > > - > hi patti > > yes, I do need some help. Thank you. I did the intro diet with him > last year - he was able to tolerate soft foods and a spoon back > then, but not now. > > His stools were good after the initial die off. For the last > several months they have been very very loose, and wet. I asked the > pediatrician and of course she said it's nothing to worry about. He > has gained two pounds since august (which is incredible). > > This recent bout of stools the color has changed from dark to this > very light tan, which is reminiscent of the initial die off. I > thought one year of the regular die off were all that was going to > happen. > > his behavior is pretty good. of course he has his uncooperative > moments which can last for a couple of days, but overall he is > pretty good. No stimming. > > for his foods - in the morning he has a " power sippy " which consists > of the goat yogurt (dripped)and usually a banana and maybe another > fruit plus honey and some of his vitamins. All goes in the blender. > > Around 10:30 or so he will eat (though not always) some SCD peanut > butter brownies. > > Lunch around 12:00 - could be a crispy omlette with prosciutto or > sausage (homemade) or sometimes leftover dinner. He doesn't always > eat lunch. > > around 3:30 - a thick sippy after his nap, with a little honey only. > > dinner at 5:00 or 5:30 - could be a meat loaf (chicken or beef) that > is sliced and quick pan fried and covered with crushed pork rinds. > Sometimes dipped in homemade mayo or ketchup. He likes fried things > like zucchini or eggplant. Generally most things needs to be fried > for him to consider eating it. > > Vitamins: 1/2 packet coromega, 1/2 scd multi vitamin, 1/4 vitamin K > (4 x a week), 1 L acidophilus, I was giving him florastor also but I > stopped it just to see if that was the problem. I also was giving > him zinc and magnesium on a rotating schedule but have also stopped > to see if any improvement. > > I do not see any diaper rash as in a usual die off. He is lethargic > but can rally in the playground. > > Let me know if you need anymore information. Perhaps he's had a > virus for months??? But then, wouldn't we all have it at home? We > are fairly healthy right now. > > thanks for your help and time. I am stumped. > > > > > Recent Activity > a.. 20New Members > Visit Your Group > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 , <<within the last 2 months the only new supplements added were the acidophilos and K. >> What brand is the acidophilus? You are sure it's legal? If it's Kirkman, it's fine. <<The K is from GNC, it doesn't say anything else about it on the label. He only gets 1/4 tablet.>> You're kidding..... it doesn't say which FORM of vitamin K it is?? K1? K2? or? The one I use is K2 (menatetrenone). Yours should say which form it is... not just " K " . How many milligrams are in that quarter tablet. If you're not using K2, it might not have the oxalate crystal dissolving power, so that may not be creating a problem. Anyway, the thing with Vitamin K is, what we're finding out on the K list anyway, that you really need to have both the A & D coming in to balance it and help it to manage calcium. I have had to back WAY down on the dosage of K2 for Katera, until I can get the CLO I want and get her A and D up where they need to be. You may need to pull the K out until this diarrhea is resolved. Are you using a CLO? I just see the Coromega fish oil. By the way, I personally would not use this particular fish oil. I just clipped this from their site: <<Coromega's exclusive production process transforms the pharmaceutical grade fish oil into a creamy, delicious pudding-like emulsion. We've made the experience of taking a fish oil supplement a pure pleasure by absolutely eliminating any fishy aftertaste. And, by adding a delicious orange flavor. >> I honestly don't know what they use for their " natural orange flavor " . It didn't say on their website. I know it also has stevia in it, which is not SCD legal. Sorry bout that. I would go with the Nordic Naturals with the orange essence. <<I had pulled the magnesium about 2 weeks ago. it is kirkman's magnesium glycinate.>> Glycinate should not cause loose stools. Citrate or oxide would. As long as there are no other illegals in this as fillers, I would go ahead and put it back. <<he's been using pork rinds for about 10 months. I have pulled them as you suggested, and also the PB brownies, his two favorite things!>> Yeah, I am really sorry about the pork rinds.... once in a while we hear that someone is using them, having been told " by someone " that they are SCD legal. BUT, we have NEVER declared them legal here..... so I don't know why someone is saying that. We just know that, despite the fact that they may not technically have anything illegal in them, we have seen kids do VERY poorly with these. I'm thinking of one kid who was eating them by the bag.... and I know you're not doing that, but still... I would pull them and try a different way of prepping his meat. Just make the peanut butter brownies with almond butter.... or ANY other nut butter. Pecan would be good.... and they turn out almost like chocolate brownies.... dark brown and yummy. It's just that peanuts are actually a legume.... and until someone is really doing pretty well gut wise, we like to see people pull peanut butter if there's problems. Macadamia butter is spendy.... but OH they turn out gooooood! <<anything else you can think of?