Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Jack, Good to have you here. How did you feel on the Androgel?? On that level, did you experience less low T side effects (low libido, poor memory/concentration, apathy, energy issues, no noctural erections)??? Shots are definitely an option, per AACE guidelines in our File list here. Oh, what type of tumor did you have?? If you did go back on Androgel, you probably would want to go immediately to 7.5 or 10 mgs. as 400 is too low of a T reading. Seems to me it has been a struggle for awhile. You need to 1.) figure out if you have the right and most aggressive doctor and 2.) determine the best pattern for treatment for YOU as some absorb better than others, some need HCG, other don't, etc. Blessings and keep shooting the questions, Bill > > hey guys I have been here for a while untill last april when my new > then reproductive endo asked me to stop the androgel I was taking at > the time 5g and during all this time my total testosterone has been > in the low 400 sh even at a time was low at 300 and then when I > stoped it went up to 400 by itself so the Doctor assumed and said I > am cured and sent me home and check it after one month sure enough I > did it came back down 284 ng/dL > > > well see for your self.... > Total Testosterone 284 ng/dL range 250 - 1100 ng/dL > FREE TESTOsterone 1.34 ng/dL range 1.1 - 2.8 ng/dL > Testosterone BioAv 38.1 range is 35.0 -155.0 PG/ML > Estradiol <20 range is <56 PG/ML > > > TSH.............0.83 range is 0.49-4.67 uiu/ML > > see becouse I had a totaly removed tumor back in 1990 so some one on > other site told me that I should check out all hormone one by one > something I can't comprhend anyways indetail anyways my question is > to you guys base on these results what can I do should I go back to > my old regimin androgel or go on the shots like one said here at > 200mg at first and then 100mg thereafter Also I should tell you > though my balls are some how okay kind hard not so soft when I was > on TRT. does that mean I am coming back or what???????????I see my > regular endo in september and that long to wait that long. thanks > for reading. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Hi Jack is it possable you have a pituitary problem it's too bad they did not check your LH and FSH on this Test. When you have a brain tumor removed you should have all the hormones check. Here is a list it's up to you. • Total Testosterone • Bioavailable Testosterone (AKA " Free and Loosely Bound " ) • Free Testosterone (if Bioavailable T is unavailable) • DHT • Estradiol (specify the Extraction Method, or " sensitive " assay for males) • LH • FSH • Prolactin • Cortisol • Thyroid Panel • CBC • Comprehensive Metabolic Panel • Lipid Profile • PSA (if over 40) • IGF-1 (if HGH therapy is being considered) Also if you think you have a pituitary problem from your surgery here is a good site for more help. Hypopituitary_Support/messages You would need to post your whole story with tests results. I would hold off on going back on T meds until you can find out why this is going on. Phil jack <myhormonez@...> wrote: hey guys I have been here for a while untill last april when my new then reproductive endo asked me to stop the androgel I was taking at the time 5g and during all this time my total testosterone has been in the low 400 sh even at a time was low at 300 and then when I stoped it went up to 400 by itself so the Doctor assumed and said I am cured and sent me home and check it after one month sure enough I did it came back down 284 ng/dL well see for your self.... Total Testosterone 284 ng/dL range 250 - 1100 ng/dL FREE TESTOsterone 1.34 ng/dL range 1.1 - 2.8 ng/dL Testosterone BioAv 38.1 range is 35.0 -155.0 PG/ML Estradiol <20 range is <56 PG/ML TSH.............0.83 range is 0.49-4.67 uiu/ML see becouse I had a totaly removed tumor back in 1990 so some one on other site told me that I should check out all hormone one by one something I can't comprhend anyways indetail anyways my question is to you guys base on these results what can I do should I go back to my old regimin androgel or go on the shots like one said here at 200mg at first and then 100mg thereafter Also I should tell you though my balls are some how okay kind hard not so soft when I was on TRT. does that mean I am coming back or what???????????I see my regular endo in september and that long to wait that long. thanks for reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 to answer your question in short I was ok on the androgel at that level energy wise libido even now I get excited so easily get erection but don't get confuse my T is not 400 it is 284 at this time. As to what kind tumor it is called astrocytoma benign grade a or b I 4got. As to noctural errection I get them but not satisfactory unless I take vitamin C 1000mg the night before. I hope I answer your question and yes it has been uphill battle untill now but my new endo now will look at and will establish treatment plan. The only thing is that why he asked me why you need to check E2 and that threw me back why he even asks that kind question. Thanks for replying. > > Good to have you here. > > How did you feel on the Androgel?? On that level, did you > experience less low T side effects (low libido, poor > memory/concentration, apathy, energy issues, no noctural > erections)??? Shots are definitely an option, per AACE guidelines > in our File list here. Oh, what type of tumor did you have?? If > you did go back on Androgel, you probably would want to go > immediately to 7.5 or 10 mgs. as 400 is too low of a T reading. > > Seems to me it has been a struggle for awhile. You need to 1.) > figure out if you have the right and most aggressive doctor and 2.) > determine the best pattern for treatment for YOU as some absorb > better than others, some need HCG, other don't, etc. > > Blessings and keep shooting the questions, > > Bill > > > > > > > hey guys I have been here for a while untill last april when my > new > > then reproductive endo asked me to stop the androgel I was taking > at > > the time 5g and during all this time my total testosterone has > been > > in the low 400 sh even at a time was low at 300 and then when I > > stoped it went up to 400 by itself so the Doctor assumed and said > I > > am cured and sent me home and check it after one month sure enough > I > > did it came back down 284 ng/dL > > > > > > well see for your self.... > > Total Testosterone 284 ng/dL range 250 - 1100 ng/dL > > FREE TESTOsterone 1.34 ng/dL range 1.1 - 2.8 ng/dL > > Testosterone BioAv 38.1 range is 35.0 -155.0 PG/ML > > Estradiol <20 range is <56 PG/ML > > > > > > TSH.............0.83 range is 0.49-4.67 uiu/ML > > > > see becouse I had a totaly removed tumor back in 1990 so some one > on > > other site told me that I should check out all hormone one by one > > something I can't comprhend anyways indetail anyways my question > is > > to you guys base on these results what can I do should I go back > to > > my old regimin androgel or go on the shots like one said here at > > 200mg at first and then 100mg thereafter Also I should tell you > > though my balls are some how okay kind hard not so soft when I was > > on TRT. does that mean I am coming back or what???????????I see my > > regular endo in september and that long to wait that long. thanks > > for reading. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 to answer your question in short I was ok on the androgel at that level energy wise libido even now I get excited so easily get erection but don't get confuse my T is not 400 it is 284 at this time. As to what kind tumor it is called astrocytoma benign grade a or b I 4got. As to noctural errection I get them but not satisfactory unless I take vitamin C 1000mg the night before. I hope I answer your question and yes it has been uphill battle untill now but my new endo now will look at and will establish treatment plan. The only thing is that why he asked me why you need to check E2 and that threw me back why he even asks that kind question. Thanks for replying. > > Good to have you here. > > How did you feel on the Androgel?? On that level, did you > experience less low T side effects (low libido, poor > memory/concentration, apathy, energy issues, no noctural > erections)??? Shots are definitely an option, per AACE guidelines > in our File list here. Oh, what type of tumor did you have?? If > you did go back on Androgel, you probably would want to go > immediately to 7.5 or 10 mgs. as 400 is too low of a T reading. > > Seems to me it has been a struggle for awhile. You need to 1.) > figure out if you have the right and most aggressive doctor and 2.) > determine the best pattern for treatment for YOU as some absorb > better than others, some need HCG, other don't, etc. > > Blessings and keep shooting the questions, > > Bill > > > > > > > hey guys I have been here for a while untill last april when my > new > > then reproductive endo asked me to stop the androgel I was taking > at > > the time 5g and during all this time my total testosterone has > been > > in the low 400 sh even at a time was low at 300 and then when I > > stoped it went up to 400 by itself so the Doctor assumed and said > I > > am cured and sent me home and check it after one month sure enough > I > > did it came back down 284 ng/dL > > > > > > well see for your self.... > > Total Testosterone 284 ng/dL range 250 - 1100 ng/dL > > FREE TESTOsterone 1.34 ng/dL range 1.1 - 2.8 ng/dL > > Testosterone BioAv 38.1 range is 35.0 -155.0 PG/ML > > Estradiol <20 range is <56 PG/ML > > > > > > TSH.............0.83 range is 0.49-4.67 uiu/ML > > > > see becouse I had a totaly removed tumor back in 1990 so some one > on > > other site told me that I should check out all hormone one by one > > something I can't comprhend anyways indetail anyways my question > is > > to you guys base on these results what can I do should I go back > to > > my old regimin androgel or go on the shots like one said here at > > 200mg at first and then 100mg thereafter Also I should tell you > > though my balls are some how okay kind hard not so soft when I was > > on TRT. does that mean I am coming back or what???????????I see my > > regular endo in september and that long to wait that long. thanks > > for reading. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 No phil I know I don't have pituitary problem from the mri taken when back then If you remember back when they started me TRT my FREE testosterone was only down my TT was low but okay at 475 ng/dl but my TSH was really down .33 and now it is the opposite my free Testosterone is okay even though low my TT is low and my TSH is normal So you see I don't know what to look for any more except I know I should check all hormones and E2 again if that is possible with the new doctor. Thanks for now....Jack >------------------------ > Hi Jack is it possable you have a pituitary problem it's too bad they did not check your LH and FSH on this Test. When you have a brain tumor removed you should have all the hormones check. Here is a list it's up to you. > • Total Testosterone > • Bioavailable Testosterone (AKA " Free and Loosely Bound " ) > • Free Testosterone (if Bioavailable T is unavailable) > • DHT > • Estradiol (specify the Extraction Method, or " sensitive " assay for > males) > • LH > • FSH > • Prolactin > • Cortisol > • Thyroid Panel > • CBC > • Comprehensive Metabolic Panel > • Lipid Profile > • PSA (if over 40) > • IGF-1 (if HGH therapy is being considered) > > Also if you think you have a pituitary problem from your surgery here is a good site for more help. > Hypopituitary_Support/messages > You would need to post your whole story with tests results. > I would hold off on going back on T meds until you can find out why this is going on. > Phil > > jack <myhormonez@...> wrote: > hey guys I have been here for a while untill last april when my new > then reproductive endo asked me to stop the androgel I was taking at > the time 5g and during all this time my total testosterone has been > in the low 400 sh even at a time was low at 300 and then when I > stoped it went up to 400 by itself so the Doctor assumed and said I > am cured and sent me home and check it after one month sure enough I > did it came back down 284 ng/dL > > > well see for your self.... > Total Testosterone 284 ng/dL range 250 - 1100 ng/dL > FREE TESTOsterone 1.34 ng/dL range 1.1 - 2.8 ng/dL > Testosterone BioAv 38.1 range is 35.0 -155.0 PG/ML > Estradiol <20 range is <56 PG/ML > > > TSH.............0.83 range is 0.49-4.67 uiu/ML > > see becouse I had a totaly removed tumor back in 1990 so some one on > other site told me that I should check out all hormone one by one > something I can't comprhend anyways indetail anyways my question is > to you guys base on these results what can I do should I go back to > my old regimin androgel or go on the shots like one said here at > 200mg at first and then 100mg thereafter Also I should tell you > though my balls are some how okay kind hard not so soft when I was > on TRT. does that mean I am coming back or what???????????I see my > regular endo in september and that long to wait that long. thanks > for reading. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Well I had an MRI and it does not show anything yet adding HCG my T levels doubled so I am not primary now my Dr. tells me I am Hypopituitary. Next thing you need to do is a test using HCG or Clomid to see what your Testis are doing you still could be having a pituitary problem I don't understand why your levels stayed up for so long. The test is in the AACE Guildlines. A Clomid Stimulation Test can also demonstrate secondary hypogonadism. Phil jack <myhormonez@...> wrote: No phil I know I don't have pituitary problem from the mri taken when back then If you remember back when they started me TRT my FREE testosterone was only down my TT was low but okay at 475 ng/dl but my TSH was really down .33 and now it is the opposite my free Testosterone is okay even though low my TT is low and my TSH is normal So you see I don't know what to look for any more except I know I should check all hormones and E2 again if that is possible with the new doctor. Thanks for now....Jack >------------------------ > Hi Jack is it possable you have a pituitary problem it's too bad they did not check your LH and FSH on this Test. When you have a brain tumor removed you should have all the hormones check. Here is a list it's up to you. > • Total Testosterone > • Bioavailable Testosterone (AKA " Free and Loosely Bound " ) > • Free Testosterone (if Bioavailable T is unavailable) > • DHT > • Estradiol (specify the Extraction Method, or " sensitive " assay for > males) > • LH > • FSH > • Prolactin > • Cortisol > • Thyroid Panel > • CBC > • Comprehensive Metabolic Panel > • Lipid Profile > • PSA (if over 40) > • IGF-1 (if HGH therapy is being considered) > > Also if you think you have a pituitary problem from your surgery here is a good site for more help. > Hypopituitary_Support/messages > You would need to post your whole story with tests results. > I would hold off on going back on T meds until you can find out why this is going on. > Phil > > jack wrote: > hey guys I have been here for a while untill last april when my new > then reproductive endo asked me to stop the androgel I was taking at > the time 5g and during all this time my total testosterone has been > in the low 400 sh even at a time was low at 300 and then when I > stoped it went up to 400 by itself so the Doctor assumed and said I > am cured and sent me home and check it after one month sure enough I > did it came back down 284 ng/dL > > > well see for your self.... > Total Testosterone 284 ng/dL range 250 - 1100 ng/dL > FREE TESTOsterone 1.34 ng/dL range 1.1 - 2.8 ng/dL > Testosterone BioAv 38.1 range is 35.0 -155.0 PG/ML > Estradiol <20 range is <56 PG/ML > > > TSH.............0.83 range is 0.49-4.67 uiu/ML > > see becouse I had a totaly removed tumor back in 1990 so some one on > other site told me that I should check out all hormone one by one > something I can't comprhend anyways indetail anyways my question is > to you guys base on these results what can I do should I go back to > my old regimin androgel or go on the shots like one said here at > 200mg at first and then 100mg thereafter Also I should tell you > though my balls are some how okay kind hard not so soft when I was > on TRT. does that mean I am coming back or what???????????I see my > regular endo in september and that long to wait that long. thanks > for reading. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Deb, Just a thought: my flatback was not considered "severe", but the pain was interrupting my daily life. My fusion was also solid, but the pain was there. In my opinion, you should see one of the surgeons mentioned here. I know that it made all the difference for me! Deb <daveanddeborah@...> wrote: Hi everyone - I'm probably going to ramble a bit, hoping that writing this out willhelp me figure out what's next. I'm really upset and trying to figureout where to go from here.So, I finally had a HELPFUL conversation with someone at my insurancecompany about what would be helpful in the appeal process I've been inall year for more physical therapy. I won't bore you with all theTERRIBLE advice and VAGUENESS I've received from all levels.Bottom line - i need a doctor who knows my case very well to have aplan for treating my pain with physical therapy.I had already come to the conclusion that Dr. Lee at U of M is NOT thedoctor for me, as he would consistently tell me i have a bad back andhave to live with the pain, when his two recommendations failed toprovide adequate relief (cortisone injections and strength-basedphysical therapy). I had to force the issue to get a CT myelogram inorder to find out there are some changes, but nothing he can treatsurgically. I wasn't looking for surgery when I saw him. I had newnerve pains - a brand new kind of symptom - and was looking for relieffrom those pains as well as continued pain relief for the painthroughout my back and hips. I stayed with him this year out of laziness, I suppose, so I didn'thave to beg for money from people so I can try to see a doctor out ofstate. My insurance would work with me for the dr visit, but thetravel/lodging is the issue.SO, I'm feeling stuck with what I need to do. Can you help? Do I go toone of the drs often mentioned here, or do I try several drs closer tomy area since I really don't think I'm surgical candidate (which iswhy I have not pursued talking with drs often mentioned here (Rand,Boachie, Bridwell, etc.). I honestly think I'm in a pain management phase of the post-harringtonjourney. My flatback is slight, my fusion, is solid, and I'm onlystarting to see stenosis in the lower levels. I did pain managementtherapy 5 or so years ago - drugs are not the answer for me.Biofeedback was nice knowledge and helpful for everyone to know about!But physical therapy and someone who would work with my particularbody and symptoms over a long period of time was incredible! Iactually was so improved that I didn't have NEAR the amount of painI'd had and was more active than I had been since a child. I've movedacross the country since then.As the best advocate for my own body, I need a dr who knows aboutflatback (not just the name, but what to keep an eye on!), but who canidentify some sources of my pain and direct a physical medicineprogram that includes soft tissue work, and perhaps injections or medsfor some of the nerve/ligament issues I know I have.My PCP is very understanding and supportive and readily agrees she'sout of her league on this case - she cannot help me with thiscondition and wants me to work with a specialist.I feel so defeated, and I'm back at square one - where I've been formore than a decade, trying to find someone who can help me manage my pain.Thanks for listening and advice you might have. Go see one of thesurgical drs or ??? Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside . See how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Deb, where do you live again? I would definitely get a consult from one of the top surgeons for post-Harrington care. You may or may not need surgery but one of them would be able to tell best. I also had slight flatback and my fusion was solid. I had severe DDD above and below the fusion and the discs were pressing on the nerves causing pain down my legs. I tried chiropractic care with about one month of relief, physical therapy with little relief, and finally epidural steroid injections which lasted about 4 months of relief. It wasn't until I had surgery that I had true relief. The bad discs were removed, foraminotomies were performed to open up the space, and the new fusion keeps everything in place so there is no pressure on the nerves. In your case I would definitely pick 2 of the closest surgeons spoke of frequently here and go see them. I think there are even some that will review your films and reports via mail as well. Take care, Peggy [ ] Back to Square One Hi everyone - I'm probably going to ramble a bit, hoping that writing this out willhelp me figure out what's next. I'm really upset and trying to figureout where to go from here.So, I finally had a HELPFUL conversation with someone at my insurancecompany about what would be helpful in the appeal process I've been inall year for more physical therapy. I won't bore you with all theTERRIBLE advice and VAGUENESS I've received from all levels.Bottom line - i need a doctor who knows my case very well to have aplan for treating my pain with physical therapy.I had already come to the conclusion that Dr. Lee at U of M is NOT thedoctor for me, as he would consistently tell me i have a bad back andhave to live with the pain, when his two recommendations failed toprovide adequate relief (cortisone injections and strength-basedphysical therapy). I had to force the issue to get a CT myelogram inorder to find out there are some changes, but nothing he can treatsurgically. I wasn't looking for surgery when I saw him. I had newnerve pains - a brand new kind of symptom - and was looking for relieffrom those pains as well as continued pain relief for the painthroughout my back and hips. I stayed with him this year out of laziness, I suppose, so I didn'thave to beg for money from people so I can try to see a doctor out ofstate. My insurance would work with me for the dr visit, but thetravel/lodging is the issue.SO, I'm feeling stuck with what I need to do. Can you help? Do I go toone of the drs often mentioned here, or do I try several drs closer tomy area since I really don't think I'm surgical candidate (which iswhy I have not pursued talking with drs often mentioned here (Rand,Boachie, Bridwell, etc.). I honestly think I'm in a pain management phase of the post-harringtonjourney. My flatback is slight, my fusion, is solid, and I'm onlystarting to see stenosis in the lower levels. I did pain managementtherapy 5 or so years ago - drugs are not the answer for me.Biofeedback was nice knowledge and helpful for everyone to know about!But physical therapy and someone who would work with my particularbody and symptoms over a long period of time was incredible! Iactually was so improved that I didn't have NEAR the amount of painI'd had and was more active than I had been since a child. I've movedacross the country since then.As the best advocate for my own body, I need a dr who knows aboutflatback (not just the name, but what to keep an eye on!), but who canidentify some sources of my pain and direct a physical medicineprogram that includes soft tissue work, and perhaps injections or medsfor some of the nerve/ligament issues I know I have.My PCP is very understanding and supportive and readily agrees she'sout of her league on this case - she cannot help me with thiscondition and wants me to work with a specialist.I feel so defeated, and I'm back at square one - where I've been formore than a decade, trying to find someone who can help me manage my pain.Thanks for listening and advice you might have. Go see one of thesurgical drs or ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Deborah, I know you wrote that post hoping to sort your own thoughts out and I am not sure if you convinced yourself of any one direction. It does seem to me that many people after surgery found the best solutions to their continued pain or disability utilizing a somewhat " self generated " holistic treatment plan. My personal feeling is that there is no " magic " bullet in dealing with the scoli, HR, or flatback pre or post revision. For the most part orthopedic surgeons " do " surgery. They are not PCP's and tend not to address flatback patients as long term patients...