A small victory!

[Guest guest]

> The issue is not the reversibility of the surgery. The issue is

your

> mother's support. She wanted to be reassured that you will not be

> permanently altered in a way that would be detrimental to you. It

is

> part of the protective nature of every mother. You have reassured

her

> enough for her to support your surgery and THAT is the true victory.

Exactly! That is the true victory I was sharing with you all on this

list. Al, I'm sorry if I sounded mad when I reponded to your post.

It's just that I was so elated that my mother came around and was

finally being supportive. It meant so much to me. And I felt let

down that the first response to that was one saying that I was wrong

about the reversibilty, when I was hoping for some " Yea!! Way to go!

Congrats! " type stuff.

> I didn't have my mothers support before I had surgery but she is so

> happy for me now.

>

> I hope that your mother's support puts the wind in your sails and

It did put some wind in my sails! I'm raring to go again.

you

> are able to move quickly through surgery and on to a new life that

> will be so brilliant and happy that you wont have to worry about

> getting anything reversed.

Thank you so much Machelle. Your support means a lot too.

Hugs,

[Guest guest]

Okay, okay, cut it out you guys. I didn't mean to start a war here.

I just wanted to share my good news that my mother finally decided to

begin supporting me through this procedure. Let's not fight about

this. Please?! Obviously, the stretching of the stomach varies from

person to person. And obviously different doctors tell their

patients different things regarding the reversability of the

procedure. But remember, we are all here to support one another in

having this surgery. I'm grateful to be a part of this list, and do

apologize, again, if my initial response in this thread heated things

up. Hugs to you all.

> Nick, I KNOW the intestinal part is reversible, I didn't say it

wasn't, I

> merely stated that my stomach was still only 5.5 ounces after being

19

> months out, and after almost 2 years I can still only eat under 6

oz., and

> that my dear is a fact. It states it in my operative report. I don't

> consider this even near pre-operative size. I am just stating that

it does

> vary. I think I do have the right to state the truth about myself

even if

> it is not the normal for what Doctors are telling their patients.

> Patti

> Re: Re: A small victory!

>

>

> > Patti -

> >

> > The intestinal part of the surgery is reversible - no question

about it!

> >

> > The stomach part cannot. That make no difference, anyway,

because the

> > stomach stretches back to near normal size.

> >

> > We're not talking philosophy here, we're talking facts. Case

closed!

> >

> > Nick in Sage

[Guest guest]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

tonz of congrats, doll... it does mean a lot when those you love come

around about surgery- my mom was skeptical until she met Dr. ..

then once she decided he was " the real deal, " I couldn't get a word in

edgewise! Its great, hmn?

Hugs,

Liane

[Guest guest]

Patti -

Look at the potential for the stomach to stretch. The fact that yours

hasn't may just relate to the fact that you are eating a very small volume

of food at a single time. I'm only 3 months out but I haven't really seen

much change in my volume for the past month or 6 weeks which is probably

attributable to the fact that I don't consume that much in a single sitting.

That being said, one (and maybe two!) anecdotal story doesn't change the

overall statistics very much.

Are you continuing to lose weight due to your still-small stomach? Does

your doctor have any thoughts on this situation?

Best-

Nick

Re: A small victory!

> >

> >

> > > Was Dr. your surgeon? He definitely told me that my stomach

> > > would strtch back to *near* normal size after a year, to where I

> > > could eat a normal sized meal, but with just a little bit smaller

> > > portions than pre-op. I don't remember if he gave me the exact number

> > > of ounces that it would hold. He said all of this with a fair amount

> > > of certainty. Perhaps when he does the surgery he makes the stomach

> > > a larger size than other doctors do? I don't know, but I'm just

> > > telling you all what he told me.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > This is very interesting, as when I had my revision at almost 19

> > > months out,

> > > > my stomach was only 5.5oz. as it was measured at that time. It was

> > > made to

> > > > 3 oz, at the time of my original DS. I don't think it is a

> > > standard rule

> > > > that we all stretch back, and I also thought we will never get back

> > > to the

> > > > original size.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> > >

[Guest guest]

--- In duodenalswitch@y..., " B. Standard " <hbstandard@p...>

>I don't appreciate your raining on my parade.

