immunology for my buddies :o)

[Guest guest]

OK - so this post won't really be about oral surgery directly...but as

this lymphatic topic came up and there were some questions I figured

I'd share some of my hard earned knowledge.

As a PhD in immunology, we were required to take two additional years

of classes and rotate in three or more labs. At the end of the first

year, you pick whatever lab you want to stay in. At the end of the

second year, you have to pass a qualifying exam and defend your thesis

proposal (your plan for the next couple of years). At this point you

have earned a master's degree (my mom had me apply for one so she can

hang it on the wall...too cute...I tried to tell her it was kind of

anticlimatic since I still had years to go...but there's no arguing

with a mom!) Unfortunately for me, my mentor decided to move back to

Germany last year - so I had to pick a new mentor after finishing my

qualifying exam. It set me back at least 6 months to a year - and I

don't have a clear project yet. sigh. And my orginal mentor actually

didn't leave yet...he keeps pushing it back. another sigh.

Anyway...I'm going to try to explain the basics so that you can

understand better why you're swollen and why MLD may work (although

I'm no expert on that topic). I'm sorry if it's more complicated than

it has to be - that's the hardest thing for me right now is

simplifying what I spend all my time thinking abou )

OK - Immunology for Oral Surgery Patients 101

You can think of your immune system has having two components - these

are called innate and adaptive. Your innate immune system consists of

a myraid of cells that are constantly surveying your body, looking for

infection, damage, or tumors. These " bad " things can be identified by

these innate immune cells by their receptors (think of little hands

that would reach out and sample the enviornment). The receptors on

innate immune cells don't really change much (their stuck with what

they got). Innate cells can then recruit other cells to the area of

infection/damage/tumor by sending out signals. To get more cells to

the area quicker, certain factors are released that promote increased

blood flow (leading to swelling).

So in our case, a surgeon has cut through our gums and usually sawed

through our jaws. This leads to many damaged and dead cells (which

would also send out their own signals) - that then get recognized by

these innate immune cells that are constantly surveying our bodies for

this kind of thing. These cells say " WOA - what the hell happened

here? We better call our buddies (and other fun stuff) to help clean

this up! " And so you get increased blood flow to the area. On top of

this, your body wants to keep this area of " damage " localized - in

essence so that your whole body doesn't become " damaged. " This leads

to the swelling that you see. Additionally, the surgeon has

manipulated (not very gently) lots of muscles in the area - that can

also lead to some damage. As you probably know, when tissues are

damaged, red blood cells can collect in certain areas, leading to

bruising. So you got swelling and bruising.

Now, your other branch of the immune system, the adaptive immune

system, consists of your B and T cells. These have been talked about

quite frequently in the media in regards to immuno-supressed patients

(such as AIDS patients). These cells actually have receptors that

specifically recognize the " bad things " (we call them antigens) - and

therefore are very different from their sister cells. What's amazing

is that these cells can generate millions of different combinations of

receptors to specifically recognize almost anything you come in

contact with. It's really kind of crazy!!! (Alright - I'm a nerd).

Your B cells (or bone marrow cells) are responsible for producing

antibodies. Your T cells (or thymus cells) are responsible for

activating B cells and for selectively killing " bad " cells. T and B

cells generally hang out in your lymph nodes.

OK - so your blood is flowing through your body - and in this blood is

your red blood cells and lymphocyte (or white blood cells or lymph

cells or immune cells) and some other stuff we won't worry about. Red

blood cells for me are pretty boring - I don't study them much. The

point is that all these cells are kind of mixed together...when you

donate blood all these cells come out at the same time. If you were

an autologous blood donor - you would just get the same exact pint

that you donated. But...if you receive a blood donation from someone

else, they actually can separate the red blood cells from the

lymphocytes (which do appear to be clearish or white...and this is

called the buffy coat) and only give you red blood cells to limit the

chance of unwanted interactions.

So your red blood cells and lymphocytes are being pumped around your

body through blood vessels. In addition to being pumped through your

heart, your blood frequents tons of other organs, including your lymph

nodes and spleen. So here's the deal. If one of your innate immune

cells recognizes something bad - it will call it's friends and whatnot

to the area. In addition, it may also be picked up by the blood flow

and travel to your lymph node where it can interact with T cells. The

innate cell " shakes hands " with the T cells (through receptors) until

a very good match is found...then that T cells replicates a bunch of

times. This makes a bunch of T cells very specific and reactive to a

certain kind of damage.

