Re: Re: knock-kneed with the FAB????

[Guest guest]

At 05:06 PM 3/9/2006, you wrote:

>Kori and Carol,

>

>My daughter is only two months old now but I'm concerned with the

>knees and the braces as well. From some pictures I've seen of

>children who have had their clubfeet corrected, I did notice that

>many of them looked knock-kneed as well. Not sure if it is due to

>the braces or to the clubfeet condition itself. ??

now that's one thing I have never noticed. Never seen a CF child

walk that way either. Maybe it's just the way they sit in the

FAB? Like I said, Darbi's knees go easily together, and back out

just fine. When she walks she looks perfectly normal and I really

have never even considered *knock-knee* in the slightest. I could

honestly say in so far as my experience with these kids, it's not

something that is either a condition or a problem with any FAB

kids. Rather... I think it's just flexible knees.

>Regarding the sitting positions, my younger sister sat in the " W "

>position as a little girl because it was the most comfortable for

>her. Today she isn't knock-kneed at all....as a matter of fact, she

>is a bit bow-legged. Being able to sit in the position really

>demonstrates a flexibility in the hips if anything. But, I don't

>think it will actually " cause " knock knees.

It seems to *cause* something with normal kids lol... I don't

remember what... but apparently doctors have been telling parents

not to let their kids sit like this for eons. I remember the first

time I really noticed Darbi doing this, and I remembered threads

aobut this here from when she was much younger. I started to tell

her not to do it... loud at first and then my voice trailed

off... like she would even listen to me in the first place and as

soon as I started to say it I knew it would make no difference. And

that she sits like that in her FAB... what's the big deal if she

does is when out? It's not like she does it all day long (yet lol)

so whatever... I'm laying off it till I see some kind of issue I

guess or I'm told otherwise. She knows what works for her best...

:~}

Kori

>Thanks,

>

>mommy to -J'nee, bcf, born 01.07.06

>

>

> > > is 4 months old and is about six weeks into her 23/7 brace

>wear

> > >in the shoes. She is a big baby (about 27 inches long)

>and

> > >has an 8 inch bar, which seems comfortable for her. But it

>bothers me

> > >that when she bends her legs up with the brace on, her knees bend

> > >inward toward each other, like she is knock-kneed. Is this

>normal?

> > >Just a part of wearing the brace? It doesn't seem good for her

> > >development (bones, ligaments and such), but maybe I am just a

>worry

> > >wart. LOL So please tell me whether or not your baby does this

>(or

> > >has done this in the past) and if it is normal. Thanks!

> > >

> > >Carol and , 10-27-05, bcf, s 23/7 and currently

>getting

> > >her first two bottom teeth

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi ladies,

Thanks for the feedback about the knock knees, Kori. I will stop worrying so

much. LOL

Regarding the W sitting position, I have some insight into this. My now five

year old had some pretty significant developmental delays when he was younger

(and still gets speech, OT and PT, though PT is phasing out). The OT explained

to me that the W sit is a lazy way to sit and doesn't strengthen the muscles in

the trunk as they need to be. Lots of little kids do it because it is

effortless. Most of them will have no issues with it. Since my son had issues

with delays, we didn't want him doing anything which added to his weaknesses.

He doesn't sit that way anymore, BTW. I think that, for most kids, this

behavior fades naturally over time. But OT's and PT's hate to see kids sit that

way and will correct them. They are used to working kids with some type of

motor issues, though. The W sit doesn't cause bowlegs or knock knees, just a

lack of strength in the trunk.

Carol and

Re: Re: knock-kneed with the FAB????

