Re: Re: question regarding treating (or not) for mild plagio/brachy

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I believe 12mm is considered moderate and with that I would band.

Our son was originally hand measured at 15mm, but the Starband scan

only showed 7-8mm.

Best,

Kathy, mom to 17 months, 5 months in Starband

leB wrote:

Hi there, I am in similar position trying to to decide weather to

go through with helmet for my son as well, he has plagio/tort. I find

it interesting that you were able to get your daughter scanned twice as

they would not scan mine at Hanger or Childrens unless they were making

a helmet. I thought it would be part of the measuring /determining

treatment needed. So he was hand measured at 12 mm asymetrry which i

was told was borderline/ mild...does this sound right to anyone?? I am

also interested that I keep hearing about CST as a treatment, is anyone

having luck with that?? sounds like you do think it helped? i looked at

your daughters pic very cute! sorry i can't really offer much advice as

I am in the same boat. maybe someone here can advise you good luck!

~le

mom to 5mos

WA

>

> Hello all!

>

> It's been awhile since I've posted, though I've had a few

"offline"

> conversations with a couple of you, for which I am very grateful.

>

> So my now-10.5-month-old daughter, Zia, has what I believe to

be mild

> plagio and brachy. We have done a lot of repositioning stuff and

> worked with a physical therapist who did craniosacral treatments

on

> her regularly for about 3 months. Both of these seem to have been

> helpful. We have not done a helmet/band yet, though she has been

> scanned twice: once by a Hanger orthotist on 8/10/09 and once by a

> STARband orthotist on 10/6/09. Her numbers were essentially

unchanged

> over those two months, though her head shape seemed to be

improved.

> Perhaps the numbers didn't reflect the improvement since it was

> different equipment/different orthotist; or perhaps it's just that

> we're getting more used to her new head shape; or that her hair is

> starting to cover things up; who knows!

>

> In any event, both orthotists considered her case to be

"borderline,"

> and the STARband orthotist said that she usually graduates kids

with

> my daughter's "numbers." Additionally, neither the neurosurgeon

nor

> the pediatrician are recommending a helmet, though the

pediatrician

> did give us a script "to evaluate and treat for helmet for

> plagiocephaly" back in August.

>

> I want to share her (most recent) "numbers" with you and get your

> feedback.

>

> cranial vault assymetry: 4.5mm

> cephalic index: .904

> circumference: 433.3

>

> There are other numbers, though I don't know what they are, which

I

> will provide in case they mean anything to any of you:

>

> HT: 31.9

> AP: 143.6

> ML: 129.8

> RSI: 21.8

>

> Are these truly "mild case" numbers? Is there anyone out there who

> had similar numbers who decided to treat? or not treat? I am still

> very much struggling over the decision to treat or not. We are

> scheduled to be re-scanned by the STARband orthotist on the

Wednesday

> before Thanksgiving, so we'll see where things are at that point,

> since we believe we are seeing some improvement, and want to

confirm

> one way or the other. My husband is not in favor of banding,

though

> he is willing - finally - to go along with it if that is my

decision.

> I may get clarity once I have the new numbers in a couple weeks,

> though I currently remain on the fence since treatment seems like

> such a big hassle/commitment. The STARband orthotist is nearly 3

> hours away, so it's a big effort above and beyond whatever the

> everyday effort that is involved. However, continuing to worry

about

> NOT doing anything is a big effort in its own way.

>

> Any thoughts and personal experiences with mild plagio cases would

be

> greatly appreciated!!

>

> I've posted a handful of pictures of Zia in the "Our Plagio Babies

V

> - Z." None of them are very good, but hopefully it will give you a

> sense of what I'm talking about. I've included one non-profile

shot,

> just for fun and to give you a sense of what she looks like to

most

> people, who aren't focusing on her head shape.

>

> Thanks in advance for any responses!

>

> Amy

> Chico, CA

> Zia, 10.5 months, mild plagio and brachy (I think!)

>

[Guest guest]

Brachycephaly severity is measured by the Cephalic Index (cranial breadth/cranial length), in Zia's case, 129.8/143.6=90.4%

ideal ratio - 78%

normal - 73-83%

moderate - 83.1% to 87.9%

severe - 88% and higher

 

While her measurments are severe what it really comes down to is how you feel about her head shape.  Ask yourself, " If her head doesn't get any better than it is right now, am I OK with that? " If your answer is " yes " then you can probably skip the band. If it's " no " or " I'm not sure " you might want to consider a band.

 

Molly

Nicolas, STARband graduate

Novato, CA

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Kathy Jensen <kathylorajensen@...> wrote:

Hi,I believe 12mm is considered moderate and with that I would band.Our son was originally hand measured at 15mm, but the Starband scan only showed 7-8mm.