OK - so why do people dread hearing that cancer has been spread to the

lymph node? Well, as you may expect, there's lots of cell division

going on in the lymph node. This is your immune system power house if

you will. So if you have a tumor, a bunch of different things change

inside the lymph node. You can stop producing your good immune cells

that would recognize bad things happening in your body (including

cancerous cells). Additionally, these cells already have the ability

to divide very rapidly...which is very bad when you think of the

expansion of a bad thing like a tumor. If you think of it though, if

one cell (that has a tumorogenic potential) breaks off from a tumor

and travels through the blood flow - it most likely will end up in the

lymph node. If your body has undergone changes which does not allow

this cell to be killed, this cell can then take up shop and start

making other little tumor cells. You can also imagine that since

blood readily flows through lymph nodes to other parts of the body, if

you had little cancer seedlings in a lymph node they could very well

be transported to different parts of the body. Not good.

What you can be happy about is that your body would normally see

unhappy cells (precancerous) and attack them. I mean, you're making

cells all the time and being exposed to all sorts of environmental

damage...you would think you would have some sort of protection...and

you do. Cancers usually arise after multiple hits - that is - you

have suffered not one bad chance action but multiple...so much so that

your back-up systems also fail.

Alright then. So in my humble opinion (and trust me...I'm only a

graduate _student_. I spend much of my days surrounded by people who

make me feel like the stupidest person on earth...) MLD would probably

help swelling subside because it stimulates blood flow back out of the

area of swelling. I could imagine it helping to drain (usually back

to the lymph node and eventually the heart) the fluid from the

localized area. Sounds pretty harmless to me. I'm not sure I'd pay

to have someone do it though...just because if I waited my body would

do the same thing for free...and I'm a poor graduate student )

OK - I'm done rambling for now. Be prepared...I'm quizzing you all

next week! jk

-becky

[Guest guest]

Yuck. Pardon my French, but there are more ways to get screwed in

academia than if you're a board sitting beside a kitchen cabinet.

I had a friend who was a doctoral student at an Atlanta university

(much respected) whose advisor actually allowed him to invest years

in a thesis when the advisor knew someone else was on track to

publish first. On an obscure medieval diary held in England. Nasty,

Nasty, Nasty. Hope the bad man has had a lifetime of dental

extractions, root canals and other Difficult Procedures. With no

benefit of immunology.

Baby -- I gotta read this thing through three or four more times to

figure out what you're saying. I only know that the MLD made me look

prettier, which is not an easy task.

But I offer a little submission: Is it possible that herein lies the

germ of a possible text for an academic thesis? There are folks

(demonstrable numbers on these sites) who want to know, and would

welcome the translations. Surely academia can reach out that much to

the poor unwashed. Or even the non-poor and washed.

I'm willing to translate my suggestion into a more acceptable

version for your academic buds, if I can figure it all out and make

the language suitable.

Thanks.

C.

> OK - so this post won't really be about oral surgery

directly...but as

> this lymphatic topic came up and there were some questions I

figured

> I'd share some of my hard earned knowledge.

>

> As a PhD in immunology, we were required to take two additional

years

> of classes and rotate in three or more labs. At the end of the

first

> year, you pick whatever lab you want to stay in. At the end of the

> second year, you have to pass a qualifying exam and defend your

thesis

> proposal (your plan for the next couple of years). At this point

you

> have earned a master's degree (my mom had me apply for one so she

can

> hang it on the wall...too cute...I tried to tell her it was kind of

> anticlimatic since I still had years to go...but there's no arguing

> with a mom!) Unfortunately for me, my mentor decided to move back

to

> Germany last year - so I had to pick a new mentor after finishing

my

> qualifying exam. It set me back at least 6 months to a year - and

I

> don't have a clear project yet. sigh. And my orginal mentor

actually

> didn't leave yet...he keeps pushing it back. another sigh.

>

> Anyway...I'm going to try to explain the basics so that you can

> understand better why you're swollen and why MLD may work (although

> I'm no expert on that topic). I'm sorry if it's more complicated

than

> it has to be - that's the hardest thing for me right now is

> simplifying what I spend all my time thinking abou )

>

> OK - Immunology for Oral Surgery Patients 101

>

> You can think of your immune system has having two components -

these

> are called innate and adaptive. Your innate immune system

consists of

> a myraid of cells that are constantly surveying your body, looking

for

> infection, damage, or tumors. These " bad " things can be

identified by

> these innate immune cells by their receptors (think of little

hands

> that would reach out and sample the enviornment). The receptors on

> innate immune cells don't really change much (their stuck with what

> they got). Innate cells can then recruit other cells to the area

of

> infection/damage/tumor by sending out signals. To get more cells

to

> the area quicker, certain factors are released that promote

increased

> blood flow (leading to swelling).

