RE: Dr. Ren

[Guest guest]

ROFL Steve, *that* was cute!!!

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[Guest guest]

Hi Ellyn -

The question isn't her competence as a surgeon. The issue is her attempt to

dissuade people from having the DS using " data " that nobody has ever seen,

such as the " overrated pylorus " issue and the " pancreatic cancer " scare

tactic. Her suggestion that the BPD is superior is not an opinion shared by

other experienced surgeons.

In the scheme of things, Ren is not one of the more experienced DS surgeons.

This is not a personal philosophy. It is based upon the time and experience

that she has with the procedure. Comparing her in terms of experience to

Gagner, Rabkin, Baltasar, Hess, McPherson and a host of others would be

ludicrous.

She HAS had at least one serious issue doing the DS. Because you were not

that person does not eliminate the concern. I am very happy that your

surgery went well. Likewise, I am sad that Deb's did not.

Even though Ren does the DS, it sure looks like you have to work hard to get

her to do it instead of falling for her apparent " bait and switch. "

ly, I find some of the statements attributed to her about the relative

merit of the DS vs. the BPD to be a bit ludicrous. It is pretty clear to me

that she is uncomfortable with the complexity of the lap DS procedure and

still wants to earn a living doing WLS surgery that may " look " like the DS.

Doesn't having a valve to regulate the flow of material from the stomach

really sound like a neat idea? It sure does to me!

Best -

Nick in Sage

Dr. Ren

> I usually am just a lurker on the site, but I must take issue with

something

> I read about Dr. Ren. I had my BPD/DS on August 16th by Dr.

Ren.

> Not only is she a VERY experienced surgeon, thorough and I might

> add--BRILLIANT, but she is also continuing to do the DS on her patients.

>

> I dont know where this erroneous information is coming from, but it is NOT

> from her. Further, when I went for my initial consultation with her about

my

> surgery and which procedure I wanted to choose, Dr. Ren was QUITE FRANK

with

> me about the dangers/benefits of EACH of the surgeries, including the DS.

We

> cannot put our collective heads in the sand about the risk factors

involved

> in choosing these surgeries and further, the DS is still the most

complicated

> procedure SURGICALLY in comparison to the lap band and the RNY. It would

seem

> to me that any surgeon worth his/her salt would be remiss in NOT fully

> informing their patients about the reality of these choices.

>

> Lastly, I cannot say enough about Dr. Ren's skill level. I would

recommend

> both her bedside manner and more importantly her surgical skills to

ANYONE.

>

> Her hesitancy if it can even be called that about doing the DS is a

realistic

> one when faced with 4-6 hour surgeries on already compromised patients.

Lets

> try to get our heads out of our collective butts when we criticize these

> doctors for being hesitant.

>

> Hesitancy does NOT equal saying no to a needy patient.

>

> BTW, I am doing great post-surgically. DUe to Dr. Ren's expertise, I have

> had minimal if non-existent post surgical complications and I am proud to

say

> I am down 61 pounds since the surgery.

>

> Lastly, if this other Dr. is refusing to do the surgery, please

do

> not lump her together with Dr. Ren.

>

> Thanks for the soapbox,

> Ellyn

> LAP BPD/DS

> August 16th, 2001

> starting weight 291

> weight as of Monday, December 10th-230

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> We

> cannot put our collective heads in the sand about the risk factors

involved

> in choosing these surgeries and further, the DS is still the most

complicated

> procedure SURGICALLY in comparison to the lap band and the RNY. It

would seem

> to me that any surgeon worth his/her salt would be remiss in NOT

fully

> informing their patients about the reality of these choices.

>

> Her hesitancy if it can even be called that about doing the DS is a

realistic

> one when faced with 4-6 hour surgeries on already compromised

patients. Lets

> try to get our heads out of our collective butts when we criticize

these

> doctors for being hesitant.

>

Ellyn: Ughh... we were talking about the Scoparino BPD vs the DS,

not the Ds vs other types of surgery (lapband or RNY/VGB). The

concern was NOT coming about Dr. Ren and whether she is hesitant to

perform the DS on any patient. It surrounds a controversy that some

patients who consulted with her said she was going to recommend the

BPD OVER the DS and statements that they are about equal (or that the

DS does not really have any noted advantage).

