Re: Telling parents their kids are fat -- any age

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/1/2003 2:22:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,

brzezinski4@... writes:

but that report card would have had a BMI of 21 or 22 (dead normal) and the

usual string of As in Advanced Placement and Honors classes.

: We had the same parents too. Just tell me, did having A's and honors

classes (I also knew my IQ) overcome your parents telling you that you were

stupid. I still felt dumb. A BMI would not have overcome the damage evil

parents (sorry folks, some parents are not nice people) cause. It takes years

of

love from our children and in my case grandchild too, to overcome the damage.

It still creeps in though. Look how many MO people who are now normal weight,

still look in the mirror and see obese.

Just my 2 cents. I love you .

Fay Bayuk

**300/166

10/23/01

Dr.

Open RNY 150 cm

Click for My Profile

http://obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/profile.phtml?N=Bayuk951061008

[Guest guest]

Awww... what a sweet message Fay!

On the intelligence thing, I got very, very lucky. When I was 14, I

befriended a kid two years older than me named Kenny. Kenny told me that

he chose his friends and that he doubted that I would cause him problems

when I told him I didn't want to be friends with him because I would

screw his life up. He took me home to his mother, and Barbara quickly

saw me for what I was, one of the many lost kids for her to essentially

adopt and parent correctly because we weren't getting what we needed at

home. (She worked at NC State University in the math department but had

a university-wide reputation for gathering " strays " especially at

holidays... it was a wonderful house to be in, especially at those

times!) Barbara and her husband Marty loved me and were kind to me and

were forever praising me for being smart, witty, kind, etc. This caused

massive cognitive dissonance, as you can imagine, because I was getting

the opposite message at home with about equal vehemence. Eventually, I

had to decide that somebody was right and somebody was wrong, and

Barbara and Marty seemed less tied up in their own crap, more real...

and I also saw how good they both were to Barbara's three kids (Kenny's

the oldest). So I decided my parents were full of b.s. and got over a

lot of the " not smart enough " feelings in time with gentle treatment

from them.

For whatever reasons, I think deep trauma from a very early age, the

" not good enough " feelings persist to this day. Despite getting hooked

up with an awesome Jewish-grandmother therapist in 1995 (who turned out

to be dear and ancient friends with Barbara & Marty) and all kinds of

other kindnesses and successes in my life, I'm not sure I'll *ever* kick

those deep-seated feelings, and given my experiences in the support

groups for WLS folks, I'd say my experience is not even close to unique

in our population.

All I can say is, I'm fighting back. I don't think I can save myself, I

think it's too late, but I am doing everything in my power and then some

to prevent my daughter from being poisoned with the same self-doubts and

critical inner voice. If anything, Joanne might think she's smarter,

funnier, prettier than she is, though I take care to never praise her

just for the sake of it. I do follow the " rule " of 14 good things for

one correction or critical word whenever possible... I think many of us

must have experienced the opposite ratio!! Joanne is only three and a

half, but judging from her happy nature, the unsolicited praise she gets

for being outgoing, intelligent, kind, etc., it's " working " -- as much

as one can ever influence children. She is who she is and my job is to

make sure she doesn't get damaged by people with cruel agendas and

distorted world-views without over-protecting her too much.

Hang in there, dear Fay. As you say, it takes a lot of good to undo the

bad that was done to us. You give me hope that it can be done!

Hugs,

Z

http://www.ziobro.us/index.html

________________________________

From: FBayuk@...

Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 1:25 AM

To: brzezinski4@...; Ziobro; shrinkin2000@...;

Graduate-OSSG

Subject: Re: Telling parents their kids are fat -- any

age

In a message dated 9/1/2003 2:22:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,

brzezinski4@... writes:

but that report card would have had a BMI of 21 or 22 (dead

normal) and the usual string of As in Advanced Placement and Honors

classes.

: We had the same parents too. Just tell me, did having A's and

honors classes (I also knew my IQ) overcome your parents telling you

that you were stupid. I still felt dumb. A BMI would not have overcome

the damage evil parents (sorry folks, some parents are not nice people)

cause. It takes years of love from our children and in my case

grandchild too, to overcome the damage. It still creeps in though.

Look how many MO people who are now normal weight, still look in the

mirror and see obese.

Just my 2 cents. I love you .

Fay Bayuk

**300/166

10/23/01

Dr.

