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In a message dated 9/17/2003 4:42:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, watnext writes:

> He also said obesity is a choice. Need I say more?

I saw that and I thought he sounded like a complete idiot. Nothing that he

suggested was the least bit new or even very accurate. He didn't want to hear

anything about hormonal research, heredity, etc. It was all " Just stop doing

xxxxx (whatever the person was doing) and you will change your life. " Well

duhhhh, if it was that easy I would have done it a long time ago and so would

everyone else here.

What a butt.

hugs,

Ann

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> In a message dated 9/17/2003 4:42:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

watnext writes:

>

> > He also said obesity is a choice. Need I say more?

Not only that, but we receive some payoff for being obese! I've been

trying to figure out what that payoff could be, but just can't come

up with one!

Tigger

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In a message dated 9/17/2003 5:35:30 PM Central Daylight Time,

tigger57ri@... writes:

> Not only that, but we receive some payoff for being obese! I've been

> trying to figure out what that payoff could be, but just can't come

> up with one!

> ------------------------------------

I've been thru the mill with this one before. The main thrust of what we get

out of being obese is that people just don't expect as much from us; we don't

have to excel at anything, try harder at our jobs, etc. We aren't expected to

adhere to as high standards as normies. And since people don't have high

expectations for us, that allows us to indulge our basically lazy natures by

just

" getting by " .............. D'ya get it now?

Carol A

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In a message dated 9/18/2003 4:19:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,

tuesdynite@... writes:

And since people don't have high

expectations for us, that allows us to indulge our basically lazy natures by

just

" getting by " .............. D'ya get it now?

Carol A

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------

Carol Glad you straightened us out on that one. I was going to write

" ROTFLMAO " but I am too angry for that. Maybe later.

Fay Bayuk

**300/166

10/23/01

Dr.

Open RNY 150 cm

Click for My Profile

http://obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/profile.phtml?N=Bayuk951061008

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What!!!???? I don't know about anyone else, but i have very high

expectations for myself. Now ya did it... I'm pissed off!!!! Is that

what he means by that? I also am NOT lazy! I work 6 days a week at a

very intense job. Arrrggghhhhh!!!!!! All this time I've been trying

to think logically and come up with a payoff and all it is is the

same old bull crap.... you're just lazy and this justifies you to be

lazy???!!!! This is NOT a good way to start my morning.

Unfortunately, I DO get it now. Thanks for enlightening me. I'm so

niaeve sometimes.

Tigger (not jumping for joy)

-- In Graduate-OSSG , fbayuk@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 9/18/2003 4:19:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> tuesdynite@a... writes:

> And since people don't have high

> expectations for us, that allows us to indulge our basically lazy

natures by

> just

> " getting by " .............. D'ya get it now?

>

> Carol A

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

> ---------

> Carol Glad you straightened us out on that one. I was going to

write

> " ROTFLMAO " but I am too angry for that. Maybe later.

>

>

> Fay Bayuk

> **300/166

> 10/23/01

> Dr.

> Open RNY 150 cm

> Click for My Profile

> http://obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/profile.phtml?N=Bayuk951061008

>

>

>

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>All this time I've been trying

> to think logically and come up with a payoff and all it is is the

> same old bull crap....

I'd agree with you there, but there are other " payoffs, " emotional ones. For

some of us, not everyone. How many of us have you heard of who were abused

as children, or as adult women? The fat becomes a layer of protection. If

I'm fat, I won't be attractive, and the men who want to hurt me will leave

me alone. That one hasn't been my issue, but I hear it a lot, especially

when these women find themselves suddenly attracting men again, and it makes

them terribly uncomfortable.

What Dr. Phil doesn't understand (and most of the diet gurus don't) is that,

outside of instances like those, most of us are obese because our bodies

don't work with insulin right. It has nothing to do with laziness, or

willpower, or pushing away from the table sooner. It has to do with

maintaining a chemical balance in our brains that keeps us on an even keel,

and carbs do this for us in ways that drugs do it for others. That's a

disease, and has nothing to do with seeking a payoff, intentionally or

unintentionally. Until the medical community can wrap its brain around high

carb, low fat = obesity for insulin resistant people, we will continue to

grow wider, and the diet industry's pockets will grow deeper, and none of us

will get the payoff we really need, which is good health.

~~ Lyn G

(I heard just the other day that the diet industry spends more on

advertising than all the food manufacturers in the country combined -- what

does that tell us?)

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<<How many of us have you heard of who were abused

as children, or as adult women? The fat becomes a layer of protection. If

I'm fat, I won't be attractive, and the men who want to hurt me will leave

me alone. That one hasn't been my issue, but I hear it a lot, especially

when these women find themselves suddenly attracting men again, and it makes

them terribly uncomfortable.>>

This is exactly right! And when " they " (that would have been " ME " ) find

themselves suddenly attractive again, or maybe for the first time (me), they

over-compensate, and become over-confident. That would have been me, as

well. I thought I was the cutest thing in my little corner of the world, and

I acted like it.

