Re: How bad is it to not eat fruit/veggies?

June 18, 2010

Holly, how are you eating the fruit? Cooked, peeled, seeded, raw? Katy

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June 19, 2010

All fruit and veggies are cooked, peeled, and deseeded.

I was thinking, perhaps the reason I used to be able to handles fruits and

veggies was because I was on Humira. At the time that I started losing

tolerance, I had stopped taking it a month or so prior. Perhaps my GI was right

and I should have stayed on it.

Holly

Crohn's

SCD 12/01/08

>

> Holly, how are you eating the fruit? Cooked, peeled, seeded, raw? Katy

> ____________________________________________________________

June 19, 2010

Do you do digestive enzymes for whatever category fruits and veggies

fall into?

Mara

> All fruit and veggies are cooked, peeled, and deseeded.

>

> I was thinking, perhaps the reason I used to be able to handles fruits and

veggies was because I was on Humira. At the time that I started losing

tolerance, I had stopped taking it a month or so prior. Perhaps my GI was right

and I should have stayed on it.

>

> Holly

> Crohn's

> SCD 12/01/08

>

>>

>> Holly, how are you eating the fruit? Cooked, peeled, seeded, raw? Katy

>> ____________________________________________________________

>

> ------------------------------------

>

June 19, 2010

I take Prozymes from GI Pro Health ( http://www.giprohealth.com/prozymes.aspx ).

They are an all-in-one enzyme. I found it odd that they didn't help, especially

when things like carrots were already soft and mashed (and TMI, came out looking

the same way).

Holly

Crohn's

SCD 12/01/08

> >>

> >> Holly, how are you eating the fruit? Cooked, peeled, seeded, raw? Katy

> >> ____________________________________________________________

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

June 20, 2010

> I take Prozymes from GI Pro Health ( http://www.giprohealth.com/prozymes.aspx

). They are an all-in-one enzyme. I found it odd that they didn't help,

especially when things like carrots were already soft and mashed (and TMI, came

out looking the same way).

Is that the only one you've tried? Maybe another one would help more?

Mara

June 20, 2010

And/or, maybe you need to take more of whatever enzymes you are

taking. It can take quite a lot sometimes.

> I take Prozymes from GI Pro Health (

http://www.giprohealth.com/prozymes.aspx ). They are an all-in-one

enzyme. I found it odd that they didn't help, especially when things like

carrots were already soft and mashed (and TMI, came out looking the same

way).

Is that the only one you've tried? Maybe another one would help more?

Mara

June 21, 2010

I've only tried the prozymes. I'm definitely open to trying another brand, but

currently it's not in the budget :-(.

In the mean time, I've been fruit and veggie free (except for a little fruit

juice) for a little over one week, and have felt better than I have in awhile.

BMs are way better too. Maybe my body has taken a dislike to fiber? Previously I

had suspected fat was my issue, but since I'm doing well on a mostly animal

product diet, I no longer think that's the case

Holly

Crohn's

SCD 12/01/08

>

> > I take Prozymes from GI Pro Health (

http://www.giprohealth.com/prozymes.aspx ). They are an all-in-one enzyme. I

found it odd that they didn't help, especially when things like carrots were

already soft and mashed (and TMI, came out looking the same way).

>

> Is that the only one you've tried? Maybe another one would help more?

>

> Mara

>

June 21, 2010

Holly,

I went back to doing this as well. Totally reduced veg and fruit.

I have been watching fiber content since surgery but I just don't know- I have

to be super careful. I eat just enough fat to feel satiated... I am dairy free

though.

I have been playing with different brands of enzymes and they are helpful but

not enough. I also find that after a while my body seems to get to " used to " a

specific brand and I need to switch.

I am thinking of trying pancreatic enzymes only.

Jodi

> >

> > > I take Prozymes from GI Pro Health (

http://www.giprohealth.com/prozymes.aspx ). They are an all-in-one enzyme. I

found it odd that they didn't help, especially when things like carrots were

already soft and mashed (and TMI, came out looking the same way).

> >

> > Is that the only one you've tried? Maybe another one would help more?

