ASD Setback, Continued

[Guest guest]

My son began the SCD in late July, and we saw great results for the

first 5-6 weeks. His eye contact improved, he seemed happier, and

he was much more engaged. His poops were also more solid, and less

in terms of size and frequency. Now, we are settling back to pre-

SCD patterns. He has had D for a while now (three weeks), and the

stimming is through the roof. We visited his DAN doctor and she

felt like he has yeast issues as he was very laughy and SILLY during

our appointment. However, we haven't found yeast in OAT tests or

comprehensive stool analyses. To be on the safe side, she

prescribed 100mg Nizerol, which is supposed to be much like

Dyflucan, two weeks ago. He is also taking 2 lactobacillus

acidophillus capsules (Kirkman lab) per day. I was thinking that

this behavior problem may be due to die off, but I'm beginning to

wonder. It seems that the SCD coupled with Nizerol and probiotics

would clear things up fast. Am I expecting too much too soon?

To mix things up, my son's regular pediatrican advised that the

magnesium sulfate he is taking could be causing the D as the amount

he takes (1/2 tsp/day) can have a laxative effect. UGH... I called

my DAN doctor and she recommended we try magnesium sulfate in a

cream form, also by Kirkman. Anyone had experience with this?

And, I decided to experiment with goat milk yogurt. We've been

doing the dairy free form of the diet (with the exception of ghee)

until now, and in fact he as been GFCF since January 05.

Unfortunately, I bought a Salton yogurt maker. I didn't bother to

check the temp as I assumed it would be fine, but recent posts tell

me otherwise. Do I need to throw that batch out? And, considering

all the D, was it unwise for me to introduce that in the first place?

Also, I gave him baked (30 minutes) pineapple yesterday for the

first time and we saw it again in the potty. Does that mean we need

to hold off of that fruit?

I want to pull my hair out. Thanks for reading this long post, and

for any replys.

, Mom to Jack, 5 years, ASD, SCD 9 weeks

[Guest guest]

Well, ....

You have a number of things going on here. First, it could be that he's having

die-off just from the diet itself, that would have occurred anyway. But, you

also have the new medication in the mix now.... and the acidophilus supplement.

But, you say the negative stuff had started before he began taking either of

these?

Five or six weeks into SCD is definitely too soon to expect everything to just

steadily get better and better, with zero negatives. It's very common to see ups

and downs... and it's quite common for die-off to last for many weeks.

I'm not clear on when you started the mag sulphate taken orally. I have only

heard of taking it orally when needing to treat severe constipation.... never on

a regular basis. Most parents here just use epsom salts in bath or lotion form.

I would definitely switch that form of magnesium.... glycinate, maybe? Anyway,

just stop giving him that oral dose immediately.... and I'm sure you can take

your time about finding just the right one to replace it... just make up some

epsom salts lotion (it's easy to make, you don't have to buy it.... lemme know

and I'll find the link).

I don't know what to tell you on the yogurt. Were the symptoms.... the

behavioral stuff and the diarrhea.... happening already when you started yogurt?

I don't know about whether the yogurt maker itself is okay. I know others have

had bad luck with that one lately... but I'll admit to never having used

anything but a Yogourmet. I think, given everything that's going on, it would

not be fair to trial the yogurt just now. Give some thought to either testing

the temp on the current maker... or getting a different one. Toss the yogurt, or

feed it to other family members that are not on SCD. Better to eliminate some

variables.

The pineapple..... obviously he didn't digest it. The reason? I am not sure. It

may be that it needed to be cooked longer.... or even that he didn't chew it

well enough... but at any rate, you know he didn't digest it so let's just pull

that for now and don't let that be something you pull your hair out over.

Pineapple is pretty fibrous.... my daughter has been SCD since May and I don't

think she would be ready for pineapple yet. Each kid is different, though.

What is he eating now? Tell me exactly what he's eating and how it's

prepared.... also what supplements, if any, besides the l.acidophilus and the

Nizerol Rx.