Jac

http://www.pictureitdigitaldesigns.com/

http://members.cox.net/XXXFARMPAINTS

mail to: jholdaway@...

Order a BRAT 2004 calendar today at:

http://www.basenjirescue.org/calendarcontest/

Re: Re: Dr. Phil.....

>All this time I've been trying

> to think logically and come up with a payoff and all it is is the

> same old bull crap....

I'd agree with you there, but there are other " payoffs, " emotional ones. For

some of us, not everyone. How many of us have you heard of who were abused

as children, or as adult women? The fat becomes a layer of protection. If

I'm fat, I won't be attractive, and the men who want to hurt me will leave

me alone. That one hasn't been my issue, but I hear it a lot, especially

when these women find themselves suddenly attracting men again, and it makes

them terribly uncomfortable.

What Dr. Phil doesn't understand (and most of the diet gurus don't) is that,

outside of instances like those, most of us are obese because our bodies

don't work with insulin right. It has nothing to do with laziness, or

willpower, or pushing away from the table sooner. It has to do with

maintaining a chemical balance in our brains that keeps us on an even keel,

and carbs do this for us in ways that drugs do it for others. That's a

disease, and has nothing to do with seeking a payoff, intentionally or

unintentionally. Until the medical community can wrap its brain around high

carb, low fat = obesity for insulin resistant people, we will continue to

grow wider, and the diet industry's pockets will grow deeper, and none of us

will get the payoff we really need, which is good health.

~~ Lyn G

(I heard just the other day that the diet industry spends more on

advertising than all the food manufacturers in the country combined -- what

does that tell us?)

Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

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Amen to that!

Sharon Ann Merritt

Design With Merritt

http://www.DesignWithMerritt.com

http://www.eclecticacademy.com

> unintentionally. Until the medical community can wrap its brain

> around high

> carb, low fat = obesity for insulin resistant people, we will continue to

> grow wider, and the diet industry's pockets will grow deeper, and

> none of us

> will get the payoff we really need, which is good health.

>

> ~~ Lyn G

> (I heard just the other day that the diet industry spends more on

> advertising than all the food manufacturers in the country

> combined -- what

> does that tell us?)

Sharon Ann Merritt

Design With Merritt

http://www.DesignWithMerritt.com

http://www.eclecticacademy.com

> Re: Re: Dr. Phil.....

>

>

> >All this time I've been trying

> > to think logically and come up with a payoff and all it is is the

> > same old bull crap....

>

> I'd agree with you there, but there are other " payoffs, "

> emotional ones. For

> some of us, not everyone. How many of us have you heard of who were abused

> as children, or as adult women? The fat becomes a layer of protection. If

> I'm fat, I won't be attractive, and the men who want to hurt me will leave

> me alone. That one hasn't been my issue, but I hear it a lot, especially

> when these women find themselves suddenly attracting men again,

> and it makes

> them terribly uncomfortable.

>

> What Dr. Phil doesn't understand (and most of the diet gurus

> don't) is that,

> outside of instances like those, most of us are obese because our bodies

> don't work with insulin right. It has nothing to do with laziness, or

> willpower, or pushing away from the table sooner. It has to do with

> maintaining a chemical balance in our brains that keeps us on an

> even keel,

> and carbs do this for us in ways that drugs do it for others. That's a

> disease, and has nothing to do with seeking a payoff, intentionally or

> unintentionally. Until the medical community can wrap its brain

> around high

> carb, low fat = obesity for insulin resistant people, we will continue to

> grow wider, and the diet industry's pockets will grow deeper, and

> none of us

> will get the payoff we really need, which is good health.

>

> ~~ Lyn G

> (I heard just the other day that the diet industry spends more on

> advertising than all the food manufacturers in the country

> combined -- what

> does that tell us?)

>

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

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And this is sooo far from the truth. I had higher expectations

of myself then most people I knew. I had to fight harder to get a job,

keep a job, prove that I could do a job, etc. I realize a lot of people

associate being fat as being lazy. If they only knew how much harder the

body has to work with all of that extra weight on. The heart and lungs

have to work harder, the muscles have to work harder, the bones are

completely stressed out, well, you get the picture.

I am one of those people who was convinced that I used the weight

to keep men away. I guarantee you that it did more then keep men away.

It kept everyone away. I wanted a life, a career, something more then

just being a wife and a mother. But it was so much more then that. No

amount of willpower, determination, diets could ever get me back to where

I wanted to be. I tried so many things. I have the insulin resistent

type of diabetes, undiagnosed hyperthyroidism, and a lack of sufficient

serzone in the brain. Now ya think that might have had a contribruting

factor? You bet.