>

> So in our case, a surgeon has cut through our gums and usually

sawed

> through our jaws. This leads to many damaged and dead cells (which

> would also send out their own signals) - that then get recognized

by

> these innate immune cells that are constantly surveying our bodies

for

> this kind of thing. These cells say " WOA - what the hell happened

> here? We better call our buddies (and other fun stuff) to help

clean

> this up! " And so you get increased blood flow to the area. On

top of

> this, your body wants to keep this area of " damage " localized - in

> essence so that your whole body doesn't become " damaged. " This

leads

> to the swelling that you see. Additionally, the surgeon has

> manipulated (not very gently) lots of muscles in the area - that

can

> also lead to some damage. As you probably know, when tissues are

> damaged, red blood cells can collect in certain areas, leading to

> bruising. So you got swelling and bruising.

>

> Now, your other branch of the immune system, the adaptive immune

> system, consists of your B and T cells. These have been talked

about

> quite frequently in the media in regards to immuno-supressed

patients

> (such as AIDS patients). These cells actually have receptors that

> specifically recognize the " bad things " (we call them antigens) -

and

> therefore are very different from their sister cells. What's

amazing

> is that these cells can generate millions of different

combinations of

> receptors to specifically recognize almost anything you come in

> contact with. It's really kind of crazy!!! (Alright - I'm a

nerd).

> Your B cells (or bone marrow cells) are responsible for producing

> antibodies. Your T cells (or thymus cells) are responsible for

> activating B cells and for selectively killing " bad " cells. T and

B

> cells generally hang out in your lymph nodes.

>

> OK - so your blood is flowing through your body - and in this

blood is

> your red blood cells and lymphocyte (or white blood cells or lymph

> cells or immune cells) and some other stuff we won't worry about.

Red

> blood cells for me are pretty boring - I don't study them much.

The

> point is that all these cells are kind of mixed together...when you

> donate blood all these cells come out at the same time. If you

were

> an autologous blood donor - you would just get the same exact pint

> that you donated. But...if you receive a blood donation from

someone

> else, they actually can separate the red blood cells from the

> lymphocytes (which do appear to be clearish or white...and this is

> called the buffy coat) and only give you red blood cells to limit

the

> chance of unwanted interactions.

>

> So your red blood cells and lymphocytes are being pumped around

your

> body through blood vessels. In addition to being pumped through

your

> heart, your blood frequents tons of other organs, including your

lymph

> nodes and spleen. So here's the deal. If one of your innate

immune

> cells recognizes something bad - it will call it's friends and

whatnot

> to the area. In addition, it may also be picked up by the blood

flow

> and travel to your lymph node where it can interact with T cells.

The

> innate cell " shakes hands " with the T cells (through receptors)

until

> a very good match is found...then that T cells replicates a bunch

of

> times. This makes a bunch of T cells very specific and reactive

to a

> certain kind of damage.

>

> OK - so why do people dread hearing that cancer has been spread to

the

> lymph node? Well, as you may expect, there's lots of cell division

> going on in the lymph node. This is your immune system power

house if

> you will. So if you have a tumor, a bunch of different things

change

> inside the lymph node. You can stop producing your good immune

cells

> that would recognize bad things happening in your body (including

> cancerous cells). Additionally, these cells already have the

ability

> to divide very rapidly...which is very bad when you think of the

> expansion of a bad thing like a tumor. If you think of it though,

if

> one cell (that has a tumorogenic potential) breaks off from a tumor

> and travels through the blood flow - it most likely will end up in

the

> lymph node. If your body has undergone changes which does not

allow

> this cell to be killed, this cell can then take up shop and start

> making other little tumor cells. You can also imagine that since

> blood readily flows through lymph nodes to other parts of the

body, if

> you had little cancer seedlings in a lymph node they could very

well

> be transported to different parts of the body. Not good.