(although I will say that DrRand left his group practice in order to do just that because he feels there is a huge gap in us " older scoli's " being able to get the continued follow-up we need.) I digress. What is it that you wish to follow from your next back doctor visit? Are you simply looking for a doctor that will prescribe in a way that your insurance company will accept so that you can get more PT paid for or are you looking for a doctor that will send you on to chronic pain mgmnt? I am confused because you seem to be too! In any event, if it was me, and I am not saying this is or will be true for you, I would not be able to accept the " live with it " answer from any surgeon unless I heard it from the names we always suggest people get an opinion from. It would gnaw away at me like a worm, always wondering if there was something that Dr.Lee might not be aware of. In my 4 years on these message boards I have yet to hear from any other patient of his. I don't mean to say I don't think he is a fine, competent surgeon...I am sure he is...I just have no reason as a patient, and lay person, to have confidence that he has the gotten anyone where they need to go if they are in need of revision. And I am a " show me " kind of girl. So I guess my advice would be to pursue a BIG opinion. It doesn't have to be tomorrow, it is not an emergency. You can work on getting an appointment and save a little " travel kitty " over the next few months. You already have most of the films you need. If you shop the internet you can find low airfares...you could even preview airfares and use that as a guide as to who you might try to get in to see first. As to hotels, you are unlikely to need to be in another city for longer than one night, if at all, so with carful shopping I bet you can limit travel expenses to less than $400. Set aside $25.00 a week and you will probably have the $$ by the time 4 months is up...about how long it usually takes to see one of these doctors. I would recommend that you go ahead now and get copies of you office visit notes from DrLee and the Radioligist report generated from your imagry. I would also recommend contacting the person you were working with back in Arizona(?) that had you feeling pretty good and asking them if they can give you some guidance. I do read that the StLouis group seems to have a fairly comprehensive approach to patient PT, having them work with a therapist there in STL showing them exactly what they want and then letting the " home " PT contact them is they have travelled from another state for clarification. You might also want to consider researching other bodyworkers and PTs in your area on your own and seeing if you can narrow down the list so that you can perhaps tailor your own therapy. I would and did explore, in no particular order, Technique, various massage and deep tissue techniques (ex.: myofascial release), cranio-sacral therapy, pilates or yoga. Around my hometown there is a much loved Dr. of Osteopathic medicine (called a D.O.) who might also have a different approach to your whole health and be able to be the kind of " support doctor " you are looking for. Also, talk to other people in your area who are practicing other specialized alternative therapies and this will undoubtedly lead you to other modalities. I bet you will be able to tell which ones are promising for you just by reading about them. I guess my point is that even if you find a " dream " doctor...there is unlikely to be ONE thing they are going to do for you that is going to improve things signifigantly for you. I will guess it is going to be a montage of things going on at different levels in order to get you where you want and need to go. I have probably just muddied the waters, but I hear your frustration and I do hope that you get the right constellation of health care and body workers in your orbit. Take Care, Cam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Deb, I agree with Peggy's excellent advice. Only then will you feel secure and confident in any therapy or surgery you choose to undertake. On a different note, I reread your post from 2 years ago (Nov. 7, 2005) and that is where I am now. Some may think me a kook but I have been diligent about taking vitamins, minerals, antioxidents, fish oil, etc. and using alternative therapies for the past 30 years. My appointment with Dr. Lenke on Dec. 19th will be the first time I have seen an orthopedic surgeon specifically for rod related problems since my Harrington Rod Doctor released me in Spring of 1973.That is mostly because I never wanted to relive the emotional/physical trauma I endured between the ages of 11 and 20. And because I always said I never would go through back surgery again. (Never say Never?) My GP's have been good about pain meds and I have done strengthening and stretching exercises since I was very little. This appointment is mostly because I can tell I am getting worse and want to know how to proceed, but also, because no ortho would see me when i really needed one after I had 2 bulging discs a few years ago. They wouldn't see me because of my Harrington Rod!!! Back to alternative therapies: Throughout pregnancies at ages 38- 40, I was on prednisone. After I went off the prednisone, I was a mess, aching all over and crippled up. I knew about Rolfing from a friend of mine (who is a Rolfer in Wisconsin) and found one nearby (only 1 1/2 hours away).You can GOOGLE " Rolfing " to get more information. This woman is amazing. It was somewhat painful to go through the 10 sessions (my psoas muscle was VERY tight) but I felt painfree, lighter, and happier after each session. She now charges $85 for each 1 1/2 hour session which I think is worth much much more! It was not covered by insurance. Our bodies compensate for pain. We tighten up and protect the injured areas. Then, when the injury is over, sometimes our bodies keep " protecting " those areas which are fine. Our muscles have memories, and sometimes need to be released. This is only for your muscles. This does not help nerve or bone damage. But I can tell you from experience that it works and that the effects last years. This is what helped me and I am still so thankful I found my rolfer. It is one idea - for what it is worth, and I share it only because I want for you what I received. Good luck with all your many decisions. -- > > Deb, where do you live again? I would definitely get a consult from one of the top surgeons for post-Harrington care. You may or may not need surgery but one of them would be able to tell best. I also had slight flatback and my fusion was solid. I had severe DDD above and below the fusion and the discs were pressing on the nerves causing pain down my legs. I tried chiropractic care with about one month of relief, physical therapy with little relief, and finally epidural steroid injections which lasted about 4 months of relief. It wasn't until I had surgery that I had true relief. The bad discs were removed, foraminotomies were performed