We disagree here, give our opinions, and sometimes we have different

opinions and sometimes we are wrong. Most folks try and accept these

differences. You'll get used to us.

Expect people to disagree with you sometimes. It happens. Hope that

isn't too uncomfortable for you. At least someone paid atention to

what you said! Be grateful for little blessings. <smile>

/Seattle

[Guest guest]

> --- In duodenalswitch@y..., " B. Standard "

<hbstandard@p...>

> >I don't appreciate your raining on my parade.

>

> We disagree here, give our opinions, and sometimes we have

different

> opinions and sometimes we are wrong. Most folks try and accept

these

> differences. You'll get used to us.

>

> Expect people to disagree with you sometimes. It happens. Hope

that

> isn't too uncomfortable for you. At least someone paid atention to

> what you said! Be grateful for little blessings. <smile>

>

> /Seattle

Yeah, but it would have been much nicer to hear " I'm glad that your

mother is now supportive. However, you might need to double check the

reversible part with your surgeon as mine says it is not

reversible. " I don't mind differences of opinion, I just don't like

a lack of respect. I truly did feel my parade had been rained on.

[Guest guest]

I can understand that you had some uncomfortable feelings, .

And that you wanted something you didn't immediately get. Sometimes

we react to some small portion of a post and not the overall intent

of the one who writes it. Seems that happened here. And yes, we are

not always as tactful as we could be.

I live in Seattle where it rains on parades, parties, weddings, and

all other assorted events. We always get to chose how to respond to

life's rainfall. Just like living in Seattle, I don't think we can

stop life's rain from falling. We can choose to enjoy our wet faces,

laugh at our messed up hairdos, and keep an unbrella handy. I love

the sunshine also. But rain happens. On my parades-- both literally

and figuratively.

One way I have observed people getting what they want, is to ask for

it. I think you might have had lots more congrats if you'd posted

a " celebrate with me " post. I was delighted to read that your mom

was supporting you. I've seen many folks here struggle with lack of

family support. My mom is supportive also, and I have been supportive

of my daughter who also had the DS.

Congrats on having your mom's support. You deserve it!

, rained on in Seattle

> Yeah, but it would have been much nicer to hear " I'm glad that your

> mother is now supportive. However, you might need to double check

the

> reversible part with your surgeon as mine says it is not

> reversible. " I don't mind differences of opinion, I just don't

like

> a lack of respect. I truly did feel my parade had been rained on.

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/24/01 5:59:35 AM, duodenalswitch writes:

<< I don't mind differences of opinion, I just don't like

a lack of respect. I truly did feel my parade had been rained on.

>>

: I'm really sorry to hear that you feel this way -- I recall there

only being one reasponse in which anyone said 'the surgery is not

reversable'. Everyone else counteracted that it WAS reversible. I honestly

don't think anyone was trying to rain on your parade or not respect you.

There was one poster who thought that the surgery was not reversable and many

people responded that it WAS. There was a brief discussion about just how

much the stomach does/can stretch post-surgically as well (some giving their

experiences that it hasn't stretched that much).

I think most of the people (besides Machelle) focused on the technical issues

of post-op stomach size or reversal of the intestinal portion of the surgery

rather than the fact that your mother was positive about your undergoing the

surgery. Perhaps this is what caused you to feel deflated about your news?

I think it's great that your mom supports you. My mom is morbidly obese and

she flew out to help me post-op. It was so helpful especially with my two

young children. She was initially hesitant about the surgery but more open

to it when she read more about it and actually met post-ops at a support

meeting.

All the best,

Noverr-Chin

co-moderator, duodenalswitch

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

almost 10 months post-op and still feelin' fabu

preop: 307 lbs/bmi 45

now: 204 lbs (gained 3 lbs!)/size sweet 16/large-MEDIUM in normal people's

clothing

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/24/01 12:31:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,

duodenalswitch writes:

<< Hi -

Let me be sure I understand. You have your way of expressing yourself and

we're all supposed to follow that standard. Perhaps we should have you pass

on how we state our opinions before they are posted. We can call it the

" Pablumization " program. Then every post would be phrased in the way that

you would prefer to read them.