> >

> > Mara

> >

>

June 21, 2010

In the mean time, I've been fruit and veggie free (except for a little fruit juice) for a little over one week, and have felt better than I have in awhile. Well, I think plenty of healthy communities of people go for a long time without fruits or veggies. Like eskimos. I think they mainly eat animal products. I'm guessing that if you feel good, then keep with it for a while, because it's obviously what your body wants. Glad you're feeling better! Cheers!Alyssa 16 yo UC April 2008, dx Sept 2008SCD June 2009 (restarted)Azathioprine 75 mg 1x per dayPrednisone 20 mg 1x per day

June 21, 2010

In the mean time, I've been fruit and veggie free (except for a little fruit juice) for a little over one week, and have felt better than I have in awhile. Well, I think plenty of healthy! communities of people go for a long time without fruits or veggies. Like eskimos. If you are doing this, like the eskimos, make sure your ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 is high - that's what the eskimosdid with their diet. . MaraI think they mainly eat animal products. I'm guessing that if you feel good, then keep with it for a while, because it's obviously what your body wants. Glad you're feeling better!

June 21, 2010

I did that for a long time. I tolerated tomato, zucchini, onion, garlic and spices ok so I stuck to that. Carrots and fibrous veggies were never good with me. I did do some juicing in very small amounts when I had good fresh vegetables. Really I just didn't worry about it. I ate organ meats (lots of vitamins) and took vitamin C capsules to compensate.

I think getting more variety in the meats you eat is important - different meats have different nutrient profiles.Kat

For around the first year or so on SCD, I tolerated quite a few fruits and veggies. However, since then my tolerances have shrunk and shrunk. Initially, it was undigested food in my stool with no other symptoms. Now, it seems that produce may be one of the causes (or maybe even the cause), of my abdominal pain. When I eat yogurt, cheese, eggs, meat, almond butter, honey, and fruit juice in gelatin, I seem to do pretty well. As soon as I try to add a fruit or veggie (that was previously tolerated), things go south. So if I were to go a long period of time with no fruits or veggies (other then a little fruit juice in my gelatin), would it be bad for my health? Would a multivitamin make up the difference at all?

Holly

Crohn's

SCD 12/01/08

June 21, 2010

Interesting that it's not just me! My intolerances didn't start right after

surgery though. I think it was more like 2 months after. I really hope that it's

something that will " clear up " with a little time.

Do you do any juicing? I was considering doing some fruit/veggie mixes. I really

crave fruits and veggies (and do NOT crave meats), especially when there are so

many tasty looking choices in the store right now.

Holly

Crohn's

SCD 12/01/08

> > >

> > > > I take Prozymes from GI Pro Health (

http://www.giprohealth.com/prozymes.aspx ). They are an all-in-one enzyme. I

found it odd that they didn't help, especially when things like carrots were

already soft and mashed (and TMI, came out looking the same way).

> > >

> > > Is that the only one you've tried? Maybe another one would help more?

> > >

> > > Mara

> > >

> >

>

June 21, 2010

I take between 2000 and 3000 mg of fish oil pills per day. Hopefully that is

enough.

I just came across this article (

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/dig14.php ) that says enzymes are

worthless and that what one really needs is to take HCl AFTER eating. Does

anyone have an opinion on this?

Holly

Crohn's

SCD 12/01/08

>

> >

> >> In the mean time, I've been fruit and veggie free (except for a little

fruit juice) for a little over one week, and have felt better than I have in

awhile.

> >

> > Well, I think plenty of healthy! communities of people go for a long time

without fruits or veggies. Like eskimos.

>

> If you are doing this, like the eskimos, make sure your ratio of omega 3 to

omega 6 is high - that's what the eskimos

> did with their diet. .

>

> Mara

>

> > I think they mainly eat animal products. I'm guessing that if you feel good,

then keep with it for a while, because it's obviously what your body wants. Glad

you're feeling better!

>

June 22, 2010

Thanks Kat! Can you tolerate more fiber these days?

I wish I could find some organic liver, but there is none to be found around

here. I'm not a big meat eater either :-(. We usually have either ground beef,

chicken, salmon, or eggs for dinner. We have some ground bison right now, but

it's rare for the store to have it. I tend to get much of my protein from dairy,

since I really like yogurt and cheese. Also some from almond butter.