>

> What you can be happy about is that your body would normally see

> unhappy cells (precancerous) and attack them. I mean, you're

making

> cells all the time and being exposed to all sorts of environmental

> damage...you would think you would have some sort of

protection...and

> you do. Cancers usually arise after multiple hits - that is - you

> have suffered not one bad chance action but multiple...so much so

that

> your back-up systems also fail.

>

> Alright then. So in my humble opinion (and trust me...I'm only a

> graduate _student_. I spend much of my days surrounded by people

who

> make me feel like the stupidest person on earth...) MLD would

probably

> help swelling subside because it stimulates blood flow back out of

the

> area of swelling. I could imagine it helping to drain (usually

back

> to the lymph node and eventually the heart) the fluid from the

> localized area. Sounds pretty harmless to me. I'm not sure I'd

pay

> to have someone do it though...just because if I waited my body

would

> do the same thing for free...and I'm a poor graduate student )

>

> OK - I'm done rambling for now. Be prepared...I'm quizzing you all

> next week! jk

>

> -becky

[Guest guest]

Oh Cammie, just have a glass of red before you read it through! Allow the

grape gods to give you some academic and reddish spectacles!

How about these: o-o

BTW I thought it was a very good simple version of it all! Good jorb! (Must see

homestarrunner.com)

Mia

> > OK - so this post won't really be about oral surgery

> directly...but as

> > this lymphatic topic came up and there were some questions I

> figured

> > I'd share some of my hard earned knowledge.

> >

> > As a PhD in immunology, we were required to take two additional

> years

> > of classes and rotate in three or more labs. At the end of the

> first

> > year, you pick whatever lab you want to stay in. At the end of the

> > second year, you have to pass a qualifying exam and defend your

> thesis

> > proposal (your plan for the next couple of years). At this point

> you

> > have earned a master's degree (my mom had me apply for one so she

> can

> > hang it on the wall...too cute...I tried to tell her it was kind of

> > anticlimatic since I still had years to go...but there's no arguing

> > with a mom!) Unfortunately for me, my mentor decided to move back

> to

> > Germany last year - so I had to pick a new mentor after finishing

> my

> > qualifying exam. It set me back at least 6 months to a year - and

> I

> > don't have a clear project yet. sigh. And my orginal mentor

> actually

> > didn't leave yet...he keeps pushing it back. another sigh.

> >

> > Anyway...I'm going to try to explain the basics so that you can

> > understand better why you're swollen and why MLD may work (although

> > I'm no expert on that topic). I'm sorry if it's more complicated

> than

> > it has to be - that's the hardest thing for me right now is

> > simplifying what I spend all my time thinking abou )

> >

> > OK - Immunology for Oral Surgery Patients 101

> >

> > You can think of your immune system has having two components -

> these

> > are called innate and adaptive. Your innate immune system

> consists of

> > a myraid of cells that are constantly surveying your body, looking

> for

> > infection, damage, or tumors. These " bad " things can be

> identified by

> > these innate immune cells by their receptors (think of little

> hands

> > that would reach out and sample the enviornment). The receptors on

> > innate immune cells don't really change much (their stuck with what

> > they got). Innate cells can then recruit other cells to the area

> of

> > infection/damage/tumor by sending out signals. To get more cells

> to

> > the area quicker, certain factors are released that promote

> increased

> > blood flow (leading to swelling).

> >

> > So in our case, a surgeon has cut through our gums and usually

> sawed

> > through our jaws. This leads to many damaged and dead cells (which

> > would also send out their own signals) - that then get recognized

> by

> > these innate immune cells that are constantly surveying our bodies

> for

> > this kind of thing. These cells say " WOA - what the hell happened

> > here? We better call our buddies (and other fun stuff) to help

> clean

> > this up! " And so you get increased blood flow to the area. On

> top of

> > this, your body wants to keep this area of " damage " localized - in

> > essence so that your whole body doesn't become " damaged. " This

> leads

> > to the swelling that you see. Additionally, the surgeon has

> > manipulated (not very gently) lots of muscles in the area - that

> can

> > also lead to some damage. As you probably know, when tissues are

> > damaged, red blood cells can collect in certain areas, leading to

> > bruising. So you got swelling and bruising.

> >

> > Now, your other branch of the immune system, the adaptive immune

> > system, consists of your B and T cells. These have been talked

> about

> > quite frequently in the media in regards to immuno-supressed

> patients

> > (such as AIDS patients). These cells actually have receptors that

> > specifically recognize the " bad things " (we call them antigens) -

> and

> > therefore are very different from their sister cells. What's

> amazing

> > is that these cells can generate millions of different

> combinations of

> > receptors to specifically recognize almost anything you come in

> > contact with. It's really kind of crazy!!! (Alright - I'm a

> nerd).