>> Florastor.... is s.boulardii, which is a legal strain of probiotic, effective against clostridia, if you think that's an issue...... BUT Florastor, that particular brand name, has some lactose in it. If you think the s.boulardii was helpful, maybe you can find one that does not contain that? I don't know..... hopefully someone else can recommend a legal one. Your " SCD multi vitamin " .... is that Freeda? Patti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 HI Patti the acidophilus is from kirman's - lactobacillus. the K is from GNC, full pill is 100 mcg so 1/4 is 25 mcg. He only gets it a few times a week. the fine print says " K as phytonadione " the multi is from Freeda, only 1/2 pill. I used to give him CLO. I stopped because it is from the liver which has a lot of vitamin A. That, together with the multi created a toxic level of A - according to the nutritionist - so I switched over to coromega. that was back in the summer. I will order some nordic naturals, and just use the coromega for myself. The DAN doctor (I don't use him anymore) said to add the florastor. I felt he wasn't as up on the SCD diet as he claimed to be. Where can I get the proper K, if that one is not good? where can I get the Nordic Naturals? so, in summation you are saying to pull peanut butter, coromega, K, pork rinds, and possibly florastor - correct? Yesterday the poop was incredibly bad - explosive and burning him. Is it possible that this particular incident could be die off? Or does it stop after a year? I am waiting for today's poop - I HOPE it's better. mom to broderick, ASD, SCD 14 months -- In pecanbread , " Patti " wrote: > > , > > <<within the last 2 months the only new supplements added were the > acidophilos and K. >> > > What brand is the acidophilus? You are sure it's legal? If it's Kirkman, it's fine. > > <<The K is from GNC, it doesn't say anything else > about it on the label. He only gets 1/4 tablet.>> > > You're kidding..... it doesn't say which FORM of vitamin K it is?? K1? K2? or? The one I use is K2 (menatetrenone). Yours should say which form it is... not just " K " . How many milligrams are in that quarter tablet. If you're not using K2, it might not have the oxalate crystal dissolving power, so that may not be creating a problem. > > Anyway, the thing with Vitamin K is, what we're finding out on the K list anyway, that you really need to have both the A & D coming in to balance it and help it to manage calcium. I have had to back WAY down on the dosage of K2 for Katera, until I can get the CLO I want and get her A and D up where they need to be. You may need to pull the K out until this diarrhea is resolved. > > Are you using a CLO? I just see the Coromega fish oil. > > By the way, I personally would not use this particular fish oil. I just clipped this from their site: > > <<Coromega's exclusive production process transforms the pharmaceutical grade fish oil into a creamy, delicious pudding-like emulsion. We've made the experience of taking a fish oil supplement a pure pleasure by absolutely eliminating any fishy aftertaste. And, by adding a delicious orange flavor. >> > > > I honestly don't know what they use for their " natural orange flavor " . It didn't say on their website. I know it also has stevia in it, which is not SCD legal. Sorry bout that. I would go with the Nordic Naturals with the orange essence. > > > <<I had pulled the magnesium about 2 weeks ago. it is kirkman's > magnesium glycinate.>> > > Glycinate should not cause loose stools. Citrate or oxide would. As long as there are no other illegals in this as fillers, I would go ahead and put it back. > > > <<he's been using pork rinds for about 10 months. I have pulled them > as you suggested, and also the PB brownies, his two favorite things!>> > > Yeah, I am really sorry about the pork rinds.... once in a while we hear that someone is using them, having been told " by someone " that they are SCD legal. BUT, we have NEVER declared them legal here..... so I don't know why someone is saying that. We just know that, despite the fact that they may not technically have anything illegal in them, we have seen kids do VERY poorly with these. I'm thinking of one kid who was eating them by the bag.... and I know you're not doing that, but still... I would pull them and try a different way of prepping his meat. > > Just make the peanut butter brownies with almond butter.... or ANY other nut butter. Pecan would be good.... and they turn out almost like chocolate brownies.... dark brown and yummy. It's just that peanuts are actually a legume.... and until someone is really doing pretty well gut wise, we like to see people pull peanut butter if there's problems. Macadamia butter is spendy.... but OH they turn out gooooood! > > <<anything else you can think of?