Re: Extreme bloating. Please help.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Just a thought. What kind of water are you using? Highly Mineralized and high

Dry Residual count water makes me seriously bloated and in pain. I use the kind

recommended by pediatritians.

Also, if you happen to be boiling mineral water to cook with it can also cause

bloating - I have a water filter on the tap and still boil this water for a few

minutes.

One thing I noticed from personal experience, no matter how strange it could

sound, is the improper intake of air. Somehow if I'm talking too much & eating

at the same time - I guess I'm breathing wrong or what ever. My end result: i

get bloated and I have to go to bed with a heating pad and a hot Linden tea

(this helps me / not sure if it's leagal, I'm not recommending without

checking).

Also, passive smoking. Don't know why but I can't be in a room with heavy

smokers because I get seriously boated and in pain!

Just my own experience I thought I'd share. Maybe someone else has had some

similar experiences?

F. UC-11yr / SCD-10yrs

Sevilla, Spain

kellytcy escribió:

Hi,

My child's bloating got worse on SCD and has never healed even though

she has been on SCD for a year now.

A month ago, I re-did intro for her and it still didn't help.

Some suggested lesser fruits and I have reduced it by about half but

the bloat still didn't go away.

The food she is currently on are:

1. zucchni (lots)

2. meat (duck, pheasant, cornish game hen, rabbit, or buffalo)

3. applesauce every other day. about 4 apples in 1 day.

4. honeydew every other day. about 1 small honeydew in a day.

5. some banana every 5 days or so

6. some avocado once a month (eating a whole avocado in one day cause

diarrhea)

7. a little carrot, once every two week (appears in the poop)

8. butternut squash, every 4 days

9. acorn squash, every 4 days

10. applejuice

11. water left in the pot from boiling the honeydew

Everything is skinned, seeded and well cooked.

No yogurt because her IgG test showed a red line all the way to the

end of the page. I have just gotten my yogurt maker but have yet to

order the Progurt starter.

Her bloating in the last week worsen. Very very bad. Her tummy feels

hard by the end of the day. She wakes up with a flat tummy every

morning.

Any idea what this is?

Yeast? We did take out Nystatin a few weeks ago since she didn't see

any improvement with it. She does have a slightly white tongue.

Please please help. Desperate. It is very painfaul to see her big

hard tummy. I can't even carry her because her tummy gets in the way!

Thank you.

---------------------------------

LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo.

Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto.

http://es.voice.yahoo.com

[Guest guest]

,

It looks like you are doing a rotation diet somewhat? Are you following any

other dietary restrictions outside of SCD?

A couple of things jump out at me. Are you cooking the honeydew melon? I know

you said " everything " is well cooked, but I wanted to make sure.

If you followed SCD correctly from the beginning, it does seem that you would

not need to still be cooking everything after a year, but if things aren't going

well, we often need to take a step back.

You list " apple juice " . I want to be sure you are making this yourself.... at

home, with a juicer? There is no legal apple juice you can buy. It must be

fresh-pressed apple CIDER... the type you buy in the refridgerated section or a

farmer's market.... with NOTHING added, and only cooked for purposes of

pasteurization.

How long was she on the Nystatin? Many parents report that yeast rebounds BIG

TIME after stopping Rx anti-fungals. I think you will probably have to step in

with some natural anti-fungals..... or anti-yeast enzymes (Candidase is one

brand name that is legal) to get a handle on yeast. The prescription meds really

(in my opinion) seem to create super-resistant yeast. Other natural remedies

might include GSE, OLE, Oil of Oregano..... and you'd need to rotate these,

plus start with a small amount and increase slowly.

Many kids just don't do well with carrots, for some reason. If they are showing

up in her poo, then she is not properly digesting them..... so remember,

anything that can't be digested *can* be feeding bad guys.

I would certainly prefer to see more butternut squash.... and less zucchini.

Zucchini is an okay food.... but not very nutrient dense. Is there a reason why

she only gets butternut squash every 4 days?

You say she tested very high (IgG) for " yogurt " ? Was this COW yogurt? We

highly recommend ASD kids begin with SCD GOAT yogurt. The marker would be

irrelevant, pretty much, if it was testing for cow casein.

