Re: Direct quotes for graydowney

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/24/01 4:19:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,

duodenalswitch writes:

<< I think it is bad for us to say quote the wrong things about different

procedures.We do not know unless we walk in their shoes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>

here ya go graydowney - exact quotes copied from the RNY list-------------all

by different people, all without their names to protect their

innocence......however, all copied EXACTLY from the list. Now, Graydowney -

do you see people on THIS list saying these things about the DS surgery? If

so, then YOU need to do more research! Carole

quote #1 (I hadn't realized they grade the dumping episodes)

DUMPING- Today I ate a Myoplex Protein Lo Carb bar - Lemon Cheesecake.

I swear I had about stage 2-3 dumping afterwards. Is that possible?

quote #2 (in reference to using this instead of meat tenderizer)

Papaya enzymes can be found at any health food store..

quote #3 - self explanatory

Subject: ate too much

Well I ate too much and the scales show it this morning, however,

when i compare, i ate NOTHING compared what I used too.

I didn't drink any protein yesterday ( I know bad girl) and I over carbed

it some but again still not like i used to do so I'm thankful. And i wasn't

miserable like everyone else. So back to my proscore today.

quote #4

It has been a process to

learn how to eat, to slow down, to chew, chew and chew even more. Not to

pig out so to speak. When you hear people say, eat your 4 oz or what ever

you dr. tells you do it. Cause the feeling of wanting to vomit or the

uncomfyness is awful. Start learning now, start eating little bits now, and

eating slow, go buy a baby spoon and use this helps from taking huge bites

works great. Get your food HOT HOT HOT, there for you can slow your eating

down.

The emotional part, I realized how I was lieing to myself and lieing to

everyone, Oh I didn't eat all that much today, oh YES you have, pizza,

fries, hamburger, bag of chips, bowl of ice cream w/ Choc on top, sandwich,

T-bone steak, mash potatoes, rolls, what ever it is, most of it was junk

and I wasn't eating right. So you differently realize that what ever

problems that you were having that you could go and get some type of food to

make you feel better you can't do no longer, that what ever food you wanted

to celebrate with you can't do no longer. Its a mental strain at first,

cause you learning how to deal with everything, your learning that problems

aren't taken care of w/ food that you have to face your fears. For me w/

everything that has happened this year I have let it get my mental state

screwed up

I have never thrown up or been sick except for a couple of

dumping episodes that were my fault. That's the built-in moderator for most

of us, we do dump if we eat refined sugar!

quote #5

I've heard many say this

surgery is not the panacea, it's a tool,

quote #6

sorry I wasn't here but baby you need to

> get some papaya enzymes to keep with you at all

> times for this .Like ____ said they are real useful

> during times of stuck food

quote #7 I will be getting some of that papaya stuff. I never want to go

thru this again. I had to force myself to be down deep ill. But I thing

most of the blockage came up. I'm sipping tea now and so far so good. Its

been a long night. No more undercooked vegies for me. I've been eating to

fast and not chewing well enough. All of that is past.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/24/01 11:27:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,

duodenalswitch writes:

<< Now if someone is researching the surgery and you mention that you had the

DS well then that is when all the " dumping has taught me how to eat posts

come out " That is a wild bunch!

Lisbeth

>>

I know, amazing, isn't it? Which is the point I was making with my very

first post, when the woman wrote that she wanted to have the RNY because she

*wanted* to dump. I just do not get it! Of course, graydowney will now tell

me I am being judgemental and critical for saying I don't get it........

Carole

<< Lest anyone think that these quotes are taken out of

context or don't represent a common experience, they can monitor those

boards for a while, as well.

>>

Yep, - those were actually some " tame " ones, but to me, they show

enough of how different life is after RNY than after DS and I know I want DS.

I personally don't want to dump or drink meat tenderizer or worry about my

stomah getting plugged because I ate more than a baby spoon full of food!

Carole

[Guest guest]

ROFL!! I love you, Nick! I needed a good laugh tonight too because

my tummy has been upset all day. Can hardly eat anything and just

generally feel icky. I'm sure it'll pass.

Tracey in Santee (San Diego)

Dr. Keshishian 11/12/01

> Maybe the RNY fans would really prefer, in addition to dumping, to

have

> someone hit them with a cattle prod everytime they fantasize over

chocolate

> bon bons.

>

> Self-flagellation too? The possibilities are endless.