>> > > Florastor.... is s.boulardii, which is a legal strain of probiotic, effective against clostridia, if you think that's an issue...... BUT Florastor, that particular brand name, has some lactose in it. If you think the s.boulardii was helpful, maybe you can find one that does not contain that? I don't know..... hopefully someone else can recommend a legal one. > > Your " SCD multi vitamin " .... is that Freeda? > > Patti > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Hi Patti, << Florastor.... is s.boulardii, which is a legal strain of probiotic, effective against clostridia, if you think that's an issue...... BUT Florastor, that particular brand name, has some lactose in it. If you think the s.boulardii was helpful, maybe you can find one that does not contain that? I don't know..... hopefully someone else can recommend a legal one.>> I use Kirkman's Saccharomyces boulardii. It is only S. boulardii in a cellulose capsule, no other ingredients. Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 22yrs mom of Em and Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 , <<HI Patti the acidophilus is from kirman's - lactobacillus.>> That's fine. <<the K is from GNC, full pill is 100 mcg so 1/4 is 25 mcg. He only gets it a few times a week. the fine print says " K as phytonadione " >> OK.... that one is actually Vitamin K1.... and it's a very low dose, so not likely to work on dissolving oxalate crystals. It's the K2 that seems to work for that, and we use much larger doses. Doesn't seem like the one you're using would cause problems with his gut then. <<the multi is from Freeda, only 1/2 pill.>> Good. <<I used to give him CLO. I stopped because it is from the liver which has a lot of vitamin A. That, together with the multi created a toxic level of A - according to the nutritionist - so I switched over to coromega. >> Hmmm..... well, I think there is some differing opionions on the vitamin A. I would go read all the files over at the Vitamin K list... she has info there about vitamin A. And also, there are some good articles at the Green Pasture's website: www.greenpasture.org <<The DAN doctor (I don't use him anymore) said to add the florastor. >> Well, if you got test results back showing that he had clostridia, the s.boulardii would make sense. But, I think you're right.... unfortunately, many of the DAN docs do want to see the kids on SCD, but don't have a complete understanding of what a " little bit " of an illegal in a supplement can do to undermine the diet efforts. <<Where can I get the proper K, if that one is not good?>> I would first go read everything in the files at the vitamin K list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VitaminK/ ... you may have to join to be able to access the files. Then, the one most people are using over there is Thorne Research's Vitamin K2 liquid. But, you need to see the rest of the protocol that she recently updated... to see the recommendations for A & D. They all work synergistically. <<where can I get the Nordic Naturals?>> Many sites carry it. You could Google Nordic Naturals.... or, I have purchased their products from my favorite supp supplier, www.iherb.com (no, I don't get any perks for recommending them.... and I don't work for them.... have just had 100% good experiences with them for years. ) <<so, in summation you are saying to pull peanut butter, coromega, K, pork rinds, and possibly florastor - correct?>> Correct..... except not " possibly " Florastor..... DEFINITELY Florastor. What I was saying was, you may want to continue using s.boulardii for clostridia.... but you need to find one that is legal. Florastor has lactose. <<Yesterday the poop was incredibly bad - explosive and burning him.>> Poor guy! I'm hoping it's better soon, too. I don't know.... it *could* be die-off.... but just get all the traces of illegals out of EVERYTHING and do epsom salts baths. I would add a big handful of baking soda to his bath, too.... to alkalinize. Also, you might want to try adding some fresh lemon juice to his drink or over his food. This helps to alkalinize the system. Patti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 I'll just throw this in about Vitamin A since I noticed a reference to it in this post. Newer members probably have never seen the post where I stated that I have a genetic, degenereative eye disease, and am blind. I can tell you that it has been recommended to my parents(as a child) and then myself(as an adult) to take incredibly massive amounts of Vitamin A to help delay the detirioration of my condition. I'll look back through my medical records to find dosage recommendations if anyone is interested, but I just wanted to say that you have got to be taking a humungous amount of Vitamin A to be concerned about it being dangerous. I know that it is a fat soluable vitamin, but it's not as dangerous as people think. I'm not a doctor, so I can't say that this is medical advice. I can just say that those with serious eye conditions are often prescribed enormous amounts of Vit A by their ophthomologists as treatment. Meleah Re: Re: die off? , <<HI Patti the acidophilus is from kirman's - lactobacillus.>> That's fine. <<the K is from GNC, full pill is 100 mcg so 1/4 is 25 mcg. He only gets it a few times a week. the fine print says " K as phytonadione " >> OK.... that one is actually Vitamin K1.... and it's a very low dose, so not likely to work on dissolving oxalate crystals. It's the K2 that seems to work for that, and we use much larger doses. Doesn't seem like the one you're using would cause problems with his gut then. <<the multi is from Freeda, only 1/2 pill.