Re: I came to learn

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/26/01 10:10:09 PM, duodenalswitch

writes:

<<

Now the attack will begin on me.. Lord oh mighty if you had put all

this energy into weight loss before surgery you would not of needed

it.. Sorry but my opinion..

>>

I agree that namecalling is not appropriate but we are all adults and a

diverse set of ones (and, on the whole pretty intelligent and often outspoken

ones, obviously). Sometimes conflict arises and people are quick to get hot

under the collar and/or accuse others. I'm sure it happens on other lists or

is this the ONLY one you read? From what I've read on other RNY lists, the

DS group is a bunch of brainwashed lairs who can't possibly be describing

their post-op lives accurately or actually succeed at keeping the weight off

long term and love living!

It is really sad that you consider morbidly obese people as not putting

enough' effort' into weight loss. ACtually, most of the people on this board

are EXTREMELY tenacious and HAVE lost only to regain eventually (even moreso

than before) -- I can count myself as one of them. I don't think my

condition is a lack of 'willpower' by any means.

This severe difference of opinion on the origins of obesity, the resolution

required to get to a decent weight and stay there is one of the major reasons

why there are extreme rifts between those who choose the RNY and those who

prefer the DS.

Learning means opening up your mind to possibilities and considering things

other than what you traditionally have been told or within your realm of

experience. Choosing to focus on occasional spats between a few individuals

on a major board (and the majority of people did NOT participate in any of

these) rather than focus on the information you could be processing and

evaluating is not very worthwhile, IMHO.

How can you learn when you choose to distract yourself? It sounds like you

have had your mind made up about all 'DSers' before you even got here and you

are using the two threads (out of how many that have been posted???) to

justify your self-fulfilling stereotypes. This, in turn, causes you to

reinforce a rather provincial and limited world view without really being

open-minded in the process.

It's like saying you went outside the airport in Hong Kong on a layover, saw

people spitting on the street and seeming to yell at you in Cantonese and

this reinforced your concepts about Chinese being loud, rude or not able to

understand you. You can claim to have some 'personal experience' because you

actually got off the plane to explore for a few minutes. When you get back

on, you can feel justified in your stereotypes because you made the effort to

investigate. However, that investigation was doomed from the get go and

wasn't sincere. YOu came to the list, immediately became extremely

distracted upset (and quite judgemental yourself! LOL) by a few threads

which were contentious and decided that the DS wasn't for you or that DSers

are just a 'childish' group of people. I really don't understand how you can

come to such deep and life-altering decisions based on a brief stint here on

the list and based on a few threads....

If you are truely here to learn -- don't get hung up on some rather sensitive

or volitle threads. See the entire picture and get information on post-op

life and experience. You don't have to like everyone on the board in order

to decide the DS is the right surgery for you. LOL

I think that DSers who have posted about RNY folk (although sometimes being

quite judgemental and making blanket statements) do have a point when they

say that there is a certain mindset that is vastly different from that of

someone who chooses a DS. I personally wouldn't call all people who choose

RNY 'stupid' by any means. I think that many do NOT fully understand other

options open to them --- and unfortunately the DS is not a widespread option

readily available to many outside major cities.

I think that many surgeons may NOT explain the difference between a distal

and a medial RNY -- and the post-op lifestyles required for each. The

studies have shown that there CAN BE A higher incidence of weight regain with

a proximal RNY. Therefore, one should realize that one will have to pretty

much be on a lifetime 'diet' after that surgery. On the other hand, one will

not require as much supplements/protein. The distal RNY is abhorrant, IMHO

-- The small pouch size does not allow for adequate nutrition but carries

similar risk to a DS. I would much prefer to have a 'normal' post-op stomach

with high malapsorption. Of the distal procedures, I think DS wins HANDS

DOWN. I can fully understand why someone would prefer a proximal procedure

(less risk of nutritional deficiency, etc.) but I KNOW it wasn't for me. Not

only would the stoma issue, dietary restrictions, etc. (and I'm not talking

about sugar here but meats, fried foods, etc.), not drinking with meals

bother me and impinge on my life in ways I would never prefer BUT the lack of

malapsorption would carry a big risk of late weight regain.