>

> These mental conditions have been named by mental health

professionals.

>

> Best -

>

> Nick

>

>

> Re: Direct quotes for graydowney

>

>

> > In a message dated 11/24/01 11:27:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> > duodenalswitch@y... writes:

> >

> > << Now if someone is researching the surgery and you mention that

you had

> the

> > DS well then that is when all the " dumping has taught me how to

eat posts

> > come out " That is a wild bunch!

> > Lisbeth

> >

> > >>

> > I know, amazing, isn't it? Which is the point I was making with

my very

> > first post, when the woman wrote that she wanted to have the RNY

because

> she

> > *wanted* to dump. I just do not get it! Of course, graydowney

will now

> tell

> > me I am being judgemental and critical for saying I don't get

it........

> > Carole

> >

> > << Lest anyone think that these quotes are taken out of

> > context or don't represent a common experience, they can monitor

those

> > boards for a while, as well.

> >

> >

> > >>

> > Yep, - those were actually some " tame " ones, but to me,

they show

> > enough of how different life is after RNY than after DS and I

know I want

> DS.

> > I personally don't want to dump or drink meat tenderizer or

worry about

> my

> > stomah getting plugged because I ate more than a baby spoon full

of food!

> > Carole

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------

----

> >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/26/01 1:13:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,

duodenalswitch writes:

<<

You know what I think? Weird, vocal masochists aside, I think that

the MAJORITY of people who choose the RNY are those who just didn't

know any better. Yeah, it's their fault for not doing enough

research, and they pay a price for their stupidity, but in SOME

sense, doctors are to blame as well. It is not ethical for a doctor

not to inform his or her patient about ALL wls options, even

superficially or in a biased kind of way.

>>

I agree, but there are some people who you can tell about DS and they still

want the RNY. And then there are those who think any wls is the same thing

and that even though people have had the DS and had personal experience by

having and living the DS, their opinion doesn't matter, only a Dr.'s does.

(as in graydowney who thinks the whole world's problems revolve around those

of us who have the *audacity* to say we'd rather have the DS after actually

reading about experiences from those who have had the RNY and the

DS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Nick - you are *NOT* like the Taliban!

Carole

[Guest guest]

Hi, Nick! Missed you while I was away.

You know what I think? Weird, vocal masochists aside, I think that

the MAJORITY of people who choose the RNY are those who just didn't

know any better. Yeah, it's their fault for not doing enough

research, and they pay a price for their stupidity, but in SOME

sense, doctors are to blame as well. It is not ethical for a doctor

not to inform his or her patient about ALL wls options, even

superficially or in a biased kind of way.

I went to a wls " support group " in Virginia before I had decided

about what surgery to have. I asked the people in the room how they

made the choice. NONE of them knew what the D/S was. (What freaked

me out most, besides the complaining about dumping, was the fact that

they were always hungry!!)

OOOH! Can't continue this right now, but I did have further

ramblings to type. I feel like an RNYer right now!

Talk later, my dear,

Maybe the RNY fans would really prefer,

in

> addition to dumping, to have

> > someone hit them with a cattle prod everytime they fantasize over

> chocolate

> > bon bons.

> >

> > Self-flagellation too? The possibilities are endless.

> >

> > These mental conditions have been named by mental health

professionals.

> >

> > Best -

> >

> > Nick

> >

> >

> > Re: Direct quotes for graydowney

> >

> >

> > > In a message dated 11/24/01 11:27:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> > > duodenalswitch@y... writes:

> > >

> > > << Now if someone is researching the surgery and you mention

that you

> had

> > the

> > > DS well then that is when all the " dumping has taught me how to

eat

> posts

> > > come out " That is a wild bunch!

> > > Lisbeth

> > >

> > > >>

> > > I know, amazing, isn't it? Which is the point I was making with

my very

> > > first post, when the woman wrote that she wanted to have the

RNY because

> > she

> > > *wanted* to dump. I just do not get it! Of course, graydowney

will now

> > tell

> > > me I am being judgemental and critical for saying I don't get

it........

> > > Carole

> > >

> > > << Lest anyone think that these quotes are taken out of

> > > context or don't represent a common experience, they can

monitor those

> > > boards for a while, as well.

> > >

> > >

> > > >>

> > > Yep, - those were actually some " tame " ones, but to me,

they show

> > > enough of how different life is after RNY than after DS and I

know I

> want

> > DS.