>> Good. <<I used to give him CLO. I stopped because it is from the liver which has a lot of vitamin A. That, together with the multi created a toxic level of A - according to the nutritionist - so I switched over to coromega. >> Hmmm..... well, I think there is some differing opionions on the vitamin A. I would go read all the files over at the Vitamin K list... she has info there about vitamin A. And also, there are some good articles at the Green Pasture's website: www.greenpasture.org <<The DAN doctor (I don't use him anymore) said to add the florastor. >> Well, if you got test results back showing that he had clostridia, the s.boulardii would make sense. But, I think you're right.... unfortunately, many of the DAN docs do want to see the kids on SCD, but don't have a complete understanding of what a " little bit " of an illegal in a supplement can do to undermine the diet efforts. <<Where can I get the proper K, if that one is not good?>> I would first go read everything in the files at the vitamin K list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VitaminK/ ... you may have to join to be able to access the files. Then, the one most people are using over there is Thorne Research's Vitamin K2 liquid. But, you need to see the rest of the protocol that she recently updated... to see the recommendations for A & D. They all work synergistically. <<where can I get the Nordic Naturals?>> Many sites carry it. You could Google Nordic Naturals.... or, I have purchased their products from my favorite supp supplier, www.iherb.com (no, I don't get any perks for recommending them.... and I don't work for them.... have just had 100% good experiences with them for years. ) <<so, in summation you are saying to pull peanut butter, coromega, K, pork rinds, and possibly florastor - correct?>> Correct..... except not " possibly " Florastor..... DEFINITELY Florastor. What I was saying was, you may want to continue using s.boulardii for clostridia.... but you need to find one that is legal. Florastor has lactose. <<Yesterday the poop was incredibly bad - explosive and burning him.>> Poor guy! I'm hoping it's better soon, too. I don't know.... it *could* be die-off.... but just get all the traces of illegals out of EVERYTHING and do epsom salts baths. I would add a big handful of baking soda to his bath, too.... to alkalinize. Also, you might want to try adding some fresh lemon juice to his drink or over his food. This helps to alkalinize the system. Patti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Meleah, I know it's not SCD related, but my son whom we are treating with SCD is also blind. He has Norrie Disease, which often goes along with autistic behaviors. Changing his diet has worked really well in helping to control his autistic features. Re: Re: die off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 thank you. There's so much to think about with this diet. I'll have to sit down and consider all the info. > > I'll just throw this in about Vitamin A since I noticed a reference to it in this post. Newer members probably have never seen the post where I stated that I have a genetic, degenereative eye disease, and am blind. I can tell you that it has been recommended to my parents(as a child) and then myself(as an adult) to take incredibly massive amounts of Vitamin A to help delay the detirioration of my condition. I'll look back through my medical records to find dosage recommendations if anyone is interested, but I just wanted to say that you have got to be taking a humungous amount of Vitamin A to be concerned about it being dangerous. I know that it is a fat soluable vitamin, but it's not as dangerous as people think. I'm not a doctor, so I can't say that this is medical advice. I can just say that those with serious eye conditions are often prescribed enormous amounts of Vit A by their ophthomologists as treatment. > Meleah > > Re: Re: die off? > > > , > > <<HI Patti > the acidophilus is from kirman's - lactobacillus.>> > > That's fine. > > <<the K is from GNC, full pill is 100 mcg so 1/4 is 25 mcg. He only > gets it a few times a week. the fine print says " K as phytonadione " >> > > OK.... that one is actually Vitamin K1.... and it's a very low dose, so not likely to work on dissolving oxalate crystals. It's the K2 that seems to work for that, and we use much larger doses. Doesn't seem like the one you're using would cause problems with his gut then. > > <<the multi is from Freeda, only 1/2 pill.>> > > Good. > > <<I used to give him CLO. I stopped because it is from the liver > which has a lot of vitamin A. That, together with the multi created > a toxic level of A - according to the nutritionist - so I switched > over to coromega. >> > > Hmmm..... well, I think there is some differing opionions on the vitamin A. I would go read all the files over at the Vitamin K list... she has info there about vitamin A. And also, there are some good articles at the Green Pasture's website: www.greenpasture.org > > <<The DAN doctor (I don't use him anymore) said to add the florastor. >> > > Well, if you got test results back showing that he had clostridia, the s.boulardii would make sense. But, I think you're right.... unfortunately, many of the DAN docs do want to see the kids on SCD, but don't have a complete understanding of what a " little bit " of an illegal in a supplement can do to undermine the diet efforts. > > <<Where can I get the proper K, if that one is not good?