Open RNY 150 cm

Click for My Profile

http://obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/profile.phtml?N=Bayuk951061008

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/1/2003 1:10:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,

loriowen@... writes:

We had real recesses the kind you go outside and play tag or

hopscotch and you learned to play basketball and kickball. I think it

takes a combination of things but it is still no guarantee.

I played longer and harder and ate better and less than my skinny brothers.

By the way, all schools that tried really " healthy " had trashcans full of

uneaten food. At least with hamburgers, hot dogs, mac and cheese, they get some

protein and grains.

Fay Bayuk

**300/166

10/23/01

Dr.

Open RNY 150 cm

Click for My Profile

http://obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/profile.phtml?N=Bayuk951061008

[Guest guest]

--On Monday, September 01, 2003 6:20 AM +0000 Graduate-OSSG

wrote:

> I've heard the following slightly defensive statements in the last two

> months from parents at my daughter's daycare,

Wow you hit a nail on the head there! Telling parents their kids should

lose weight will likely elicit more of this response than anything. Just

look at how so many parents react to poor grades anymore - it's not the

kid's study habits or perhaps a learning disability, it's the stupid

teacher's fault (they're picking on my kid, the teacher doesn't like him,

the class is too hard, etc.).

I have a neighbor who's daughter is quite chubby - not fat, but headed

there if her eating habits (lots of high sugar, starchy snacks and lots of

soda) keep up. As much as my neighbor knows about health (she's an RN) it

doesn't seem to make any difference - when her daughter whines for a

cookie, there is always a " yes. " I'm not sure what to do except continual

education and public heath advertising like the anti-smoking and anti-drug

campaigns. Maybe limiting advertising of junk food and fast food which is

aimed directly at children (which is MOST of it). No easy answers on this

one, unfortunately.

Sally

298 (BMI 49)/-136/162

Goal: 145-150ish

lap RNY 7/10/02

Dr. Quinlin/Pittsburgh

[Guest guest]

I guess parents realize they are at fault. After all they are the ones who

buy the junk. I had a friend who talked about how unpopular her son was in

school and that the kids made fun of him. But she continued to buy him

soda, chips, cookies etc. Said he needed a treat. Only way she could get

him to drink milk was to add chocolate! I tried to talk to her but never

paid any attention. She always said how lucky I was that my son was slim. I

told her he didn't eat junk.

He still doesn't eat sweets. Only candy he does eat is the peanut M & Ms and

even then a bag will last months. Does eat chips but not a lot.

Janet M.

Breathe!

Re: Telling parents their kids are fat -- any age

> --On Monday, September 01, 2003 6:20 AM +0000

Graduate-OSSG

> wrote:

>

> > I've heard the following slightly defensive statements in the last two

> > months from parents at my daughter's daycare,

>

> Wow you hit a nail on the head there! Telling parents their kids should

> lose weight will likely elicit more of this response than anything. Just

> look at how so many parents react to poor grades anymore - it's not the

> kid's study habits or perhaps a learning disability, it's the stupid

> teacher's fault (they're picking on my kid, the teacher doesn't like him,

> the class is too hard, etc.).

>

> I have a neighbor who's daughter is quite chubby - not fat, but headed

> there if her eating habits (lots of high sugar, starchy snacks and lots of

> soda) keep up. As much as my neighbor knows about health (she's an RN) it

> doesn't seem to make any difference - when her daughter whines for a

> cookie, there is always a " yes. " I'm not sure what to do except continual

> education and public heath advertising like the anti-smoking and anti-drug

> campaigns. Maybe limiting advertising of junk food and fast food which is

> aimed directly at children (which is MOST of it). No easy answers on this

> one, unfortunately.

>

> Sally

> 298 (BMI 49)/-136/162

> Goal: 145-150ish

> lap RNY 7/10/02

> Dr. Quinlin/Pittsburgh

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This whole topic has gotten me to thinking. I was never heavy as a

child, occasionally pudgy but never fat. I was still embarrassed during

PE (my big bust probably had something to do with it.) I walked

everywhere or rode my bike. I weighed 108 lbs at 15 and 130 lbs when I

graduated. My ideal body weight is 130 to 135 lbs. I grew up eating

lots of starches until I was about 17. My dad had a heart attack and our

eating changed drastically. All of the knowledge in the world didn't

change my eating habits when I moved into my first apartment. All of the

knowledge in the world didn't get me skinny again. It wasn't until I had

surgery that I was able to apply my knowledge and eat appropriately. I

am still not perfect. I just wonder how much education really helps if

it isn't applied. I grew up in a generation where we exercised

constantly. We had real recesses the kind you go outside and play tag or

hopscotch and you learned to play basketball and kickball. I think it

takes a combination of things but it is still no guarantee.