Let me know the answers on the questions I asked above and we will keep trying

to help you.

Patti, list moderator

Extreme bloating. Please help.

Hi,

My child's bloating got worse on SCD and has never healed even though

she has been on SCD for a year now.

A month ago, I re-did intro for her and it still didn't help.

Some suggested lesser fruits and I have reduced it by about half but

the bloat still didn't go away.

The food she is currently on are:

1. zucchni (lots)

2. meat (duck, pheasant, cornish game hen, rabbit, or buffalo)

3. applesauce every other day. about 4 apples in 1 day.

4. honeydew every other day. about 1 small honeydew in a day.

5. some banana every 5 days or so

6. some avocado once a month (eating a whole avocado in one day cause

diarrhea)

7. a little carrot, once every two week (appears in the poop)

8. butternut squash, every 4 days

9. acorn squash, every 4 days

10. applejuice

11. water left in the pot from boiling the honeydew

Everything is skinned, seeded and well cooked.

No yogurt because her IgG test showed a red line all the way to the

end of the page. I have just gotten my yogurt maker but have yet to

order the Progurt starter.

Her bloating in the last week worsen. Very very bad. Her tummy feels

hard by the end of the day. She wakes up with a flat tummy every

morning.

Any idea what this is?

Yeast? We did take out Nystatin a few weeks ago since she didn't see

any improvement with it. She does have a slightly white tongue.

Please please help. Desperate. It is very painfaul to see her big

hard tummy. I can't even carry her because her tummy gets in the way!

Thank you.

[Guest guest]

Patti,

> It looks like you are doing a rotation diet somewhat? Are you

following any other dietary restrictions outside of SCD?

A lot of people on SCD highly recommended varieties. We are TRYING to

increase variety and do some kind of rotation.

My daughter reacts to high oxalate food, so we have to keep

relatively low oxalate and not too much phenol food.

> A couple of things jump out at me. Are you cooking the honeydew

melon? I know you said " everything " is well cooked, but I wanted to

make sure.

Yes. Cooked the honeydew melon as well. Doesn't taste good but she'll

eat it.

> If you followed SCD correctly from the beginning, it does seem that

you would not need to still be cooking everything after a year, but

if things aren't going well, we often need to take a step back.

I have been very deligent about following SCD and my daughter doesn't

snitch food at all. But the food doesn't go away and thus we never

moved forward.

Should we move forward despite the bloating?

> I want to be sure you are making this yourself.... at home, with a

juicer?

Yes, apple juice is home-made with juicer.

> How long was she on the Nystatin?

About a couple of months.

>Many parents report that yeast rebounds BIG TIME after stopping Rx

>anti-fungals. I think you will probably have to step in with some

>natural anti-fungals..... or anti-yeast enzymes (Candidase is one

>brand name that is legal) to get a handle on yeast. The prescription

>meds really (in my opinion) seem to create super-resistant yeast.

>Other natural remedies might include GSE, OLE, Oil of Oregano.....

>and you'd need to rotate these, plus start with a small amount and

>increase slowly.

Doesn't SCD starve out the bad bugs? Why do we have so much trouble

with yeast?

> I would certainly prefer to see more butternut squash.... and less

zucchini. Zucchini is an okay food.... but not very nutrient dense.

Is there a reason why she only gets butternut squash every 4 days?

Butternut squash and acorn squash are harder to digest than zucchini,

aren't they? Because of the bloating, we try to keep the food on easy

to digest ones.

> You say she tested very high (IgG) for " yogurt " ? Was this COW

yogurt?

Yes, cow's milk.

I am trying to accumulate enough courage to try goat yogurt.

Would really really appreciate any help.

Thank you.

>

> Extreme bloating. Please help.

>

>

> Hi,

>

> My child's bloating got worse on SCD and has never healed even

though

> she has been on SCD for a year now.

>

> A month ago, I re-did intro for her and it still didn't help.

>

> Some suggested lesser fruits and I have reduced it by about half

but

> the bloat still didn't go away.

>

> The food she is currently on are:

> 1. zucchni (lots)

> 2. meat (duck, pheasant, cornish game hen, rabbit, or buffalo)

> 3. applesauce every other day. about 4 apples in 1 day.