>>

Hey, - don't take Nick's comments personally. He is really a nice

guy. He just doesn't want anyone to *know* that! He used to make snide

comments to me, too, but he just likes to banter......right, Nick? You are

an attorney, right? Or am I wrong about that? Anyway, if you aren't, maybe

you should have been! :-)

As far am Mom's opinions go......mine said " it would just be easier to go on

a diet " -----yeah, right! Like the 25 diets I have been on in my life haven't

been enough to prove that dieting doesn't work for me! She wanted me to go

to my Aunt's dietician, since my Aunt lost 50 lbs. (well, I wonder when good

old Auntie will gain back the 50? Like maybe as soon as she goes *off* her

diet?) And then when that didn't work, she said " who is going to take care

of you? " That kind of hurt......ouch.......but I decided I was *not no way*

going to let her talk me out of this and I would do the best I could on my

own. sometimes I just have to ask myself how would I cope with life if I

didn't have any family? and live my life *that* way......and I used to live

in CA and AZ thousands of miles away and got *used* to not relying on them

for anything. So, I figured I'd make it on my own one way or another. As it

is, I have a friend who will drop me off at the hospital, but I told her she

doesn't need to stay around, since I will have nurses to take care of me

(going to Wood County Hosp in Bowling Green) and she has agreed to pick me up

when I get out and stay with me at her boyfriend's cabin (really a small

house) in Sandusky, 1 1/2 hrs from Bowling Green for 3 days till I go back

for staples out, and then drive me home. From there, I take it on my own,

except my Mom will watch my 3 maltese dog/babies while I am recuperating and

said she'd run to the grocery store for me if I need stuff like popsickles,

etc. that I have read others have had post-op. So, Mom still isn't real

supportive, but knows I am doing this no matter what, and is going along with

it.........when I was a kid of 15, I went to a " diet spa " in Florida on my

own, no friends came along.....that was the first time I did something myself

for me, the hell with if anyone else came along or not.........and it was a

good lesson. I gotta do what I gotta do for *me* no matter who supports me

or not.

Having said that, *this* group of people have been very supportive and

educational and have helped me keep my resolve and led and guided me every

step of the way up till now and will continue to help through my journey. I

*know* I would not be as convinced that I am doing the right thing without

all of YOU. I appreciate you all SO MUCH. Carole

[Guest guest]

Hi -

Let me be sure I understand. You have your way of expressing yourself and

we're all supposed to follow that standard. Perhaps we should have you pass

on how we state our opinions before they are posted. We can call it the

" Pablumization " program. Then every post would be phrased in the way that

you would prefer to read them.

Nah - that's too much trouble and would make all my future posts entirely

too bland.

Best -

Nick in Sage

Re: A small victory!

>

> > --- In duodenalswitch@y..., " B. Standard "

> <hbstandard@p...>

> > >I don't appreciate your raining on my parade.

> >

> > We disagree here, give our opinions, and sometimes we have

> different

> > opinions and sometimes we are wrong. Most folks try and accept

> these

> > differences. You'll get used to us.

> >

> > Expect people to disagree with you sometimes. It happens. Hope

> that

> > isn't too uncomfortable for you. At least someone paid atention to

> > what you said! Be grateful for little blessings. <smile>

> >

> > /Seattle

>

> Yeah, but it would have been much nicer to hear " I'm glad that your

> mother is now supportive. However, you might need to double check the

> reversible part with your surgeon as mine says it is not

> reversible. " I don't mind differences of opinion, I just don't like

> a lack of respect. I truly did feel my parade had been rained on.

>

>

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

,

Let me tell you when it comes to parents you can never win...Wanna hear my mom's

response to WLS? Do it just do it didnt matter what procedure risk? What risks?

I was like hey I could die during this procedure she was like then ya shouldnt

have gotten so fat...I was like damn.....LOL parents ya cant live with them and

ya cant live with out them...I am glad your mom came around....

