(No subject)

[Guest guest]

Hello All,

I am one of those post-ops who is still

subscribed to LT's site. I signed up in the beginning

to see what she was stating, now I guess it is more

like gawking at an accident scene. Sorry! LOL.

Anyway, I do not feel that I am a Dr. R Moonie or

whatever terms uses to 'disqualify' our

statements regarding out opinions about the MGB.

I for one researched all aspects of WLS and

determined the MGB was the safest, and best procedure

for me. After reading even more and researching, I

still feel that way! I had my MGB on 3/13/00 and have

lost over 80 lbs. I no longer have severe acid

reflux, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, achy

joints. I don't vomit unless I really, really

overstuff myself - rare. And I don't do Citrucel -

but promise to start again. I can eat anything I want

- unfortunately!! LOL. I have never dumped and I

belong (at times) to the orange group.

What I am pasting here is an email from someone

who has been emailing quite a bit to the 'truth' list.

But, she went to some of the sites Dr. R. listed for

us to view and here are her comments to LT:

****************************************************

Message: 23

Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 09:50:51 -0700

From: " Sue Widemark "

Subject: Re: A reply from Dr. R - fact finding

I hope I don't make EVERYONE on this list hate me but

I went to some of the links below and the explanations

seemed a valid rebuttal. I am wondering if the

surgeons website may in part, be because Dr R is very

honest about the MGB and all WLS being risky and the

surgeons are worried that knowing the honest facts

about WLS will deter prospectives in general. Because

I have not noticed them taking a website out against

known quacks in the field (I won't mention any names

here but one real butcher everyone knows about comes

to

mind, who is STILL performing procedures). In my

research, it's been my experience that most surgeons

sites I've seen, really understate the dangers

involved with WLS and what risks they state, are given

are in thick medical terminology that prospectives

won't bother to read. That's one thing I really

liked about Dr R's site that he was so honest about

the risks. I linked his 'risks' page to my site - it

agrees with everything else I've read in the

medical literature in general about WLS.

He states that he has a real concern about the dangers

of ulcer and strictures with the RNY and that's why he

does the Billroth II. I have written to him inquiring

for cites of studies showing these dangers are greater

in RNY's.

In fairness to him, he must believe in the Billroth II

in order to have chosen it. It is to his advantage to

do the procedure with the least side effects and

the least bad problems because bad problems tend to

turn into nasty law suits. I knew an anesthesiologist

who was present at a death which was proven to be

'his fault' But in fact, it was a rare thing which

happens and wasn't really his fault at all. A young

handsome man with blond hair (I can still see his

face), his career was over in a flash. I had him in

my fiddle class and the man could literally not work

as a doctor from ONE very nasty lawsuit. All

physicians have heard these horror stories so it's to

their advantage to try and do - what they feel is -

the best procedure.

Usually physicians tend to have a 'professional

courtesy' towards other physicians yet the MGB dot.com

website goes in opposition to this. And one

might say that this is because these physicians are so

upset that Dr R is doing this horrible procedure. I

would like to believe that but I have seen

'professional courtesy' to real quacks like 70 year

old abortionists who have, out of proven negligence,

killed patients, for example (one gent comes to mind

who ate his lunch while a patient bled out in another

room and told the nurses to not bother him - he

eventually lost his license but in such a way that he

still can practice in other states - he's over 70

years old). I have also seen the medical community

totally slander and character assassinate those

whom they think are stealing business. In fact, this

is happening on a wide scale at present, with nurse

practitioners and it's not pretty and it's not

fair and many of us feel that it's not because of

anything else but that some folks are seeing that NPs

are delivering a holistic type of empirical medical

care which patients love and which has a high rate of

efficacy as far as the healing process.

Operating with an extremely limited medical knowledge

(and it ARE limited... although I did study thoroughly

in medical literature the procedures I feature in my

site including in medical A & P books and more and

have researched this well over a year rather

intensely), it seems to me that:

1. Dr R. is performing a procedure which is NOT any

MORE dangerous or risky than other types of RNY. It's

just that the dangers of RNYs are generally not

detailed on websites.

