Re: SCD - bad BM - long

August 26, 2006

Hi Patti,

Thanks very much for the reply. The message I sent was quite confusing. I will

write it again in a different way,

Day 1 Food: chicken soup with chick wings, carrot puree, 1 cooked pear and a bit

of cooked honeydew

BM: twice, first time ok, second time consistency good but carrot

color.

Day 2 Food: pork mince, carrot puree, homemade pear juice

BM: once, formed but carrot color.

Day 3 Food: chichen soup, carrot puree, green bean puree and 1 cooked tomato

(peeled and seeded), prawns

BM: none

Day 4 Food: lamb mince, green beans, carrot puree, 1 ladyfinger banana, 2 cooked

pears

BM: very very loose and orange color.

All the meats are free range and cooked at home. All the vegetables are organic.

I will also answer your questions here,

>>When you wrote a few days ago about this situation, I was immediately

suspicious of the prawns and

>>I think I responded to you in a message to that effect. But here, it sounds

like he did not >>have the prawns on the day of the " worst BM " ?

He had prawns the day before the " worst BM " .

>>Some people have trouble digesting carrots.... and since you describe the

" worst BM " as being " very loose and orange color " ....

>>and carrots were eaten that day, I'm thinking the carrots *could* be a

possibility, too.

If carrots can't be used even in the intro diet, what food can I use to replace

it? He seems not interested in any meat now. He only asks for fruit (banana,

pear).

>> Are you using epsom salts baths or lotion? That could possibly help him feel

better and help

>> with unloading the toxins from his system.

Yes. He has it everyday, but we don't really see any differences before and

after baths.

>> 1) I will ask again, why did you introduce prawns so early in the diet? Are

you absolutely SURE they contained no additives?

>> Are you absolutely sure that prawns are something he would ordinarily

tolerate just fine? It's not something we would typically

>> see anyone use at the very early stages of the diet, though I understand that

you are wanting a wider variety, I'm just not exactly

>> sure it's advisable so early on. Since you seem like you intuitively suspect

the prawns, I just wanted to let you know that I do, too.

I didn't really know if seafood was ok and just assumed it was OK. How silly

was I! I will stop giving him any seafood until later.

Can I give him salmon if I am sure it is organic? In which stage, can I

introduce fish to him?

>> 2) Was the avacado very soft and ripe? Does he ordinarily tolerate avacado?

It was. We don't know if he can b/c he seems not tolerant anything. Should I

chanllenge him and give him avocado to find out?

>> 7) One of his supps that I have a question about is the <<DRN vitamin/mineral

basic supplement>>. Are you using the hypoallergenic version?

Yes.

>> 8) Which enzymes are you using? Are we absolutely sure they are legal.... and

tolerated?

They are Kirkman's enzyme complete with isogest.

>> 9) Nystatin.... How long has he been on Nystatin? If you started this at the

same time as the diet, it may be really hard to figure

>> out whether die-off is happening from that or from the diet. I also am

concerned because quite a few other parents here have

>> seen yeast rebound BIG-time as soon as Nystatin is discontinued. Have you

tried other natural anti-fungals without success?

>> I do worry that Nystatin can possibly get in the way of moving forward on

healing (my personal opinion only).

We started it earlier than the diet. He only had marginal yeast overgrowth. Our

DAN! doctor just wanted us to finish the whole course(4 weeks).

We will just stop it from today.

>>**For SOME KIDS, we've observed that it is sometimes necessary to pretty much

stop all supplements and Rx antifungals, at

>> least for a very short time, until the diet is well-established... so that

you can eliminate some of the variables.**

We will stop all the supplements from today. How long do we need to wait to

restart?

I think I also need advice on how to introduce a new food. Should I introduce

one new food small amount first day, then increase it the following day? How

many days

later can I introduce another new food?

Sorry for this long email. I am really desperate right now to find the answer

here. What foods are safe to use in the intro diet? My son is on dairy-free SCD

and he can't have eggs, nuts. I don't know what I can feed him. What meat is

safe to use at the beginning?

Thanks lot,

SCD 06/06

Theiss 3yrs, PDD-NOS

Marcus, 9 months

August 26, 2006

,

This really doesn't have anything to do with scd, but I thought I'd share

it. My son, iel, is also 3yrs., and we're doing scd for him. We had

allergy tests run in the spring. When we were discussing what foods to test

for with the dr., I commented that we didn't need to test for any fish or

shellfish because iel doesn't eat it(doesn't like it). He made the

comment of " That's fine. Kids this young really still shouldn't be eating

seafood. " I didn't ask him when he felt it was an appropriate age to

introduce seafood because my kids just don't care for it, but I thought you

might like to know what he said. Also, mellons are general not introduced

so early in the diet. I was told by one veteran scder that many kids have

problems with the mellons, so probably should pull the honeydew. It also

looks like carrots are a problem after reading the day by day food journal.

You could do the green beans, cooked spinach, and some purred butternut or

acorn squash. If he won't eat it, just mix it into something. In the cery

beginning of scd, we weren't doing dairy, and I would mix it into ground

beef. Then, I'd either pan fry or grill hamburgers, or bake for meatloaf.