>> > > I would first go read everything in the files at the vitamin K list: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VitaminK/ ... you may have to join to be able to access the files. > > Then, the one most people are using over there is Thorne Research's Vitamin K2 liquid. But, you need to see the rest of the protocol that she recently updated... to see the recommendations for A & D. They all work synergistically. > > <<where can I get the Nordic Naturals?>> > Many sites carry it. You could Google Nordic Naturals.... or, I have purchased their products from my favorite supp supplier, www.iherb.com > > (no, I don't get any perks for recommending them.... and I don't work for them.... have just had 100% good experiences with them for years. ) > > <<so, in summation you are saying to pull peanut butter, coromega, K, > pork rinds, and possibly florastor - correct?>> > > Correct..... except not " possibly " Florastor..... DEFINITELY Florastor. What I was saying was, you may want to continue using s.boulardii for clostridia.... but you need to find one that is legal. Florastor has lactose. > > <<Yesterday the poop was incredibly bad - explosive and burning him.>> > Poor guy! I'm hoping it's better soon, too. I don't know.... it *could* be die-off.... but just get all the traces of illegals out of EVERYTHING and do epsom salts baths. I would add a big handful of baking soda to his bath, too.... to alkalinize. > > Also, you might want to try adding some fresh lemon juice to his drink or over his food. This helps to alkalinize the system. > > Patti > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 -Thanks for all the info Patti. Should I swith over to K2 then? Does K1 do anything at all? I actually don't know if he has clostridia. I don't think so, he only had one OAT done and that was a while ago. The DAN didn't mention it specifically. I'll do the baths as you suggested. today's poop was still on the tan color side, but there was more solidity to it. So it's a step in the right direction. thanks for everything and I'll let you know what happens. Mom to Broderick, ASD, SCD 14 months. -- In pecanbread , " Patti " wrote: > > , > > <<HI Patti > the acidophilus is from kirman's - lactobacillus.>> > > That's fine. > > <<the K is from GNC, full pill is 100 mcg so 1/4 is 25 mcg. He only > gets it a few times a week. the fine print says " K as phytonadione " >> > > OK.... that one is actually Vitamin K1.... and it's a very low dose, so not likely to work on dissolving oxalate crystals. It's the K2 that seems to work for that, and we use much larger doses. Doesn't seem like the one you're using would cause problems with his gut then. > > <<the multi is from Freeda, only 1/2 pill.>> > > Good. > > > <<I used to give him CLO. I stopped because it is from the liver > which has a lot of vitamin A. That, together with the multi created > a toxic level of A - according to the nutritionist - so I switched > over to coromega. >> > > Hmmm..... well, I think there is some differing opionions on the vitamin A. I would go read all the files over at the Vitamin K list... she has info there about vitamin A. And also, there are some good articles at the Green Pasture's website: www.greenpasture.org > > <<The DAN doctor (I don't use him anymore) said to add the florastor. >> > > Well, if you got test results back showing that he had clostridia, the s.boulardii would make sense. But, I think you're right.... unfortunately, many of the DAN docs do want to see the kids on SCD, but don't have a complete understanding of what a " little bit " of an illegal in a supplement can do to undermine the diet efforts. > > <<Where can I get the proper K, if that one is not good?>> > > I would first go read everything in the files at the vitamin K list: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VitaminK/ ... you may have to join to be able to access the files. > > Then, the one most people are using over there is Thorne Research's Vitamin K2 liquid. But, you need to see the rest of the protocol that she recently updated... to see the recommendations for A & D. They all work synergistically. > > <<where can I get the Nordic Naturals?>> > Many sites carry it. You could Google Nordic Naturals.... or, I have purchased their products from my favorite supp supplier, www.iherb.com > > (no, I don't get any perks for recommending them.... and I don't work for them.... have just had 100% good experiences with them for years. ) > > <<so, in summation you are saying to pull peanut butter, coromega, K, > pork rinds, and possibly florastor - correct?>> > > Correct..... except not " possibly " Florastor..... DEFINITELY Florastor. What I was saying was, you may want to continue using s.boulardii for clostridia.... but you need to find one that is legal. Florastor has lactose. > > <<Yesterday the poop was incredibly bad - explosive and burning him.>> > Poor guy! I'm hoping it's better soon, too. I don't know.... it *could* be die-off.... but just get all the traces of illegals out of EVERYTHING and do epsom salts baths. I would add a big handful of baking soda to his bath, too.... to alkalinize. > > Also, you might want to try adding some fresh lemon juice to his drink or over his food. This helps to alkalinize the system. > > Patti > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 <<Should I swith over to K2 then? Does K1 do anything at all?