Yes, the DS is the most complicated surgery out there (even moreso if

done lap). Yes, there are risk factors, etc. No one is debating

that. What we are discussing is how some surgeons (and relatively new

practices at that) have recently been reported as making statements

about preference for the earlier BPD surgery and that the DS does not

have enough advantages to warrant the increased complication level it

presents the surgeon.

As far as I know, none of Dr. Ren's patients have reported that she

'switched' their procedure from a DS to a BPD immediately beforehand

(other than one post-op who is now suing because this happened as an

'emergency situation' during her lap Ds surgery). However, other

surgeons ( is one of them) seem to be telling patients that

they prefer to do the BPD only a few days before the surgery date...

This does seem to be like an alarming trend and one that the group

SHOULD be concerned about, IMHO.

I want to know WHERE this information is coming from -- that the DS

really doesn't offer such a significant difference in absorption, etc.

Where are the studies? What information are they relying on when they

say this to patients? All of the surgeons that were mentioned as

having at some point relaying this to pre-ops (Dr. Ren, Dr.

and another -- but I can't remember the name) are relatively new

either with the DS procedure or new to the surgery practice all

together. They may very well be excellent surgeons. However, since

they don't have an extensive patient database and/or experience, how

can they make such statements about the DS vs the BPD when all

published and known studies (and more established surgeons) do not

hold the same view?

all the best,

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

Dr. Gagner, Mt. Sinai, NYC

10 months post-op and still feelin' fabu

preop: 307 lbs/bmi 45

now: 198 lbs/bmi 28/size swee

[Guest guest]

hi there-

another lurker checking in. (by the way ellyn, i am the person who

met you in dr. ren's waiting room a few weeks after my

surgery...thank you so much for the encouraging words!)

i have never posted to this list, although i have subscribed for a

number of months now. this is the first topic, near and dear to my

heart, and felt compelled to write.

i had BPD surgery with dr.ren on october 18th. i had the choice of

all the surgeries. she did not try to pursuade me, or change my mind

as to which surgery to choose. however, she is my surgeon. i chose

her and my surgery both after many months of research. i had to

write a long letter to my insurance company to get the surgery

approved, and with the research i did, i found that the bpd and dr.

ren were both right for me. thank god i did. i had many

complications during my surgery, and i am scared to even think what

the outcome would have been with a less skilled surgeon. my

complications were not due to any co-morbidities, or errors on the

surgeon's part. there was no way for my physicians or dr. ren to

predict what was going to happen to me. i seemed like a " healthy "

candidate for the laproscopic procedure. to make a very long story

short, i ended up having to be opened and my surgery lasted over 8

hours. i then had many complications while recovering in the

hospital (an infection, allergic reactions to medication, etc...).

my hospital stay was 12 days long and if it weren't for dr. ren and

gio, i would have gone out of my mind. they were extremely attentive

and concerned with me and my condition. dr. ren even came to visit

me on a sunday (her day off) to check on me.

everyone has to choose for themself whether weight loss surgery is

right for them, which surgery, and which surgeon. it is pointless

for people to argue about this. i just hope everyone is as happy

about their decision as i am.

kim

> Hi Ellyn -

>

> The question isn't her competence as a surgeon. The issue is her

attempt to

> dissuade people from having the DS using " data " that nobody has

ever seen,

> such as the " overrated pylorus " issue and the " pancreatic cancer "

scare

> tactic. Her suggestion that the BPD is superior is not an opinion

shared by

> other experienced surgeons.

>

> In the scheme of things, Ren is not one of the more experienced DS

surgeons.

> This is not a personal philosophy. It is based upon the time and

experience

> that she has with the procedure. Comparing her in terms of

experience to

> Gagner, Rabkin, Baltasar, Hess, McPherson and a host of others

would be

> ludicrous.

