Re: [MGB-TRUTH] NO Support for MGB-from a medical professional (long)

[Guest guest]

Hi Susie!

Thank you for your very helpful post (especially pointing out that other

lie by Dr. Rutledge, below!) I contacted the Moffitt Cancer Center at

the University of South Florida and interviewed Dr. Yateman (who

works with Dr. Karl, the one you used to work for), who specializes in

cancer surgery on the stomach and is a specialist in the Billroth II

procedure. Dr. Yateman tells me that my understanding of the Billroth

II is correct.

Dr. Yateman confirms that the term " Billroth II " has nothing to do with

how the stomach is cut or where the intestine is attached on the

stomach, it has to do with =how= the intestine is attached to the

stomach. In the Billroth I, for instance, the end of the bowel was

attached to the stomach.

With the Billroth II, a loop of intestine is attached to the stomach.

The Billroth II is done at the Moffitt Center after a person has had to

lose a substantial part of stomach and/or duodenum due to cancer (same

for trauma, like a gunshot wound), because it is something that must be

done after major parts of the stomach or intestine have been removed in

order to restore some sort of digestive tract for the person after this

serious surgery.

So people can have all manner of stomach configurations, depending on

what part of the stomach had to be removed for the cancer, and still get

the " Billroth II loop. "

And to quote Dr. Yateman, " As for weight loss surgery, I've

never known the Billroth II to be used to cause someone to lose weight,

but it's use for that purpose is a completely different story. "

The RNY is also now the preferred procedure even in cancer

reconstruction surgeries whenever there is enough small intestine left

to construct the Roux en Y.

Used after cancer surgery, the Billroth II is a reconstruction technique

to restore some functional digestive system to the victim.

The " Billroth II loop " allows bile and pancreatic juices to get into the

stomach. The loop is attached to the stomach, and it is the bile and

pancreatic juices that cause the damage that is specific to the Billroth

II loop procedure.

The RNY was specifically developed to avoid the problems caused by the

Billroth II. Since weight loss surgery patients have plenty of small

intestine available to be used to make the Roux En Y which avoids the

problems of pancreatic juices and bile getting into the stomach, like it

does with the Billroth II loop attached directly to the stomach, there

is no justification for using the more dangerous Billroth II loop, which

is why it was abandoned 25 years ago by all reputable bariatric surgeons

as a weight loss surgery technique.

Susie Bonds wrote:

>

> Hello all,

>

> As a member of the medical community, I feel I need to say this in

> light of all the accusations flying on this list and others.....

Oooh, strong opening there. I hope everybody read to the P.S. at the

bottom where you explain that you really are not a healthcare provider

but work in statistical data (at my office we call those folks bean

counters, but they probabably have a better name for it at a

university center. LOL!)

> Reviews of medical literature can be twisted to support almost any

> hypothesis. There are mountains of research articles out there. If

> you look hard enough - you'll find something that supports the view

> that you " want " to take. The real challenge lies in obtaining the

> consensus of all that literature.

Susie, if you can find articles to the contrary, please post them, but

unless you have some basis, I think it was premature to imply that the

studies are " twisting " the facts, and most particularly after you have

claimed (above) to be a healthcare professional, when you are not a

healthcare provider, and when surgical experts right in your own center

do not agree with what you have posted here.

I have posted what I have found so far and I have invited people to post

anything they find. This forum is not censored, so even Rutledge could

have posted something, but he has not. There has not been a single

scientific study to the contrary.

>

> The medical community is typically very slow to " bless " new

> procedures. They tend not to sanction a new treatment until several

> years worth of research and data have been collected. That's where

> we come in. We are those patients who create that data. We are that

> research. This is a part of the normal evolution in a new surgical

> technique.

There's a problem with this, Susie. The Billroth II was invented in

the 1880's by Theodur Billroth (as a cancer reconstruction technique,

by the way) and it was used as a weight loss surgery for many years

in the 20th century until it was abandoned in the 1970's because

of the known, serious dangers.

Rutledge doesn't claim it is " new, " now. He did a few months ago

and he didn't name it, because he knew what the research showed.

He didn't even name it in his ASBS paper. He called it the " MGB "

which prevented people from finding out the facts about it.

The Billroth II is not new by any means.