Lori Owen - Denton, Texas

SRVG 7/16/01

Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 04:18:53 EDT tuesdynite@... writes:

> I've been thru the mill with this one before. The main thrust of

> what we get

> out of being obese is that people just don't expect as much from us;

> we don't

> have to excel at anything, try harder at our jobs, etc. We aren't

> expected to

> adhere to as high standards as normies. And since people don't have

> high

> expectations for us, that allows us to indulge our basically lazy

> natures by just

> " getting by " .............. D'ya get it now?

>

> Carol A

>

>

>

>

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--On Thursday, September 18, 2003 4:20 PM +0000

Graduate-OSSG wrote:

> I've been thru the mill with this one before. The main thrust of what we

> get out of being obese is that people just don't expect as much from us;

> we don't have to excel at anything, try harder at our jobs, etc. We

> aren't expected to adhere to as high standards as normies. And since

> people don't have high expectations for us, that allows us to indulge

> our basically lazy natures by just " getting by " .............. D'ya get

> it now?

Great explanation Carol - I had wondered about this myself and now I

understand. But I sure don't agree with it! :o) It may be the way it is

in some cases, but I know a lot of obese people who don't fit this profile

(and several thin ones who do) - and it certainly wasn't mine. I have

always been a very driven, active, hard-working person and it didn't really

change when I was obese, just slowed me down a little. I was constantly

referred to as " superwoman " by my friends because I did so much (still am).

As a morbidly obese woman, I was involved in numerous clubs and

organizations, held office in many of them, went back to college (a very

prestigious, competitive college) and graduated recently with honors. I

was well respected in my job and known as a hard worker. I didn't expect

any less of myself because I was heavy, and refused to let others expect

less of me. Unless, of course, they expected me to run ;o)

About the *only* area in my life that I could not achieve in, was not

successful in - and it wasn't for trying again and again - was my weight.

It wasn't a choice for me to be obeseI, any more than it was my choice to

be born a woman. It was, however, my choice to have surgery to remedy the

situation. And I refuse to let anyone belittle that. I see my choice to

have WLS not as the easy way out (because it is definitely not easy in any

sense of the word) but as the successful way.

Thanks for indulging my little rant ;o)

Sally

298 (BMI 49)/-139/159

Goal: 145-150ish

lap RNY 7/10/02

Dr. Quinlin/Pittsburgh

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--On Thursday, September 18, 2003 4:20 PM +0000

Graduate-OSSG wrote:

> This is exactly right! And when " they " (that would have been " ME " ) find

> themselves suddenly attractive again, or maybe for the first time (me),

> they over-compensate, and become over-confident. That would have been me,

> as well. I thought I was the cutest thing in my little corner of the

> world, and I acted like it.

Nothing wrong with that - After all, they say sex appeal is less about

looks and more about attitude than anything! :o)

Sally

298 (BMI 49)/-139/159

Goal: 145-150ish

lap RNY 7/10/02

Dr. Quinlin/Pittsburgh

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Yeah, how silly of me. I keep forgetting about that one.

Barbara Jean

Re: Re: Dr. Phil.....

> In a message dated 9/17/2003 5:35:30 PM Central Daylight Time,

> tigger57ri@... writes:

>

> > Not only that, but we receive some payoff for being obese! I've been

> > trying to figure out what that payoff could be, but just can't come

> > up with one!

> > ------------------------------------

>

> I've been thru the mill with this one before. The main thrust of what we

get

> out of being obese is that people just don't expect as much from us; we

don't

> have to excel at anything, try harder at our jobs, etc. We aren't expected

to

> adhere to as high standards as normies. And since people don't have high

> expectations for us, that allows us to indulge our basically lazy natures

by just

> " getting by " .............. D'ya get it now?

>

> Carol A

>

>

>

>

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It makes me so sad that someone like Dr. Phil is so uninformed and

close-minded about obesity. He is hurting a lot of people. Most of us on

the list are being negatively effected in some way, and we have a wonderful

support group in this list, and most of us have support groups we attend

near our homes. Some of us are in therapy, some of us are on

antidepressants. Many of us have done extensive research on the topic and

have a whole lot of experience in dealing with it.

I can hardly bear to think about the people who don't have all this and are

exposed to his ignorance and self-righteousness. It is truly and abuse of

power.

Barbara Jean

Re: Re: Dr. Phil.....

> And this is sooo far from the truth. I had higher expectations

> of myself then most people I knew. I had to fight harder to get a job,

> keep a job, prove that I could do a job, etc. I realize a lot of people

> associate being fat as being lazy. If they only knew how much harder the

> body has to work with all of that extra weight on. The heart and lungs

> have to work harder, the muscles have to work harder, the bones are

> completely stressed out, well, you get the picture.

> I am one of those people who was convinced that I used the weight

> to keep men away. I guarantee you that it did more then keep men away.