Best,Kathy, mom to 17 months, 5 months in Starband

leB wrote:  

Hi there, I am in similar position trying to to decide weather to go through with helmet for my son as well, he has plagio/tort. I find it interesting that you were able to get your daughter scanned twice as they would not scan mine at Hanger or Childrens unless they were making a helmet. I thought it would be part of the measuring /determining treatment needed. So he was hand measured at 12 mm asymetrry which i was told was borderline/ mild...does this sound right to anyone?? I am also interested that I keep hearing about CST as a treatment, is anyone having luck with that?? sounds like you do think it helped? i looked at your daughters pic very cute! sorry i can't really offer much advice as I am in the same boat. maybe someone here can advise you good luck!

~lemom to 5mosWA>> Hello all!

> > It's been awhile since I've posted, though I've had a few " offline " > conversations with a couple of you, for which I am very grateful.> > So my now-10.5-month-old daughter, Zia, has what I believe to be mild

> plagio and brachy. We have done a lot of repositioning stuff and > worked with a physical therapist who did craniosacral treatments on > her regularly for about 3 months. Both of these seem to have been

> helpful. We have not done a helmet/band yet, though she has been > scanned twice: once by a Hanger orthotist on 8/10/09 and once by a > STARband orthotist on 10/6/09. Her numbers were essentially unchanged

> over those two months, though her head shape seemed to be improved. > Perhaps the numbers didn't reflect the improvement since it was > different equipment/different orthotist; or perhaps it's just that

> we're getting more used to her new head shape; or that her hair is > starting to cover things up; who knows!> > In any event, both orthotists considered her case to be " borderline, "

> and the STARband orthotist said that she usually graduates kids with > my daughter's " numbers. " Additionally, neither the neurosurgeon nor > the pediatrician are recommending a helmet, though the pediatrician

> did give us a script " to evaluate and treat for helmet for > plagiocephaly " back in August.> > I want to share her (most recent) " numbers " with you and get your > feedback.

> > cranial vault assymetry: 4.5mm> cephalic index: .904> circumference: 433.3> > There are other numbers, though I don't know what they are, which I > will provide in case they mean anything to any of you:

> > HT: 31.9> AP: 143.6> ML: 129.8> RSI: 21.8> > Are these truly " mild case " numbers? Is there anyone out there who > had similar numbers who decided to treat? or not treat? I am still

> very much struggling over the decision to treat or not. We are > scheduled to be re-scanned by the STARband orthotist on the Wednesday > before Thanksgiving, so we'll see where things are at that point,

> since we believe we are seeing some improvement, and want to confirm > one way or the other. My husband is not in favor of banding, though > he is willing - finally - to go along with it if that is my decision.

> I may get clarity once I have the new numbers in a couple weeks, > though I currently remain on the fence since treatment seems like > such a big hassle/commitment. The STARband orthotist is nearly 3

> hours away, so it's a big effort above and beyond whatever the > everyday effort that is involved. However, continuing to worry about > NOT doing anything is a big effort in its own way.>

> Any thoughts and personal experiences with mild plagio cases would be > greatly appreciated!!> > I've posted a handful of pictures of Zia in the " Our Plagio Babies V > - Z. " None of them are very good, but hopefully it will give you a

> sense of what I'm talking about. I've included one non-profile shot, > just for fun and to give you a sense of what she looks like to most > people, who aren't focusing on her head shape.

> > Thanks in advance for any responses!> > Amy> Chico, CA> Zia, 10.5 months, mild plagio and brachy (I think!)>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I'm not sure, but these numbers may be on the low side. My

understanding is the numbers have not been adjusted since the sleeping

on the back campaign and 78% is tough to obtain these days. I believe

low to even mid 80's are fine. I would never consider my son to have

moderate brachy.

Best,

Kathy

Molly Foley wrote:

Brachycephaly severity is measured by the Cephalic Index

(cranial breadth/cranial length), in Zia's case, 129.8/143.6=90.4%

ideal ratio - 78%

normal - 73-83%

moderate - 83.1% to 87.9%

severe - 88% and higher

While her measurments are severe what it really comes down to is

how you feel about her head shape. Ask yourself, "If

her head doesn't get any better than it is right now, am I OK with

that?" If your answer is "yes" then you can probably skip the band. If

it's "no" or "I'm not sure" you might want to consider a band.

Molly

Nicolas, STARband graduate

Novato, CA

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Kathy

Jensen <kathylorajensengmail>

wrote:

Hi,

I believe 12mm is considered moderate and with that I would band.