> > > I personally don't want to dump or drink meat tenderizer or

worry about

> > my

> > > stomah getting plugged because I ate more than a baby spoon

full of

> food!

> > > Carole

> > >

> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------

------

> > >

[Guest guest]

AJ,

94 pounds!!!! you sneaky little gal! wow, I just can't believe you,

girl! Congratulations. Was looking for posts from you on the

boyfriend situation and since I was catching up under the haze of

post op recovery, didn't know your status.

Please let me know how you are doing, if you don't mind, and again,

wow, fantastic weight loss!

Hugs,

Theresa

Dr. Jossart

11-19-01

> ~*~ AJ ~*~

> Age 37 5'8'' Post op 7/24/01 Open DS

> self pay - Dr Baltasar -Alcoy Spain

> 07/24/01 BMI 64 415.1

> 08/24/01 BMI 58 386.5 -28.6 lbs!

> 09/24/01 BMI 55.8 367.1 -48.0 lbs! -37.75 inches

> 10/24/01 BMI 52.6 346.0 -69.1 lbs!

> 11/24/01 BMI 49.8 322.0 -93.1lbs! -77 inches

> 11/26/01 BMI 48.8 321.0 -94.1 lbs

> My profile:

> http://www.obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/profile.phtml?N=E982002956

> My websites:

> www.wls4aj.homestead.com

> www.wlsbellingham.homestead.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Beautifully said, Nick!

Tracey in Santee (San Diego)

Dr. Keshishian 11/12/01

> Gray -

>

> How cute you are. You complain that people act like children then

decry the

> use of " nasty remarks. "

>

> If you haven't looked for the studies, start now. I did. Just

about

> everyone else here did the same. I am not about to take my time to

point

> you to the research when you reject everything that people are

telling you.

> No, I won't tell you to read Hess' report, nor Rabkin's, nor

Marceau's. I

> won't bother to tell you to go the archives and read the massive

compilation

> of research by Hull. No, if you don't care enough to find

out, go

> ahead and have some surgeon commit mayhem on your stomach and

sentence you

> to a life of eating just like you want.

>

> Why do you choose 30 years a benchmark for longitudinal studies?

You know

> freakin' well that the DS has a near 15 year track record and that

there ARE

> longitudinal studies out there that go back for that long. If you

choose to

> ignore them and wait for another 15 years, you deserve what you

get. If you

> choose the RNY, you deserve that as well.

>

> I could care less whether or not you perceive me to be " nice. " I

only care

> that people have access to accurate information and that they use

that

> information. If you choose to ignore that information or refuse to

seek it

> out altogether, that is strictly up to you.

>

> Comparing me to the Taliban is pretty stupid, too. You will

relegate

> yourself to whatever lifestyle you choose. Don't include me in that

> process. I have nothing to do with what direction you go. If you

are

> committed to closing your mind, so be it. Have that RNY. You

deserve each

> other. It " don't make no nevermind to me. "

>

> Also, you might find that you aren't going to have any type of WLS

surgery

> because there is one evaluation that stands between you and the

operating

> room, one that is going to present you with a real challenge.

>

> Kick your brain into gear and figure things out for yourself and

stop asking

> others to do your homework for you.

>

> Best-

>

> Nick

[Guest guest]

HOLY COW!

Based on some other witnesses' remarks as well as yours, this idea of

passing on misinformation seems like a huge contributing factor to

many RNY decisions. I always thought it was just ignorance, but to

misinform patients without doing their own research and reading the

evidence--well, it amounts to malpractice, and I don't think that I'm

overstating things!

When I had a consultation with a wls doctor home in Virginia (only

does RNY) I asked him why not or if he would ever even consider

performing the D/S. His exact answer: " I don't know; I just don't

do it. " To this day I can't figure out if he was just blowing me

off, had a personality disorder, or was truly less informed about the

D/S than I.

Best,

> Hi -

>

> If it was just that the RNY surgeons didn't inform patients of their

> options, it wouldn't be so bad. I have read several posts that

state that

> RNY surgeons actually misinform their prospective patients by

exaggerating

> problems with the DS such as malnutrition, gas production that

would put

> OPEC out of business, etc.

>

> Not telling the whole truth is one thing but outright

misrepresentation is

> totally despicable. But, then, the patient can always do as we

did, conduct

> a bit of research.

>

> Best -

>

> Nick

[Guest guest]

Hi, .