Patti

ASD Setback, Continued

My son began the SCD in late July, and we saw great results for the

first 5-6 weeks. His eye contact improved, he seemed happier, and

he was much more engaged. His poops were also more solid, and less

in terms of size and frequency. Now, we are settling back to pre-

SCD patterns. He has had D for a while now (three weeks), and the

stimming is through the roof. We visited his DAN doctor and she

felt like he has yeast issues as he was very laughy and SILLY during

our appointment. However, we haven't found yeast in OAT tests or

comprehensive stool analyses. To be on the safe side, she

prescribed 100mg Nizerol, which is supposed to be much like

Dyflucan, two weeks ago. He is also taking 2 lactobacillus

acidophillus capsules (Kirkman lab) per day. I was thinking that

this behavior problem may be due to die off, but I'm beginning to

wonder. It seems that the SCD coupled with Nizerol and probiotics

would clear things up fast. Am I expecting too much too soon?

To mix things up, my son's regular pediatrican advised that the

magnesium sulfate he is taking could be causing the D as the amount

he takes (1/2 tsp/day) can have a laxative effect. UGH... I called

my DAN doctor and she recommended we try magnesium sulfate in a

cream form, also by Kirkman. Anyone had experience with this?

And, I decided to experiment with goat milk yogurt. We've been

doing the dairy free form of the diet (with the exception of ghee)

until now, and in fact he as been GFCF since January 05.

Unfortunately, I bought a Salton yogurt maker. I didn't bother to

check the temp as I assumed it would be fine, but recent posts tell

me otherwise. Do I need to throw that batch out? And, considering

all the D, was it unwise for me to introduce that in the first place?

Also, I gave him baked (30 minutes) pineapple yesterday for the

first time and we saw it again in the potty. Does that mean we need

to hold off of that fruit?

I want to pull my hair out. Thanks for reading this long post, and

for any replys.

, Mom to Jack, 5 years, ASD, SCD 9 weeks

[Guest guest]

Wow Patti, thank you for taking the time to respond so thoroughly.

I'll respond to each of your thoughts:

No, the negative stuff started some time after we began the

probiotics and the magnesium sulfate (began magnesium sulfate 7/25,

began probio 8/9, bad behavior began 8/27. FYI, we began SCD 7/17.

The powder form of magnes. sulfate was suggested by our son's DAN

doctor to " calm him " ; when I asked about the D she suggested the

cream form. He has NEVER been constipated. Prior to SCD he pooped

5-6x/day, and the size was large in my opinion.

As for my expectations, he did so well the first 5-6 weeks that

everyone was thinking he could pull out of this. Ours is an unusual

situation in that the ASD behavior didn't begin until he was 2.5 - 3

years old, and even then it was very subtle. Things really began to

digress, however, at just over 4 years old. Whereas last summer he

stimmed by running around the house a few times per day and made

unusual sounds occassionally, now the stimming behavior is ever

developing/changing and it's pretty constant. All this despite

regular therapy. I can say, however, that Jack developed an itchy

bottom at 2.5, and that is also when his social skills deteriorated

at bit, and his language development plateaued. On a positive note,

I can say that since SCD, his bottom itches remarkably less. YEAH!!

So, everyone - therapists, teachers, doctors - was very excited

about his turnaround because his deterioration has been very

perplexing. The return to pre-SCD behavior is, obviously,

discouraging for all of us.

Yes, he had D prior to the yogurt. His poops were well-formed for

the first 2 weeks on the diet, and they've been all over the map

since. My thinking when I introduced the goat yogurt was that the

healing benefits of the yogurt may help with the D. Also, in the

back of my mind I remembered that during the first week on the diet

I gave him diary in the way of cheddar cheese and cow's milk yogurt

(homemade), and his poops were well-formed. I stopped the cheese

and yogurt at week two because I thought taking a conservative

approach my be better since he had been GF/CF for 7 months prior.

But the goat's milk is more like breast milk, so I thought it was

worth a try...

I'll definitely eat the pineapple myself.

