Re: MLD - my 2 cents

[Guest guest]

I do agree with Becky that lots of water and exercise is essential

post op but I might hasten to add that sometimes that is not enough

for all of us. Some of us tend to swell for longer than others. Now

you all saw my post-op pics and know that I didn't swell that much as

far as swelling goes. I thank for this a combination of taking arnica

pre and post op, doing an MLD the day before surgery and getting up

and walking around my house and doing daily exercises from day 3 and

from day 6 making a point of leaving the house every day. I also made

a point of drinking at least 1.5 litres of liquid every day. This

said, now at 4 weeks post op I still find that some of the swelling

is stubbornly sticking around. Appearance wise I look more than

decent enough to go around. In fact as we all know I have been going

out A LOT including a club one night! However people who know me well

enough can still tell I am very swollen around the cheek area and

upper lip area. I could be patient and wait a couple of months for it

to go away but as it happens I'm not a very patient person when it

comes to healing so if MLD will help (and I know it does from

previous surgeries, as well as because I use it regularly for my own

leg circulation problems) then I'm going to go for it. MLD works

better than other massages after this kind of surgery because it

involves LIGHT touches whereas other massages would involve heavy

handling which is off limits for us face wise at the moment. This

said, a regular massage is definitely more relaxing muscle wise, I

agree!! I will also add that I have always been told that in general

it's never good to have too many MLDs one after another. Something

about how it affects the liver and heart. I'm no medical expert

however. Just my 2 cents as a average post-opper:-)

Sara

> > i hate to break in here...but as a phd student in immunology i

> > couldn't help myself. please do not take this as a criticism of

> > mld...because i'm sure it's very good.

> >

> > i'm assume that by lymph cells you are talking about " white blood

> > cells " which would travel to and from lymph nodes. these " lymph

> > cells " are not confined to the skin - although there are many

immune

> > cells (such as gamma-delta t cells, dendritic cells, and nk cells)

> > which reside in the skin area. swelling would be induced by the

> > release of certain cytokines by immune cells in response to

infection

> > or cellular injury - thus inducing an inflammatory response.

these

> > " white blood cells " can also be found in tissues and blood

> > vessels...and can circulate through similar pathways.

> >

> > although i believe that mld can help promote blood flow (and thus

> > reduce swelling) - i just wanted to clarify that not all " lymph

cells "

> > reside in the skin. i also question the idea that all " lymph

cells "

> > drain into the heart...most of your " white blood cells " actually

> > circulate back to your lymph nodes (also found in large amounts in

> > your spleen). lymph nodes are located in many locations in the

body.

> > it can be said that blood flow in general leads back to the heart

> > (including circulation immune cells) - but these immune cells do

not

> > generally reside there.

> >

> > as a side note, my swelling was basically gone by day 6 with no

mld -

> > and i believe this is because of lots of water and daily excercise

> > (i.e. light walks around 15-30 minutes). i also have been

sleeping at

> > a 45 degree angle and used ice for the first week and a half.

> > although i'm sure there are many methods to reduce swelling.

> >

> > -becky

[Guest guest]

Wow! What an interesting discussion! Thanks Becky for adding your

comments. As I said, this is what my RMT friend told me. I

personally (as you can tell) know very little about the body. It's

great that we have this forum to share information. We really lucked

having a Phd student in immunology with us.

What's it like doing a Phd, anyway? I've always wondered... Do you

go to classes still, or mostly work and do research?

Thanks again Becky!

Fay

> > > i hate to break in here...but as a phd student in immunology i

> > > couldn't help myself. please do not take this as a criticism

of

> > > mld...because i'm sure it's very good.

> > >

> > > i'm assume that by lymph cells you are talking about " white

blood

> > > cells " which would travel to and from lymph nodes.

these " lymph

> > > cells " are not confined to the skin - although there are many

> immune

> > > cells (such as gamma-delta t cells, dendritic cells, and nk

cells)

> > > which reside in the skin area. swelling would be induced by

the

> > > release of certain cytokines by immune cells in response to

> infection

> > > or cellular injury - thus inducing an inflammatory response.

> these

> > > " white blood cells " can also be found in tissues and blood

> > > vessels...and can circulate through similar pathways.