I'll try not to worry about being produce-free :-). Hopefully it will get

better. I have been wondering whether I should " challenge " myself with a little

fiber before my endoscope next week. I don't want to create a major episode, but

I also wonder if the endoscope will be of any use if I'm not having the stomach

pains that were bothering me.

Holly

Crohn's

SCD 12/01/08

>

> >

> > For around the first year or so on SCD, I tolerated quite a few fruits and

> > veggies. However, since then my tolerances have shrunk and shrunk.

> > Initially, it was undigested food in my stool with no other symptoms. Now,

> > it seems that produce may be one of the causes (or maybe even the cause), of

> > my abdominal pain. When I eat yogurt, cheese, eggs, meat, almond butter,

> > honey, and fruit juice in gelatin, I seem to do pretty well. As soon as I

> > try to add a fruit or veggie (that was previously tolerated), things go

> > south. So if I were to go a long period of time with no fruits or veggies

> > (other then a little fruit juice in my gelatin), would it be bad for my

> > health? Would a multivitamin make up the difference at all?

> >

> > Holly

> > Crohn's

> > SCD 12/01/08

> >

>

June 22, 2010

yeah, eskimos aren't really the most fair comparison because the nutrient profiles of the foods they eat are unusual compared to ones available commonly in continental US. Oh, and I mean inuit. when you do try reintroducing veggies, I would recommend cooking the bejinkers out of them ala intro/stage 1. I still boil my carrots 4 hours. I can't eat them unless I puree them. Then, I water them down, and I'm totally fine, and they're great. I am also finding myself steaming greenbeans for hours. now that fresher ones are availible seasonally, I have to steam them even longer. until they are completely dark. Tonight, it's taking 3 hours but, it works! and I can't get them down proper unless I do. then it works

steamed zucchini is _so_ much easier....really, it's best to work _with_ your body as much as possible. I'm glad you are finding good clues to the puzzle of stabilizing your digestion, that are helping.

everyone's a little different. i still can't eat a little bit of raw banana for the life of me. but if I bake 'stage 3' strawberries for 20-30 mins, they go down great :)Best wishes!!

p.s. also when reintroducing fruit, I would recommend caution as well. It might be a great idea to start with stage 1 type applesauce.. cooking and pureeing

In the mean time, I've been fruit and veggie free (except for a little fruit juice) for a little over one week, and have felt better than I have in awhile.

Well, I think plenty of healthy! communities of people go for a long time without fruits or veggies. Like eskimos. If you are doing this, like the eskimos, make sure your ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 is high - that's what the eskimos

did with their diet. . Mara

I think they mainly eat animal products. I'm guessing that if you feel good, then keep with it for a while, because it's obviously what your body wants. Glad you're feeling better!

June 22, 2010

question, how do you bake the strawberries, do you take the seeds out and what temp?also, I know there is some controversy about microwaving, but I sometimes steam my green beans in the microwave since I usually eat them out of the house and it takes me much shorter time in the mornin to prepare them. They get very wrinkly. If I steamed a bunch on the stove, how long would they last in the fridge?thanks,

yeah, eskimos aren't really the most fair comparison because the nutrient profiles of the foods they eat are unusual compared to ones available commonly in continental US. Oh, and I mean inuit. when you do try reintroducing veggies, I would recommend cooking the bejinkers out of them ala intro/stage 1. I still boil my carrots 4 hours. I can't eat them unless I puree them. Then, I water them down, and I'm totally fine, and they're great. I am also finding myself steaming greenbeans for hours. now that fresher ones are availible seasonally, I have to steam them even longer. until they are completely dark. Tonight, it's taking 3 hours but, it works! and I can't get them down proper unless I do. then it works

steamed zucchini is _so_ much easier....really, it's best to work _with_ your body as much as possible. I'm glad you are finding good clues to the puzzle of stabilizing your digestion, that are helping.

everyone's a little different. i still can't eat a little bit of raw banana for the life of me. but if I bake 'stage 3' strawberries for 20-30 mins, they go down great :)Best wishes!!

p.s. also when reintroducing fruit, I would recommend caution as well. It might be a great idea to start with stage 1 type applesauce.. cooking and pureeing :)On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Mara Schiffren <alcibiades (AT) rcn (DOT) com> wrote:

In the mean time, I've been fruit and veggie free (except for a little fruit juice) for a little over one week, and have felt better than I have in awhile.