Lori Owen - Denton, Texas

SRVG 7/16/01

Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce

On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 11:23:06 -0400 Sally

writes:

> Wow you hit a nail on the head there! Telling parents their kids

> should

> lose weight will likely elicit more of this response than anything.

> Just

> look at how so many parents react to poor grades anymore - it's not

> the

> kid's study habits or perhaps a learning disability, it's the stupid

>

> teacher's fault (they're picking on my kid, the teacher doesn't like

> him,

> the class is too hard, etc.).

>

> I have a neighbor who's daughter is quite chubby - not fat, but

> headed

> there if her eating habits (lots of high sugar, starchy snacks and

> lots of

> soda) keep up. As much as my neighbor knows about health (she's an

> RN) it

> doesn't seem to make any difference - when her daughter whines for a

>

> cookie, there is always a " yes. " I'm not sure what to do except

> continual

> education and public heath advertising like the anti-smoking and

> anti-drug

> campaigns. Maybe limiting advertising of junk food and fast food

> which is

> aimed directly at children (which is MOST of it). No easy answers

> on this

> one, unfortunately.

>

> Sally

> 298 (BMI 49)/-136/162

> Goal: 145-150ish

> lap RNY 7/10/02

> Dr. Quinlin/Pittsburgh

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You now - each case is really individual. My parents (dad a doc)

prepared and served very healthy meals. No sodas, fruit for snacks,

chips maybe once a month, no fried foods, no between meal eating, no

sweets. I was 125# in 7th grade at 5'2 " and 180# by HS graduation at

5'4 " . I felt so deprived that whenever I was out of their sight I ate

everything they would not allow me to have - and I DO MEAN EVERYTHING!!

I feel if they had not been so obsessive I would not have gone so crazy.

My dad is the kind of guy who never has a weight problem - he gains 5#,

he does high protein until it is gone. My Mom battled her weight until

the day she died. I have one reasonably normal sibling (at least weight

wise) and two who have begun to fight weight gain since they hit their

40s. They too ate all the goodies they could when given the chance but

they remained slender until their 40s.

I have 2 children, 32 and 28. My daughter was almost anorexic in HS as

she was terrified of becoming obese like her dad and I. Now she works

hard to keep her weight down. My son was very slender in HS and he now

carries about 20# too much. I never deprived them of goodies - I learned

in nursing school pediatrics that the majority of kids will eat well and

balanced meals if allowed their own choices. It appeared to work pretty

well in my home however, you just never know.

What is the answer? Wish I knew!!

Amber/FL

Re: Telling parents their kids are fat -- any

age

I guess parents realize they are at fault. After all they are the ones

who buy the junk. I had a friend who talked about how unpopular her son

was in school and that the kids made fun of him. But she continued to

buy him soda, chips, cookies etc. Said he needed a treat. Only way she

could get him to drink milk was to add chocolate! I tried to talk to

her but never paid any attention. She always said how lucky I was that

my son was slim. I told her he didn't eat junk. He still doesn't eat

sweets. Only candy he does eat is the peanut M & Ms and even then a bag

will last months. Does eat chips but not a lot. Janet M.

Breathe!

Re: Telling parents their kids are fat -- any

age

> --On Monday, September 01, 2003 6:20 AM +0000

Graduate-OSSG

> wrote:

>

> > I've heard the following slightly defensive statements in the last

> > two months from parents at my daughter's daycare,

>

> Wow you hit a nail on the head there! Telling parents their kids

> should lose weight will likely elicit more of this response than

> anything. Just look at how so many parents react to poor grades

> anymore - it's not the kid's study habits or perhaps a learning

> disability, it's the stupid teacher's fault (they're picking on my

> kid, the teacher doesn't like him, the class is too hard, etc.).

>

> I have a neighbor who's daughter is quite chubby - not fat, but headed

> there if her eating habits (lots of high sugar, starchy snacks and

> lots of

> soda) keep up. As much as my neighbor knows about health (she's an

RN) it

> doesn't seem to make any difference - when her daughter whines for a

> cookie, there is always a " yes. " I'm not sure what to do except

continual

> education and public heath advertising like the anti-smoking and

anti-drug

> campaigns. Maybe limiting advertising of junk food and fast food

which is

> aimed directly at children (which is MOST of it). No easy answers on

this

> one, unfortunately.