Jack's menu:

Breakfast:

2 Banana pancakes (1 mashed banana and 1 egg, cooked with ghee)

1 Boiled egg with salt and pepper

Welch's Grape juice and water

Snack:

Squash pudding (AKA pumpkin pie filling-recipe - butternut squash,

honey (Kroger brand - pure clover honey), safflower oil, cinnamon,

nutmeg, cloves and eggs)

Cooked apples (apples, water, cinnamon, honey)

Grape juice and water

Lunch:

Italian sausage (ground pork and beef, fresh garlic, salt, pepper,

crushed red pepper, crushed fennel seed, thyme, gound bay leaves,

nutmeg)

or

Ground beef patty (I sautee spinach and mushrooms in olive oil, then

mix with ground beef, and then grill)

Green beans (cooked in water and salt)

Banana or cooked apples

Tropicana Original OJ with water

Snack:

Almond butter brownie (Almond butter (MaraNatha Brand - Natural,

creamy and raw), honey, baking soda, egg)

Ice cream (Eggs, honey, safflower oil, vanilla (Frontier brand),

cinnamon

Tropicana Original OJ with water

Dinner:

Grilled chicken or chicken pancake

Squash pudding

Banana or cooked apples

Goat milk yogurt mixed with honey, vanilla and cinnamon.

Tropicana Original OJ with water

As for meds and supps:

In morning:

1/4 tsp Kirkman calcium powder

1/4 tsp Kirkman magnesium sulfate power

1 capsule Kirkman lactobacillus probio (3 billion lactos)

2 Kirkman Complete Spectrum Multi-vitamin capsules

3 different homeopathic remedies which I think are okay

100 mg Nizerol

(all Kirkman products are SCD approved, so they say)

In the evening:

1/4 tsp Kirkman calcium powder

1/4 tsp Kirkman magnesium sulfate power

1 capsule Kirkman lactobacillus probio (3 billion lactos)

2 Kirkman Complete Spectrum Multi-vitamin capsules

1/2 tsp Kirkman Cod Liver Oil, unflavored

3 different homeopathic remedies which I think are okay

10:00pm

Naltrexone Cream

You are very kind to read and analyze all of this, Patti. I hope

someday I can help someone as much as you are helping me.

Thank you,

Mom to Jack, ASD, 5 yrs old, 9 weeks SCD

>

> Well, ....

>

> You have a number of things going on here. First, it could be that

he's having die-off just from the diet itself, that would have

occurred anyway. But, you also have the new medication in the mix

now.... and the acidophilus supplement. But, you say the negative

stuff had started before he began tkking either of these?

>

> Five or six weeks into SCD is definitely too soon to expect

everything to just steadily get better and better, with zero

negatives. It's very common to see ups and downs... and it's quite

common for die-off to last for many weeks.

>

> I'm not clear on when you started the mag sulphate taken orally. I

have only heard of taking it orally when needing to treat severe

constipation.... never on a regular basis. Most parents here just

use epsom salts in bath or lotion form.

>

> I would definitely switch that form of magnesium.... glycinate,

maybe? Anyway, just stop giving him that oral dose immediately....

and I'm sure you can take your time about finding just the right one

to replace it... just make up some epsom salts lotion (it's easy to

make, you don't have to buy it.... lemme know and I'll find the

link).

>

> I don't know what to tell you on the yogurt. Were the symptoms....

the behavioral stuff and the diarrhea.... happening already when you

started yogurt? I don't know about whether the yogurt maker itself

is okay. I know others have had bad luck with that one lately... but

I'll admit to never having used anything but a Yogourmet. I think,

given everything that's going on, it would not be fair to trial the

yogurt just now. Give some thought to either testing the temp on the

current maker... or getting a different one. Toss the yogurt, or

feed it to other family members that are not on SCD. Better to

eliminate some variables.

>

> The pineapple..... obviously he didn't digest it. The reason? I

am not sure. It may be that it needed to be cooked longer.... or

even that he didn't chew it well enough... but at any rate, you know

he didn't digest it so let's just pull that for now and don't let

that be something you pull your hair out over. Pineapple is

pretty fibrous.... my daughter has been SCD since May and I don't

think she would be ready for pineapple yet. Each kid is different,

though.

>

> What is he eating now? Tell me exactly what he's eating and how

it's prepared.... also what supplements, if any, besides the

l.acidophilus and the Nizerol Rx.