to open up the space, and the new fusion keeps everything in place so there is no pressure on the nerves. > > In your case I would definitely pick 2 of the closest surgeons spoke of frequently here and go see them. I think there are even some that will review your films and reports via mail as well. > > Take care, > Peggy > > [ ] Back to Square One > > > Hi everyone - > > I'm probably going to ramble a bit, hoping that writing this out will > help me figure out what's next. I'm really upset and trying to figure > out where to go from here. > > So, I finally had a HELPFUL conversation with someone at my insurance > company about what would be helpful in the appeal process I've been in > all year for more physical therapy. I won't bore you with all the > TERRIBLE advice and VAGUENESS I've received from all levels. > > Bottom line - i need a doctor who knows my case very well to have a > plan for treating my pain with physical therapy. > > I had already come to the conclusion that Dr. Lee at U of M is NOT the > doctor for me, as he would consistently tell me i have a bad back and > have to live with the pain, when his two recommendations failed to > provide adequate relief (cortisone injections and strength-based > physical therapy). I had to force the issue to get a CT myelogram in > order to find out there are some changes, but nothing he can treat > surgically. I wasn't looking for surgery when I saw him. I had new > nerve pains - a brand new kind of symptom - and was looking for relief > from those pains as well as continued pain relief for the pain > throughout my back and hips. > > I stayed with him this year out of laziness, I suppose, so I didn't > have to beg for money from people so I can try to see a doctor out of > state. My insurance would work with me for the dr visit, but the > travel/lodging is the issue. > > SO, I'm feeling stuck with what I need to do. Can you help? Do I go to > one of the drs often mentioned here, or do I try several drs closer to > my area since I really don't think I'm surgical candidate (which is > why I have not pursued talking with drs often mentioned here (Rand, > Boachie, Bridwell, etc.). > > I honestly think I'm in a pain management phase of the post- harrington > journey. My flatback is slight, my fusion, is solid, and I'm only > starting to see stenosis in the lower levels. I did pain management > therapy 5 or so years ago - drugs are not the answer for me. > Biofeedback was nice knowledge and helpful for everyone to know about! > But physical therapy and someone who would work with my particular > body and symptoms over a long period of time was incredible! I > actually was so improved that I didn't have NEAR the amount of pain > I'd had and was more active than I had been since a child. I've moved > across the country since then. > > As the best advocate for my own body, I need a dr who knows about > flatback (not just the name, but what to keep an eye on!), but who can > identify some sources of my pain and direct a physical medicine > program that includes soft tissue work, and perhaps injections or meds > for some of the nerve/ligament issues I know I have. > > My PCP is very understanding and supportive and readily agrees she's > out of her league on this case - she cannot help me with this > condition and wants me to work with a specialist. > > I feel so defeated, and I'm back at square one - where I've been for > more than a decade, trying to find someone who can help me manage my pain. > > Thanks for listening and advice you might have. Go see one of the > surgical drs or ??? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 Hi, Cam, Kathy, Peggy, , and others that responded -- thank you so much for your responses. You confirmed what I've been thinking I have to have, when I realized early in 07 that Dr. Lee is not the right doctor for me. I had been starting to see some help with this round of PT, so I stayed with him. But it definitely is time to move on. And Cam, you're right. It gnaws at me what some of the other drs would say. And it scares me too. If they say to live with it, then what?? I feel I'm back to square one since I'd be willing to try a brand new tactic. I don't think I'm looking for a dr to write what my insurance wants to hear, because the appeals board has no idea what the best course of action for my body is. It's not their concern, even if they say otherwise. I guess I'm naturally skeptical, that insurance needs a really good reason to say yes, or else it's a no to everything since it saves them money. So, I'll see what I can work out to go see some of the folks we mention regularly on the board, since there don't seem to be any more drs within a 100 miles that have experience with this. And if there's a new plan, that's fine with me. I've been fighting for PT since it's been the modality that worked in the past, and was starting to work this year before cut off, and it is a more holistic approach (biomechanics and such). I would be interested in trying non-traditional remedies. To be honest, I haven't done more research or tried the modalities I have researched because of the money involved. Many of you know that I'm a pastor, and I am paid well (we're not living on the streets), but it just covers the bills. It was a huge feat to go to NC last year, as there isn't extra money to set aside. This is usual, especially in the first 10 years when all the school loans are still being repaid. And, as you might expect, non-traditional treatments are not covered by my insurance . . . <sigh> So - thanks again for your advice. I'm going to see what I can do to go see these drs and really hope I don't hear (for the umpteenth time) that there's nothing that can be done and to live with it. Deb M. > > Deborah, > > I know you wrote that post hoping to sort your own thoughts out and I > am not sure if you convinced yourself of any one direction. It does > seem to me that many people after surgery found the best solutions to > their continued pain or disability utilizing a somewhat " self > generated " holistic treatment plan. My personal feeling is that there > is no " magic " bullet in dealing with the scoli, HR, or flatback pre > or post revision. > > For the most part orthopedic surgeons " do " surgery. They are not > PCP's and tend not to address flatback patients as long term > patients...(although I will say that DrRand left his group practice > in order to do just that because he feels there is a huge gap in > us " older scoli's " being able to get the continued follow-up we need.) > > I digress. What is it that you wish to follow from your next back > doctor visit? Are you simply looking for a doctor that will prescribe > in a way that your insurance company will accept so that you can get > more PT paid for or are you looking for a doctor that will send you > on to chronic pain mgmnt? I am confused because you seem to be too! > > In any event, if it was me, and I am not saying this is or will be > true for you, I would not be able to accept the " live with it " answer > from any surgeon unless I heard it from the names we always suggest > people get an opinion from. It would gnaw away at me like a worm, > always wondering if there was something that Dr.Lee might not be > aware of. In my 4 years on these message boards I have yet to hear > from any other patient of his. I don't mean to say I don't think he > is a fine, competent surgeon...I am sure he is...I just have no > reason as a patient, and lay person, to have confidence that he has > the gotten anyone where they need to go if they are in need of > revision. And I am a " show me " kind of girl. So I guess my advice > would be to pursue a BIG opinion. It doesn't have to be tomorrow, it > is not an emergency. You can work on getting an appointment and save > a little " travel kitty " over the next few months. You already have > most of the films you need. If you shop the internet you can find low > airfares...you could even preview airfares and use that as a guide as > to who you might try to get in to see first. As to hotels, you are > unlikely to need to be in another city for longer than one night, if > at all, so with carful shopping I bet you can limit travel expenses > to less than $400. Set aside $25.00 a week and you will probably have > the $$ by the time 4 months is up...about how long it usually takes > to see one of these doctors. > > I would recommend that you go ahead now and get copies of you office > visit notes from DrLee and the Radioligist report generated from your > imagry. > > I would also recommend contacting the person you were working with > back in Arizona(?) that had you feeling pretty good and asking them > if they can give you some guidance. I do read that the StLouis group > seems to have a fairly comprehensive approach to patient PT, having > them work with a therapist there in STL showing them exactly what > they want and then letting the " home " PT contact them is they have > travelled from another state for clarification. > > You might also want to consider researching other bodyworkers and PTs > in your area on your own and seeing if you can narrow down the list > so that you can perhaps tailor your own therapy. I would and did > explore, in no particular order, Technique, various massage > and deep tissue techniques (ex.: myofascial release), cranio-sacral > therapy, pilates or yoga. Around my hometown there is a much loved > Dr. of Osteopathic medicine (called a D.O.) who might also have a > different approach to your whole health and be able to be the kind > of " support doctor " you are looking for. Also, talk to other people > in your area who are practicing other specialized alternative > therapies and this will undoubtedly lead you to other modalities. I > bet you will be able to tell which ones are promising for you just by > reading about them. > > I guess my point is that even if you find a " dream " doctor...there is > unlikely to be ONE thing they are going to do for you that is going > to improve things signifigantly for you. I will guess it is going to > be a montage of things going on at different levels in order to get > you where you want and need to go. > > I have probably just muddied the waters, but I hear your frustration > and I do hope that you get the right constellation of health care and > body workers in your orbit. > > Take Care, Cam > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 Cam, would you send me Dr. Rand's office number? The ones I saw online are all with Boston Spine Group, and I think you said he wasn't with them anymore (and he's not listed as a dr there). Thanks! Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 Cam - I'd be interested in more information on Dr. Rand as well. Thanks, > > Cam, would you send me Dr. Rand's office number? The ones I saw online > are all with Boston Spine Group, and I think you said he wasn't with > them anymore (and he's not listed as a dr there). > > Thanks! > > Deb > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 Hi Deb, You asked for advice so here I go. I really think you need to see one of the big, surgical docs, like Drs Boachie or Bridwell. In your emails, you say Dr. Lee suggests you just live with the pain. In my book, that translates as he has no idea what to do for you, not that nothing can be done. You also say your PCP is out of her league. So, you've seen two docs who do not know what to do for you. Then, in the absence of a doc who would know how to diagnose you, you have diagnosed yourself as not really having Flatback, not needing surgery and only needing the right PT program. Deb, IMO, before anyone, even yourself, can decide what to do for you, you need a proper diagnosis from a doc who specializes in post Harington Rod patients. So, I strongly hope you can find a way to see one of the top docs. Perhaps there is some charitable help available? Perhaps the staff of one of the docs has some knowledge about this. I wish you the best. Please keep us informed and ask if there is anything we can do. Bonnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Thanks, Bonnie! I saw Dr. Hu and Dr. Booth in 2003, who were the ones to confirm that I had flatback, but that it was very slight and at least then not a candidate for the revision surgery many of our members are having. The xrays i've had done in the last year show little progression. But Dr. Lee has nothing to explain or treat my pain, so I knew I had to move on. I'm pursuing appts with Dr. Ondra, Dr. Lenke or Dr. Bridwell and Dr. Rand, at this point. > > Hi Deb, > > You asked for advice so here I go. I really think you need to see one of the big, surgical docs, like Drs Boachie or Bridwell. In your emails, you say Dr. Lee suggests you just live with the pain. In my book, that translates as he has no idea what to do for you, not that nothing can be done. You also say your PCP is out of her league. So, you've seen two docs who do not know what to do for you. Then, in the absence of a doc who would know how to diagnose you, you have diagnosed yourself as not really having Flatback, not needing surgery and only needing the right PT program. Deb, IMO, before anyone, even yourself, can decide what to do for you, you need a proper diagnosis from a doc who specializes in post Harington Rod patients. So, I strongly hope you can find a way to see one of the top docs. Perhaps there is some charitable help available? Perhaps the staff of one of the docs has some knowledge about this. > > I wish you the best. Please keep us informed and ask if there is anything we can do. > > Bonnie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Hi Deb, DrRands office number is 617.754.5744. You will probably speak with Priscilla to schedule and they may want to examine your " stuff " before they schedule. Since he is on his own now, I know he is booked fairly far in advance. Be sure to let them know you are going to travel in for the appt. and I am sure they will work with you. You might even be able to do Boston as a day trip if the weather cooperates. A taxi from the airport to his office is just under $20 and less than 20 mins as long as it's not rush hour. Generally he is on time or as close as any doctor gets to it. If you need anything else please let me know. In the mean time, I am glad you are persuing different treatments too. I hope you find a good team for yourself. Take Care, Cam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 Deb, I would see a surgical specialist. My PCP, like yours feels out of his league with my back and they will do whatever I want/need. While that's great, you feel like you're responsible for finding the right thing to do rather than get " sent " somewhere by someone who knows. It's a scary process being in charge of your own care. I went to my local ortho (who I just go to in order to get therapy or pain med) but when I want answers / recommendations/ anything important I go to Dr. Rand - he's the specialist and he knows what to do and when. Hope that helps! By the way, I am nearing the end of my PT visits and didn't realize you could appeal for more so thanks for that tip. I was doing core strengthening and soft tissue massage which was helping a lot but then I started to revert back to so much pain, I couldn't do the exercises. My next stop is warm water therapy which my PT even recommended. I'll let you know if it helps! Luann > > > > Deb, where do you live again? I would definitely get a consult > from one of the top surgeons for post-Harrington care. You may or > may not need surgery but one of them would be able to tell best. I > also had slight flatback and my fusion was solid. I had severe DDD > above and below the fusion and the discs were pressing on the nerves > causing pain down my legs. I tried chiropractic care with about one > month of relief, physical therapy with little relief, and finally > epidural