>

> She HAS had at least one serious issue doing the DS. Because you

were not

> that person does not eliminate the concern. I am very happy that

your

> surgery went well. Likewise, I am sad that Deb's did not.

>

> Even though Ren does the DS, it sure looks like you have to work

hard to get

> her to do it instead of falling for her apparent " bait and switch. "

>

> ly, I find some of the statements attributed to her about the

relative

> merit of the DS vs. the BPD to be a bit ludicrous. It is pretty

clear to me

> that she is uncomfortable with the complexity of the lap DS

procedure and

> still wants to earn a living doing WLS surgery that may " look " like

the DS.

> Doesn't having a valve to regulate the flow of material from the

stomach

> really sound like a neat idea? It sure does to me!

>

> Best -

>

> Nick in Sage

>

>

> Dr. Ren

>

>

> > I usually am just a lurker on the site, but I must take issue with

> something

> > I read about Dr. Ren. I had my BPD/DS on August 16th

by Dr.

> Ren.

> > Not only is she a VERY experienced surgeon, thorough and I might

> > add--BRILLIANT, but she is also continuing to do the DS on her

patients.

> >

> > I dont know where this erroneous information is coming from, but

it is NOT

> > from her. Further, when I went for my initial consultation with

her about

> my

> > surgery and which procedure I wanted to choose, Dr. Ren was QUITE

FRANK

> with

> > me about the dangers/benefits of EACH of the surgeries, including

the DS.

> We

> > cannot put our collective heads in the sand about the risk factors

> involved

> > in choosing these surgeries and further, the DS is still the most

> complicated

> > procedure SURGICALLY in comparison to the lap band and the RNY.

It would

> seem

> > to me that any surgeon worth his/her salt would be remiss in NOT

fully

> > informing their patients about the reality of these choices.

> >

> > Lastly, I cannot say enough about Dr. Ren's skill level. I would

> recommend

> > both her bedside manner and more importantly her surgical skills

to

> ANYONE.

> >

> > Her hesitancy if it can even be called that about doing the DS is

a

> realistic

> > one when faced with 4-6 hour surgeries on already compromised

patients.

> Lets

> > try to get our heads out of our collective butts when we

criticize these

> > doctors for being hesitant.

> >

> > Hesitancy does NOT equal saying no to a needy patient.

> >

> > BTW, I am doing great post-surgically. DUe to Dr. Ren's

expertise, I have

> > had minimal if non-existent post surgical complications and I am

proud to

> say

> > I am down 61 pounds since the surgery.

> >

> > Lastly, if this other Dr. is refusing to do the

surgery, please

> do

> > not lump her together with Dr. Ren.

> >

> > Thanks for the soapbox,

> > Ellyn

> > LAP BPD/DS

> > August 16th, 2001

> > starting weight 291

> > weight as of Monday, December 10th-230

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

ellyn.

i usually dont post either.. but i want to tell you that i went

to dr ren this october. you are right about her frankness which i

appreciated, but she did tell me that she was not doing the ds any

longer.. that AFTER she explained everything to me. she said the

pylorus valve was over rated and that there needed to be a study. we

had a lenghty conversation about it. she told me that i should have

the " band " , but agreed to do the bpd, even thought i went in for the

DS. now, im not challenging her skill or personality.. but that is

exactly what she told me on oct 9th.

[Guest guest]

DAMN! I LOVE my pylorus. For those who may not, call it " pylorus

envy " if you will, but I want mine just where it is, and functioning!

God help the proctor that comes between me and my doctor; but God

help the doctor who comes between me and my 'rus! [just wouldn't scan

with " pylorus']

Pucker, pucker, pucker, little pylorus,

I really love what you do for us;

Perched above the ileum,

Sending to the duodenum,

Just the right amounts of chyme;

Pucker on 'til the end of time.

--Steve (no, I won't quit my daytime job to become a poet)

--

[Guest guest]

> DAMN! I LOVE my pylorus. For those who may not, call it " pylorus

> envy " if you will, but I want mine just where it is, and functioning!