2. Dr R. may be performing something safer than an RNY

because it seems, in part, a procedure still done to

non weight loss oriented patients and from my

own experience, people of size are still the most

abused segment of this population - thus receiving

surgery that non fat people receive may be an

advantage.

3. Dr R's procedure may APPEAR more dangerous than

other types of WLS because Dr R is so open about the

risks.

I am asking these questions openly. There is a lot at

stake. First, individuals who have received this

procedure may NOT be worse off than those receiving

other types of WLS. WLS is risky and those going into

it should be aware of that - this lack of awareness on

the part of pre ops has long been a concern of mine.

Second, this upset about the MGB might be fueled at

least in part by something other than 'professional

concern' - not to repeat but to emphasize, I have seen

it happen before in the medical community.

It is so difficult for us, laypersons to figure out

exactly what is happening when talking of highly

complex things. Just think if I launched a discussion

of intricate software development concepts here how

lost everyone would be? These scientific things

involve so much learning - all medical providers go to

intense schooling for many years and equally intense

practicum.

When I began studying the GI tract via medical books,

my son told me " You will not even begin to scratch the

surface of understanding this " . He was SO right.

That is why he IS the advisor for my Health site and

why I run everything by him. The best we can hope for

is a surgeon who is honest enough to tell us the full

story and that we can figure out enough to ask the

'right questions' before we have a procedure done. I

to this date, am not convinced that Dr R is NOT

trustworthy. Yes he has made some tactical errors in

dealing with this situation but that just shows he's

not a politician. However, people hire Dr R for his

medical ability and not his political correctness (or

lack thereof). Need I remind of certain politicians

who ARE very charming and politically correct but

totally corrupt?

To date, the item of most concern here, seems the risk

for cancer in 20 years or more. But from my research

it appears that ALL WLS post ops have this risk and if

not for esophageal cancer then for colon cancer or

other. Some post ops have gotten cancer the year

after surgery and their doctors have told them

it was probably partially due to the WLS. But if you

think of it, we all are at some risk. I with GERD am

also in risk of esophageal cancer. My husband with a

vasectomy is at high risk for prostate cancer. People

who have taken birth control pills or had an abortion

are at high risk for breast cancer. Seems most folks

walking the face of the earth are at risk for SOME

kind of cancer.

There are steps which can be taken to prevent cancer

or significantly cut down the risk - many veggies have

actual anti cancer chemicals IN THEM. WLS post ops can

go rich on the supplements to help prevent cancer. A

regular exercise program (3 times a week, aerobic

exercise or more) can cut the risks of cancer

by 40 percent. Not smoking, not consuming alcohol,

eating a good nutritious diet, lowering the fat

consumption (which most WLS patients do). All these

things cut down the risks.

I am throwing this out for honest discussion and

rebuttal. I too have experienced dreadful character

assassination (not by surgeons though but by very

zealous pre ops and post ops who for some reason do

not wish prospectives to know about the dangers and

risks or about alternatives to surgery). So please

heap no more abuse on me. If you can answer my

concerns here preferably with sites and facts, I would

be very interested.

I don't think surgery is for everyone and laying out

the facts including the risks before AND the

alternatives is a good step towards making sure that

those who seek the surgical path are making a full

INFORMED consent decision.

Dr R still provides the most information about this on

his website and I have not seen any of the info he

provides which is not reliable according to all my

other research.

I look forward to your comments to any of my points

but please no flames or insults, thanks in advance,

Sue

*******************************************************

There you have it. Some one who actually went to the

MGB site and read what we have been reading during our

research process. I think Sue was very open and

honest and expressed my thoughts when I was

researching WLS. NO OTHER Doctor put out anywhere near

the information about his procedure, required his

patients to go through many, many steps before

approving them, or maintains a database, website,

patient list of contacts, etc...but Dr. R.

He is still tops in my book!

Godinet

MGB 3/13/00

287 lbs/205 lbs

Oklahoma

__________________________________________________