Regarding this:

> Not everyone who opts for RNY over DS is stupid. There are valid

Yes, that's exactly my point. The prospective RNY patients are NOT

all stupid: ***in many cases their doctors are, too!!!***

And, of course, every rational being allows for the medical

contraindications. The other reasons, such as negative behavioral

reinforcement, location, and cost are fair game for receiving an

abundance of disrespect, in my mind. Go to a shrink (or the old L.A.

Schick centers--remember those? ;}) for negative reinforcement

issues, and a bankruptcy attorney for the latter ones!

Best,

[Guest guest]

AJ---

I swear you are secretly going somewhere to get fat sucked off!!! WOW

94#'s!!! Congrats!!!!

EM me privately--with your size--I may have some stuff for you!!

Pammi

[Guest guest]

OMYGOD ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!

Nicky you are SOOOO BAD!!!

Chris

-- In duodenalswitch@y..., " Nick " <sage@i...> wrote:

> Gray -

>

> Also, you might find that you aren't going to have any type of WLS

surgery

> because there is one evaluation that stands between you and the

operating

> room, one that is going to present you with a real challenge.

>

> Best-

>

> Nick

[Guest guest]

> Nick, I will not to argue with anyone. I havent had my surgery yet.

I cant

> believe that Im seeing adults act like children.

Hmmn.. for " not arguing, " you sure argue a lot.

Do you have years of

> documentation that you can show me(thirty years) that the DS is as

perfect as

> you say.If so please send me the information.

The DS is not quite 30 years old.. but in the Hess report there *is*

such evidence.

I think it is more stupid to

> think one can have a magic wand to lose weight. Fat and sugar are

bad,ask

> many seniors whos bodies told them to stop. I think you are looking

for a

> miracle,a way to eat what you want.

You definitely haven't had surgery if you think this is a " magic

wand. " What I don't get is this: if you are so set on the RnY, why

are you wasting bandwidth on a DS list? Sugar and fat are NOT bad for

you; if this were true, the entire world would be obese, but they

aren't. Soo.. on that count, it takes no documentation.. only eyes.

If you have found it please show me the

> documentation.I dont think this is funny and their is no room for

the " my

> dogs better than yours " . When people research they dont need to hear

the

> nasty remarks. Again, I go by what I research and what I see first

handed.I

> am amazed that you are so openly narrow minded.Do you tell everyone

that

> comes to this group to research that the DS is the best,only way to

go and

> 100% the top surgical procedure.

Actually, yes, I do.

Do you have the medical background to spout

> your mouth off.

Again, yes.. I do.

If so why are you not on television and why are you not on

> Oprah.

I've been on TV for other health related soundbites- it ain't all

that. I'm not on Oprah because she does not believe in WSL.. why beat

a dead horse?

This is not funny,it isa serious topic.Many are trying to save their

> lives.There is no room to act like a group of washwoman.I take my

life very

> serious.I go to these groups to learn not be attacked for questions and

> observations.We live in America(at least last I checked we did) and

we have

> rights.This is not the Soviet Union and you are attacking me for

asking

> questions.Our society is so full of negativity,that is why the world

is in

> the shape it is in.Men like you are what has made the woman of

Afganistan

> suffer.I have rights and you cannot take them away from me.I have

ignored you

> but it is obvious that you keep bringing up the topic.Let sleeping

dogs lie!

Give me a freakin break.. If men like Nick were in Afghanistan, the

women would never have been oppressed. Your argument is not logical..

no one here denies you the right to ask questions ABOUT THE DS. Let

me put it bluntly to you.. we don't give a rat's butt about the RnY..

if you're into self-torture, go for it.. but we don't want to hear

about it. You keep saying that our view of the RnY is biased. And

yours is NOT? Please. No surgery is perfect.. but the DS is pretty

damned close. So yeah, we love it, promote it, and prefer to believe

that it is the best surgery available. Nothing anyone says will

change our minds.. especially not when its posted by someonbe who

spews illogical rants that make very little sense. If you want to

troll, go for it. but not here. Try wls_uncensored.. you'll be in

good company there.

Sheesh.

Liane

[Guest guest]

PSST... AJ...?

share?????

Conga-rats, girl.. you're just going like gangbusters!

Hugs,

Liane

>

> >AJ---

> >

> >I swear you are secretly going somewhere to get fat sucked off!!!