> 4. honeydew every other day. about 1 small honeydew in a day.

> 5. some banana every 5 days or so

> 6. some avocado once a month (eating a whole avocado in one day

cause

> diarrhea)

> 7. a little carrot, once every two week (appears in the poop)

> 8. butternut squash, every 4 days

> 9. acorn squash, every 4 days

> 10. applejuice

> 11. water left in the pot from boiling the honeydew

>

> Everything is skinned, seeded and well cooked.

>

> No yogurt because her IgG test showed a red line all the way to

the

> end of the page. I have just gotten my yogurt maker but have yet

to

> order the Progurt starter.

>

> Her bloating in the last week worsen. Very very bad. Her tummy

feels

> hard by the end of the day. She wakes up with a flat tummy every

> morning.

>

> Any idea what this is?

> Yeast? We did take out Nystatin a few weeks ago since she didn't

see

> any improvement with it. She does have a slightly white tongue.

>

> Please please help. Desperate. It is very painfaul to see her big

> hard tummy. I can't even carry her because her tummy gets in the

way!

>

> Thank you.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You wrote:

<<A lot of people on SCD highly recommended varieties. We are TRYING to

increase variety and do some kind of rotation.

My daughter reacts to high oxalate food, so we have to keep

relatively low oxalate and not too much phenol food. >>

If you feel your daughter has issues with oxalates, I would highly, highly

recommend that you read up on the Vitamin K protocol. The whole calcium oxalate

crystal issue is exactly what addresses in her research paper. From

what she has discovered, limiting dietary oxalates can just trigger the body to

manufacture it's OWN oxalate in the liver, because the real underlying root of

the problem is in calcium management, and a lack of adequate fat soluable

vitamins (primarily A, D and K). The body is trying to bind excess calcium with

oxalate as a protective mechanism. It's complicated, and I don't mean to confuse

you, but I just STRONGLY believe that following a low-oxalate diet is not the

way to go. On a low oxalate diet, you end up limiting many foods that are

extremely nutritious for your child and not really getting rid of the crystals.

If you haven't already seen it, you can read the research paper here:

http://gutresearch.com/v1.html

The Vitamin K group is here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VitaminK/

As far as the phenol sensitivity, if her gut were truly healing, we would expect

that response to diminish over time. But, many parents do feel the need to limit

foods that are high in phenols in the beginning. Some have found the No Fenol

enzymes to be helpful.

<<I have been very deligent about following SCD and my daughter doesn't

snitch food at all. But the food doesn't go away and thus we never

moved forward.

Should we move forward despite the bloating?>>

I'm not sure what you mean by " the food doesn't go away " ? Did you mean to type

" the BLOATING doesn't go away " ?

I do think we need to figure out what might be causing the bloating, and not

just move on to more advanced foods despite that.

You said she's been on Nystatin for a couple of months. Do you feel like the

bloating problem was already there prior to Nystatin? I think it's very likely

that you are now seeing a yeast rebound that is a direct result of the Nystatin.

I mentioned quite a few natural anti-fungals in my previous e-mail. Have you

tried any of those, or just the Nystatin?

I think I forgot to mention the carrot juice and garlic remedy. Since you have a

juicer, this would be easy to try. One of our veteran SCD moms swears this is

the best yeast treatment she's ever tried. It's basically 4 oz of fresh carrot

juice (probably takes about 2 large carrots) with one clove of fresh garlic

pressed into it. I have made this by tossing the clove of garlic down the chute

with the carrots. My daughter doesn't exactly willingly drink it (she only

likes water or SCD lemonade), so I have to give it to her like medicine, with a

medicine syringe.... a teaspoon or two at a time, followed by bites of something

else she prefers. The garlic can be very strong tasting... but some kids

actually do like it. The suggested dose is 4 oz of this, twice a day for a

couple of weeks.

