Vitamin K, SCD and The Low Oxalate Diet

[Guest guest]

Elaine tended to be tolerant and diplomatic when asked at lectures what

she thought when people challenged SCD and said they had done well on

another diet. She always congratulated them on their progress even when

it was not thanks to SCD.

Tamaro's study is one more validation of my ongoing objection

when people attempt to combine SCD with other diets such as the LOD and

either remove whole groups of food or add illegals in the name of

" improving " SCD. ( That said, it is understood not every person can eat

every food allowed on SCD.)

My associates and I have been tilting at windmills like Don Quixote for

the past six years when trying to convince key people that you can't

add GFCF protocols to SCD, nor those from BED and we have been equally

wary about the LOD. In each of the aforementioned, there are case

histories of children faring very badly and adults too.

On SCD there can be a difficult period at the beginning but it almost

always passes and things start to progress afterward.

Quite a number of parents who abandoned SCD to try those diets or

" combine " them with SCD returned, humbled by negative experiences and

succeeded after trying SCD again using the proper intro diet and legal

foods.

New ideas about dietary intervention come and go, but SCD has endured

since Dr, Haas originated it thanks to Elaine's body of work.

Carol F.

Celiac, MCS, Latex Allergy, EMS

SCD 6 years

[Guest guest]

I do not understand the controversy about adapting this wonderful

diet so that it can help more people than it was originally designed.

Autistic children suffer from a much wider range of problems than is

even understood to date. I am so thankful for Dr Haas and Elaine's

research and contributions, but it is only a diet not a religion. I

don't think it is objectionable to try everything humanly possible

to help your child get well; I think that is why the diet originated

to begin with.

Thank you Elaine Gottschall! You are a great roll model to all

mothers.

>

> Elaine tended to be tolerant and diplomatic when asked at lectures

what

> she thought when people challenged SCD and said they had done well

on

> another diet. She always congratulated them on their progress even

when

> it was not thanks to SCD.

>

> Tamaro's study is one more validation of my ongoing

objection

> when people attempt to combine SCD with other diets such as the

LOD and

> either remove whole groups of food or add illegals in the name of

> " improving " SCD. ( That said, it is understood not every person

can eat

> every food allowed on SCD.)

>

> My associates and I have been tilting at windmills like Don

Quixote for

> the past six years when trying to convince key people that you

can't

> add GFCF protocols to SCD, nor those from BED and we have been

equally

> wary about the LOD. In each of the aforementioned, there are case

> histories of children faring very badly and adults too.

>

> On SCD there can be a difficult period at the beginning but it

almost

> always passes and things start to progress afterward.

>

> Quite a number of parents who abandoned SCD to try those diets or

> " combine " them with SCD returned, humbled by negative experiences

and

> succeeded after trying SCD again using the proper intro diet and

legal

> foods.

>

> New ideas about dietary intervention come and go, but SCD has

endured

> since Dr, Haas originated it thanks to Elaine's body of work.

>

>

> Carol F.

> Celiac, MCS, Latex Allergy, EMS

> SCD 6 years

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I do not understand the controversy about adapting this wonderful

> diet so that it can help more people than it was originally designed.

> Autistic children suffer from a much wider range of problems

I am naturally curious about what adaptations you propose.

SCD was not written for autism. It was intended for specific gastric diseases

and it was

only about six years ago that Elaine received word from the Long Island listserv

for adults

that the diet was creating digestive and behavioral improvements among ASD

children. If

you read BTVC and the associated websites and their archivesthoroughly you will

find so

much addressed and validation for the existing legal foods and approved

supplements.

I always say people can adapt the diet all they want with the understanding that

it then

should not be called SCD as it reflects badly on Elaine's work and legacy when

there are

regressions instead of improvements. Example, countless people have asked if

they could

adda little rice or grain. It's out of the question until they are symptom free

for an entire

year.

Research will not stop.

There are other websites related to various forms of

dietary intervention. However here and now and on Pecanbread, we

do our best to maintain the integrity of SCD as it exists.

You should do everything you can to help your child but many protocols are

outside the

realm of SCD which is the rather singular focus of Pecanbread. Our mission is

stated on

the home page. We do exercise some latitude when off topic subjcts make their

way on to

the list.

Elaine's concern when she knew she would be leaving this earth, was to have her

diet

protected. That does not mean we are a cult or believe SCD is for everyone or

even that it

can cure all the members on this lis . we do our utmost to support it and

explain it

through shared experience.

As for autism, you are correct. It is a complex puzzle with so many parts and

theories.