If I were able to diet and exercise and maintain a normal weight I would have

done this WITHOUT SURGERY. I would hate to have undergone such a radical

change to my body (and it is permanant when one is totally practical about

any reversal option) and then experience the weight coming on again despite

all I'd been through.

all the best,

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

10 months post-op and still feelin fabu

preop: 307 lbs/bmi 45

now: 204 (gained 3 lbs - plateau and period time LOL)/size sweet

16/large-MEDIUM in normal people's clothing!

[Guest guest]

IF SOMEONE CHOOSES TO HAVE ONE WLS OVER THE

OTHER THAN THAT IS THEIR CHOICE.. .....

thats right, Kim BUT! This happens to be a DS site and we are particular

towards the DS and always will be. This is not an RNY list!!! If you want

support for the RNY youve come to the wrong place.

Judie

[Guest guest]

I can't believe you honestly think that 'getting fat' was any of our choices

.....

Donna Joostema

pre-op/Dr. Hess

1/22/02

>

>Reply-To: duodenalswitch

>To: duodenalswitch

>Subject: I came to learn

>Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:12:36 -0000

>

>LOOK YOU ALL.. I CAME HERE TO LEARN AND ALL I SEE HERE IS CUT DOWNS

>AND INSULTS AND NAME CALLING.. I HONESTLY DO NOT WANT OR NEED THIS

>TYPE OF NEGITIVE SUPPORT..

>PLEASE ALL GROW UP AND IF SOMEONE CHOOSES TO HAVE ONE WLS OVER THE

>OTHER THAN THAT IS THEIR CHOICE.. JUST AS GETTING FAT WAS EACH OF OUR

>CHOICES! SO GET OVER THIS AND GO ON TO SUPPORTING EACH OTHER AND NOT

>BITING AT EACH OTHERS NECKS..

>GROW UP PLEASE..

>KIM

>

>

>----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Now the attack will begin on me.. Lord oh mighty if you had put all

this energy into weight loss before surgery you would not of needed

it.. Sorry but my opinion..

Kim

[Guest guest]

Kim,

I respect your opinions, however, I disagree. If you came here to learn, it

would seem that you would quietly look over all the posts you could get your

hands on and ask as many questions as you possibly could. Tonight, I've

read two of your posts; the first one stating that being fat is a choice we

all made and the second one implies we have simply not put enough energy

into losing weight, otherwise we would've succeeded. Not to be

disrespectful, but I think you need to back up and read (quietly) as many

posts as possible so that you can make more intelligent remarks regarding

obesity and surgery. Then, I'll bet you'll find more positive response from

everyone else out here. I don't post often, but I read EVERY DAY and thank

God for this group of people. They have an awful lot to offer to those who

are ready to receive the information and do something positive with it. I

wish you luck.

Donna Joostema

pre-op/Dr. Hess

1/22/02

>

>Reply-To: duodenalswitch

>To: duodenalswitch

>Subject: Re: I came to learn

>Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:26:14 -0000

>

>Now the attack will begin on me.. Lord oh mighty if you had put all

>this energy into weight loss before surgery you would not of needed

>it.. Sorry but my opinion..

>Kim

>

>

>----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

> Now the attack will begin on me.. Lord oh mighty if you had put all

> this energy into weight loss before surgery you would not of needed

> it.. Sorry but my opinion..

> Kim

Well, Kim, if you keep making statements like that, you should be

prepared for people to react indignantly. You (yes, quoted right up

there) just implied that we got morbidly obese because we didn't try

hard enough. How can anyone not be offended by that?

Now, with that I will reiterate the list rule against attacking other

members. It would be great if everyone could abide by that. Thanks.

M. (DS list moderator)

---

in Valrico, FL, age 39

Lap DGB/DS by Dr. Rabkin 10/19/99

Starting weight 299, now 153

Starting BMI 49.7, now 25.5

Starting size 26/28, now 10/12

http://www.duodenalswitch.com/Patients/M/melaniem.html

Direct replies: mailto:melanie@...

[Guest guest]

>

> Now, with that I will reiterate the list rule against attacking

other

> members. It would be great if everyone could abide by that. Thanks.

>

Please then practice what you preach.. The attacks started long

before I posted tonight.. Just back up a few days.. and read

Kim

[Guest guest]

> Please then practice what you preach.. The attacks started long

> before I posted tonight.. Just back up a few days.. and read

> Kim

Kim, why are you here? That's what you need to be focusing on. Not he

said/she said and trying to control other list members. I respectfully

asked everyone, including you, to abide by the list's rules. I don't

think that I attacked anyone, so I'm a bit baffled by you telling me to

practice what I preach. LOL. IN any case, I repeat: if you are here to

read and learn, then please do that. If you are here only to criticize

and control, you won't find much satisfaction here.