<<Doesn't SCD starve out the bad bugs? Why do we have so much trouble

with yeast?>>

SCD primarily starves out bad bacteria.... and yeast are normally sort of out

of control along WITH bacterial overgrowth. However, initially, as bacterial

colonies die off, yeast can be very opportunistic and take over the empty space

left by the bacteria. That's why supplemental acidophilus is SO critically

important.... and/or SCD goat yogurt.... to keep yeast from taking over. Yeast

really HATES SCD yogurt.... it seems to do much more than just being a delivery

medium for probiotics. I think it's something about the pH that also helps

create a gut environment that is inhospitable for yeast and bad bacteria. Not

to mention being packed with essential nutrients.

Theoretically, over time, SCD itself tends to bring the gut back into

balance.... and keep yeast in check, but it won't work this way if you're

skipping the acidophilus, and it will be more difficult in the beginning to get

a handle on yeast if you can't use yogurt.

<<Butternut squash and acorn squash are harder to digest than zucchini,

aren't they? Because of the bloating, we try to keep the food on easy

to digest ones. >>

You know.... I do think that acorn squash is a little more fibrous and harder

to digest, but I don't personally agree with where butternut squash was placed

on that " Stages " chart on the website. Elaine didn't create the chart, and

didn't particularly like it.... and I always try to stress to parents that it's

only meant to be a very general guideline, not really part of the " official

rules " of SCD. It's been my own experience that butternut squash is very well

tolerated by most kids.... and that many kids actually tolerate it better than

carrots, for example. That's just what I personally have seen, so I sort of

wish it had been placed in Stage 1, but I wan't in on the creation of that

chart.

<<You say she tested very high (IgG) for " yogurt " ? Was this COW

yogurt?

Yes, cow's milk.

I am trying to accumulate enough courage to try goat yogurt. >>

Oh, good! I think that would be an excellent idea. Goat yogurt is a very

healing food! Remember that you will start with an extremely small amount. In

the beginning, SCD yogurt can trigger additional die-off, and you need to keep

that in mind and not confuse it with a " dairy reaction " .

One way to sort of test it out is to make the SCD yogurt.... but then use a

small amount of it in a baked good.... so the yogurt will get cooked. That way,

you will kill off the probiotic, leaving behind just the dairy part of the

yogurt. The fermentation process will have taken out virtually all of the

lactose.... and changed/denatured the casein molecules, making them easier to

digest. If your daughter tolerates the baked good with the dairy in it, you will

then be able to introduce fresh yogurt and if you see any sort of symptoms, it

will be clear that it's die-off.... not a dairy reaction.... and will be

temporary.

You'll increase the yogurt amount very slowly.... starting with just an eighth

of a teaspoon and increasing very gradually, as tolerated.

Hope this helps...

Patti

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thank you for informing us that you are combining SCD with foods that

are low in oxalates. Extreme bloating is one of the symptoms of doing

a diet that is low in oxalates. I will send you by private email a

post from another list that explains this.

Parents who combine a diet that is low in oxalates with SCD have a

very hard time getting good results with SCD. I urge every parent who

is doing the combination low oxalate/SCD diet to get private SCD

counseling.

I believe that the SCD yogurt is the best treatment for reducing

oxalates. Scientific research backs this:

http://www.pecanbread.com/new/ox1.html

There is no risk in trying the SCD goat yogurt since even the worst

responders return to baseline after a week or so. Casein stays in the

body for only a short time. Start out with just a few drops. I am so

glad that you are considering the goat yogurt!!

Please let me know by private email if you are able to get counseling.

I feel for you and want to do my best to help your daughter.

Mimi

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to add I had to greatly reduce my son's juice load because

he was drinking constantly and getting really bloated...even with me

watering it down almost all the way to the top. I have found a happy

medium with only allowing between 4-8 sippy cups a day with mostly H2O

and some WELCHES grape juice at the top. ALSO tomorrow I will begin

some juicing in my new juicer (one green apple, couple pears and a bit

of spinach is a recipe I have heard tastes yummy!) I will juice for

him and myself in the AM!

My son was really pebbly stool with only four sippy cups a day. He was

very runny stool with over eight sippy cups a day. With about 6-8 cups

a day he is J...U....S....T Right (like Goldilocks and the three

bears Plus he drinks the water out of the plastic bottle if he is

really thirsty. Is the drinking too much a possibility?

Kristie