Lisbeth

Exactly! That is the true victory I was sharing with you all on this

list. Al, I'm sorry if I sounded mad when I reponded to your post.

It's just that I was so elated that my mother came around and was

finally being supportive. It meant so much to me. And I felt let

down that the first response to that was one saying that I was wrong

about the reversibilty, when I was hoping for some " Yea!! Way to go!

Congrats! " type stuff.

> I didn't have my mothers support before I had surgery but she is so

> happy for me now.

>

> I hope that your mother's support puts the wind in your sails and

It did put some wind in my sails! I'm raring to go again.

you

> are able to move quickly through surgery and on to a new life that

> will be so brilliant and happy that you wont have to worry about

> getting anything reversed.

Thank you so much Machelle. Your support means a lot too.

Hugs,

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Well, your surgeon has a different surgery than mine I was told it would only

double its post-surgical size not go back to its original size and that if

there were problems the intestinal by-pass could be reversed.

Nadine Michigan

DR Hares

DS on Oct 2 2001

down 61 + pounds

[Guest guest]

- Hi If you have a problem with someone on the list could you please

write to them directly so that we all don't have to be party to this. I can

appreciate you being upset but let that person know privately. I have too

many E-mails to read that I feel are much more helpful and important. Thank

you Ellen

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/24/01 4:19:53 PM, duodenalswitch writes:

<< Hey, - don't take Nick's comments personally. He is really a nice

guy. He just doesn't want anyone to *know* that! He used to make snide

comments to me, too, but he just likes to banter......right, Nick? You are

an attorney, right? Or am I wrong about that? Anyway, if you aren't, maybe

you should have been! :-)

>>

: I definately agree here. Nick can be rather... how can we say...

contentious. It has annoyed me in the past (there - I admit it, N-man!

ROFL) and I've thought that he's reacted rather boldly/strongly to people's

honest expressions of emotion... but that's just how he is!!

I think he does mean well just has a lot of sarcasm in his voice. :)

all the best,

Noverr-Chin, co-moderator/duodenal switch

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

almost 10 months post-op and still feelin' fabu

preop: 307 lbs/bmi 45

now: 202 lbs/size sweet 16/large-MEDIUM in normal people's clothing

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/24/01 4:19:53 PM, duodenalswitch writes:

<<

> we react to some small portion of a post and not the overall intent

> of the one who writes it. Seems that happened here.

Well no, actually that wasn't what happened here because his entire

post was one sentence:

" DS should not be considered reversable. You really should clear

this up with your surgeon. "

There's pretty much no misunderstanding of that intent.

>>

So, : You are REALLY upset at the one poster who stated the opposite

of what you thought? Or, are you upset at all the others (myself included)

who had a dialogue about the issues you brought up?

I think was referring to all the OTHER posters who responded -- none of

these people said that the surgery wasn't reversable but did debate whether

the stomach stretched back to 'normal' size, etc.... was mentioning

that all the responses focused on the technical aspects of surgery reversal

and post-op stomach size, not the acceptance of your mother towards the

surgery and how GREAT that helped you in preparing for your own surgery.

I don't think the original poster had any ill intent here, IMHO. I think

he had a point in stating that the DS shouldn't be 'considered' reversable in

the sense that it is a serious operation if it is reversed (i.e. -- the

stomach isn't reversable but the intestinal portion is). Surgeons may not be

so eager to reverse the DS but I'm sure that if the malapsorption were

causing major health problems, etc. the surgeon WOULD rectify the situation

by either lengthening the common channel or reversing the intestinal portion.

I mean, technically the RNY is 'reversible' but when I asked Dr. GAgner if

this were a real possibility he said 'not really'. I mean, you can put the

stomach back together but will it function normally? I think the intestinal

hookup would fare better than the RNY reversal but I don't think surgeons

have really had this experience (yet) and we just don't know the

ramifications.

Honestly, I haven't known ANYONE who has had the surgery actually reversed.