> God help the proctor that comes between me and my doctor; but God

> help the doctor who comes between me and my 'rus! [just wouldn't scan

> with " pylorus']

>

> Pucker, pucker, pucker, little pylorus,

> I really love what you do for us;

> Perched above the ileum,

> Sending to the duodenum,

> Just the right amounts of chyme;

> Pucker on 'til the end of time.

Steve, this is the best thing I've read all day! LOL!

I'd love to add it to the masthead of the DS website.

[Guest guest]

I couldn't have said it better, Ellyn! To the group, Dr. Ren did my lap DS

in July, 2001. At one week short of 5 months, I'm down 85 lb., have gone

from a 26-28 pant size to 16, and have had NO POST-OP COMPLICATIONS. She

trained with Gagner, was good enough for NYU to ask to head their bariatric

department and has on numerous occasions stated that if a patient is fully

aware of the ramifications (and possible complications) entailed in the

surgery as well as totally committed to having it done, she would do it.

This, to me, seems to be the hallmark of a cautious, careful physician

rather than a fearful, inexperienced one.

Marcia

Dr. Ren

I usually am just a lurker on the site, but I must take issue with something

I read about Dr. Ren. I had my BPD/DS on August 16th by Dr. Ren.

Not only is she a VERY experienced surgeon, thorough and I might

add--BRILLIANT, but she is also continuing to do the DS on her patients.

I dont know where this erroneous information is coming from, but it is NOT

from her. Further, when I went for my initial consultation with her about

my

surgery and which procedure I wanted to choose, Dr. Ren was QUITE FRANK with

me about the dangers/benefits of EACH of the surgeries, including the DS.

We

cannot put our collective heads in the sand about the risk factors involved

in choosing these surgeries and further, the DS is still the most

complicated

procedure SURGICALLY in comparison to the lap band and the RNY. It would

seem

to me that any surgeon worth his/her salt would be remiss in NOT fully

informing their patients about the reality of these choices.

Lastly, I cannot say enough about Dr. Ren's skill level. I would recommend

both her bedside manner and more importantly her surgical skills to ANYONE.

Her hesitancy if it can even be called that about doing the DS is a

realistic

one when faced with 4-6 hour surgeries on already compromised patients.

Lets

try to get our heads out of our collective butts when we criticize these

doctors for being hesitant.

Hesitancy does NOT equal saying no to a needy patient.

BTW, I am doing great post-surgically. DUe to Dr. Ren's expertise, I have

had minimal if non-existent post surgical complications and I am proud to

say

I am down 61 pounds since the surgery.

Lastly, if this other Dr. is refusing to do the surgery, please do

not lump her together with Dr. Ren.

Thanks for the soapbox,

Ellyn

LAP BPD/DS

August 16th, 2001

starting weight 291

weight as of Monday, December 10th-230

[Guest guest]

Thank God you haven't considered a career in poetry! Love it anyway!

M. in KC

Re: Dr. Ren

DAMN! I LOVE my pylorus. For those who may not, call it " pylorus

envy " if you will, but I want mine just where it is, and functioning!

God help the proctor that comes between me and my doctor; but God

help the doctor who comes between me and my 'rus! [just wouldn't scan

with " pylorus']

Pucker, pucker, pucker, little pylorus,

I really love what you do for us;

Perched above the ileum,

Sending to the duodenum,

Just the right amounts of chyme;

Pucker on 'til the end of time.

--Steve (no, I won't quit my daytime job to become a poet)

--

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I love your poem, Steve! Very cute! And I agree wholeheartedly!

Tracey in Santee (San Diego)

Dr. Keshishian 11/12/01

> DAMN! I LOVE my pylorus. For those who may not, call it " pylorus

> envy " if you will, but I want mine just where it is, and

functioning!

> God help the proctor that comes between me and my doctor; but God

> help the doctor who comes between me and my 'rus! [just wouldn't

scan

> with " pylorus']

>

> Pucker, pucker, pucker, little pylorus,

> I really love what you do for us;

> Perched above the ileum,

> Sending to the duodenum,

> Just the right amounts of chyme;

> Pucker on 'til the end of time.

>

> --Steve (no, I won't quit my daytime job to become a poet)

> --