[Guest guest]

Well if you had such almighty fortitude why are you here?

Lisbeth

Kim wrote: Now the attack will begin on me.. Lord oh

mighty if you had put all

this energy into weight loss before surgery you would not of needed

it.. Sorry but my opinion..

Kim

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

How did your post below help in moving the dialogue to a higher level?

Lisbeth

Kim wrote: LOOK YOU ALL.. I CAME HERE TO LEARN AND ALL I

SEE HERE IS CUT DOWNS

AND INSULTS AND NAME CALLING.. I HONESTLY DO NOT WANT OR NEED THIS

TYPE OF NEGITIVE SUPPORT..

PLEASE ALL GROW UP AND IF SOMEONE CHOOSES TO HAVE ONE WLS OVER THE

OTHER THAN THAT IS THEIR CHOICE.. JUST AS GETTING FAT WAS EACH OF OUR

CHOICES! SO GET OVER THIS AND GO ON TO SUPPORTING EACH OTHER AND NOT

BITING AT EACH OTHERS NECKS..

GROW UP PLEASE..

KIM

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Kim said:

" JUST AS GETTING FAT WAS EACH OF OUR

CHOICES! "

This is especially revealing!

Best-

Nick

[Guest guest]

Kim,

I challenge you to go to an RNY list and mention DS. You will likely

get the same if not a more harsh response from RNY'ers. On some

lists your messages will not even show up due to severe moderators

and the penchant for denying that the DS is a viable surgery. And

that is because we can eat what we want. I do not know about you,

but I have suffered enough with being overweight. The names, the

looks, the pity or disdain(sp?); enough I say. I want a solution,

period. Not something that may work. So far, it is working for me.

Three months tomorrow and I have lost 53 pounds.

Are some of the replies harsh? Yes. Is this a DS list? Yes. Talk

to us about the DS. Learn from all the experience here. Talk about

the RNY on the RNY lists. The fire bug in most of us has a hard time

letting some remarks go by. I am not saying that it is right or

wrong, just that it occurs. I have read only one persons remarks on

this list that have been downright UGLY and mean just for the sake of

doing it. The people here are caring and want to help in all ways

possible. Even our dear Nick. He is a gem ya know? But he has his

way of getting his point across, just as you do.

Either way, take care and know that we will answer your questions

regarding the DS. Heck, i'll even tell you all about my lil postie

problems off the list. I did not have anything major on a grand

scale, but big to me.

Cheers and have a super night!

Liz Nielsen

[Guest guest]

I put a lot of energy into weight loss before surgery. A lot! I

lost down to my normal weight several times and regained it plus

more. This is typical for morbidly obese people.

Diets do not work for the MO folks. Weight loss surgery does. The

RNY works as does the DS. However, the RNY does not permit folks to

live the sort of normal eating life that we prefer.

If you beat up on yourself for being morbidly obese, then I can see

why you want to also continue the self punishment by having an RNY. I

gave up treating myself that badly and decided to have the DS. I had

looked at the RNY and other options and decided I did NOT want them

before reading about the DS on the duodenalswitch.com website.

/Seattle

> Now the attack will begin on me.. Lord oh mighty if you had put all

> this energy into weight loss before surgery you would not of needed

> it.. Sorry but my opinion..

> Kim

[Guest guest]

Kim,

Your opinion bites! It's people like you that allow bigotry against

fat people to continue in our society.

And did you really think that after your post people WOULDN'T have a

response? Grow up.

Tracey in Santee (San Diego)

Dr. Keshishian 11/12/01

> Now the attack will begin on me.. Lord oh mighty if you had put all

> this energy into weight loss before surgery you would not of needed

> it.. Sorry but my opinion..

> Kim

[Guest guest]

Just for the record, I did not choose to " get fat "

ann

I can't believe you honestly think that 'getting fat' was any of our choices

.....

Donna Joostema

pre-op/Dr. Hess

1/22/02

JUST AS GETTING FAT WAS EACH OF OUR

>CHOICES! SO GET OVER THIS AND GO ON TO SUPPORTING EACH OTHER AND NOT

>BITING AT EACH OTHERS NECKS..