> > >

> > > although i believe that mld can help promote blood flow (and

thus

> > > reduce swelling) - i just wanted to clarify that not

all " lymph

> cells "

> > > reside in the skin. i also question the idea that all " lymph

> cells "

> > > drain into the heart...most of your " white blood cells "

actually

> > > circulate back to your lymph nodes (also found in large

amounts in

> > > your spleen). lymph nodes are located in many locations in

the

> body.

> > > it can be said that blood flow in general leads back to the

heart

> > > (including circulation immune cells) - but these immune cells

do

> not

> > > generally reside there.

> > >

> > > as a side note, my swelling was basically gone by day 6 with

no

> mld -

> > > and i believe this is because of lots of water and daily

excercise

> > > (i.e. light walks around 15-30 minutes). i also have been

> sleeping at

> > > a 45 degree angle and used ice for the first week and a half.

> > > although i'm sure there are many methods to reduce swelling.

> > >

> > > -becky

[Guest guest]

Sara, I welcome your two cents! I'm curious -- do you (and others

who've had MLD) think that I can achieve some of the same effects with

self-massage? Or is this really strictly accomplishable by people with

MLD training? I mean, how important is it to know exactly the right

direction to stroke in and so forth? Just curious. L

[Guest guest]

Well Luna

Back when I had my rhinoplasty my plastic surgeon Dr. Millard taught

me how to self-massage my face. It involves a lot of light tapping on

the face and eye lids and feels like raindrops on your face or at

times, someone tickling you. Then when I had MLD I realized that the

touches were the same but that the MLD technician definitely had more

of an idea of where she needed to point the drainage to because she

obviously had a better idea of how my lymphatic system was laid out in

the body. In fact during an MLD massage they spend quite a lot of time

around your temple area and in your neck area so I'm not sure I would

be able to do that on my own. But I always think a self-massage is

better than no massage at all. And if you're in the mood for just some

self-pampering you could go for a " hard " leg and foot massage. I love

those!

I'm just so excited for you that your surgery date is finally coming.

I remember how worried we all were when you thought you wouldn't be

able to get your finances for the surgery. Thank goodness that's over

with and sorted!

I'm actually off to do my MLD today. My technician called me up and

said that she had an opening for me today so I'll let you know how I

feel and look after!

Sara

> Sara, I welcome your two cents! I'm curious -- do you (and others

> who've had MLD) think that I can achieve some of the same effects

with

> self-massage? Or is this really strictly accomplishable by people

with

> MLD training? I mean, how important is it to know exactly the right

> direction to stroke in and so forth? Just curious. L

[Guest guest]

I'm wading in a bit late to the discussion, and I'm not sure when

I'll be back, but I think MLD therapy is best left to a professional

therapist.

I had a number of sessions (I believe I was the first on these sites

to venture in this direction) - 1 pre-op and the balance post-op,

and it really helped. I was taught to do some self-exercises (and

yes, it's important to know where and how and in what direction)

just to keep things moving between treatments, as a matter of fact,

when I arrived back in my room post-op, one of the first things I

did was start doing these self-exercises.

I don't find the medical community terribly knowledgeable about MLD

therapy (my surgeon hadn't heard of it), although it's comforting to

know that this is starting to change. I found out about it through

my massage therapist (cranial-sacral therapist) who referred me to a

physiotherapist who specializes in this therapy (she's Vodder-

trained) and also teaches it.

I also have a good friend who had breast cancer surgery several

years ago and struggled with a lot of swelling in her fingers, etc.

I referred her to this therapist (she was very upset that her

surgeon knew nothing about it) and she's had really excellent

results.

It's not inexpensive therapy, and yes, you can probably do without

it (like many things in life), but if you can afford it, it's

worthwhile considering it.

More info is available on the geocities website at

http://www.geocities.com/orthognathicinfo/

> Sara, I welcome your two cents! I'm curious -- do you (and others

> who've had MLD) think that I can achieve some of the same effects

with

> self-massage? Or is this really strictly accomplishable by people

with

> MLD training? I mean, how important is it to know exactly the right

> direction to stroke in and so forth? Just curious. L

[Guest guest]

Sara,

Yes, thank goodness the money worries are dealt with and my surgery is

moving ahead as planned. I don't think I could have stood it if I'd

had to wait another six months.

Interesting to know that MLD involves such very light massage, almost

seems like it wouldn't do anything. But I will give it a try.

L