>> Don't switch anything until you've read up over at the K list.... and really understand what you're getting into. Starting the K protocol can cause acidic diarrhea.... and those of us sticking to strict SCD cannot use the probiotic she recommends that helps with the oxalic acid, because it has illegals in it. So.... we just have to go REALLY slow. Most important, get the A and D levels up first.... before starting. I doubt the K1 helps in terms of dissolving oxalate crystals, if that's why you were giving it. The body needs to convert it to K2 .... well, explains all that in her literature. So, go read up before you do any switching. You may want to drop the K1 until you're ready to start that. <<I actually don't know if he has clostridia. I don't think so, he only had one OAT done and that was a while ago. The DAN didn't mention it specifically.>> Then, I don't see any reason to be taking s.boulardii. That should save you some money. <<Ktoday's poop was still on the tan color side, but there was more solidity to it. So it's a step in the right direction. >> Hey, that's good! We'll take any positives! Patti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 I did not tolerate nut flour breads until about 6 months on SCD and then barely. At 3 weeks I only tolerated fruits and veggies well cooked and pureed. I tolerated fresh pineapple after about 9 months and it took me a good year for apples and salads. Last summer was tough because I could not enjoy any produce, but thankfully this year I can. Hang in there. PJ > > Hey kt! It is very difficult to discern between die-off and just plain 'ole D. I've been struggling with this since the beginning of the diet. You are definitely still at an early enough stage of the diet (3 weeks, right?) that it could be die-off... > However, from looking at what you are eating, you are definitely jumping into some pretty advanced foods! Everyone is different so you may be one of the lucky ones who can advance to raw veggies sooner. But... 3 weeks does seem very early to be adding the raw foods and almond flour products. > It seems like you realize this, but are just looking for some outside confirmation > As far as D in the morning- that is very normal. That is when our bowels get active and I think a lot of people (including myself) have the toughest time. For example, I still have days when I will have gone 4 times by 10am and then I will only go 1 or 2 times the whole rest of the day! > I just started taking S. boulardii and I'll tell you what- it'll kick your butt! I don't think I knew what real die-off was until I actually took (too much) of it. I started with 1 pill and felt so feverish and achy by the next day. So I have only been taking 1/4 pill now. But I'll tell you what, I think in the 4 days I've been taking it I've really noticed a difference! > Sorry to ramble... in short, I encourage you to try the S.B. (but go slow!) and try to go back to some more stage 1-2 foods. I hope you'll be feeling better soon! > -Joanna > SCD 9/2009, Crohn's 1992, 22.5mg Prednisone > > > >I'm wondering if this D is from die off (whatever that is) or just me going to fast with foods that are too hard to digest. I decided to start over with the chicken/carrot soup regime, but still was having D, so now I'm cutting out the eggs to see if that helps. They were my major item in the morning along with the yogurt and dripped yogurt. I'm feeling pretty hungry and am losing some weight. I've also ordered some S. Boulardii, since it has been mentioned on this list as helpful for D. Can anyone give me some insight? This is the hardest time of year to NOT be eating fresh raw veges! > > kt > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Hi, I was one of the lucky ones in that I always was able to handle salads and raw fruits (except the ones I am allergic to). Not on bad days, of course, and when I did Intro two months after starting, of course I cooked and pureed all veggies and kept my fruit to applesauce and bananas for a few days. But I had delusions of grandeur about getting almond flour. I figured that since I was OK with nut butter (almond and pecan), the flour should be OK. Wrong! It's a year now and I'm stiff pretty iffy about flours. What I want to suggest is this. You might be OK with some of these more advanced things that you are used to if you try them later in the day. This works for me. My gut still tends to be more active earlier in the day and I still can't eat anything but fruit until 11AM. By mid-afternoon and dinner time I can have a lot more stuff. Good luck, it takes a bit to sort things out and of course it's a constantly sliding scale, too, just to make it more interesting. Hi Joanna, I realize according the the pecanbread " stages " I've jumped way ahead, but before I started the SCD, I ate all this raw food along with grains, beans, etc. and didn't ever have this kind of D. Did have a lot more gas, but I'm thinking that was the grains and beans. At any rate, I guess I thought I could handle it, but maybe not. :-(( Also, my nutritionist does muscle testing to see what foods and other items make me weak or strong and the almond bread tested ok. Guess I'll just have to go with my " gut " instinct here. I know I've read that Elaine didn't really follow the " stages " idea because it is pretty limiting and