Our son was originally hand measured at 15mm, but the Starband scan

only showed 7-8mm.

Best,

Kathy, mom to 17 months, 5 months in Starband

leB wrote:

Hi there, I am in similar position trying to to decide weather

to go through with helmet for my son as well, he has plagio/tort. I

find it interesting that you were able to get your daughter scanned

twice as they would not scan mine at Hanger or Childrens unless they

were making a helmet. I thought it would be part of the measuring

/determining treatment needed. So he was hand measured at 12 mm

asymetrry which i was told was borderline/ mild...does this sound right

to anyone?? I am also interested that I keep hearing about CST as a

treatment, is anyone having luck with that?? sounds like you do think

it helped? i looked at your daughters pic very cute! sorry i can't

really offer much advice as I am in the same boat. maybe someone here

can advise you good luck!

~le

mom to 5mos

WA

>

> Hello all!

>

> It's been awhile since I've posted, though I've had a few

"offline"

> conversations with a couple of you, for which I am very grateful.

>

> So my now-10.5-month-old daughter, Zia, has what I believe to

be mild

> plagio and brachy. We have done a lot of repositioning stuff and

> worked with a physical therapist who did craniosacral treatments

on

> her regularly for about 3 months. Both of these seem to have been

> helpful. We have not done a helmet/band yet, though she has been

> scanned twice: once by a Hanger orthotist on 8/10/09 and once by a

> STARband orthotist on 10/6/09. Her numbers were essentially

unchanged

> over those two months, though her head shape seemed to be

improved.

> Perhaps the numbers didn't reflect the improvement since it was

> different equipment/different orthotist; or perhaps it's just that

> we're getting more used to her new head shape; or that her hair is

> starting to cover things up; who knows!

>

> In any event, both orthotists considered her case to be

"borderline,"

> and the STARband orthotist said that she usually graduates kids

with

> my daughter's "numbers." Additionally, neither the neurosurgeon

nor

> the pediatrician are recommending a helmet, though the

pediatrician

> did give us a script "to evaluate and treat for helmet for

> plagiocephaly" back in August.

>

> I want to share her (most recent) "numbers" with you and get your

> feedback.

>

> cranial vault assymetry: 4.5mm

> cephalic index: .904

> circumference: 433.3

>

> There are other numbers, though I don't know what they are, which

I

> will provide in case they mean anything to any of you:

>

> HT: 31.9

> AP: 143.6

> ML: 129.8

> RSI: 21.8

>

> Are these truly "mild case" numbers? Is there anyone out there who

> had similar numbers who decided to treat? or not treat? I am still

> very much struggling over the decision to treat or not. We are

> scheduled to be re-scanned by the STARband orthotist on the

Wednesday

> before Thanksgiving, so we'll see where things are at that point,

> since we believe we are seeing some improvement, and want to

confirm

> one way or the other. My husband is not in favor of banding,

though

> he is willing - finally - to go along with it if that is my

decision.

> I may get clarity once I have the new numbers in a couple weeks,

> though I currently remain on the fence since treatment seems like

> such a big hassle/commitment. The STARband orthotist is nearly 3

> hours away, so it's a big effort above and beyond whatever the

> everyday effort that is involved. However, continuing to worry

about

> NOT doing anything is a big effort in its own way.

>

> Any thoughts and personal experiences with mild plagio cases would

be

> greatly appreciated!!

>

> I've posted a handful of pictures of Zia in the "Our Plagio Babies

V

> - Z." None of them are very good, but hopefully it will give you a

> sense of what I'm talking about. I've included one non-profile

shot,

> just for fun and to give you a sense of what she looks like to

most

> people, who aren't focusing on her head shape.

>

> Thanks in advance for any responses!

>

> Amy

> Chico, CA

> Zia, 10.5 months, mild plagio and brachy (I think!)

>

[Guest guest]

You also need to keep in mind that these are old numbers - before the back to sleep campaign. My ortho and cranial doctor used a different standard. And, it has been previously posted a different standard used by CT and yet a third one used by orthoamerica.

My starband provider considered 91.2 percent to be the cut off for mild and did not recommend treatment for anything lower than that. CT seems to have a lower (or higher) standard than that. Having said that, my daughter graduated at 92.2 percent and I would have done another band if they would have agreed to it. My goal was to get under 90 percent.

Although others might disagree with me, I would think that around 90 percent is somewhere between mild to moderate, depending on other factors. How flat is the back of the head? Are there bulges that push the ears out? Is there extra head height at the back of the head? Do wider and shorter heads run in the family? I ask the last question because there is variability in this and some of it is depending upon genetics.