You can research it yourself. Just put the word " Billroth "

into any search engine on internet and look at what you

find. It has been very well studied and very well documented.

>

> For what it is worth, I believe the MGB IS a new procedure. In my

> research, I looked at the MGB, Mason Loop, the RNY, the duodenal

> switch, the VGB as well as several others. The MGB is different from

> the old loop. The gastric pouch created for the MGB is a vertical

> one rather than a horizontal one.

That is a distinction without a difference, because the Billroth II

procedure is the manner in which the intestine is attached to the

stomach,

not where it is attached, and Dr. Rutledge has now admitted he does the

Billroth II.

It is the Billroth II attachment itself that causes the problem, because

of

the " loop " nature of the attachment, that causes bile and pancreatic

juices

to get into the stomach and that is what causes the problems, not where

the

loop gets attached.

After much research on this problem, the Roux En Y was developed to

correct this problem. That what the Y limb (the piece of intestine

that looks like a y) of the Roux En Y is for -- to diver the

bile and pancreatic juices away from the stomach.

If you think that merely attaching the intestine an inch or two

inches up or down on the stomach will make that difference, the RNY

research (as well as the Billroth studies) which uses a very long

limb of intestine, would show you are wrong.

> This allows the gastric secretions

> to drain DOWN and AWAY from the esophagus.

They aren't supposed to get into the stomach in the first place and

that's the problem.

> This in turn, reduces

> acid reflux and esophagitis. It doesn't eliminate it - but it does

> reduce it.

Any acid reflux is dangerous and leads to changes in the cells of the

esophagus so that they change to stomach cells, then they produce acid.

These changes are Barrett's esophagus, a well-known PRE-CANCEROUS

condition.

And you have just proven another lie by Dr. Rutledge. He has claimed

his procedure CURES acid reflux and esophagitis (when in fact the

Billroth II is very well known to CAUSE reflux!)

POST-OPS: People feel better the first few months after the surgery

and don't have reflux and don't feel heartburn like they did before

surgery because they have a smaller stomach and don't eat as much.

Give it time. You will. Read what several of the long-term post

ops have already posted about vomiting bile and nausea.

> You have to make your own educated decision. Trust your heart and

> your head. Do your own research. If you are not comfortable with

> this procedure -- it's not time for you. Many of us were ready. I

> put my trust and my life in Dr. R's hands and have been thrilled with

> the outcome.

Why should anyone ever be " ready " to have a procedure that has a

statistically proven 20% complication rate and 1.5% death rate within

15 years after the procedure, as well as a 30 times greater risk of

cancer, just to lose weight, when there are several other procedures

available that do NOT have these specific known risks that are

specific only to the Billroth II loop?

None of the other surgeries have these specific risks that are caused

by the way the intestine is attached to the stomach in the Bilroth II

procedure, specifically.

>

> For me, I was 44 years old and weighed 283 lbs. My brother died of

> heart disease when he was 44. My father died of heart disease when

> he was 52. I had been on blood pressure medications for more than 20

> years. I knew that if I didn't do something -- I wouldn't live to

> see my 50's and 60's. So..... I did my research. I read, I studied,

> I filtered through lots of medical literature. I chose Dr. R and the

> MGB.

A person can have a Lap RNY or a LAP DS or a LAP VBG. All of these have

good weight loss, all of them have the same recovery time and scarring

as the MGB, but none of them have the Billroth II loop, or any of the

well documented, long-term risks.

>

> In medicine, NOTHING is concrete. Study. Read. Learn. Decide.

> The choice is yours.

Well said!

>

> Susie Bonds

> MGB 1/24/00

> 283/207

>

> Before I get flamed...... I am not a nurse, I am not a doctor. I

> have, however, been employed in the medical profession for 21 years.

> I have a BS in Health Education including post graduate work in

> clinical studies. Currently, I work at a cancer center in the area

> of data management and research for breast cancer, cutaneous oncology

> and gi cancer. Incidentally, we do quite a few Billroth II's

> here...... on patients from ages 20-80.

--

Kind regards,

http://www.fourlane.com/lindat

lindat @ mindspring.com (no spaces)

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ROBERT R. RUTLEDGE, M.D., BUSTED!

http://www.fourlane.com/mgb

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