> > Your B cells (or bone marrow cells) are responsible for producing

> > antibodies. Your T cells (or thymus cells) are responsible for

> > activating B cells and for selectively killing " bad " cells. T and

> B

> > cells generally hang out in your lymph nodes.

> >

> > OK - so your blood is flowing through your body - and in this

> blood is

> > your red blood cells and lymphocyte (or white blood cells or lymph

> > cells or immune cells) and some other stuff we won't worry about.

> Red

> > blood cells for me are pretty boring - I don't study them much.

> The

> > point is that all these cells are kind of mixed together...when you

> > donate blood all these cells come out at the same time. If you

> were

> > an autologous blood donor - you would just get the same exact pint

> > that you donated. But...if you receive a blood donation from

> someone

> > else, they actually can separate the red blood cells from the

> > lymphocytes (which do appear to be clearish or white...and this is

> > called the buffy coat) and only give you red blood cells to limit

> the

> > chance of unwanted interactions.

> >

> > So your red blood cells and lymphocytes are being pumped around

> your

> > body through blood vessels. In addition to being pumped through

> your

> > heart, your blood frequents tons of other organs, including your

> lymph

> > nodes and spleen. So here's the deal. If one of your innate

> immune

> > cells recognizes something bad - it will call it's friends and

> whatnot

> > to the area. In addition, it may also be picked up by the blood

> flow

> > and travel to your lymph node where it can interact with T cells.

> The

> > innate cell " shakes hands " with the T cells (through receptors)

> until

> > a very good match is found...then that T cells replicates a bunch

> of

> > times. This makes a bunch of T cells very specific and reactive

> to a

> > certain kind of damage.

> >

> > OK - so why do people dread hearing that cancer has been spread to

> the

> > lymph node? Well, as you may expect, there's lots of cell division

> > going on in the lymph node. This is your immune system power

> house if

> > you will. So if you have a tumor, a bunch of different things

> change

> > inside the lymph node. You can stop producing your good immune

> cells

> > that would recognize bad things happening in your body (including

> > cancerous cells). Additionally, these cells already have the

> ability

> > to divide very rapidly...which is very bad when you think of the

> > expansion of a bad thing like a tumor. If you think of it though,

> if

> > one cell (that has a tumorogenic potential) breaks off from a tumor

> > and travels through the blood flow - it most likely will end up in

> the

> > lymph node. If your body has undergone changes which does not

> allow

> > this cell to be killed, this cell can then take up shop and start

> > making other little tumor cells. You can also imagine that since

> > blood readily flows through lymph nodes to other parts of the

> body, if

> > you had little cancer seedlings in a lymph node they could very

> well

> > be transported to different parts of the body. Not good.

> >

> > What you can be happy about is that your body would normally see

> > unhappy cells (precancerous) and attack them. I mean, you're

> making

> > cells all the time and being exposed to all sorts of environmental

> > damage...you would think you would have some sort of

> protection...and

> > you do. Cancers usually arise after multiple hits - that is - you

> > have suffered not one bad chance action but multiple...so much so

> that

> > your back-up systems also fail.

> >

> > Alright then. So in my humble opinion (and trust me...I'm only a

> > graduate _student_. I spend much of my days surrounded by people

> who

> > make me feel like the stupidest person on earth...) MLD would

> probably

> > help swelling subside because it stimulates blood flow back out of

> the

> > area of swelling. I could imagine it helping to drain (usually

> back

> > to the lymph node and eventually the heart) the fluid from the

> > localized area. Sounds pretty harmless to me. I'm not sure I'd

> pay

> > to have someone do it though...just because if I waited my body

> would

> > do the same thing for free...and I'm a poor graduate student )

> >

> > OK - I'm done rambling for now. Be prepared...I'm quizzing you all

> > next week! jk

> >

> > -becky

[Guest guest]

Becky,

This was great. Thank you so much. Now I can say I know a little about

immunology without actually having to take any classes! ;-) I'm also a

poor graduate student (MFA, creative writing) and I know exactly what

you mean about being around people who make you feel really dumb. It

seems the more I learn, the less I know. Was it Twain who said that?

So, one question: WHERE is/are the lymph node(s)?

Luna