I've known of a few (Patti Skiba is one -- she responded to your post) who

had revisions done to lengthen/shorten (in Patti's case - shorten) the common

channel. Theoretically, yes -- one can put the intestines back the way they

originally were. I just don't think many surgeons (if any?) have actually

had to do this and we don't know all the ramifications of what *might* happen

or the risks that the patient *may* experience in a reversal surgery,

especially if it is done at an advanced age.

So, I personally didn't find the original poster's response offensive. I

thought it may not have been totally accurate (in that the DS IS partially

reversible), but his concern about undergoing such a revision is a real

concern I think for any post-op. It certainly provides a great security to

know that if the surgery posed a great health risk one COULD partially 'undo'

what had been done.

all the best,

NOverr-Chin

co-moderator, duodenalswitch list

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

almost 10 months post-op and still feelin' fabu

preop: 307 lbs/bmi 45 (5' 10 " )

now: 202 lbs/size sweet 16/large-MEDIUM in normal people's clothing!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/24/01 7:45:02 PM, duodenalswitch writes:

<< No, that is not why we are here now. It was due to a *string* of posts

that

started with me sharing something I was excited about, which was the whole

point

of my post. Then someone said that I was wrong about the reversibility. Then

when I said I felt hurt by being told I was wrong, and explained that the

reason for my post was because I wanted was some celebration, someone else

popped up and said that I asked for that in the wrong way. Then someone else

says that I am trying to dictate how people respond to my posts. My " wounded

reaction " was not what got things out of hand. It was the repeated examples

given of how " wrong " I am. And to top it off a moderator blasts me and says

I

caused the whole thing. Sheesh. I thought we were here to help one another.

I

suppose I was wrong for getting my feelings hurt too? I'll try not to do that

in the future.

>>

: I think that you will find to be an extremely balanced,

fair person. I don't think she means to blast you at all. I think it is

extremely confusing as to WHY you are upset and got upset by this guy's

post...

First off, you were offended that he seemd to insinuate that you were not

'educated' about the surgery by saying that he wouldn't recommend people

thinking the surgery is reversible. Then, you mention that no one talked

about your mom's acceptance. When pointed this out -- that this may be

the reason you were getting increasingly frustrated with people's responses

(the focus became only on the technicalities of the surgery -- not the real

reason you were so excited), you said SHE didn't get it -- that you thought

the responder's post was rude by insinuating that you were uneducated!

So, I am pretty perplexed myself, I must admit. I honestly think that,

with the exception of Nick's rather terse responses, no one in any way meant

to imply you were not educated or offended in any way. I think that your

original post was not really clear as to what you were focusing on -- People

picked up on the technical aspect of reversiblity and post-op stomach size

whereas you really wanted acknowledgement of your victory (as the title of

the thread even implies). Some people then did see this and provided

positive feedback on this issue, relating personal experiences and such (with

leading the way on this one, I think). Then, you went back to the issue

of how offensive the thread became in general (when really you were referring

to two people --- the original responder -- can't remember his name -sorry --

and Nick) and how no one addressed your issues! :)

I think THIS is what is referring to when she said that the issue

escalated because of your expectations and perhaps people's confusion over

what was important about the original post. Just miscommunication all

around... I don't think it's a big issue and I hope it's been clarified...

There is no ground war or anything like that, IMHO.

all the best,

NOverr-Chin

co-moderator, duodenalswitch

lap ds with gallbladder removal

January 25, 2001

Dr. GAgner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

almost 10 months post-op and still feelin' fabu

preop: 307 lbs/bmi 45

now: 202 lbs/size sweet 16/large-MEDIUM in normal people's clothing!

[Guest guest]

> we react to some small portion of a post and not the overall intent

> of the one who writes it. Seems that happened here.

Well no, actually that wasn't what happened here because his entire

post was one sentence:

" DS should not be considered reversable. You really should clear

this up with your surgeon. "

There's pretty much no misunderstanding of that intent.

> One way I have observed people getting what they want, is to ask

for

> it. I think you might have had lots more congrats if you'd posted

> a " celebrate with me " post.

So the title " A small victory " was not enough to imply that I wanted

celebration? To me that sounds like a matter of semantics. Usually,

if one has a victory there is a celebration.