everyone can accept things differently. I guess I'll just go slower and test a few different items, but keep them well cooked for now. I had to go buy a vegetable peeler - I have never peeled anything! I am thankful my D isn't that bad and I have no cramping or nausea, just getting rather bored with all this well cooked food. I did read about your experience with the S.Boulardii and was planning to be VERY cautious with that! Thanks for your ideas and encouragement! kt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 I'm glad today was better! Reducing yogurt may still be worth a shot- supposedly our yogurt is much stronger than store-bought... A more seasoned SCDer could explain. I think it has to do with the extra bacteria we get from fermenting for 24 hours. And you are correct- " die-off " refers to the bad bacteria ( or yeast) literally dying off in your body!!! -Joanna > > > > > > Hi Joanna, I realize according the the pecanbread " stages " I've > jumped > > > way ahead, but before I started the SCD, I ate all this raw food > along > > > with grains, beans, etc. and didn't ever have this kind of D. Did > have > > > a lot more gas, but I'm thinking that was the grains and beans. At > any > > > rate, I guess I thought I could handle it, but maybe not. :-(( > Also, my > > > nutritionist does muscle testing to see what foods and other items > make > > > me weak or strong and the almond bread tested ok. Guess I'll just > have > > > to go with my " gut " instinct here. I know I've read that Elaine > didn't > > > really follow the " stages " idea because it is pretty limiting and > > > everyone can accept things differently. I guess I'll just go slower > and > > > test a few different items, but keep them well cooked for now. I > had to > > > go buy a vegetable peeler - I have never peeled anything! > > > I am thankful my D isn't that bad and I have no cramping or nausea, > just > > > getting rather bored with all this well cooked food. I did read > about > > > your experience with the S.Boulardii and was planning to be VERY > > > cautious with that! > > > Thanks for your ideas and encouragement! > > > kt > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Hi, I will try that - adding more variety later in the day. It seems like I'm so famished in the morning, though. If I cut back on yogurt and eggs, that doesn't leave me with much - guess I'll need to look into some breakfast alternatives. kt > > Hi, > I was one of the lucky ones in that I always was able to handle > salads and raw fruits (except the ones I am allergic to). Not on bad > days, of course, and when I did Intro two months after starting, of > course I cooked and pureed all veggies and kept my fruit to > applesauce and bananas for a few days. But I had delusions of > grandeur about getting almond flour. I figured that since I was OK > with nut butter (almond and pecan), the flour should be OK. > Wrong! It's a year now and I'm stiff pretty iffy about flours. > > What I want to suggest is this. You might be OK with some of these > more advanced things that you are used to if you try them later in > the day. This works for me. My gut still tends to be more active > earlier in the day and I still can't eat anything but fruit until > 11AM. By mid-afternoon and dinner time I can have a lot more stuff. > > Good luck, it takes a bit to sort things out and of course it's a > constantly sliding scale, too, just to make it more interesting. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Hey KT, I also jumped into some advanced foods pretty quick, when I was about 2 weeks in. I am now at 9 weeks, and I am finding which ones I can handle, and which ones I need to wait on. I find cooking cobblers like blueberry, apple or cherry is a great way to take advantage of fresh fruit in season, and my gut absolutely loves blueberries, thank goodness! I grind up the almonds in my food processor to make my own nut flour/nut butter, then blend it with a bit of honey & butter and bake over the fruits. The one fruit that still gets me like no other are tomatoes, I will probably have to wait a year for those darn things... and never had a problem with them pre-scd. I also did fine with the carrot cake recipe from the BTVC book pretty early too. I find that making my own almond flour by grinding up whole almonds or blanched slivered almonds tastes a lot better and feels a lot better than the spendier stuff I bought at first. I don't plan on every buying premade almond flour again, just didn't sit right with me. I usually fill up in the morning with a frozen banana/blueberry/yogurt smoothie(you can always cut back the yogurt to a small amount depending on how you feel). Then dig into a bowl of cobbler. I have realized though that I have to stay away from most raw fruits for right now, including watermelon - which I thought would have been harmless, but was just the opposite! And I used to have no problems pre-scd with watermelon - but that one is a real natural laxative for this gal now. good luck! SCD 9 weeks BTVC-SCD , " kt " wrote: > > Hi, I will try that - adding more variety later in the day. It seems like I'm so famished in the morning, though. If I cut back on yogurt and eggs, that doesn't leave me with much - guess I'll need to look into some breakfast alternatives. > > kt > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2010 