At 05:06 PM 3/9/2006, you wrote:

>Kori and Carol,

>

>My daughter is only two months old now but I'm concerned with the

>knees and the braces as well. From some pictures I've seen of

>children who have had their clubfeet corrected, I did notice that

>many of them looked knock-kneed as well. Not sure if it is due to

>the braces or to the clubfeet condition itself. ??

now that's one thing I have never noticed. Never seen a CF child

walk that way either. Maybe it's just the way they sit in the

FAB? Like I said, Darbi's knees go easily together, and back out

just fine. When she walks she looks perfectly normal and I really

have never even considered *knock-knee* in the slightest. I could

honestly say in so far as my experience with these kids, it's not

something that is either a condition or a problem with any FAB

kids. Rather... I think it's just flexible knees.

>Regarding the sitting positions, my younger sister sat in the " W "

>position as a little girl because it was the most comfortable for

>her. Today she isn't knock-kneed at all....as a matter of fact, she

>is a bit bow-legged. Being able to sit in the position really

>demonstrates a flexibility in the hips if anything. But, I don't

>think it will actually " cause " knock knees.

It seems to *cause* something with normal kids lol... I don't

remember what... but apparently doctors have been telling parents

not to let their kids sit like this for eons. I remember the first

time I really noticed Darbi doing this, and I remembered threads

aobut this here from when she was much younger. I started to tell

her not to do it... loud at first and then my voice trailed

off... like she would even listen to me in the first place and as

soon as I started to say it I knew it would make no difference. And

that she sits like that in her FAB... what's the big deal if she

does is when out? It's not like she does it all day long (yet lol)

so whatever... I'm laying off it till I see some kind of issue I

guess or I'm told otherwise. She knows what works for her best...

:~}

Kori

>Thanks,

>

>mommy to -J'nee, bcf, born 01.07.06

>

>

> > > is 4 months old and is about six weeks into her 23/7 brace

>wear

> > >in the shoes. She is a big baby (about 27 inches long)

>and

> > >has an 8 inch bar, which seems comfortable for her. But it

>bothers me

> > >that when she bends her legs up with the brace on, her knees bend

> > >inward toward each other, like she is knock-kneed. Is this

>normal?

> > >Just a part of wearing the brace? It doesn't seem good for her

> > >development (bones, ligaments and such), but maybe I am just a

>worry

> > >wart. LOL So please tell me whether or not your baby does this

>(or

> > >has done this in the past) and if it is normal. Thanks!

> > >

> > >Carol and , 10-27-05, bcf, s 23/7 and currently

>getting

> > >her first two bottom teeth

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

>Regarding the W sitting position, I have some insight into this. My

>now five year old had some pretty significant developmental delays

>when he was younger (and still gets speech, OT and PT, though PT is

>phasing out). The OT explained to me that the W sit is a lazy way

>to sit and doesn't strengthen the muscles in the trunk as they need

>to be. Lots of little kids do it because it is effortless. Most of

>them will have no issues with it. Since my son had issues with

>delays, we didn't want him doing anything which added to his

>weaknesses. He doesn't sit that way anymore, BTW. I think that,

>for most kids, this behavior fades naturally over time. But OT's

>and PT's hate to see kids sit that way and will correct them. They

>are used to working kids with some type of motor issues,

>though. The W sit doesn't cause bowlegs or knock knees, just a lack

>of strength in the trunk.

huh... well now.... isn't THAT interesting? Good to know what the

issue is because I'm pretty darn sure these kids have plenty of

strength in their trunks >:-}... Have to with all that bar lifting

and sitting up (I often steady her feet to the floor so she can sit

upright - situps lol!) and general athletic maneuvers these kids do

in the FAB... So I too will stop worrying about W sitting! Thank you!

Kori

>Carol and

> Re: Re: knock-kneed with the FAB????

>

>

> At 05:06 PM 3/9/2006, you wrote:

> >Kori and Carol,

> >

> >My daughter is only two months old now but I'm concerned with the

> >knees and the braces as well. From some pictures I've seen of

> >children who have had their clubfeet corrected, I did notice that

> >many of them looked knock-kneed as well. Not sure if it is due to

> >the braces or to the clubfeet condition itself. ??