>GROW UP PLEASE..

>KIM

>

>

>----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

I don't agree that we chose to get fat...no one

chooses to be fat.

--- Kim wrote:

> LOOK YOU ALL.. I CAME HERE TO LEARN AND ALL I SEE

> HERE IS CUT DOWNS

> AND INSULTS AND NAME CALLING.. I HONESTLY DO NOT

> WANT OR NEED THIS

> TYPE OF NEGITIVE SUPPORT..

> PLEASE ALL GROW UP AND IF SOMEONE CHOOSES TO HAVE

> ONE WLS OVER THE

> OTHER THAN THAT IS THEIR CHOICE.. JUST AS GETTING

> FAT WAS EACH OF OUR

> CHOICES! SO GET OVER THIS AND GO ON TO SUPPORTING

> EACH OTHER AND NOT

> BITING AT EACH OTHERS NECKS..

> GROW UP PLEASE..

> KIM

>

>

>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Donna,

I couldn't agree more. I have learned alot from these

people and it has helped me make up my mind that I

made the right choice.

Pre-op 01/09/02

BMI 41/age 39

DR. K

--- Donna Joostema wrote:

> Kim,

>

> I respect your opinions, however, I disagree. If

> you came here to learn, it

> would seem that you would quietly look over all the

> posts you could get your

> hands on and ask as many questions as you possibly

> could. Tonight, I've

> read two of your posts; the first one stating that

> being fat is a choice we

> all made and the second one implies we have simply

> not put enough energy

> into losing weight, otherwise we would've succeeded.

> Not to be

> disrespectful, but I think you need to back up and

> read (quietly) as many

> posts as possible so that you can make more

> intelligent remarks regarding

> obesity and surgery. Then, I'll bet you'll find

> more positive response from

> everyone else out here. I don't post often, but I

> read EVERY DAY and thank

> God for this group of people. They have an awful

> lot to offer to those who

> are ready to receive the information and do

> something positive with it. I

> wish you luck.

>

> Donna Joostema

> pre-op/Dr. Hess

> 1/22/02

>

>

>

> >

> >Reply-To: duodenalswitch

> >To: duodenalswitch

> >Subject: Re: I came to learn

> >Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:26:14 -0000

> >

> >Now the attack will begin on me.. Lord oh mighty if

> you had put all

> >this energy into weight loss before surgery you

> would not of needed

> >it.. Sorry but my opinion..

> >Kim

> >

> >

>

>----------------------------------------------------------------------

> >

[Guest guest]

You know I haven't said one negative thing to anyone, but this is getting

stupid why don't you just take it up with the one or two people why made

those remakes instead of making everyone else suffer the arguments PLEASE

!!!!!!

thanks

Nadine in MIchigan

[Guest guest]

boring is what it is, I have very little time to read my mail and it is

loaded with crabby yelling people

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/28/2001 6:43:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,

ozzymagick@... writes:

>

> boring is what it is, I have very little time to read my mail and it is

>

You mean like that above???

.. ´¨¨)) -:¦:-

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ Melisa -:¦:-

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

[Guest guest]

Boy does it get tiresome reading posts from people who are criticizing other

people's deep discussion of important issues.

Nick

Re: I came to learn

> You know I haven't said one negative thing to anyone, but this is getting

> stupid why don't you just take it up with the one or two people why made

> those remakes instead of making everyone else suffer the arguments PLEASE

> !!!!!!

> thanks

> Nadine in MIchigan

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

AAAAAAhhhhhh, the magic of the delete button.

You, too, can use it. (You sound a bit crabby yourself.)

Best-

Nick

Re: I came to learn

> boring is what it is, I have very little time to read my mail and it is

> loaded with crabby yelling people

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yanno what?

Fuck you.. if YOU spent as much time researching WLS instead of

trolling this list, you might have learned something. I did not

choose to be fat, nor did many of my friends. If YOU want to lay

claim to being a pig who can't say no to food, terrific. But don't

lay your sins at the feet of others.

And yeah.. attack me for no reason, & I will respond harshly. You get

what you dish out, " sweetkim. " If you're so bloody miserable, take

your miserable butt off our list, ok?

Liane

> Now the attack will begin on me.. Lord oh mighty if you had put all

> this energy into weight loss before surgery you would not of needed

> it.. Sorry but my opinion..

> Kim