Report Share Posted August 7, 2010 Hi kt,Avocado-banana smoothies are pretty great in the morning. Very-filling! Good luck :)EllenTo: BTVC-SCD Sent: Sat, August 7, 2010 12:42:22 AMSubject: Re: Die off? Hi, I will try that - adding more variety later in the day. It seems like I'm so famished in the morning, though. If I cut back on yogurt and eggs, that doesn't leave me with much - guess I'll need to look into some breakfast alternatives. kt > > Hi, > I was one of the lucky ones in that I always was able to handle > salads and raw fruits (except the ones I am allergic to). Not on bad > days, of course, and when I did Intro two months after starting, of > course I cooked and pureed all veggies and kept my fruit to > applesauce and bananas for a few days. But I had delusions of > grandeur about getting almond flour. I figured that since I was OK > with nut butter (almond and pecan), the flour should be OK. > Wrong! It's a year now and I'm stiff pretty iffy about flours. > > What I want to suggest is this. You might be OK with some of these > more advanced things that you are used to if you try them later in > the day. This works for me. My gut still tends to be more active > earlier in the day and I still can't eat anything but fruit until > 11AM. By mid-afternoon and dinner time I can have a lot more stuff. > > Good luck, it takes a bit to sort things out and of course it's a > constantly sliding scale, too, just to make it more interesting. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2010 Report Share Posted August 7, 2010 Hi ,Your cobblers sound delicious! Tomorrow I'm going huckleberry picking, so instead of blueberries, I'll try the hucks. Do you grind your blanched almonds for almond flour in your food processor? I've made pecan nut butter in the food processor, so do you just not grind as long to get flour vs. nut butter? Also, do you use cooked berries in your smoothies or raw?Thanks for your ideas!kt> >> > Hi, I will try that - adding more variety later in the day. It seems like I'm so famished in the morning, though. If I cut back on yogurt and eggs, that doesn't leave me with much - guess I'll need to look into some breakfast alternatives.> > > > kt> > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2010 Report Share Posted August 7, 2010 I am so surprised to find watermelon at the end of the list of foods to introduce.. I am such a picky eater and find it hard to find sides to go with my meats.. I have been useing watermelon as my desert/side ever since I started SCD.. and have had no problems at all..Like I thought it was mostly water and would be harmless..Do I continue to enjoy? or back off some? UC September 2009 SCD July 2010 To: BTVC-SCD Sent: Sat, August 7, 2010 12:05:12 AMSubject: Re: Die off? Hey KT,Like you, I jumped into some advanced foods pretty quick, when I was about 2 weeks in. I am now at 9 weeks, and I am finding which ones I can handle, and which ones I need to wait on. I find cooking cobblers like blueberry, apple or cherry is a great way to take advantage of fresh fruit in season, and my gut absolutely loves blueberries, thank goodness! I grind up the almonds in my food processor to make my own nut flour/nut butter, then blend it with a bit of honey & butter and bake over the fruits. The one fruit that still gets me like no other are tomatoes, I will probably have to wait a year for those darn things... and never had a problem with them pre-scd. I also did fine with the carrot cake recipe from the BTVC book pretty early too. I find that making my own almond flour by grinding up whole almonds or blanched silver almonds tastes a lot better and feels a lot better than the spendier stuff I bought at first. I don't plan on every buying premade almond flour again, just didn't sit right with me. I usually fill up in the morning with a frozen banana/blueberry/yogurt smoothie (you can always cut back the yogurt to a small amount depending on how you feel). Then dig into a bowl of cobbler.I have realized though that I have to stay away from most raw fruits for right now, including watermelon - which I thought would have been harmless, but was just the opposite!good luck!SCD 9 weeks> >> > Hi,> > I was one of the lucky ones in that I always was able to handle > > salads and raw fruits (except the ones I am allergic to). Not on bad > > days, of course, and when I did Intro two months after starting, of > > course I cooked and pureed all veggies and kept my fruit to > > applesauce and bananas for a few days. But I had delusions of > > grandeur about getting almond flour. I figured that since I was OK > > with nut butter (almond and pecan), the flour should be OK. > > Wrong! It's a year now and I'm stiff pretty iffy about flours.> > > > What I want to suggest is this. You might be OK with some of these > > more advanced things that you are used to if you try them later in > > the day. This works for me. My gut still tends to be more active > > earlier in the day and I still can't eat anything but fruit until > > 11AM. By mid-afternoon and dinner time I can have a lot more stuff.> > > > Good luck, it takes a bit to sort things out and of course it's a > > constantly sliding scale, too, just to make it more interesting.> > > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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