>

> now that's one thing I have never noticed. Never seen a CF child

> walk that way either. Maybe it's just the way they sit in the

> FAB? Like I said, Darbi's knees go easily together, and back out

> just fine. When she walks she looks perfectly normal and I really

> have never even considered *knock-knee* in the slightest. I could

> honestly say in so far as my experience with these kids, it's not

> something that is either a condition or a problem with any FAB

> kids. Rather... I think it's just flexible knees.

>

>

> >Regarding the sitting positions, my younger sister sat in the " W "

> >position as a little girl because it was the most comfortable for

> >her. Today she isn't knock-kneed at all....as a matter of fact, she

> >is a bit bow-legged. Being able to sit in the position really

> >demonstrates a flexibility in the hips if anything. But, I don't

> >think it will actually " cause " knock knees.

>

> It seems to *cause* something with normal kids lol... I don't

> remember what... but apparently doctors have been telling parents

> not to let their kids sit like this for eons. I remember the first

> time I really noticed Darbi doing this, and I remembered threads

> aobut this here from when she was much younger. I started to tell

> her not to do it... loud at first and then my voice trailed

> off... like she would even listen to me in the first place and as

> soon as I started to say it I knew it would make no difference. And

> that she sits like that in her FAB... what's the big deal if she

> does is when out? It's not like she does it all day long (yet lol)

> so whatever... I'm laying off it till I see some kind of issue I

> guess or I'm told otherwise. She knows what works for her best...

>

> :~}

>

> Kori

>

>

>

>

> >Thanks,

> >

> >mommy to -J'nee, bcf, born 01.07.06

> >

> >

> > > > is 4 months old and is about six weeks into her 23/7 brace

> >wear

> > > >in the shoes. She is a big baby (about 27 inches long)

> >and

> > > >has an 8 inch bar, which seems comfortable for her. But it

> >bothers me

> > > >that when she bends her legs up with the brace on, her knees bend

> > > >inward toward each other, like she is knock-kneed. Is this

> >normal?

> > > >Just a part of wearing the brace? It doesn't seem good for her

> > > >development (bones, ligaments and such), but maybe I am just a

> >worry

> > > >wart. LOL So please tell me whether or not your baby does this

> >(or

> > > >has done this in the past) and if it is normal. Thanks!

> > > >

> > > >Carol and , 10-27-05, bcf, s 23/7 and currently

> >getting

> > > >her first two bottom teeth

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

I have been following this post regarding the W sitting thing...I have seen

it mentioned here before, but never knew why...I had dislocated hips when I

was born, and my mom used to FLIP out when I sat like that. I remember it,

and we even have some old 16mm film of her saying, " , don't sit like

that! " Doctors told her (in '72) that this would pull my hips out again.

Okay, not true. I still catch myslef doing it sometimes...

Now, sits like that, and I have actually giggled at it, thinking that

she was just like her mom. I have always thought that the W sitting problem

was just a myth, but now I'm not so sure...Carol, do you mean that the kids

show lack of strenth in the torso, or legs? That's just so interesting. I am

trying to figure out the symantics of it (I am sitting like that as I type,

trying to see where it feels different or something.)I know that I won't

freak out on her like my mom did, but I really don't want her sitting like

that if it could be a problem. Yikes!

>

>Reply-To: nosurgery4clubfoot

>To: nosurgery4clubfoot

>Subject: Re: Re: knock-kneed with the FAB????

>Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 19:38:47 -0800

>

>

>

> >Regarding the W sitting position, I have some insight into this. My

> >now five year old had some pretty significant developmental delays

> >when he was younger (and still gets speech, OT and PT, though PT is

> >phasing out). The OT explained to me that the W sit is a lazy way

> >to sit and doesn't strengthen the muscles in the trunk as they need

> >to be. Lots of little kids do it because it is effortless. Most of

> >them will have no issues with it. Since my son had issues with

> >delays, we didn't want him doing anything which added to his

> >weaknesses. He doesn't sit that way anymore, BTW. I think that,

> >for most kids, this behavior fades naturally over time. But OT's

> >and PT's hate to see kids sit that way and will correct them. They

> >are used to working kids with some type of motor issues,

> >though. The W sit doesn't cause bowlegs or knock knees, just a lack

> >of strength in the trunk.

