Re: believe it or not! (Carole and RNY list)

[Guest guest]

Hey, Carole,

These people must be masochists to think like that. What do they think they

are doing to their bodies with " hoping " for " severe " dumping? I just don't

get why anyone would want to do that to themselves, when the opportunity to

have these surgeries is truly a gift to us, not a punishment. If it wasn't

for these amazing doctors who researched a way for us to have a better,

healthier life if we wanted one and then to have many insurance companies

even pay for it, to me, is a gift from God, and should be respected. I hope

these people do not end up getting approved, because they are doing this for

the wrong reasons, all the wrong reasons. Perhaps they are only writing

these notes to be antagonistic and are not people who are in serious need of

this great miracle. I'm with you on what you write!

Vickie

[Guest guest]

ATTN: If you only want happy-DS-talk, please don't read any

further.

Vicki, you wrote:

> These people must be masochists to think like that. What

do they think they

> are doing to their bodies with " hoping " for " severe "

dumping?

I think that those of us who own computers and are connected

to the internet and are literate enough to do in-depth

research get a skewed view of the world outside the WWW.

Many people are illiterate and have no one but their doctors

to rely upon for advice and information.

Many people don't own a computer.

Many people who do own a computer don't know how to use it

for anything - word-processing, e-mail, anything, and don't

want to learn, it's too intimidating, it belongs to their

kids and there's no way in hell they're going to ask their

14 year old daughter to look up weight loss surgery for

them. (stay with me, I'm trying to be comprehensive and cast

my net wide enough to catch em all)

Many people who are literate and who do own a computer and

who do have the skills to navigate the web might be like me.

I heard about WLS on the news, I immediately got on the

internet and started searching around for " stomach stapling "

and was led to the OSSG main list. I joined thinking " great,

now I can access real information from real people " . I was

on that list for a couple of weeks and slowly worked my way

back through the threads in the archived messages but didn't

notice anything about DS. Finally someone posted a message

about something and mentioned DS and so I asked about it.

I could have been on that list for who knows how long before

there was any mention of DS.

I just don't

> get why anyone would want to do that to themselves, when

the opportunity to

> have these surgeries is truly a gift to us, not a

punishment.

I think that if you are offered one option, as many are by

their doctors, they have to rationalize the horrible quality

of life they're faced with if they have this surgery. I was

doing the same thing, thinking anything is better than

weighing 300 lbs., I'm willing to endure the mechanisms that

will be set in motion, dumping, vomiting, picking at my food

and chewing it forever, etc.

If it wasn't

> for these amazing doctors who researched a way for us to

have a better,

> healthier life if we wanted one and then to have many

insurance companies

> even pay for it,

Many people can't afford the expense of having a DS (money

up-front in the hopes the insurance company will come

around, travel to a different state or a different country

if all else fails) and again, many people don't even know

this surgery exists.

to me, is a gift from God, and should be respected. I hope

> these people do not end up getting approved,

I do, because I think it's better than nothing, a crappy

quality of life is better than dying. I'm really looking

forward to the responses I'm going to get from this reply so

I'll first of all request that you reread my reply before

jumping all over me and you will see that I am not DS

bashing. And I'll just throw in the facts that 1) I have

chosen the DS and 2) I think RNY'ers deserve my compassion

and empathy and 3) I personally feel that I owe it to them

to try and expose them to DS.

because they are doing this for

> the wrong reasons, all the wrong reasons.

I'd be willing to bet that their motivation is exactly the

same as ours. It's the method that differs drastically.

Perhaps they are only writing

> these notes to be antagonistic and are not people who are

in serious need of

> this great miracle.

Again, I'd be willing to bet that their motivation is

exactly the same as ours. It's the method that differs

drastically.

I'm not criticizing you at all Vicki, I'm just disagreeing.

Pardon the rant, but " I was there " , " I was them " , so I feel

compelled to speak in their behalf. Yes, I know this is a DS

list, but if people keep bringing up the RNY'ers, I'm going

to respond like this if I disagree with their portrayal of

the typical RNY'er. I'm tired of the childish battle that

goes on between DS'ers and RNY'ers. I'm not trying to turn

anyone away from DS, I'm not saying RNY is better, I'm

simply speaking the truth as I see it and hoping that maybe

one person on this list will have gained a little more

perspective on the topic of RNY and why some people make the

choices they make. Lemme have it with both barrels for

daring to buck the party line that RNY'ers are of inferior

intellect.

Well, I'm off to join a few RNY lists and see how long I'm

allowed to post before I get moderated. But that's ok, there

are a few tricks I learned by being on the front lines of a

list belonging to none other than The Mistress of

Misinformation, the Dominatrix of Disinformation, the one,

the only Sue W.

Jean.

[Guest guest]

Jean--

I think you may have the most rational and balanced view on this

topic. The RNY is most prevalent out there--we have to deal with that-

-maybe Kim and Graydowney are legitimately researching wls--our

tactful and concerned responses go alot further than some of the

bashing that was doled out.

I am just as passionate about the DS as anyone on this group--but

when someone who is completly ignorant of the benefits of the DS

shows up here--we need to teach, clarify, refer to cited articles,

not get emotional and attack. They speak from ignorance--we may only

have this one chance to get them to look at the DS--do you really

want to blow that chance with a prideful--I know better than you

response?

Maybe the recent folks who came had different motives, but I think

some of us put them on the defensive a little too quickly. I give

this advice to everyone that reads posts online---try to never take

offense at what someone posts---even if you are 100% sure they are

trying to offend you. If you respond with facts and no emotion, 1st--

you take the power away from them to offend you, 2nd--you create an

opportunity for them to listen to you. I think everyone knows which

is the better choice.