My daughter's last hand measurements put her at 91.3 percent and I consider her head shape to be mild brachy. Her 4mm of asymmetry puts her in the very mild plagio category, but it's so mild that I usually don't even refer to it or think of it.

So, to answer your question about treatment, I would agree with Molly.

Re: Re: question regarding treating (or not) for mild plagio/brachy

Brachycephaly severity is measured by the Cephalic Index (cranial breadth/cranial length), in Zia's case, 129.8/143.6=90.4%

ideal ratio - 78%

normal - 73-83%

moderate - 83.1% to 87.9%

severe - 88% and higher

While her measurments are severe what it really comes down to is how you feel about her head shape. Ask yourself, "If her head doesn't get any better than it is right now, am I OK with that?" If your answer is "yes" then you can probably skip the band. If it's "no" or "I'm not sure" you might want to consider a band.

Molly

Nicolas, STARband graduate

Novato, CA

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Kathy Jensen <kathylorajensen@...> wrote:

Hi,I believe 12mm is considered moderate and with that I would band.Our son was originally hand measured at 15mm, but the Starband scan only showed 7-8mm.Best,Kathy, mom to 17 months, 5 months in Starband

leB wrote:

Hi there, I am in similar position trying to to decide weather to go through with helmet for my son as well, he has plagio/tort. I find it interesting that you were able to get your daughter scanned twice as they would not scan mine at Hanger or Childrens unless they were making a helmet. I thought it would be part of the measuring /determining treatment needed. So he was hand measured at 12 mm asymetrry which i was told was borderline/ mild...does this sound right to anyone?? I am also interested that I keep hearing about CST as a treatment, is anyone having luck with that?? sounds like you do think it helped? i looked at your daughters pic very cute! sorry i can't really offer much advice as I am in the same boat. maybe someone here can advise you good luck!~lemom to 5mosWA>> Hello all!> > It's been awhile since I've posted, though I've had a few "offline" > conversations with a couple of you, for which I am very grateful.> > So my now-10.5-month-old daughter, Zia, has what I believe to be mild > plagio and brachy. We have done a lot of repositioning stuff and > worked with a physical therapist who did craniosacral treatments on > her regularly for about 3 months. Both of these seem to have been > helpful. We have not done a helmet/band yet, though she has been > scanned twice: once by a Hanger orthotist on 8/10/09 and once by a > STARband orthotist on 10/6/09. Her numbers were essentially unchanged > over those two months, though her head shape seemed to be improved. > Perhaps the numbers didn't reflect the improvement since it was > different equipment/different orthotist; or perhaps it's just that > we're getting more used to her new head shape; or that her hair is > starting to cover things up; who knows!> > In any event, both orthotists considered her case to be "borderline," > and the STARband orthotist said that she usually graduates kids with > my daughter's "numbers." Additionally, neither the neurosurgeon nor > the pediatrician are recommending a helmet, though the pediatrician > did give us a script "to evaluate and treat for helmet for > plagiocephaly" back in August.> > I want to share her (most recent) "numbers" with you and get your > feedback.> > cranial vault assymetry: 4.5mm> cephalic index: .904> circumference: 433.3> > There are other numbers, though I don't know what they are, which I > will provide in case they mean anything to any of you:> > HT: 31.9> AP: 143.6> ML: 129.8> RSI: 21.8> > Are these truly "mild case" numbers? Is there anyone out there who > had similar numbers who decided to treat? or not treat? I am still > very much struggling over the decision to treat or not. We are > scheduled to be re-scanned by the STARband orthotist on the Wednesday > before Thanksgiving, so we'll see where things are at that point, > since we believe we are seeing some improvement, and want to confirm > one way or the other. My husband is not in favor of banding, though > he is willing - finally - to go along with it if that is my decision. > I may get clarity once I have the new numbers in a couple weeks, > though I currently remain on the fence since treatment seems like > such a big hassle/commitment. The STARband orthotist is nearly 3 > hours away, so it's a big effort above and beyond whatever the > everyday effort that is involved. However, continuing to worry about > NOT doing anything is a big effort in its own way.> > Any thoughts and personal experiences with mild plagio cases would be > greatly appreciated!!> > I've posted a handful of pictures of Zia in the "Our Plagio Babies V > - Z." None of them are very good, but hopefully it will give you a > sense of what I'm talking about. I've included one non-profile shot, > just for fun and to give you a sense of what she looks like to most > people, who aren't focusing on her head shape.> > Thanks in advance for any responses!> > Amy> Chico, CA> Zia, 10.5 months, mild plagio and brachy (I think!)>