steroid injections which lasted about 4 months of relief. > It wasn't until I had surgery that I had true relief. The bad discs > were removed, foraminotomies were performed to open up the space, and > the new fusion keeps everything in place so there is no pressure on > the nerves. > > > > In your case I would definitely pick 2 of the closest surgeons > spoke of frequently here and go see them. I think there are even > some that will review your films and reports via mail as well. > > > > Take care, > > Peggy > > > > [ ] Back to Square One > > > > > > Hi everyone - > > > > I'm probably going to ramble a bit, hoping that writing this out > will > > help me figure out what's next. I'm really upset and trying to > figure > > out where to go from here. > > > > So, I finally had a HELPFUL conversation with someone at my > insurance > > company about what would be helpful in the appeal process I've > been in > > all year for more physical therapy. I won't bore you with all the > > TERRIBLE advice and VAGUENESS I've received from all levels. > > > > Bottom line - i need a doctor who knows my case very well to have > a > > plan for treating my pain with physical therapy. > > > > I had already come to the conclusion that Dr. Lee at U of M is > NOT the > > doctor for me, as he would consistently tell me i have a bad back > and > > have to live with the pain, when his two recommendations failed to > > provide adequate relief (cortisone injections and strength-based > > physical therapy). I had to force the issue to get a CT myelogram > in > > order to find out there are some changes, but nothing he can treat > > surgically. I wasn't looking for surgery when I saw him. I had new > > nerve pains - a brand new kind of symptom - and was looking for > relief > > from those pains as well as continued pain relief for the pain > > throughout my back and hips. > > > > I stayed with him this year out of laziness, I suppose, so I > didn't > > have to beg for money from people so I can try to see a doctor > out of > > state. My insurance would work with me for the dr visit, but the > > travel/lodging is the issue. > > > > SO, I'm feeling stuck with what I need to do. Can you help? Do I > go to > > one of the drs often mentioned here, or do I try several drs > closer to > > my area since I really don't think I'm surgical candidate (which > is > > why I have not pursued talking with drs often mentioned here > (Rand, > > Boachie, Bridwell, etc.). > > > > I honestly think I'm in a pain management phase of the post- > harrington > > journey. My flatback is slight, my fusion, is solid, and I'm only > > starting to see stenosis in the lower levels. I did pain > management > > therapy 5 or so years ago - drugs are not the answer for me. > > Biofeedback was nice knowledge and helpful for everyone to know > about! > > But physical therapy and someone who would work with my particular > > body and symptoms over a long period of time was incredible! I > > actually was so improved that I didn't have NEAR the amount of > pain > > I'd had and was more active than I had been since a child. I've > moved > > across the country since then. > > > > As the best advocate for my own body, I need a dr who knows about > > flatback (not just the name, but what to keep an eye on!), but > who can > > identify some sources of my pain and direct a physical medicine > > program that includes soft tissue work, and perhaps injections or > meds > > for some of the nerve/ligament issues I know I have. > > > > My PCP is very understanding and supportive and readily agrees > she's > > out of her league on this case - she cannot help me with this > > condition and wants me to work with a specialist. > > > > I feel so defeated, and I'm back at square one - where I've been > for > > more than a decade, trying to find someone who can help me manage > my pain. > > > > Thanks for listening and advice you might have. Go see one of the > > surgical drs or ??? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Hello, it's me and we are back to square one. I don't know how much to write about it, I am so drained. For the past two months I've had my doubts about the "progress" Maysa was making in her helmet. For one, her ortho kept messing with her beginning numbers every time we would go for a visit. What I noticed just from looking at her and comparing her to her sister is that although she grew a bit in the back, she also seemed to grow on the sides. She mainly has brachy with a little plagio. Of course DH thinks I am impatient as usual. Of course he doesn't see what I see. Of course he thinks that the ortho knows what he is doing and that we should just wait and see. Well I was off today and last week, I decided to make an appointment and go back to Orthoamerica in Columbia MD where Maysa had gotten an evaluation scan of her head three and a half months ago. I will have to post the print out they gave me. It makes me sick in my stomach. Maysa had amazing growth spurts during this time, yet, she basically grew all around. Yes, on the sides, in the back even a little bit up front. Her CI went from 97.9% to 98.2%. Her asymmetry also went up by 1mm or so. I am infuriated beyond words. She will be 9 months old on Wednesday. She is a big baby and her head circumference is already 48cm. The ortho we saw today said that the average baby's head circumference is about 49mm which means that a new band from a new provider would probably not do much correction. She grew almost 4cm in circumference in three and a half months. All wasted. I am so desperate. Somebody lift me up! Somebody tell me there is still time to do something! Anybody out there going to Eastern Cranial Affiliates, beware! Leila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Sounds like it could be a Hashi's attack. Look at this: http://WWW trueessentials.net/mineralph.asp make sure you click on the information page which is located at the bottom below the pic. CW -- back to square one I need some help and ideas. I cannot take Armour anymore. It makes me feel CREEPY -- weak arms and legs -- crawling muscles -- feelings of anxiety and any activity beyond mildly walking around gets my heartrate really elevated. This started around Christmas. I had been on about 75mg of Armour and was doing ok -- not great, but ok and my labs were pretty good. Then, all of a sudden, I couldn't manage the Armour at all -- major hyper symptoms. With each step down, I felt more and more relief. Now I'm down to 15mg, and of course, my labs are in the tank. I do have hashi's. Maybe this is a hashi's attack, but since I can't manage Armour, I have no idea what to do to stop the attack. My adrenals have been tested and are good. Ferritin was 19 -- now up to 38 -- so I'll keep taking iron. My B12 was in range but not too far in, so I'm taking that too. What else should I do? What else should I take that might help? I do take general vites and zinc and selenium. Does anybody have a clue what's going on? My Dr does not feel it's a reverse T3 problem. He says to just slowly slowly start back up -- but I don't think that's the answer. My GP gave me some generic synthroid and I wonder if I should just give up on Armour and try that. I am frustrated and so sick of this! Amy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 My cytomel is only 5 mcg and I take it when I workout too hard and my T3 falls the following day. I can see my pale ashen skin turn pink in minutes even on that low of a dose. My skin even tightens a bit. Regular dosing of T3 makes me look sickly though. If I could just convert on my own I would be feel great. ________________________________ From: Steve <dudescholar4@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2009 6:16:30 PM Subject: Re: Re: back to square one I cannot " feel " it at all. T3 has a half life of 24 hours plus or minus an hour or two depending on ones hyper/hypo status. If one takes 50 mcg of T3 at 7 AM, one will