We can't help the weather in Seattle, but we can't help whether or

not we are rude to our listmates.

[Guest guest]

Nick,

I have really appreciated the information that you have sent me

personally. You have been a big help. But for the life of me I

cannot understand why would want to inflame this thread further by

belittling me and making fun of my feelings. I never said anyone

should say things they way I want them to. I simply said that it was

hurtful that I got a response that was very unsupportive when I was

looking for support. People can say whatever they want and I can

react to what they say however I want.

This has gotten redicously out of hand. All I wanted to do was to

tell you all that my mom had finally come around and I was happy

about it. I never intended to start a ground war.

> Hi -

>

> Let me be sure I understand. You have your way of expressing

yourself and

> we're all supposed to follow that standard. Perhaps we should have

you pass

> on how we state our opinions before they are posted. We can call

it the

> " Pablumization " program. Then every post would be phrased in the

way that

> you would prefer to read them.

>

> Nah - that's too much trouble and would make all my future posts

entirely

> too bland.

>

> Best -

>

> Nick in Sage

[Guest guest]

> We can't help the weather in Seattle, but we can't help whether or

> not we are rude to our listmates.

, you may have perceived it as a rude comment, but from my

standpoint, there was not a thing rude in the words, " DS should not be

considered reversable. You really should clear this up with your

surgeon. "

Where is the rudeness there? It seems to me that the gentleman was

reacting (as said) to a part of your post that raised a flag for

him. This forum exists for support and education. He was trying to

educate. I saw no rudeness whatsoever in the words that he used, nor did

I perceive any rudeness in his tone.

M. (DS list moderator)

---

in Valrico, FL, age 39

Lap DGB/DS by Dr. Rabkin 10/19/99

Starting weight 299, now 153

Starting BMI 49.7, now 25.5

Starting size 26/28, now 10/12

http://www.duodenalswitch.com/Patients/M/melaniem.html

Direct replies: mailto:melanie@...

[Guest guest]

> I simply said that it was hurtful that I got a response that was

> very unsupportive when I was looking for support.

I didn't see anything " unsupportive " about the gentleman's reaction. He

was trying to be helpful.

> This has gotten redicously out of hand. All I wanted to do was to

> tell you all that my mom had finally come around and I was happy

> about it. I never intended to start a ground war.

Your wounded reaction to receiving a post that didn't meet 100% of your

expectations was the catalyst for this getting " out of hand " . People

responded to your reaction, and that is why we are here now.

[Guest guest]

> : I definately agree here. Nick can be rather... how can we say...

> contentious. It has annoyed me in the past (there - I admit it, N-man!

> ROFL) and I've thought that he's reacted rather boldly/strongly to people's

>

> honest expressions of emotion... but that's just how he is!!

>

I'm sure is just being how she is, too.

As am I, at this moment.

Michele B.

[Guest guest]

,

Keep in mind that one cannot indicate tone in email...and the written

word is not always black and white as it appears. Hurt feelings

occur when offense was not intended.

You can claim hurt feelings as that's how you felt. But note too

that I think most who read your original post were celebrating the

fact that your mom is now on board with your surgery. I was one of

them...I just don't post often.

With regards to the surgery being reversible...and the clarification

provided by the many who posted, I read no posts that pointedly

slapped you in the face. Actually, I think those who posted really

just wanted to make sure that you were aware that DS is NOT 100%

reversible, revisible yes, reversible, no. Those who pointed this

out were not offensibly doing so, IMHO.

With that, congrats on your mom coming to her senses (grin) and best

to you as you pursue DS!

Cheers,

Amy

Dr. Jossart

12/5/01

[Guest guest]

Ellen,

I am in shock of your outright meanness in sending this to me " on-

list. " Surely you knew it would be hurtful and embarassing to me.

And in asking me to take things off-list, you could have done the

same thing here, rather than embarassing my in front of everyone.

All I ever did was reply to what people wrote to me on-list. I don't

have a " problem " with any one person, I was simply responding to

reponses to my original letter. I'm sorry my feelings are

not " helpful or important " to you.