>

>

> Patti

>

>

> ASD Setback, Continued

>

>

> My son began the SCD in late July, and we saw great results for

the

> first 5-6 weeks. His eye contact improved, he seemed happier,

and

> he was much more engaged. His poops were also more solid, and

less

> in terms of size and frequency. Now, we are settling back to pre-

> SCD patterns. He has had D for a while now (three weeks), and

the

> stimming is through the roof. We visited his DAN doctor and she

> felt like he has yeast issues as he was very laughy and SILLY

during

> our appointment. However, we haven't found yeast in OAT tests or

> comprehensive stool analyses. To be on the safe side, she

> prescribed 100mg Nizerol, which is supposed to be much like

> Dyflucan, two weeks ago. He is also taking 2 lactobacillus

> acidophillus capsules (Kirkman lab) per day. I was thinking that

> this behavior problem may be due to die off, but I'm beginning

to

> wonder. It seems that the SCD coupled with Nizerol and

probiotics

> would clear things up fast. Am I expecting too much too soon?

>

> To mix things up, my son's regular pediatrican advised that the

> magnesium sulfate he is taking could be causing the D as the

amount

> he takes (1/2 tsp/day) can have a laxative effect. UGH... I

called

> my DAN doctor and she recommended we try magnesium sulfate in a

> cream form, also by Kirkman. Anyone had experience with this?

>

> And, I decided to experiment with goat milk yogurt. We've been

> doing the dairy free form of the diet (with the exception of

ghee)

> until now, and in fact he as been GFCF since January 05.

> Unfortunately, I bought a Salton yogurt maker. I didn't bother

to

> check the temp as I assumed it would be fine, but recent posts

tell

> me otherwise. Do I need to throw that batch out? And,

considering

> all the D, was it unwise for me to introduce that in the first

place?

>

> Also, I gave him baked (30 minutes) pineapple yesterday for the

> first time and we saw it again in the potty. Does that mean we

need

> to hold off of that fruit?

>

> I want to pull my hair out. Thanks for reading this long post,

and

> for any replys.

>

> , Mom to Jack, 5 years, ASD, SCD 9 weeks

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Wow Patti, thank you for taking the time to respond so thoroughly.

> I'll respond to each of your thoughts:

>

jennifer,

I am far from being as expert as patti but what I am seeing are two things:

a ton of supplements

a lot of eggs.

Carol F.

SCD 6 years

[Guest guest]

Oooo, Carol, I hope you are wrong about the eggs. I'd say he eats a

total of 4 eggs per day, including those found in foods like the

pumpkin pie filling (known as squash pudding in my house - he's got

a puddin' thing).

> >

> > Wow Patti, thank you for taking the time to respond so

thoroughly.

> > I'll respond to each of your thoughts:

> >

> jennifer,

> I am far from being as expert as patti but what I am seeing are

two things:

>

> a ton of supplements

> a lot of eggs.

>

> Carol F.

> SCD 6 years

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

>

> Oooo, Carol, I hope you are wrong about the eggs. I'd say he eats a

> total of 4 eggs per day, including those found in foods like the

> pumpkin pie filling (known as squash pudding in my house - he's got

> a puddin' thing).

>

Elaine said that 3-4 eggs/day is fine.

Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 22yrs

mom of and

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi ,

>

> >

> > Oooo, Carol, I hope you are wrong about the eggs. I'd say he eats a

> > total of 4 eggs per day, including those found in foods like the

> > pumpkin pie filling (known as squash pudding in my house - he's got

> > a puddin' thing).

> >

>

> Elaine said that 3-4 eggs/day is fine.

>

> Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 22yrs

> mom of and

>

Did she also say extra Vitamin B was recommended with more eggs?

Carol F.

[Guest guest]

No mention of extra vitamin B mentioned.

> >

> > Hi ,

> >

> > >

> > > Oooo, Carol, I hope you are wrong about the eggs. I'd say he

eats a

> > > total of 4 eggs per day, including those found in foods like

the

> > > pumpkin pie filling (known as squash pudding in my house -

he's got

> > > a puddin' thing).

> > >

> >

> > Elaine said that 3-4 eggs/day is fine.

> >

> > Sheila, SCD Feb. 2001, UC 22yrs

> > mom of and

> >

> Did she also say extra Vitamin B was recommended with more eggs?