still have about 25 mcg in their system at 7 AM the next morning and 12.5 mcg in their system 48 hours later. If one takes 50 mcg every day, they will eventually reach the point where they start each day with about 100 mcg in their blood since daily dosing will approach a steady state over time (50 mcg for the day, 25 mcg from the day before, 12.5 mcg from the day before that, 6.25 from the day before that, etc.) I only take T3 once a day at about 7 AM. Steve wrote: > I can feel cytomel in minutes. It dissipates in hours. Theoretically Armour could be felt in under 20 minutes because of the T3. Armour however makes me feel like hell. > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > From: MSE <knockneedgmail (DOT) com> > hypothyroidism > Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2009 5:42:17 PM > Subject: Re: Re: back to square one > > > My goodness.... . this statement indicates a lack of being in touch with > reality. Meds can't even get into the system in a minute, much less > improve/ alter the way you walk! Unless you are shooting them into the > veins, of course. > > mse > > On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 11:38 PM, Gracia <circefairpoint (DOT) net> wrote: > >> I will be sure to put in a smiley face if I am making a joke---but this >> wasn't one. Armour is a completely different med from $inthroid and you >> feel the T3 right away. yes it took just a minute for me to get some >> relief. >> I have had a lot of experience using hormones like Armour, cortef, sex >> hormones, and I have read these lists for TEN! years, and I have read a lot >> of great books. I feel pretty confidant in my knowledge and experience. >> Gracia >> >> Gracia, it's really hard to know if you're joking if you don't put in a >> smiley or something; or if you're just making a really dumb statement. >> Or if everybody else in the world is wrong and you're right. Nothing >> I've read from any source [no matter how crackpot] suggests you can have >> beneficial results from Armour or any other hypo medication in a >> minute. What are you really trying to say? Did you actually see vastly >> improved results in about a minute??? >> >> There may well be some good info in the pages you so frequently >> reference. But it only takes a little $#!t mixed in to totally spoil my >> taste for ice cream so I usually don't bother with them any more. >> >> >> . >> . >> >> > NO >> > wrong dose is the #1 biggest prob there is using Armour, iodine, >> > cortef. when the body is starving for thyroid hormoine it will beg for >> > more--this happened to me. I couldn't walk straight on 60mg--got >> > better in a minute on 90mg... -- Steve - dudescholar4@ basicmail. net Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvoc ates.org/ quiz.html " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 actually and interestingly both Armour and Iodoral helped me to walk and have better balance within minutes--yes a real miracle. I just chew up my Armour. ya know I may really be living in a different reality than you guys. Gracia My goodness..... this statement indicates a lack of being in touch with reality. Meds can't even get into the system in a minute, much less improve/ alter the way you walk! Unless you are shooting them into the veins, of course. mse On ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1992 - Release Date: 03/09/09 19:20:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Years ago when I still got headaches I would sometimes take aspirin and get relief in a minute or two. Which used to p!$$ me off to no end, because I know that aspirin cannot possibly work that fast physiologically; so it had to be a psychological response. Which may explain someone's response to a medication [or a placebo] in a minute. For me I suspect a placebo would have been just as effective provided I was unaware of its true nature. I know caffeine can work in a few minutes; but not one minute [for me]. I suspect someone who gets an immediate boost is responding to a psychological component but I'm not really sure how fast caffeine can get from the gut into the blood. .. .. > > Posted by: " Steve " dudescholar4@... > <mailto:dudescholar4@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20back%20to%20square%20one> > dudescholar <dudescholar> > > > Sun Mar 8, 2009 6:17 pm (PDT) > > I cannot " feel " it at all. > > T3 has a half life of 24 hours plus or minus an hour or two depending on > ones hyper/hypo status. If one takes 50 mcg of T3 at 7 AM, one will > still have about 25 mcg in their system at 7 AM the next morning and > 12.5 mcg in their system 48 hours later. If one takes 50 mcg every day, > they will eventually reach the point where they start each day with > about 100 mcg in their blood since daily dosing will approach a steady > state over time (50 mcg for the day, 25 mcg from the day before, 12.5 > mcg from the day before that, 6.25 from the day before that, etc.) > > I only take T3 once a day at about 7 AM. > > Steve > > wrote: > > I can feel cytomel in minutes. It dissipates in hours. Theoretically > Armour could be felt in under 20 minutes because of the T3. Armour > however makes me feel like hell. > > > > > > > > ____________ > ____________________ > > From: MSE <knockneed@... <mailto:knockneed%40gmail.com>> > > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > > Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2009 5:42:17 PM > > Subject: Re: Re: back to square one > > > > > > My goodness.... . this statement indicates a lack of being in touch with > > reality. Meds can't even get into the system in a minute, much less > > improve/ alter the way you walk! Unless you are shooting them into the > > veins, of course. > > > > mse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Gracia, are you still taking like 100mg of iodine? ________________________________ From: Gracia <circe@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 9:05:40 PM Subject: Re: Re: back to square one actually and interestingly both Armour and Iodoral helped me to walk and have better balance within minutes--yes a real miracle. I just chew up my Armour. ya know I may really be living in a different reality than you guys. Gracia My goodness.... . this statement indicates a lack of being in touch with reality. Meds can't even get into the system in a minute, much less improve/ alter the way you walk! Unless you are shooting them into the veins, of course. mse On ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1992 - Release Date: 03/09/09 19:20:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I was able to tell how fast caffeine made my heart go into atrial fib, about 15 - 50 minutes and there it was. Really a no brainer on that in my case. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > I can feel cytomel in minutes. It dissipates in hours. Theoretically > Armour could be felt in under 20 minutes because of the T3. Armour > however makes me feel like hell. > > > > > > > > ____________ > ____________________ > > From: MSE <knockneed@... <mailto:knockneed%40gmail.com>> > > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroidism%40> > > Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2009 5:42:17 PM > > Subject: Re: Re: back to square one > > > > > > My goodness.... . this statement indicates a lack of being in touch with > > reality. Meds can't even get into the system in a minute, much less > > improve/ alter the way you walk! Unless you are shooting them into the > > veins, of course. > > > > mse ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Armour makes you feel like hell at what dose??? Gracia I can feel cytomel in minutes. It dissipates in hours. Theoretically Armour could be felt in under 20 minutes because of the T3. Armour however makes me feel like hell. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.10/1995 - Release Date: 03/11/09 08:28:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.