Well, I think plenty of healthy! communities of people go for a long time without fruits or veggies. Like eskimos. If you are doing this, like the eskimos, make sure your ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 is high - that's what the eskimos

did with their diet. . Mara

I think they mainly eat animal products. I'm guessing that if you feel good, then keep with it for a while, because it's obviously what your body wants. Glad you're feeling better!

June 22, 2010

woah! i thought you were supposed to take them before or during the meal. I wonder if this is true: (from the article)

"HCl (hydrochloric acid or stomach acid) mainly digests protein. When a

person starts to eat the stomach is stimulated to start producing

hydrochloric acid (HCl). Stomach acid gradually increases during a

meal. When the stomach acid gets high enough, which normally takes

about 20-30 minutes after eating, it neutralizes enzymes from the mouth

so carb digestion stops.

"Digestive enzymes from the mouth only work on carbs while the mixture

is alkaline. Therefore, if HCl supplements are taken too early it stops

carb digestion in the stomach too soon. HCl also neutralizes any

digestive enzyme supplements, so taking them is a waste. That is why it

is important to take HCl supplements 30-45 minutes after eating a meal."I would like to know what people have to say about this too!EllenTo: BTVC-SCD Sent: Tue, June 22, 2010 12:34:23 AMSubject: Re: How bad is it to not eat fruit/veggies?

I take between 2000 and 3000 mg of fish oil pills per day. Hopefully that is enough.

I just came across this article ( http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/dig14.php ) that says enzymes are worthless and that what one really needs is to take HCl AFTER eating. Does anyone have an opinion on this?

Holly

Crohn's

SCD 12/01/08

>

> >

> >> In the mean time, I've been fruit and veggie free (except for a little fruit juice) for a little over one week, and have felt better than I have in awhile.

> >

> > Well, I think plenty of healthy! communities of people go for a long time without fruits or veggies. Like eskimos.

>

> If you are doing this, like the eskimos, make sure your ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 is high - that's what the eskimos

> did with their diet. .

>

> Mara

>

> > I think they mainly eat animal products. I'm guessing that if you feel good, then keep with it for a while, because it's obviously what your body wants. Glad you're feeling better!

>

June 22, 2010

>

> I take Prozymes from GI Pro Health ( http://www.giprohealth.com/prozymes.aspx

). They are an all-in-one enzyme. I found it odd that they didn't help,

especially when things like carrots were already soft and mashed (and TMI, came

out looking the same way).

>

> Holly

> Crohn's

> SCD 12/01/08

>

Hi Holly,

Until a few months ago I had the same problem with vegetables: they

came out looking the same as when they went in. Then I started a

regimen of high-dose echinacea (5000mg a day or so) and within a week

my stools had changed completely.

I had read an article (

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2737171/?tool=pubmed )

about how people with Crohn's disease have macrophages that secrete

lower levels of cytokines than healthy people (people with UC are

shown to secrete higher levels than the norm). Echinacea's primary

effect is to increase the amount of cytokines produced, which made me

think it might offer a " theoretical cure " . The fact that it seems to

have restored my digestive abilities was not what I was expecting but

I think it may have done something to restore the normal bacteria

which are now able to break down my food more. I don't know if it

would work for you but it might be worth a try.

fiona

Crohn's 1997

SCD 1999

June 22, 2010

Check out the article at http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/veg3.php

too. It says that raw fruits and veggies aren't loaded with beneficial enzymes

like raw foodists think, and that our bodies are better off having everything

(even juice) cooked.

Holly

Crohn's

SCD 12/01/08

>

> woah! i thought you were supposed to take them before or during the meal. I

wonder if this is true: (from the article)

>

> " HCl (hydrochloric acid or stomach acid) mainly digests protein. When a

> person starts to eat the stomach is stimulated to start producing

> hydrochloric acid (HCl). Stomach acid gradually increases during a

> meal. When the stomach acid gets high enough, which normally takes

> about 20-30 minutes after eating, it neutralizes enzymes from the mouth

> so carb digestion stops.

>

> " Digestive enzymes from the mouth only work on carbs while the mixture

> is alkaline. Therefore, if HCl supplements are taken too early it stops

> carb digestion in the stomach too soon. HCl also neutralizes any

> digestive enzyme supplements, so taking them is a waste. That is why it

> is important to take HCl supplements 30-45 minutes after eating a meal. "

> I would like to know what people have to say about this too!