Here we address the dietary procedures as set out in " Breaking the Vicious

Cycle. "

If you have other aspects and special interests, the moderators can suggest and

direct

you to r discussion groups where you can participate and still be on this one

too.

Carol F.

[Guest guest]

Please do not misunderstand me Carol, as I am a book carrying member

of your little cult lol.

I think that the SCD speaks for itself. The principles are simple,

and it is easy to see why it works. I often recommend that other

parents fighting autism implement the diet. However, if it were

made for autism there may be obvious differences. Just a few

examples are casein as it is a neurotransmitter and can find it's

way out of a " leaky gut " , fish (due to the mercury problem), and

apples (due to arabinose levels) may not be ideal... this is not

mentioning the oxalate problems.

I just found your remarks insensitive to those of us trying to help

our kids. It seemed you are glad that the LOD was not helpful and

unsupportive of GF/CF even though on the btvc website it states

that, " There are children who remain strictly casein free while

following the SCD ™ and still consume a well-balanced diet packed

with needed nutrients. " ...

I am sure I just mistook your passion for Elaine's work. The bottom

line is that the SCD is a great diet to heal our kids

> >

> > I do not understand the controversy about adapting this

wonderful

> > diet so that it can help more people than it was originally

designed.

> > Autistic children suffer from a much wider range of problems

>

> I am naturally curious about what adaptations you propose.

>

> SCD was not written for autism. It was intended for specific

gastric diseases and it was

> only about six years ago that Elaine received word from the Long

Island listserv for adults

> that the diet was creating digestive and behavioral improvements

among ASD children. If

> you read BTVC and the associated websites and their

archivesthoroughly you will find so

> much addressed and validation for the existing legal foods and

approved supplements.

>

> I always say people can adapt the diet all they want with the

understanding that it then

> should not be called SCD as it reflects badly on Elaine's work

and legacy when there are

> regressions instead of improvements. Example, countless people

have asked if they could

> adda little rice or grain. It's out of the question until they are

symptom free for an entire

> year.

>

> Research will not stop.

>

> There are other websites related to various forms of

> dietary intervention. However here and now and on Pecanbread, we

> do our best to maintain the integrity of SCD as it exists.

>

> You should do everything you can to help your child but many

protocols are outside the

> realm of SCD which is the rather singular focus of Pecanbread. Our

mission is stated on

> the home page. We do exercise some latitude when off topic

subjcts make their way on to

> the list.

>

> Elaine's concern when she knew she would be leaving this earth,

was to have her diet

> protected. That does not mean we are a cult or believe SCD is for

everyone or even that it

> can cure all the members on this lis . we do our utmost to support

it and explain it

> through shared experience.

>

> As for autism, you are correct. It is a complex puzzle with so

many parts and theories.

>

> Here we address the dietary procedures as set out in " Breaking the

Vicious Cycle. "

>

> If you have other aspects and special interests, the moderators

can suggest and direct

> you to r discussion groups where you can participate and still be

on this one too.

>

>

> Carol F.

>

[Guest guest]

SCD was developed for ASD because the first patients of Dr Haas had

the behavioral issues of children with autism but the term autism was

not well known during that time.

Elaine loved helping the parents of children with autism. After being

on the children's lists for a year,Elaine reread the book of Dr Haas

and realized that the children that Dr Haas had treated were on the

autism spectrum. Dr Haas and other researchers of that time did notice

that children with celiac had neurological issues. I will quote some

of the symptoms that were described in the book: picky

eaters...preffered to be alone..apathy...irritability..these children

show no joy in play but sat dully in a corner...etc..

I have been participating on the SCD children's lists for many years

and can testify that most children with ASD do improve with the

yogurt. However they have to start out with 1/8 of a teaspoon or less.

There are a few children who cannot tolerate the GOAT yogurt but any

negative reactions disappear after the yogurt is discontinued.

SCD is a diet that starts out with a limited intro diet and then you

add other foods very carefully and notice the reactions. Every person

then creates a version of SCD that is custom tailored to their

need,that is one of the great features of SCD!

Mimi

> Please do not misunderstand me Carol, as I am a book carrying member

> of your little cult lol.

> I think that the SCD speaks for itself. The principles are simple,

> and it is easy to see why it works. I often recommend that other

> parents fighting autism implement the diet. However, if it were

> made for autism there may be obvious differences. Just a few

> examples are casein as it is a neurotransmitter and can find it's

> way out of a " leaky gut " , fish (due to the mercury problem), and

> apples (due to arabinose levels) may not be ideal... this is not

> mentioning the oxalate problems.