>

> Sally

> 298 (BMI 49)/-136/162

> Goal: 145-150ish

> lap RNY 7/10/02

> Dr. Quinlin/Pittsburgh

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure what to do except

>continual

>>>education and public heath advertising like the anti-smoking and

>anti-drug

>>>campaigns. Maybe limiting advertising of junk food and fast food

which

>is

>>>aimed directly at children

-----------------------------------------------------

One thing that would help is forcing school districts to remove the junk food

vending machines from on-site and NOT buying the argument that they need the

proceeds from these machines to help fund their budgets! Another would be not

allowing those schools with lunch programs to offer high calore, high starch,

low nutrient value choices on their menus. And if we can have sex education

starting in the lower grades, why can't we have nutritional education starting

in kindergarten or even pre-school? If the gov't is so concerned about the

epidemic of childhood obesity and concomitant increase in type 2 diabetes, let

them do something about it. Write letters to your congressmen, people. Lobby for

what will help the children.

Carol A

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/1/2003 3:35:27 PM Central Daylight Time,

rehab2@... writes:

> I never deprived them of goodies - I learned

> in nursing school pediatrics that the majority of kids will eat well and

> balanced meals if allowed their own choices. It appeared to work pretty

> well in my home however, you just never know.

> What is the answer? Wish I knew!!

> ---------------------------------------------------

My parents never denied me ANYthing. We had good healthful meals most of the

time: meat, a starch, a veggie, and a green salad every day for dinner for

example. But there were also deli treats always on hand, and plenty of snax and

dessert items. And we went out to restaurants a lot, as I recall. I find now

that if I go out to eat, I end up eating more than I should or even want. Both

my parents were obese. My brother was a skinny kid till middle age. I, on the

other hand, weighed 165 at 13, and just continued on up from there, with a few

" good times " of just being overweight instead of obese when I'd manage to stay

on a diet for awhile. At 20, I weighed 190. At 35: 235, and at 55: 300. When

I went on insulin, I put on 30 more lbs almost immediately and opted for WLS.

The only constant I can identify in all of this is that I NEVER felt

attractive or pretty--even tho now when I look at old pics I can see that I WAS;

or

good enuf at anything--despite having a high IQ; and I had very few

friends--whether it was bcuz fat was not " in " or bcuz I drove people away with

my anger

and temper. I was lonely and alone and lacked self-esteem. I suspect that this

is probably the case with EVERY obese or even overweight person. I think this

contributes greatly to whatever genetics seals our fate. I think " we " all feel

we HAVE to try harder, no matter what it is we're trying to do, just to make

up for our " lack " in the normalcy dep't. Put that into the mix for a youngster

and life becomes very difficult, indeed. Food can be a great comfort then.

Carol A

----------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I made a lot of mistakes and I am not trying to make excuses for my own

obesity but let's face it ... there really is a genetic predisposition for

obesity. We can't always blame the parents either. My mother certainly did

everything to keep me from getting fat. I snuck the junk foods, saved money

and even stole nickels from her purse to go to the corner store and buy

tastycakes.

What makes an 8 year old do that? I don't think we can blame the parents

and yet if someone had told me I was " bad " ... I knew the stealing was bad...

but not the desperate need to get sweets.

Yes parents make excuses, and yes there are parents who do not provide the

healthy foods. My mother was yelled at by doctors for not preparing healthy

foods. Let me tell you she did. She didn't deep fry anything. We had very

little breaded foods. We didn't have a lot of starchy vegetables.

I still say more and more is being found to be genetic. And you can't

punish or judge a child for bad genes. Anymore than you can reprimand a

child because he/she needs to wear glasses.

B

Re: Telling parents their kids are fat -- any age

>

>

> > --On Monday, September 01, 2003 6:20 AM +0000

> Graduate-OSSG

> > wrote:

> >

> > > I've heard the following slightly defensive statements in the last two

> > > months from parents at my daughter's daycare,

> >

> > Wow you hit a nail on the head there! Telling parents their kids should

> > lose weight will likely elicit more of this response than anything.

Just

> > look at how so many parents react to poor grades anymore - it's not the

> > kid's study habits or perhaps a learning disability, it's the stupid

> > teacher's fault (they're picking on my kid, the teacher doesn't like

him,

> > the class is too hard, etc.).

