Re: oxalates?

[Guest guest]

Please go read Tamaro's research paper on Vitamin K and calcium

management, if your child seems to have " oxalate issues " . Restricting dietary

oxalates *may* just trigger the liver to produce it's own oxalate to bind with

free calcium. Bring some of her information from her Vitamin K list (in the

" files " section), as well as the research paper to your DAN. The DAN physician

works with... Dr. Green in Oregon... is someone your DAN could

consult with about this angle on oxalates.

Ironically enough, many of the foods that are high in oxalates are also high in

much needed vitamin K, and other essential nutrients.

Here's the link to her paper:

http://gutresearch.com/v1.html

And here's the link to the Vitamin K list:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VitaminK/

Patti

Re: oxalates?

My daughter didn't have much for sign of oxylates issues either. I

only had one coincidence that made me question it. When we tried tri-

salts (good treatment for oxylates) she suddenly got sandy stools. I

stopped it and later found this could have happened b/c of the

oxylates leaving her body. So I had the organic test done with

Great Plains. We just got the results and she DOES indeed have

oxylates issues. It was high. Her DAN Dr. didn't even think it was

an issue. (I just wanted to check it to be 100% sure...$200

later...) So we are going to see our DAN in a couple of weeks to

discuss. I'm hoping we can do something with supplements to help

this (not in the way of taking away foods as we are already so

limited on SCD Diet)

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[Guest guest]

I'm trying to figure out why you're worried about adding bone broth to

popsicles. You're thinking that freezing it will destroy enzymes in it? I

don't think so.... I mean, it wouldn't destroy anything that the heat of

cooking didn't already destroy. Bone broth contains collagen/protein, all kinds

of minerals, etc, etc, etc.... which will still be there it you freeze it.

Patti

oxalates?

He was eating bone broth, but now he will not touch it. The suggestion was

made to add bone broth to the popscicles, but would that not destroy all the

enzymes?

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[Guest guest]

,

Maybe the problems your son is having is more with phenols in the foods. I know

purple grape juice is one of those things that is high. Why don't you try the

Welch's white grape juice instead and see if that goes better?

Bananas and cooked apples are both considered to be " binding " .... in other

words, they will tend to firm up the stool, so they're good choices for someone

who has loose stools. I would pull them for a few days and see if that helps.

I would also suggest trying to get some of the SCD Electrolyte Drink into him.

On the website: www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info in the " Knowledge Base " under

" E " .

Do you include healthy fats in his diet? I don't see any on your list except

the CLO. Have you tried coconut oil... or coconut milk (homemade)?

I think I would increase the magnesium if my child were constipated. You didn't

list how much mag citrate he's getting now.... so??

You're cooking all the fruits and veggies, right? (Except bananas?)

Patti

oxalates?

What would lead you to believe that a child had an oxalate problem? I

*think* that my son who has been SCD for about a month and a half does

not do as well with grape juice and spinach in his diet as he does

when it's not there. I am going to totally remove those tomorrow and

see how it goes. I would like to find out what other symptoms to look

for. He's never had the sandy stool issue I have read so much about

or any indication of kidney stones or anything like that. My son is 2

by the way. I don't know if I'm looking at a food intolerance issue

or if it's an oxalate issue, or neither and it's something else

entirely. He's doing OK and the constipation has been gone for a week

or so, but he is having occasional green stools and a couple of very

small, though not dry or hard, yet difficult-to-pass stools every

day. He has also had one very large formed stool every day and that

is great, but there is still something not quite right.

He was eating bone broth, but now he will not touch it. The

suggestion was made to add bone broth to the popscicles, but would

that not destroy all the enzymes?

We are still fairly new at this and everything is still peeled and

cooked. He didn't seem to do too well with apples or carrots. I felt

it was making the constipation even worse His diet, if that is

helpful is:

Bananas

Pears

Peaches

Squash (acorn, butternut, and banana)

Green Beans

Spinach

Cucumber

Zucchini

Boiled Chicken

Egg fried in a little coconut oil

Gelatin made with Knudsen's just blueberry or just cherry

Welch's grape juice - just enough to sweeten his veggie popscicles

Prune juice - also just a little to sweeten the popscicles

Almond Butter

A little honey

Supplements -

Kirkman's Acidophilus

Mag Citrate

Zinc Picolinate

Cod Liver Oil from Green Pastures

Butter Oil from Green Pastures

Thank you!