> I just found your remarks insensitive to those of us trying to help

> our kids. It seemed you are glad that the LOD was not helpful and

> unsupportive of GF/CF even though on the btvc website it states

> that, " There are children who remain strictly casein free while

> following the SCD ™ and still consume a well-balanced diet packed

> with needed nutrients. " ...

> I am sure I just mistook your passion for Elaine's work. The bottom

> line is that the SCD is a great diet to heal our kids

>

> > >

> > > I do not understand the controversy about adapting this

> wonderful

> > > diet so that it can help more people than it was originally

> designed.

> > > Autistic children suffer from a much wider range of problems

> >

> > I am naturally curious about what adaptations you propose.

> >

> > SCD was not written for autism. It was intended for specific

> gastric diseases and it was

> > only about six years ago that Elaine received word from the Long

> Island listserv for adults

> > that the diet was creating digestive and behavioral improvements

> among ASD children. If

> > you read BTVC and the associated websites and their

> archivesthoroughly you will find so

> > much addressed and validation for the existing legal foods and

> approved supplements.

> >

> > I always say people can adapt the diet all they want with the

> understanding that it then

> > should not be called SCD as it reflects badly on Elaine's work

> and legacy when there are

> > regressions instead of improvements. Example, countless people

> have asked if they could

> > adda little rice or grain. It's out of the question until they are

> symptom free for an entire

> > year.

> >

> > Research will not stop.

> >

> > There are other websites related to various forms of

> > dietary intervention. However here and now and on Pecanbread, we

> > do our best to maintain the integrity of SCD as it exists.

> >

> > You should do everything you can to help your child but many

> protocols are outside the

> > realm of SCD which is the rather singular focus of Pecanbread. Our

> mission is stated on

> > the home page. We do exercise some latitude when off topic

> subjcts make their way on to

> > the list.

> >

> > Elaine's concern when she knew she would be leaving this earth,

> was to have her diet

> > protected. That does not mean we are a cult or believe SCD is for

> everyone or even that it

> > can cure all the members on this lis . we do our utmost to support

> it and explain it

> > through shared experience.

> >

> > As for autism, you are correct. It is a complex puzzle with so

> many parts and theories.

> >

> > Here we address the dietary procedures as set out in " Breaking the

> Vicious Cycle. "

> >

> > If you have other aspects and special interests, the moderators

> can suggest and direct

> > you to r discussion groups where you can participate and still be

> on this one too.

> >

> >

> > Carol F.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> For information on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, please read the book

> _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ by Elaine Gottschall and read the following

> websites:

> http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info

> and

> http://www.pecanbread.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Please do not misunderstand me Carol, as I am a book carrying member

> of your little cult lol.

> I think that the SCD speaks for itself. The principles are simple,

> and it is easy to see why it works. I often recommend that other

> parents fighting autism implement the diet. However, if it were

> made for autism there may be obvious differences. Just a few

> examples are casein as it is a neurotransmitter and can find it's

> way out of a " leaky gut " , fish (due to the mercury problem), and

> apples (due to arabinose levels) may not be ideal... this is not

> mentioning the oxalate problems.

> I just found your remarks insensitive to those of us trying to help

> our kids. It seemed you are glad that the LOD was not helpful and

> unsupportive of GF/CF even though on the btvc website it states

> that, " There are children who remain strictly casein free while

> following the SCD ™ and still consume a well-balanced diet packed

> with needed nutrients. " ...

> I am sure I just mistook your passion for Elaine's work.

I am sure you did! Elaine's was a first class scientist and never sat on her

laurels. She

continued her research!

You deserve to know why I sound critical although we are asked not to discuss

other diets

on Pecanbread.

GFCF allows indigestible starches which are not permitted on SCD. Dairy is not

mandatory here and never has been.( Countless members who thought they could

not go

near dairy have been very successful with the goat yogurt. The casein gets

denatured in

the fermentation process)

BED allows, among other things, green coconut water which can be harmful and

has done

damage when added to a child's SCD diet by those who believe in combining diets.

There

are healthy fermented vegetables allowed on SCD.

LOD for autism is quite new and still an unproven theory. Researching its

science raises

questions about possible consequences.

Our purpose here is to clarify and support the SCD. ) I interpret that as

following Elaine's

procedures and foods and the approved amendments for the autism version. If

another

diet is found to be more effective and not harmful I will examine it with an

open mind.

Meanwhile as they say at dances, I'll stick with the partner I came in with :-)

Carol F.