> >

> > I have a neighbor who's daughter is quite chubby - not fat, but headed

> > there if her eating habits (lots of high sugar, starchy snacks and lots

of

> > soda) keep up. As much as my neighbor knows about health (she's an RN)

it

> > doesn't seem to make any difference - when her daughter whines for a

> > cookie, there is always a " yes. " I'm not sure what to do except

continual

> > education and public heath advertising like the anti-smoking and

anti-drug

> > campaigns. Maybe limiting advertising of junk food and fast food which

is

> > aimed directly at children (which is MOST of it). No easy answers on

this

> > one, unfortunately.

> >

> > Sally

> > 298 (BMI 49)/-136/162

> > Goal: 145-150ish

> > lap RNY 7/10/02

> > Dr. Quinlin/Pittsburgh

> >

> > Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

> >

> > Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

And you can't punish or judge a child for bad genes. Anymore than you can

reprimand a child because he/she needs to wear glasses.

B

/////////////

,

Excellent point!

Lori NY

Re: Telling parents their kids are fat -- any

age

> >

> >

> > > --On Monday, September 01, 2003 6:20 AM +0000

> > Graduate-OSSG

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > I've heard the following slightly defensive statements in the last

two

> > > > months from parents at my daughter's daycare,

> > >

> > > Wow you hit a nail on the head there! Telling parents their kids

should

> > > lose weight will likely elicit more of this response than anything.

> Just

> > > look at how so many parents react to poor grades anymore - it's not

the

> > > kid's study habits or perhaps a learning disability, it's the stupid

> > > teacher's fault (they're picking on my kid, the teacher doesn't like

> him,

> > > the class is too hard, etc.).

> > >

> > > I have a neighbor who's daughter is quite chubby - not fat, but headed

> > > there if her eating habits (lots of high sugar, starchy snacks and

lots

> of

> > > soda) keep up. As much as my neighbor knows about health (she's an

RN)

> it

> > > doesn't seem to make any difference - when her daughter whines for a

> > > cookie, there is always a " yes. " I'm not sure what to do except

> continual

> > > education and public heath advertising like the anti-smoking and

> anti-drug

> > > campaigns. Maybe limiting advertising of junk food and fast food

which

> is

> > > aimed directly at children (which is MOST of it). No easy answers on

> this

> > > one, unfortunately.

> > >

> > > Sally

> > > 298 (BMI 49)/-136/162

> > > Goal: 145-150ish

> > > lap RNY 7/10/02

> > > Dr. Quinlin/Pittsburgh

> > >

> > > Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

> > >

> > > Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/1/2003 3:29:03 AM Central Daylight Time, fbayuk@...

writes:

> did having A's and honors classes (I also knew my IQ) overcome your parents

> telling you that you were stupid. I still felt dumb.

----------------------------------------------

And I had parents who told me I was smart all the time. And who, when I wept

bitterly that so-and-so had teased me about being fat, would tell me so-and-so

was just jealous bcuz I was smarter than (s)he. It didn't work. I still felt

dumb. And fat. And unworthy. And useless. And lonely. And, and,

and................

And I still feel dumb, sometimes. When I was working, I used to always worry

that some day my boss(es) would find out I really wasn't as smart as they

tho't I was and then I'd be fired. I always felt like a failure and an imposter.

Carol A

[Guest guest]

<<

My parents never denied me ANYthing. We had good healthful meals most of the

time: meat, a starch, a veggie, and a green salad every day for dinner for

example. But there were also deli treats always on hand, and plenty of snax

and

dessert items. And we went out to restaurants a lot, as I recall. I find now

that if I go out to eat, I end up eating more than I should or even want.

Both

my parents were obese. My brother was a skinny kid till middle age. I, on the

other hand, weighed 165 at 13, and just continued on up from there, with a

few

" good times " of just being overweight instead of obese when I'd manage to

stay

on a diet for awhile. At 20, I weighed 190. At 35: 235, and at 55: 300. When

I went on insulin, I put on 30 more lbs almost immediately and opted for WLS.

The only constant I can identify in all of this is that I NEVER felt

attractive or pretty--even tho now when I look at old pics I can see that I

WAS; or

good enuf at anything--despite having a high IQ; and I had very few

friends--whether it was bcuz fat was not " in " or bcuz I drove people away

with my anger

and temper. I was lonely and alone and lacked self-esteem. I suspect that

this

is probably the case with EVERY obese or even overweight person. I think this

contributes greatly to whatever genetics seals our fate. I think " we " all

feel

we HAVE to try harder, no matter what it is we're trying to do, just to make

up for our " lack " in the normalcy dep't. Put that into the mix for a

youngster

and life becomes very difficult, indeed. Food can be a great comfort then.