>

>huh... well now.... isn't THAT interesting? Good to know what the

>issue is because I'm pretty darn sure these kids have plenty of

>strength in their trunks >:-}... Have to with all that bar lifting

>and sitting up (I often steady her feet to the floor so she can sit

>upright - situps lol!) and general athletic maneuvers these kids do

>in the FAB... So I too will stop worrying about W sitting! Thank you!

>

>Kori

>

>

>

>

> >Carol and

> > Re: Re: knock-kneed with the FAB????

> >

> >

> > At 05:06 PM 3/9/2006, you wrote:

> > >Kori and Carol,

> > >

> > >My daughter is only two months old now but I'm concerned with the

> > >knees and the braces as well. From some pictures I've seen of

> > >children who have had their clubfeet corrected, I did notice that

> > >many of them looked knock-kneed as well. Not sure if it is due to

> > >the braces or to the clubfeet condition itself. ??

> >

> > now that's one thing I have never noticed. Never seen a CF child

> > walk that way either. Maybe it's just the way they sit in the

> > FAB? Like I said, Darbi's knees go easily together, and back out

> > just fine. When she walks she looks perfectly normal and I really

> > have never even considered *knock-knee* in the slightest. I could

> > honestly say in so far as my experience with these kids, it's not

> > something that is either a condition or a problem with any FAB

> > kids. Rather... I think it's just flexible knees.

> >

> >

> > >Regarding the sitting positions, my younger sister sat in the " W "

> > >position as a little girl because it was the most comfortable for

> > >her. Today she isn't knock-kneed at all....as a matter of fact, she

> > >is a bit bow-legged. Being able to sit in the position really

> > >demonstrates a flexibility in the hips if anything. But, I don't

> > >think it will actually " cause " knock knees.

> >

> > It seems to *cause* something with normal kids lol... I don't

> > remember what... but apparently doctors have been telling parents

> > not to let their kids sit like this for eons. I remember the first

> > time I really noticed Darbi doing this, and I remembered threads

> > aobut this here from when she was much younger. I started to tell

> > her not to do it... loud at first and then my voice trailed

> > off... like she would even listen to me in the first place and as

> > soon as I started to say it I knew it would make no difference. And

> > that she sits like that in her FAB... what's the big deal if she

> > does is when out? It's not like she does it all day long (yet lol)

> > so whatever... I'm laying off it till I see some kind of issue I

> > guess or I'm told otherwise. She knows what works for her best...

> >

> > :~}

> >

> > Kori

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >Thanks,

> > >

> > >mommy to -J'nee, bcf, born 01.07.06

> > >

> > >

> > > > > is 4 months old and is about six weeks into her 23/7 brace

> > >wear

> > > > >in the shoes. She is a big baby (about 27 inches long)

> > >and

> > > > >has an 8 inch bar, which seems comfortable for her. But it

> > >bothers me

> > > > >that when she bends her legs up with the brace on, her knees bend

> > > > >inward toward each other, like she is knock-kneed. Is this

> > >normal?

> > > > >Just a part of wearing the brace? It doesn't seem good for her

> > > > >development (bones, ligaments and such), but maybe I am just a

> > >worry

> > > > >wart. LOL So please tell me whether or not your baby does this

> > >(or

> > > > >has done this in the past) and if it is normal. Thanks!

> > > > >

> > > > >Carol and , 10-27-05, bcf, s 23/7 and currently

> > >getting

> > > > >her first two bottom teeth

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

,

From what I understand, the W sitting position provides a wide base of support

for the body and therefore doesn't promote torso and upper body strength. It

also does not encourage balance from the " inner core " but relies on the wide

base of the feet/legs for balance. That is my best understanding of it. Again,

I see lots of little kids sitting this way and I don't think it causes problems

in the general population. For kids with some sort of delays, it can be an

issue because it compounds the problems they already have...as well as being a

symptom of it. (But I don't think it is a symptom of problems in an otherwise

normally developing child.)