> It kept everyone away. I wanted a life, a career, something more then

> just being a wife and a mother. But it was so much more then that. No

> amount of willpower, determination, diets could ever get me back to where

> I wanted to be. I tried so many things. I have the insulin resistent

> type of diabetes, undiagnosed hyperthyroidism, and a lack of sufficient

> serzone in the brain. Now ya think that might have had a contribruting

> factor? You bet.

> Lori Owen - Denton, Texas

> SRVG 7/16/01

> Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce

>

> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 04:18:53 EDT tuesdynite@... writes:

> > I've been thru the mill with this one before. The main thrust of

> > what we get

> > out of being obese is that people just don't expect as much from us;

> > we don't

> > have to excel at anything, try harder at our jobs, etc. We aren't

> > expected to

> > adhere to as high standards as normies. And since people don't have

> > high

> > expectations for us, that allows us to indulge our basically lazy

> > natures by just

> > " getting by " .............. D'ya get it now?

> >

> > Carol A

> >

> >

> >

> >

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I wasn't saying this is the TRUTH; just that it has long been an " official "

explanation by the " experts " as to what " we " get out of being obese. I too was

superwoman: raising 4 daughters (the 1st 3 born within 3 years) while working

12 and 14 hours a day, going to night school working on a degree in fluid

power, serving on the local school board, chauffeuring the kids to innumerable

" extracurricular " activities--and with a husband from the " old country " who

didn't believe that the man of the house should pitch in and help with anything.

He

brought home a paycheck and that was ALL he did. I always got rapid

promotions at my jobs, but had a knack for hooking up with companies that either

moved

out of state, or ran into financial trouble and laid off half their workforce,

etc. Don't think I ever managed to stay in one place more than 6 or 7 years,

and even tho those things were beyond my control, it started to FEEL like it

was somehow my fault. And whatever expectations OTHERS may have had for me, I

generally believed that becuz of my weight, I had to try harder, work longer,

be smarter, more creative, productive, whatever. Deep down inside, I never felt

that I was quite good enuf. For anyone or anything.

Carol A

----------------------------------

In a message dated 9/18/2003 11:51:53 AM Central Daylight Time,

sstewart@... writes:

> Graduate-OSSG wrote:

>

> >I've been thru the mill with this one before. The main thrust of what we

> >get out of being obese is that people just don't expect as much from us;

> >we don't have to excel at anything, try harder at our jobs, etc. We

> >aren't expected to adhere to as high standards as normies. And since

> >people don't have high expectations for us, that allows us to indulge

> >our basically lazy natures by just " getting by " .............. D'ya get

> >it now?

>

> Great explanation Carol - I had wondered about this myself and now I

> understand. But I sure don't agree with it! :o) It may be the way it is

> in some cases, but I know a lot of obese people who don't fit this profile

> (and several thin ones who do) - and it certainly wasn't mine. I have

> always been a very driven, active, hard-working person and it didn't really

> change when I was obese, just slowed me down a little. I was constantly

> referred to as " superwoman " by my friends because I did so much (still am).

> As a morbidly obese woman, I was involved in numerous clubs and

> organizations, held office in many of them, went back to college (a very

> prestigious, competitive college) and graduated recently with honors. I

> was well respected in my job and known as a hard worker. I didn't expect

> any less of myself because I was heavy, and refused to let others expect

> less of me.

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So, you think he's taking the challenge?

Lori Owen - Denton, Texas

SRVG 7/16/01

Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:02:12 +0000 nosophist1@... writes:

> It just gets better and better (sarcasm!). Monday starts his " Weight

> Loss

> Challenge " .

>

>

http://www.drphil.com/weightloss/weightloss_show.jhtml?contentId=2001_wlc

..xml

>

> --

> Amy

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In a message dated 9/17/2003 5:35:40 PM Central Standard Time,

tigger57ri@... writes:

He also said obesity is a choice. Need I say more?

Not only that, but we receive some payoff for being obese! I've been

trying to figure out what that payoff could be, but just can't come

up with one!

Not being able to wipe my backside is a real turn on for me!!

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--On Friday, September 19, 2003 1:34 PM +0000 Graduate-OSSG

wrote:

> I wasn't saying this is the TRUTH; just that it has long been an

> " official " explanation by the " experts " as to what " we " get out of being

> obese.

Carol - I totally got that - I knew those weren't your words - sorry if it

came across otherwise. I was just saying it doesn't seem to hold true - in

my case, or yours, or many others I know of. It just irritates me when

these smug psychologists think they have some complex issue all figured out

with a simple proclamation like this. Just because it's true in some of

the cases doesn't mean it's true in all of them (or even, maybe, most of

them!).

Sally

298 (BMI 49)/-139/159

Goal: 145-150ish

lap RNY 7/10/02

Dr. Quinlin/Pittsburgh

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