[Guest guest]

Thanks for all the ideas. I had not thought of phenols. And yes I

had thought freezing the bone broth would ruin it. I'm so glad it

won't because I think that he really improved when he was eating it.

I know that blueberries can turn stool a blackish color, could spinach

turn it a greenish color, but still be OK? The greenish stool is my

main concern right now and I think spinach is to blame, the question I

have now is, is he getting the green from oxalates, phenols,

intolerance, or just a side effect of spinach consumption? It is not a

runny stool, it is formed and in my limited stool knowledge, seems a

very normal consistency. It's just that it is greenish. I am pulling

the spinach, but I just wish I knew what the answer was.

In the way of fats, he is getting coconut oil (blended in with the

popscicles and a bit to fry eggs in) and he is also eating almond

butter and avocados.

Thank you so much!!!!

2yo SCD 1.5 months

[Guest guest]

,

You wrote:

<<I know that blueberries can turn stool a blackish color, could spinach

turn it a greenish color, but still be OK? The greenish stool is my

main concern right now and I think spinach is to blame, the question I

have now is, is he getting the green from oxalates, phenols,

intolerance, or just a side effect of spinach consumption?>>

At this point, I think it's very likely that it's just the green color of the

spinich. Since he is not very far along on SCD, his gut is undoubtedly not fully

healed or fully functional... in terms of properly breaking foods down and

absorbing all the nutrients. We hear all the time of kids who are fairly new to

the diet having orange-ish stools from squash and carrots, and while that

*might* indicate a food is not being fully digested, since you are seeing nicely

formed stools, I think that is a very good sign and you shouldn't worry too much

about a greenish color. We also hear of green BMs just from die-off in the

beginning, and Elaine was usually delighted to hear reports of all kinds of

color changes in new SCD kids.

With phenol intolerance, you are more likely to see a behavioral response, not

color changes in poo. And as for oxalate content of foods, as I said earlier,

is a much more complicated issue.... you really need to look into the whole

calcium management thing and possible problems with the fat soluable vitamins,

in my opinion. But, again, that is not something that is going to cause stools

to turn green.... not that I know of, anyway.

When you wrote:

<<but he is having occasional green stools and a couple of very

small, though not dry or hard, yet difficult-to-pass stools every

day. He has also had one very large formed stool every day and that

is great, but there is still something not quite right.>>

It sort of sounds like he may be moving poop out that has been sitting in there

for a while.... ?? I would sneak that bone broth in any way you possibly can.

Also see if you can get him to accept a small amount of the Electrolyte Drink.

Try not to worry so much. I think you're on the right track.

Patti

Re: oxalates?

Thanks for all the ideas. I had not thought of phenols. And yes I

had thought freezing the bone broth would ruin it. I'm so glad it

won't because I think that he really improved when he was eating it.

It is not a

runny stool, it is formed and in my limited stool knowledge, seems a

very normal consistency. It's just that it is greenish. I am pulling

the spinach, but I just wish I knew what the answer was.

In the way of fats, he is getting coconut oil (blended in with the

popscicles and a bit to fry eggs in) and he is also eating almond

butter and avocados.

Thank you so much!!!!

2yo SCD 1.5 months

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for all the information! I have not seen any

behavorial issues with him at all, if anything, he is better than he

has been in several months so I think you are right that I am worrying

too much. I need to give it more time and just keep working at it.

Thanks again!

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

The Low Oxalate Diet forbids foods that contain high oxalates because

they might escape through the leaky gut. Owens, the leader of

the Low Oxalate Diet for Autism, has stated numerous times that

oxalates in foods would not be a problem if there was no leaky gut.

The latest science research articles demonstrate that microorganisms

are responsible for the leaky gut. This webpage explains how.

http://pecanbread.com/new/leakygut1.html

In order to heal the leaky gut, you should eliminate the pathogenic

microorganisms.

Doing SCD correctly is the best protection from oxalates in foods.

Mimi

> Thanks so much for all the information! I have not seen any

> behavorial issues with him at all, if anything, he is better than he

> has been in several months so I think you are right that I am worrying

> too much. I need to give it more time and just keep working at it.

>

> Thanks again!

>

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