We have a moderator here-- is pretty sensible and knows when

someone is just here to stir up the pot--let her ditch them if she

finds that to be the case--if they are still here, make the best out

of the opportunity.

Pammi

[Guest guest]

Jean,

I am still laughing at your portrayal of the The Mistress of

> Misinformation, the Dominatrix of Disinformation, the one,

> the only Sue W.

I have to agree with your appraisal. Most people rely on their

physicians to provide them with good medical advice. We have

entrusted our lives and care and families to them, and if they only

provide one alternative...the so called " gold standard " and if I were

desperate... (which of us are not) I am sure I would grasp that straw.

If that makes me stupid...well, my opinion is that if you have the

choice of two things and pick the wrong one, you might not be too

bright. If you are offered one choice, and don't know how to go about

finding another....you are basing your decision on what information

you have!

Thanks for you post...we are all brothers and sisters in obesity, and

although we can differ in our opinions of what surgery is, and we all

have to live with the consequences, but to berate each other is to

just add one more hurt and insult that none of us need in our lives.

I am just thrilled that I stupidly fell into the DS!

Hugs,

Theresa

DS 11-19-01

Dr. Jossart

-12#s

>

> > These people must be masochists to think like that. What

> do they think they

> > are doing to their bodies with " hoping " for " severe "

> dumping?

>

> I think that those of us who own computers and are connected

> to the internet and are literate enough to do in-depth

> research get a skewed view of the world outside the WWW.

> Many people are illiterate and have no one but their doctors

> to rely upon for advice and information.

>

> Many people don't own a computer.

>

> Many people who do own a computer don't know how to use it

> for anything - word-processing, e-mail, anything, and don't

> want to learn, it's too intimidating, it belongs to their

> kids and there's no way in hell they're going to ask their

> 14 year old daughter to look up weight loss surgery for

> them. (stay with me, I'm trying to be comprehensive and cast

> my net wide enough to catch em all)

>

> Many people who are literate and who do own a computer and

> who do have the skills to navigate the web might be like me.

> I heard about WLS on the news, I immediately got on the

> internet and started searching around for " stomach stapling "

> and was led to the OSSG main list. I joined thinking " great,

> now I can access real information from real people " . I was

> on that list for a couple of weeks and slowly worked my way

> back through the threads in the archived messages but didn't

> notice anything about DS. Finally someone posted a message

> about something and mentioned DS and so I asked about it.

>

> I could have been on that list for who knows how long before

> there was any mention of DS.

>

> I just don't

> > get why anyone would want to do that to themselves, when

> the opportunity to

> > have these surgeries is truly a gift to us, not a

> punishment.

>

> I think that if you are offered one option, as many are by

> their doctors, they have to rationalize the horrible quality

> of life they're faced with if they have this surgery. I was

> doing the same thing, thinking anything is better than

> weighing 300 lbs., I'm willing to endure the mechanisms that

> will be set in motion, dumping, vomiting, picking at my food

> and chewing it forever, etc.

>

> If it wasn't

> > for these amazing doctors who researched a way for us to

> have a better,

> > healthier life if we wanted one and then to have many

> insurance companies

> > even pay for it,

>

> Many people can't afford the expense of having a DS (money

> up-front in the hopes the insurance company will come

> around, travel to a different state or a different country

> if all else fails) and again, many people don't even know

> this surgery exists.

>

> to me, is a gift from God, and should be respected. I hope

> > these people do not end up getting approved,

>

> I do, because I think it's better than nothing, a crappy

> quality of life is better than dying. I'm really looking

> forward to the responses I'm going to get from this reply so

> I'll first of all request that you reread my reply before

> jumping all over me and you will see that I am not DS

> bashing. And I'll just throw in the facts that 1) I have

> chosen the DS and 2) I think RNY'ers deserve my compassion

> and empathy and 3) I personally feel that I owe it to them

> to try and expose them to DS.

>

> because they are doing this for

> > the wrong reasons, all the wrong reasons.

>

> I'd be willing to bet that their motivation is exactly the

> same as ours. It's the method that differs drastically.

>

> Perhaps they are only writing

> > these notes to be antagonistic and are not people who are

> in serious need of

> > this great miracle.

>

> Again, I'd be willing to bet that their motivation is

> exactly the same as ours. It's the method that differs

> drastically.

>

> I'm not criticizing you at all Vicki, I'm just disagreeing.

> Pardon the rant, but " I was there " , " I was them " , so I feel

> compelled to speak in their behalf. Yes, I know this is a DS

> list, but if people keep bringing up the RNY'ers, I'm going

> to respond like this if I disagree with their portrayal of

> the typical RNY'er. I'm tired of the childish battle that

> goes on between DS'ers and RNY'ers. I'm not trying to turn

> anyone away from DS, I'm not saying RNY is better, I'm

> simply speaking the truth as I see it and hoping that maybe

> one person on this list will have gained a little more

> perspective on the topic of RNY and why some people make the

> choices they make. Lemme have it with both barrels for

> daring to buck the party line that RNY'ers are of inferior

> intellect.

>

> Well, I'm off to join a few RNY lists and see how long I'm

> allowed to post before I get moderated. But that's ok, there

> are a few tricks I learned by being on the front lines of a

> list belonging to none other than The Mistress of

> Misinformation, the Dominatrix of Disinformation, the one,

> the only Sue W.

>

> Jean.