I think I have taken entirely too much crap for simply wanting to

share a good thing that happened in my life and getting my feelings

hurt in the preocess. You have again really hurt my feelings with

this post. I can't believe that so many of you could be so mean to

pick on someone when you know they are down. We have lots of

discussions on this list where people disagree - why do you choose

this particular instance to strike out at me?

I'm just going to unsubscribe. I'm not doing so to get attention, I

simply don't want to be in a group of people who can be so hurtful to

one another.

> - Hi If you have a problem with someone on the list could

you please

> write to them directly so that we all don't have to be party to

this. I can

> appreciate you being upset but let that person know privately. I

have too

> many E-mails to read that I feel are much more helpful and

important. Thank

> you Ellen

[Guest guest]

> > , you may have perceived it as a rude comment, but from my

> > standpoint, there was not a thing rude in the words, " DS

> > should not be considered reversable. You really should clear this

> > up with your surgeon. "

>

> It felt rude to me because he was implying that I didn't know

> what I was talking about.

You were inferring that, . His few words did not imply any such

thing.

> > Your wounded reaction to receiving a post that didn't meet

> > 100% of your expectations was the catalyst for this getting

> > " out of hand " . People responded to your reaction, and that

> > is why we are here now.

>

> No, that is not why we are here now. It was due to a

> *string* of posts that started with me sharing something

> I was excited about, which was the whole point

> of my post. Then someone said that I was wrong about the

> reversibility. Then when I said I felt hurt by being told

> I was wrong

That's just what I said! LOL

> My " wounded reaction " was not what got things out of hand.

> It was the repeated examples given of how " wrong " I am.

, you are taking it all way too personally. I think once the

topic got onto the reversibilty of the DS, from that point on, it HAD

NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU, even though you clearly think it was a repeated

effort on the list members' part to make you feel wrong. That's not what

it was. It was a discussion that was completely on topic for this list;

a discussion about various people's understanding of the DS's

reversibility. That's all it was -- it wasn't all about at that

point.

> And to top it off a moderator blasts me and says I

> caused the whole thing. Sheesh. I thought we were here to

> help one another.

We are here to help one another, and sharing what our various doc have

told us is part of that sharon.

> I suppose I was wrong for getting my feelings hurt too? I'll

> try not to do that in the future.

Thanks.

[Guest guest]

Well, okay, I guess I have to explain a bit of my thinking on this one.

First, at age 60, it is a bit hard for me to relate to my whether or not I

have my Mom's approval. If she was alive today, I probably wouldn't have

had it. Being that I was having surgery for me, I wouldn't have cared a

bit. Accordingly, I probably don't have the appropriate level of

identification with this victory.

Secondly, what we post here is read by many people, some of whom are reading

and learning from what we say. If someone posts something that is

erroneous, we own an obligation to the newbies to set the record straight.

This is not a position that I am likely to abandon.

Best-

Nick in Sage - who admits to being a bit contentious at times but who is

really a teddy bear at heart.

Re: Re: A small victory!

>

> In a message dated 11/24/01 4:19:53 PM, duodenalswitch

writes:

>

> << Hey, - don't take Nick's comments personally. He is really a

nice

> guy. He just doesn't want anyone to *know* that! He used to make snide

> comments to me, too, but he just likes to banter......right, Nick? You

are

> an attorney, right? Or am I wrong about that? Anyway, if you aren't,

maybe

> you should have been! :-)

> >>

>

> : I definately agree here. Nick can be rather... how can we

say...

> contentious. It has annoyed me in the past (there - I admit it, N-man!

> ROFL) and I've thought that he's reacted rather boldly/strongly to

people's

> honest expressions of emotion... but that's just how he is!!

>

> I think he does mean well just has a lot of sarcasm in his voice. :)

>

> all the best,

> Noverr-Chin, co-moderator/duodenal switch

> lap ds with gallbladder removal

> January 25, 2001

> Dr. Gagner/Mt. Sinai/NYC

>

> almost 10 months post-op and still feelin' fabu

>

> preop: 307 lbs/bmi 45

> now: 202 lbs/size sweet 16/large-MEDIUM in normal people's clothing

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>