You can also do the chicken. I hope this is helpful.

Meleah scd 05/06

iel 3yrs., asd

Ethan 5yrs., Mark 1yr.

Re: SCD - bad BM - long

> Hi Patti,

>

> Thanks very much for the reply. The message I sent was quite confusing. I

> will write it again in a different way,

> Day 1 Food: chicken soup with chick wings, carrot puree, 1 cooked pear and

> a bit of cooked honeydew

> BM: twice, first time ok, second time consistency good but carrot

> color.

>

> Day 2 Food: pork mince, carrot puree, homemade pear juice

> BM: once, formed but carrot color.

>

> Day 3 Food: chichen soup, carrot puree, green bean puree and 1 cooked

> tomato (peeled and seeded), prawns

> BM: none

>

> Day 4 Food: lamb mince, green beans, carrot puree, 1 ladyfinger banana, 2

> cooked pears

> BM: very very loose and orange color.

>

> All the meats are free range and cooked at home. All the vegetables are

> organic. I will also answer your questions here,

>

>>>When you wrote a few days ago about this situation, I was immediately

>>>suspicious of the prawns and

>>>I think I responded to you in a message to that effect. But here, it

>>>sounds like he did not >>have the prawns on the day of the " worst BM " ?

> He had prawns the day before the " worst BM " .

>

>>>Some people have trouble digesting carrots.... and since you describe the

>>> " worst BM " as being " very loose and orange color " ....

>>>and carrots were eaten that day, I'm thinking the carrots *could* be a

>>>possibility, too.

> If carrots can't be used even in the intro diet, what food can I use to

> replace it? He seems not interested in any meat now. He only asks for

> fruit (banana, pear).

>

>>> Are you using epsom salts baths or lotion? That could possibly help him

>>> feel better and help

>>> with unloading the toxins from his system.

> Yes. He has it everyday, but we don't really see any differences before

> and after baths.

>

>>> 1) I will ask again, why did you introduce prawns so early in the diet?

>>> Are you absolutely SURE they contained no additives?

>>> Are you absolutely sure that prawns are something he would ordinarily

>>> tolerate just fine? It's not something we would typically

>>> see anyone use at the very early stages of the diet, though I understand

>>> that you are wanting a wider variety, I'm just not exactly

>>> sure it's advisable so early on. Since you seem like you intuitively

>>> suspect the prawns, I just wanted to let you know that I do, too.

> I didn't really know if seafood was ok and just assumed it was OK. How

> silly was I! I will stop giving him any seafood until later.

> Can I give him salmon if I am sure it is organic? In which stage, can I

> introduce fish to him?

>

>>> 2) Was the avacado very soft and ripe? Does he ordinarily tolerate

>>> avacado?

> It was. We don't know if he can b/c he seems not tolerant anything. Should

> I chanllenge him and give him avocado to find out?

>

>>> 7) One of his supps that I have a question about is the <<DRN

>>> vitamin/mineral basic supplement>>. Are you using the hypoallergenic

>>> version?

> Yes.

>

>>> 8) Which enzymes are you using? Are we absolutely sure they are

>>> legal.... and tolerated?

> They are Kirkman's enzyme complete with isogest.

>

>>> 9) Nystatin.... How long has he been on Nystatin? If you started this at

>>> the same time as the diet, it may be really hard to figure

>>> out whether die-off is happening from that or from the diet. I also am

>>> concerned because quite a few other parents here have

>>> seen yeast rebound BIG-time as soon as Nystatin is discontinued. Have

>>> you tried other natural anti-fungals without success?

>>> I do worry that Nystatin can possibly get in the way of moving forward

>>> on healing (my personal opinion only).

> We started it earlier than the diet. He only had marginal yeast

> overgrowth. Our DAN! doctor just wanted us to finish the whole course(4

> weeks).

> We will just stop it from today.

>

>>>**For SOME KIDS, we've observed that it is sometimes necessary to pretty

>>>much stop all supplements and Rx antifungals, at

>>> least for a very short time, until the diet is well-established... so

>>> that you can eliminate some of the variables.**

> We will stop all the supplements from today. How long do we need to wait

> to restart?

>

> I think I also need advice on how to introduce a new food. Should I

> introduce one new food small amount first day, then increase it the

> following day? How many days

> later can I introduce another new food?

>

> Sorry for this long email. I am really desperate right now to find the

> answer here. What foods are safe to use in the intro diet? My son is on

> dairy-free SCD

> and he can't have eggs, nuts. I don't know what I can feed him. What meat

> is safe to use at the beginning?

>

> Thanks lot,

>

> SCD 06/06

> Theiss 3yrs, PDD-NOS

> Marcus, 9 months

>

August 26, 2006

,

Don't worry... we will keep working on some of these things.

First... As I look at your day-by-day list of foods again, and now in more

detail, I'm confused because you said you put him " back on the intro diet " ....

but the first two days you list foods that are not part of intro. Like... pears,

pear juice, pork and honeydew. Just thought I'd point that out.

I don't want you to get discouraged... I sort of feel, personally, like you

should just move forward now, but you need to be aware of exactly what intro is,

and is not.

Two days of intro would have been enough... but you didn't really do intro as

the book describes it. It's up to you if you really want to go back and re-do

that. If you have any doubt about what is allowed on intro, go back and re-read

that section in the book. There is a section on intro at the www.pecanbread.com

site, too... under " Food Preparation " .

Moving on...

It does seem like maybe the carrot puree is kind of just passing on through him.

I don't think that necessarily means he isn't " tolerating " it, but maybe just

not exactly able to digest it well right now. It might seem odd.. or

contradictory in a way, but it's really pretty common for kids (and adults)

beginning SCD to have trouble digesting carrot. For those that do, it might be

best to pull it out for right now... as it can contribute to mushy, looser

stools.

If I were you, and this is only based on what I've experienced with my own child

primarily, I would next try peeled zucchini...I see you are already using that

so if I'm repeating stuff you already know, just ignore me. Remove the center

seeds unless the zuke is a really small, young one... in which case it probably

wouldn't matter that much.

Next veggie I might try is butternut squash. I really like butternut, compared

to any other squash, b/c it is very fine-textured and not strong flavored. I

hope he can tolerate it. Of course try a small amount at first and I would maybe

wait a day before giving more so you can see what the " outcome " is (pun

intended:)).

On the prawns... I honestly don't know if there is a problem in general with

introducing them early on... but in your son's case, it does seem like he had

the really bad BM following them, so I don't know. I guess I would just wait for

now.

I think the salmon might be a good idea. Fish is allowed on the intro diet, so

it's okay early. Oh... and from an SCD standpoint, you don't have to use only

organic meat, veggies or fruits.... but of course, organic is great if you can

get it. The MORE important thing to really make sure of is NO ADDITIVES... no

tenderizing agents, no seasoning, no marinade, etc, etc. I know you know that.

Preservatives are not necessarily illegal... but you may want to avoid.

I still have a question about the " ladyfinger " bananas. I don't know what they

are.... are those the tiny ones? Or just the ordinary, common, regular banana?

The little baby bananas are not legal, I know. From what I just found on Google,

it looks like baby bananas and ladyfinger bananas are one and the same... and

they are too sweet/starchy. You need to stop using those... and use only regular

bananas... nice and ripe, of course.

I notice that on day 4, when he had two cooked pears, his BM was " very, very

loose " . Not sure that was from the pears, or if he had the BM after the pears or

not... maybe two whole pears was too much for him just yet? Not sure. Pears

*should* be fine right after intro... but everyone is different. Best to be

cautious about quantity until you're really sure... but things are so tenuous at

first, with so many changes going on in his gut. I would not pull pears

completely out, just maybe not two whole ones in one day just yet.

The fact that he's ONLY asking for the sweet stuff... the pears and banana,

*might* just be because he is craving ANYthing sweet right now, while going

through a bit of die-off. I am not all that concerned about that... but you do

need to change to the other kind of bananas. He may just feel a little unwell

(again, die-off possibly) and the sweet foods are comforting and settle his

tummy better.

On the avacado... it's hard to say. He has had loose BMs off and on the whole

time, so not sure on that. It *should* be okay, if they are nice and ripe. But,

you be the judge if you think is a problem. Maybe wait a week and see if we can

get everything to settle down, then introduce a small amount again.

On the supplements... this is just what I would do IF I WERE IN YOUR SHOES... I

am just a mom, trying to figure things out, too. I think I would stop

everything for a week. I am concerned that when you stop the Nystatin now, you

could see yeast bounce up.... so I think it's REALLY important that one of the

first things you start is a LEGAL acidphilus supp. Acidophilus only for now.

That will help take up the space that the yeast would love to move into.... and

help keep it down.

After that, (let's see how things go, first)... maybe put them back

slllooowwwwly, one at a time, with maybe one week between adding the next.

I hope I sort of answered your question about how to introduce a food... give a

small amount, then wait a day and see the outcome. Keep a food journal... record

everything you see from BMs to behavior. You must already be doing that, since

you have such details about what he's eaten.

Just common sense otherwise... never introduce TWO new things at once or you

won't know what's what. It's okay if everything is pretty plain and repetitive

for a few weeks. He will be fine. You can start varying things as you are sure

they don't cause an upset.

Another question about his supplements... I thought you had answered this, but

now I can't find it... so I'll ask again. Was he already using ALL of those...

<<Homeopathic remedy in drops (no sugar), DRN vitamin/mineral basic supplement

from Kirkman, Nystatin, enzymes, L-glutamine, calcium power from Kirkman (all

SCD legal).>>

.....before starting SCD? Or did you start ANY of these at or about the same

time? What is the homeopathic for? Just curious.

Patti

August 27, 2006

Hi Meleah,

Thanks for the advice. I even thought melons were quite safe. I have a feeling

that Theiss can't eat too much fruit.

Did you give iel fruit as snacks in the very beginning of scd? I like your

ideas how to use ground beef and chicken.

I will let you know how Theiss goes in a week. Thanks again,