>

> Carol F.

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Patti. When we gave him the cow's milk yogurt and cheddar

cheese his behavior was also better (in addition to the well-formed

poops). As you thought, my decision to go dairy free was purely out

of fear. But then I read about the benefits of goat yogurt, and that

it is often more tolerated, so I thought it was worth a try,

especially since we didn't see negative effects with the cow dairy.

Also, I meant to say magnesium citrate, not sulfate. I apologize

for the confusion.

Your advise about too many supplements is well received. I'm going

to give this much thought. And, yes, the Spectrum Complete is hypo-

allergenic.

I'll take the sausage out of the diet.

Also, I'm going to read the article you sent, and pass it along to

Jack's nutritionist ( Dorfman - just awesome) and doctor.

Thanks sooooo much for your help.

> >

> > Well, ....

> >

> > You have a number of things going on here. First, it could be

that

> he's having die-off just from the diet itself, that would have

> occurred anyway. But, you also have the new medication in the

mix

> now.... and the acidophilus supplement. But, you say the

negative

> stuff had started before he began tkking either of these?

> >

> > Five or six weeks into SCD is definitely too soon to expect

> everything to just steadily get better and better, with zero

> negatives. It's very common to see ups and downs... and it's

quite

> common for die-off to last for many weeks.

> >

> > I'm not clear on when you started the mag sulphate taken

orally. I

> have only heard of taking it orally when needing to treat severe

> constipation.... never on a regular basis. Most parents here

just

> use epsom salts in bath or lotion form.

> >

> > I would definitely switch that form of magnesium....

glycinate,

> maybe? Anyway, just stop giving him that oral dose

immediately....

> and I'm sure you can take your time about finding just the right

one

> to replace it... just make up some epsom salts lotion (it's easy

to

> make, you don't have to buy it.... lemme know and I'll find the

> link).

> >

> > I don't know what to tell you on the yogurt. Were the

symptoms....

> the behavioral stuff and the diarrhea.... happening already when

you

> started yogurt? I don't know about whether the yogurt maker

itself

> is okay. I know others have had bad luck with that one lately...

but

> I'll admit to never having used anything but a Yogourmet. I

think,

> given everything that's going on, it would not be fair to trial

the

> yogurt just now. Give some thought to either testing the temp on

the

> current maker... or getting a different one. Toss the yogurt, or

> feed it to other family members that are not on SCD. Better to

> eliminate some variables.

> >

> > The pineapple..... obviously he didn't digest it. The reason?

I

> am not sure. It may be that it needed to be cooked longer.... or

> even that he didn't chew it well enough... but at any rate, you

know

> he didn't digest it so let's just pull that for now and don't

let

> that be something you pull your hair out over. Pineapple is

> pretty fibrous.... my daughter has been SCD since May and I

don't

> think she would be ready for pineapple yet. Each kid is

different,

> though.

> >

> > What is he eating now? Tell me exactly what he's eating and

how

> it's prepared.... also what supplements, if any, besides the

> l.acidophilus and the Nizerol Rx.

> >

> >

> > Patti

> >

> >

> > ASD Setback, Continued

> >

> >

> > My son began the SCD in late July, and we saw great results

for

> the

> > first 5-6 weeks. His eye contact improved, he seemed happier,

> and

> > he was much more engaged. His poops were also more solid, and

> less

> > in terms of size and frequency. Now, we are settling back to

pre-

> > SCD patterns. He has had D for a while now (three weeks), and

> the

> > stimming is through the roof. We visited his DAN doctor and

she

> > felt like he has yeast issues as he was very laughy and SILLY

> during

> > our appointment. However, we haven't found yeast in OAT tests

or

> > comprehensive stool analyses. To be on the safe side, she

> > prescribed 100mg Nizerol, which is supposed to be much like

> > Dyflucan, two weeks ago. He is also taking 2 lactobacillus

> > acidophillus capsules (Kirkman lab) per day. I was thinking

that

> > this behavior problem may be due to die off, but I'm beginning

> to

> > wonder. It seems that the SCD coupled with Nizerol and

> probiotics

> > would clear things up fast. Am I expecting too much too soon?