I never did a very good job of correcting my son on it consistently and, even

though he had both fine and gross motor delays, he eventually gave it up and

doesn't do it anymore. I don't even pay attention to whether or not my three

year old does it. (His milestones were always met early so I was never

concerned about his development.) Depending on 's milestones and whether

or not they are on time or delayed, I will pay attention or not to the W sit. I

have four kids so I am way too busy and distracted to worry about things which

seem pretty small, which is the category I put the W sit in. LOL

I am not an OT so that is the best advice/information I have. My SIL is an OT

and has spent her career working with school age kids so I can ask her and post

her answer if you would like. I'm sure she has a better and more complete

answer than I have.

Carol

Re: Re: knock-kneed with the FAB????

> >

> >

> > At 05:06 PM 3/9/2006, you wrote:

> > >Kori and Carol,

> > >

> > >My daughter is only two months old now but I'm concerned with the

> > >knees and the braces as well. From some pictures I've seen of

> > >children who have had their clubfeet corrected, I did notice that

> > >many of them looked knock-kneed as well. Not sure if it is due to

> > >the braces or to the clubfeet condition itself. ??

> >

> > now that's one thing I have never noticed. Never seen a CF child

> > walk that way either. Maybe it's just the way they sit in the

> > FAB? Like I said, Darbi's knees go easily together, and back out

> > just fine. When she walks she looks perfectly normal and I really

> > have never even considered *knock-knee* in the slightest. I could

> > honestly say in so far as my experience with these kids, it's not

> > something that is either a condition or a problem with any FAB

> > kids. Rather... I think it's just flexible knees.

> >

> >

> > >Regarding the sitting positions, my younger sister sat in the " W "

> > >position as a little girl because it was the most comfortable for

> > >her. Today she isn't knock-kneed at all....as a matter of fact, she

> > >is a bit bow-legged. Being able to sit in the position really

> > >demonstrates a flexibility in the hips if anything. But, I don't

> > >think it will actually " cause " knock knees.

> >

> > It seems to *cause* something with normal kids lol... I don't

> > remember what... but apparently doctors have been telling parents

> > not to let their kids sit like this for eons. I remember the first

> > time I really noticed Darbi doing this, and I remembered threads

> > aobut this here from when she was much younger. I started to tell

> > her not to do it... loud at first and then my voice trailed

> > off... like she would even listen to me in the first place and as

> > soon as I started to say it I knew it would make no difference. And

> > that she sits like that in her FAB... what's the big deal if she

> > does is when out? It's not like she does it all day long (yet lol)

> > so whatever... I'm laying off it till I see some kind of issue I

> > guess or I'm told otherwise. She knows what works for her best...

> >

> > :~}

> >

> > Kori

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >Thanks,

> > >

> > >mommy to -J'nee, bcf, born 01.07.06

> > >

> > >

> > > > > is 4 months old and is about six weeks into her 23/7 brace

> > >wear

> > > > >in the shoes. She is a big baby (about 27 inches long)

> > >and

> > > > >has an 8 inch bar, which seems comfortable for her. But it

> > >bothers me

> > > > >that when she bends her legs up with the brace on, her knees bend

> > > > >inward toward each other, like she is knock-kneed. Is this

> > >normal?

> > > > >Just a part of wearing the brace? It doesn't seem good for her

> > > > >development (bones, ligaments and such), but maybe I am just a

> > >worry

> > > > >wart. LOL So please tell me whether or not your baby does this

> > >(or

> > > > >has done this in the past) and if it is normal. Thanks!

> > > > >

> > > > >Carol and , 10-27-05, bcf, s 23/7 and currently

> > >getting

> > > > >her first two bottom teeth

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >