Re: Subject: Cured Diabetics

[Guest guest]

Carole:

You're right, my dear. Look at my post " Yes, diabetes CURED. "

Best,

> In a message dated 11/29/01 11:22:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> duodenalswitch@y... writes:

>

> << OK I have to jump in on this.

> Diabetes, even type ll diabetes, is not cured by the DS, but is

~controlled~

> by weight loss. Right now there is no

> cure for diabetes other than a pancreatic organ replacement.

> It's important for diabetics to continue to test to make sure

their blood

> glucose level remains low. >>

>

> That isn't what Dr. Hess says. Dr. Hess says it is " cured " . I am

pretty

> sure he says this in his medical paper, but I *know* he said to

directly to

> me on the phone. He said one of my measures was high on the blood

work and I

> was *borderline* diabetic, I freaked and then he said " but don't

worry, its

> cured with this. " I then sent the bloodwork to my PCP and he said

that one

> value did not make me diabetic. But anyway, that is what Dr. Hess

told me.

> Carole

[Guest guest]

I think the word " cured " is just semantics. I agree that once you

have diabetes you have it for the rest of your life regardless of

whether you are symptomatic or not. The disease does go into

remission, and in cancer terms, 5 years of remission is " cured " and

in terms of diabetes, no need for medication appears to mean " cured "

but the gene that causes diabetes does not go away.

To reinforce what quoted in the Scopinaro report, that post

DS diet and weight loss do not seem to be the influencing factor

that " cures " the diabetes.

Ok...now what the hell did I just say?

Theresa

DS Dr. Jossart

11-19-01

-14#s

> In a message dated 11/29/01 11:22:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> duodenalswitch@y... writes:

>

> << OK I have to jump in on this.

> Diabetes, even type ll diabetes, is not cured by the DS, but is

~controlled~

> by weight loss. Right now there is no

> cure for diabetes other than a pancreatic organ replacement.

> It's important for diabetics to continue to test to make sure

their blood

> glucose level remains low. >>

>

> That isn't what Dr. Hess says. Dr. Hess says it is " cured " . I am

pretty

> sure he says this in his medical paper, but I *know* he said to

directly to

> me on the phone. He said one of my measures was high on the blood

work and I

> was *borderline* diabetic, I freaked and then he said " but don't

worry, its

> cured with this. " I then sent the bloodwork to my PCP and he said

that one

> value did not make me diabetic. But anyway, that is what Dr. Hess

told me.

> Carole

[Guest guest]

LOL Theresa! You said, Type II Diabetes is " cured " by weight loss.

Note the quotation marks.

Type II Diabetes is a big mystery, but they know that weight loss

makes it go away. Weight gain incurs a high probability of it coming

back. Hence, since a major " side effect " of the DS surgery is weight

loss, the symptoms of Type II Diabetes go away.

Gotta love semantics,

maria

At 9:26 AM -0800 11/30/01, Theresa wrote:

>I think the word " cured " is just semantics. I agree that once you

>have diabetes you have it for the rest of your life regardless of

>whether you are symptomatic or not. The disease does go into

>remission, and in cancer terms, 5 years of remission is " cured " and

>in terms of diabetes, no need for medication appears to mean " cured "

>but the gene that causes diabetes does not go away.

>

>To reinforce what quoted in the Scopinaro report, that post

>DS diet and weight loss do not seem to be the influencing factor

>that " cures " the diabetes.

>

>Ok...now what the hell did I just say?

>

>Theresa

>DS Dr. Jossart

>11-19-01

>-14#s

>

>

>> In a message dated 11/29/01 11:22:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,

>> duodenalswitch@y... writes:

>>

>> << OK I have to jump in on this.

>> Diabetes, even type ll diabetes, is not cured by the DS, but is

>~controlled~

>> by weight loss. Right now there is no

>> cure for diabetes other than a pancreatic organ replacement.

>> It's important for diabetics to continue to test to make sure

>their blood

>> glucose level remains low. >>

>>

>> That isn't what Dr. Hess says. Dr. Hess says it is " cured " . I am

>pretty

>> sure he says this in his medical paper, but I *know* he said to

>directly to

>> me on the phone. He said one of my measures was high on the blood

>work and I

>> was *borderline* diabetic, I freaked and then he said " but don't

>worry, its

>> cured with this. " I then sent the bloodwork to my PCP and he said

>that one

>> value did not make me diabetic. But anyway, that is what Dr. Hess

>told me.

>> Carole

>

>----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

,

I'm claiming the exact opposite of what you are. Here's my posting

from last night to Elle (slightly modified):

Elle et al:

Information from Scopinaro's report states that 100% of the diabetics

who participated in the study were cured of diabetes, and that the

cure could not be attributed to loss of weight in and of itself, but

to the " SPECIFIC ACTION OF BPD ON GLUCOSE METABOLISM. " WEIGHT LOSS

HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! Hess claims that Type II diabetes is

cured by the BPD. You gotta give me better arguments than these to

make me change my tune.

Best,

From Scopinaro's Report:

" In fact, out of the 1773 (total series) AHS BPD patients with a

minimum follow-up of one year, not only the 248 (14%) with

preoperative simple hyperglycemia, nor only the 108 (6.1%) with type

II diabetes mellitus manageable with oral hypoglycemics, but also the

32 (1.8%) patients with preoperative type II diabetes mellitus

requiring insulin therapy, one year after BPD and permanently

thereafter had normal serum glucose level without any medication and

on totally free diet. Comprehensibly, this is accompanied by serum

insulin levels normalization, as demonstrated by us in cross-

sectional (22) and longitudinal (serum insulin in 53 AHS BPD

subjects: preop. 18±10 mcU/ml; at 1 year 5.2±2.3; at 2 years 4.6±2.0;

at 3 years 6.0±3.1; controls 6.9±2.6; ANOVA: each group vs. preop.

<.0001) studies, as well as normalization of insulin-sensitivity

(Table 6). "

" Considering that about 20 percent of type II diabetes mellitus

patients are not obese, and about 20 percent of formerly obese

patients with type II diabetes mellitus still require insulin therapy

after weight normalization by dieting, it must be concluded that

simple weight loss or intraabdominal fat reduction cannot account for

the observed 100 percent recovery from type II diabetes mellitus

after BPD. Actually, our preoperatively diabetic patients had on the

average normal serum glucose concentration already one month after

operation, when the excess weight was still over 80%, this also

indicating a specific action of BPD on glucose metabolism. The latter

could be identified with the virtual annulment of the entero-insular

axis. Indeed, serum GIP concentration shows after BPD a substantially

flat curve in response to the test meal, along with normalization of

basal and meal-stimulated serum insulin levels (10). "

From Hess's report:

" Bariatric surgery has been known to improve or cure diabetes

mellitus6. With the biliopancreatic bypass and the duodenal switch we

have operated on 36 diabetics, all Type II, of which 18 of them are

non-insulin dependent and 18 were insulin dependent. One patient was

taking as high as 500 units of insulin a day, but generally they were

taking insulin in the range of 40 to 50 units per day. The non-

insulin dependent patients would leave the hospital after surgery

taking no medication and have continued taking no medication since

their surgery. The insulin dependent diabetics would occasionally

take a small amount of insulin or a hypoglycemic agent for a short

time, but never more than two months following surgery. All of the

above patients, after a few months and up to seven years following

surgery, are taking no medication of any type for their diabetes. All

of them have normal blood sugars as indicated in the graph showing

the pre-operative average blood sugar and the post-operative average

blood sugar on all these patients up to 5 years (Figure 8). The

present glycosylated hemoglobin average for this group is 5.0%

(normal reference range is 4.2%-5.9%). We can say without hesitation

for the obese Type II diabetic, this surgery will cure their

diabetes. "

> >> In a message dated 11/29/01 11:22:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> >> duodenalswitch@y... writes:

> >>

> >> << OK I have to jump in on this.

> >> Diabetes, even type ll diabetes, is not cured by the DS, but is

> >~controlled~

> >> by weight loss. Right now there is no

> >> cure for diabetes other than a pancreatic organ replacement.

> >> It's important for diabetics to continue to test to make sure

> >their blood

> >> glucose level remains low. >>

> >>

> >> That isn't what Dr. Hess says. Dr. Hess says it is " cured " . I

am

> >pretty

> >> sure he says this in his medical paper, but I *know* he said to

> >directly to

> >> me on the phone. He said one of my measures was high on the

blood

> >work and I

> >> was *borderline* diabetic, I freaked and then he said " but don't

> >worry, its

> >> cured with this. " I then sent the bloodwork to my PCP and he

said

> >that one

> >> value did not make me diabetic. But anyway, that is what Dr.

Hess

> >told me.

> >> Carole

> >

> >-------------------------------------------------------------------

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> >