Carol A >>

Carol--Guess that does away with the theory that fat people are

happy-go-lucky extroverts. No, we're not always laughing and having a good time!

The

isolation, whether we perpetuate it or others do, is the worst part.

Mankato, MN

RNY 12/99

[Guest guest]

--On Monday, September 01, 2003 7:37 PM +0000 Graduate-OSSG

wrote:

> I just wonder how much education really helps if

> it isn't applied.

Well, it doesn't help if it isn't applied. But I think learning and

knowledge can go a long way toward helping when someone does decide to

apply it.

Heck - I *knew* how to eat right - I had been through WW a gazillion times,

seen nutritionists, etc. So what was wrong? I never, ever felt full.

Perhaps this is a genetic predisposition. Perhaps it's learned patterns of

eating. Perhaps a little of both.

But we live in a very toxic food environment today: portion sizes are

ridiculously large and growing bigger, our food is consistently becoming

more processed and contains less nutrition. Fast food and junk food is

chemically enhanced to taste good. As a society, we are less and less

active. All this combines to make us, on the whole, fatter.

I think public education and perhaps legislation to limit advertising of

junk food to kids would go a long way in at least starting to help reverse

this trend. If you look at the results with cigarettes, alcohol and

anti-drug campaigns - they didn't completely eliminate the problems, but

they did decrease. It can't hurt.

Sally

298 (BMI 49)/-136/162

Goal: 145-150ish

lap RNY 7/10/02

Dr. Quinlin/Pittsburgh

[Guest guest]

--On Monday, September 01, 2003 7:37 PM +0000 Graduate-OSSG

wrote:

> By the way, all schools that tried really " healthy " had trashcans full of

> uneaten food. At least with hamburgers, hot dogs, mac and cheese, they

> get some protein and grains.

I'm not saying they have to serve sprout sandwiches on multigrain bread )

They can have hamburgers and hot dogs and pizza - but lets not give them

poor quality, fatty meats, and lets give them GOOD vegees (ours were always

overcooked and swimming in butter). I really believe there are ways to give

them good quality, healthy food without filling the trashcans (and when my

Mom packed my lunches in grade school, my fruit ALWAYS went into the trash

-unless it was fruit cocktail ;o). Yes, you will always have picky eaters

who will only eat certain things, who won't touch a fruit or vegetable if

their lives depended on it - you can't please everyone all the time. But I

think if you offer them kid-friendly but healthy fare, most will be

inclined to eat it. I began a campaign in high school to offer yogurt in

the cafeteria - I had a petition and got enough signatures for them to add

it - and it was popular so they kept it. We also had the option of having

a large garden salad instead of the daily hot fare if we wanted. It was

nice to have those choices, even if I didn't always make the best ones.

And to add a couple of cents on parents telling their kids they are fat -

my ex-husband and father of my daughter always harped both on her weight

and mine. We divorced when she was about 4 years old, and she saw him

infrequently after that. I made sure I never commented on her weight and

tried to bolster her self-esteem as much as possible because my parents

were much the opposite and I was determined not to do the same to her. But

her father's negative words, infrequent as they were, seemed to dig in and

lodge so deeply that anything positive I said to her was met with a

dismissive " You have to say that, you're my mother. " Amazing how

destructive simple words can be. Though I'm happy to say that my words to

my daughter seem to have won out in the long run - she is an amazing,

talented woman in a field where body image is usually a big issue (theater)

and she is secure and now proud of her shapely curves.

Sally

298 (BMI 49)/-136/162

Goal: 145-150ish

lap RNY 7/10/02

Dr. Quinlin/Pittsburgh

[Guest guest]

Ok, You do a REAL good impression as a very SWEET and nice lady! If you are

an imposter...I LIKE IT! LOL

Debbie &

in Gig Harbor

(170cm medial)

ladybostons@...

http://www.cafeshops.com/copsstore

http://www.marykay.com/debbiemcneice

-----Original Message-----

From: tuesdynite@...

and................

And I still feel dumb, sometimes. When I was working, I used to always worry

that some day my boss(es) would find out I really wasn't as smart as they

tho't I was and then I'd be fired. I always felt like a failure and an

imposter.

Carol A