>

> Ellen

>

June 22, 2010

Well, this could even be right, and I take HCl, but I'm sure not going to

do this! I simply would not trust it not to burn a nice hole in my

stomach. I will continue to take mine in the middle of a

meal. I don't feel I have any trouble digesting what carbs I d

eat.

" HCl (hydrochloric acid or stomach acid) mainly digests protein.

When a

person starts to eat the stomach is stimulated to start producing

hydrochloric acid (HCl). Stomach acid gradually increases during a

meal. When the stomach acid gets high enough, which normally takes

about 20-30 minutes after eating, it neutralizes enzymes from the

mouth

so carb digestion stops.

" Digestive enzymes from the mouth only work on carbs while the

mixture

is alkaline. Therefore, if HCl supplements are taken too early it

stops

carb digestion in the stomach too soon. HCl also neutralizes any

digestive enzyme supplements, so taking them is a waste. That is why

it

is important to take HCl supplements 30-45 minutes after eating a

meal. "

I would like to know what people have to say about this too!

June 22, 2010

At 06:07 PM 6/22/2010, you wrote:

Check out the article at

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/veg3.php too. It says

that raw fruits and veggies aren't loaded with beneficial enzymes like

raw foodists think, and that our bodies are better off having everything

(even juice) cooked.

Which again confirms what Elaine said, about cooked food being easier on

our digestions.

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

Babette the Foundling Beagle

June 22, 2010

Thanks for the info Fiona! I'll definitely look into it :-)

Holly

Crohn's

SCD 12/01/08

>

> Hi Holly,

>

> Until a few months ago I had the same problem with vegetables: they

> came out looking the same as when they went in. Then I started a

> regimen of high-dose echinacea (5000mg a day or so) and within a week

> my stools had changed completely.

>

> I had read an article (

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2737171/?tool=pubmed )

> about how people with Crohn's disease have macrophages that secrete

> lower levels of cytokines than healthy people (people with UC are

> shown to secrete higher levels than the norm). Echinacea's primary

> effect is to increase the amount of cytokines produced, which made me

> think it might offer a " theoretical cure " . The fact that it seems to

> have restored my digestive abilities was not what I was expecting but

> I think it may have done something to restore the normal bacteria

> which are now able to break down my food more. I don't know if it

> would work for you but it might be worth a try.

>

> fiona

> Crohn's 1997

> SCD 1999

>

June 23, 2010

I just read something that Sally Fallon said about green drinks not being as good for you as people think because the veggies aren't cooked. Katy

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June 23, 2010

I can tolerate a lot more fiber these days. I just had a raw salad this past weekend with no problems!It does help to play around with what you can tolerate. Try different vegetables even if you think they're more advanced, they might be ok for you. I also found sauerkraut to be easy on the digestion.

For the scope, I don't think eating something that causes an episode right before would show anything different. What they're looking for is inflammation, ulceration etc, so if the pain is simply from muscle cramping I don't think it would show. If the pain you had was recent (maybe within the past few weeks) and it's from inflammation it will still probably show. Honestly the prep for the scope is bad enough, don't put yourself through extra discomfort.

As for the HCL discussion. It helped me a lot with digesting protein and fats. I took it at the start of each meal. Whenever I tried taking it after, it didn't seem to work as well and I would feel uncomfortable. I usually had mostly protein/fat meals, and fruit/carbs for snacks. I have tried digestive enzymes before and they didn't do anything.

Good luck!Kat

Thanks Kat! Can you tolerate more fiber these days?

I wish I could find some organic liver, but there is none to be found around here. I'm not a big meat eater either :-(. We usually have either ground beef, chicken, salmon, or eggs for dinner. We have some ground bison right now, but it's rare for the store to have it. I tend to get much of my protein from dairy, since I really like yogurt and cheese. Also some from almond butter.

I'll try not to worry about being produce-free :-). Hopefully it will get better. I have been wondering whether I should " challenge " myself with a little fiber before my endoscope next week. I don't want to create a major episode, but I also wonder if the endoscope will be of any use if I'm not having the stomach pains that were bothering me.