> >

> > To mix things up, my son's regular pediatrican advised that

the

> > magnesium sulfate he is taking could be causing the D as the

> amount

> > he takes (1/2 tsp/day) can have a laxative effect. UGH... I

> called

> > my DAN doctor and she recommended we try magnesium sulfate in

a

> > cream form, also by Kirkman. Anyone had experience with this?

> >

> > And, I decided to experiment with goat milk yogurt. We've been

> > doing the dairy free form of the diet (with the exception of

> ghee)

> > until now, and in fact he as been GFCF since January 05.

> > Unfortunately, I bought a Salton yogurt maker. I didn't bother

> to

> > check the temp as I assumed it would be fine, but recent posts

> tell

> > me otherwise. Do I need to throw that batch out? And,

> considering

> > all the D, was it unwise for me to introduce that in the first

> place?

> >

> > Also, I gave him baked (30 minutes) pineapple yesterday for

the

> > first time and we saw it again in the potty. Does that mean we

> need

> > to hold off of that fruit?

> >

> > I want to pull my hair out. Thanks for reading this long post,

> and

> > for any replys.

> >

> > , Mom to Jack, 5 years, ASD, SCD 9 weeks

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi guys,

, you said: " When we gave him the cow's milk yogurt and

cheddar cheese his behavior was also better (in addition to the well-

formed poops). As you thought, my decision to go dairy free was

purely out of fear. But then I read about the benefits of goat

yogurt, and that it is often more tolerated, so I thought it was

worth a try, especially since we didn't see negative effects with

the cow dairy. "

I wanted to share that this is what happened ot us too. When die off

hit, I assumed that the symptoms where related to the protiens in

the yogurt and did not yet understand what " die off "

and " carbohydrate intolerance " was all about. Out of fear I took

out the yogurt FAST. WE had success...and this caused a horrible

regression in all of us. I now wish that we had never taken it out.

This transition is not fun for some of us.

After talking much with everyone here, and reading everything that

Elaine left for us to read, I came to the conclusion that it wasn't

the casein at all. How could it be if it is denatured for 24 hours?

It was more likely die off, or carbohydrate intolerance or a little

of both!

We started up the easier to diges goat yogurt again, and started

doing other things for our die off symptoms and carbohydrate

intolerance. Like using Activated charcoal one hour before and one

hour after meals. Epson Salts soaks in the baths. Plus making sure

that we didn't over do the allowed SCD sugars. Some drip the yogurt

so that it takes the galactose out. This helps them. All of this

can help with this transition.

After seven months on the diet, practicing 100%, we can now we use

both he goat and the cow cheeses and yogurt. Some still have to be

careful even after years. So keep this in mind too.

After a person heals for a while practicing SCD 100% they can often

stop doing all of these extra things. Although we have improved

greatly, we have recently discovered that our " carbohydrate

intolerance " and ability to digest things completely, is still a bit

of a problem if we over do it with things like the honey candy, the

dry beans, peanuts and whole nuts.

Elaine said that what we do not digest does harm...we ate peeled and

cooked fruits and vegetables, what seemed forever. Yet, have had

remarkable healing. WE now can eat raw fruits and vegetables with no

ill affect. Yet, are not able yet to digest the harder to digest

foods that well yet. I discovered that our bad gut flora (yeast

symptoms)and some neurological symptoms came back...showing that we

shouldn't be eating this stuff yet. We tried the enzymes, to see if

they would be helpful, but for us they caused set backs too. So we

now choose to simply go by the BTVC book.

So needless to say, even after 7 months, we are still very careful

not to eat things that may FERMENT. We went back to intro for two

days to create another die off and are now back on track. Yeast dies

off rather fast when it is not being fed. Elaine never promised any

of us that this " fix " would occure over night. It can take years

for complete healing. So I figure we have a ways to go still.

Keep in mind that we are all individual, and all a bit different,

but this is our experience and how we had success with the SCDiet.

Untill now, my family has never been healthier and has never acted

so " normal " . We are keepers!

Sincerely, Antoinette and family (celiac, colitis, add, adhd, autism

and more) SCD 2/06 no meds, just vitamins, fish oils and calcium