Re: Digest Number 2442

[Guest guest]

I want to introduce myself, I have been on this list for quite a while

because I have been looking into weight loss surgery for a while!

I am 44yrs old, married 23yrs, one son 20yrs old, about 5'1 " and 315lbs

approx. I have looked at wls for 4 yrs. I am diabetic on insulin, treated for

high blood pressure/cholesterol, have a cpap for sleep apnea, etc.

I live in Greenville, NC and am going through the very slow, thorough

process of the " Greenville Gastric Bypass " surgery (Dr. Cunningham). I have not

made a final decision; my husband needs to meet with the dr first (he is very

concerned as my lifelong partner). And there's a ton of other things to

consider...

But I am determined to find out everything I can about what is available for

bariatric surgery including looking at the downsides of each type, etc.

I am also on other wls lists, trying to find out about the procedures and

everyone's experiences. The risks demand that I take a very serious careful

look at as much as I can before I make a decision that will have such serious

potential for major complications EARLY and LATE!!!

Most of these complications were discussed and told to me at my first

meeting with Dr. Cunningham, and they are potentially life-threatening

short-term and long-term...this surgery is not a fun jaunt to fly through in a

day and off you go down the yellow brick road happily ever after...

I do not see why anyone would be afraid to read what other bariatric

surgeons have to say about this procedure done by Dr. R. (it is different than

what anyone else is doing currently).

I have noticed a great deal of criticism on this list about a former patient

of Dr. R's as the one errant disgruntled nuisance...

I have seen her website " Dr. Rutlege Busted " - and I am sure for anyone on

this list who have had, or is planning to have his mini-gastric bypass would

find this website terribly upsetting, but also very informative, at least

raising some very valid questions.

She may be a disgruntled ex-patient, but it seems there is a lot of research

and surgeons who do not recommend Dr. R's procedure for exactly what she

describes happened to her.

I am not afraid to find out what she is talking about. So far, when I

compare what they used to do decades ago (that was very bad/dangerous) to Dr.

R's surgery, well, I don't see much difference. It does not take a genius to

look at diagrams side to side to see the incredible similarities of Dr. R's

surgery and the old Billroth loops...

I hope that the possible complications of alkaline reflux is thoroughly

looked into by each person on this list, as well as comparing- the actual

procedure Dr. R does- to the old Bilroth loop...

Perhaps I will get kicked off this list for coming out of lurkdom for this

post, I hope not though. I am alarmed enough at what the gastric bypass they do

here in Greenville entails, I do not need to go further into other more

controversial surgery procedures to get the willies.

Any one who is not completely sobered by the - realization of living with

these surgeries, even with everything going completely well, would be foolish

indeed.

The surgery here (Greenville Gastric Bypass) is backed by approx 19 years of

stats and accompanying info. Although Dr. R has done a bunch (over 900?) he

does not have that kind of history to look at and use to evaluate things.

So, there are a lot of posts of seemingly happy newish patients on this

list. And, there are a lot of other renowned bariatric surgeons who critisize

Dr. R's procedures as one not used over two decades because of the problems,

along with lots of journal articles about the old operation...

It makes me feel very uncomfortable when no one here wants to even whisper

anything about this on this list.

Please don't crucify me, I'm just trying to figure out what's going on.

It's my body, my life (God's actually), and I really want to know ALL that I

can- the good, bad and the ugly as they say.

Thanks for listening, I'm so terribly at wits end with all of this. Lord I

just want to get a chance at a normal life at a normal weight...

Sincerely,

Yvonne

ymrahmes@...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/8/00 3:37:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,

ymrahmes@... writes:

> Please don't crucify me, I'm just trying to figure out what's going on.

It's

> my body, my life (God's actually), and I really want to know ALL that I

can-

> the good, bad and the ugly as they say.

Yvonne,

I won't crucify you, because you sound like your questions are honest. Each

person MUST decide for themselves. I suggest you go to a clinic with Dr. R

and talk to him personally about each and every one of your concerns.

As for my attitude about the disgruntled former patient....you had to suffer

through having her on the list BEFORE she was disgruntled to truly

understand. There are SEVERAL patients who have had problems. No one, least

of all Dr. R. promised that this surgery was without complications and risks.

I doubt VERY seriously if she will even HONESTLY tell people how much weight

she has actually lost at this point. I am sure she thinks it isn't relevant.

The disgruntled former patient had all the same research available before the

surgery, studied more than anyone I know, talked to more former patients than

anyone I know, obviously has an IQ that is off the charts, and CHOSE to have

the surgery. The research didn't change, but her interpretation of it did.

Considering her intelligence and her profession I am simply dumbfounded with

the explanation that she of all people, minimized it.

I personally DOUBT the truth of her own personal medical claims, and

CERTAINLY doubt that the issues she claims to have were not pre-existing

conditions if she has them at all. I believe she is one of those people who

thinks the means justifies the end. Were you around when she had a shrine to

Dr. R...the web site that touted how wonderful he was?

She had unrealistic expectations about the surgery...wanted to be a

Barbie.... Most of us are having this surgery...picking what we believe to be

the BEST surgery and the BEST surgeon.... to save our lives. You are

right...there are not years of research for a surgery that has only been

performed for three years. That was not a secret. That was part of my

decision process...did I want tried and true over new and perhaps better. I

did not choose to have the surgery when I first learned of it because Dr. R

had only performed about 80 surgeries at the time. I waited....Others out

there may be waiting for the years or studies. That is their option. No one

forced me into this surgery and no one forced anyone else, either. I

personally chose this surgery on two MAJOR issues. I loved that Dr. R was a

trauma surgeon. I felt like he was used to going into burning buildings (

very ill or critical patients) and coming out with a live one! I know that a

trauma surgeon won't stop because things look bad. I wanted someone with

that attitude because as an obese person the risks are SO much greater when

you are put to sleep etc. Also, I wanted the lap form of surgery. I could

have had a lap rny, but I accept that there are a different set of problems

with that surgery, not the least of which, is the ability to reverse it and

scar tissue. The differences in Dr. R's surgery from the " old " surgery make

sense to me. I DO see it as different surgery, but that is just MY

opinion....It certainly helped that all the doctors I spoke to about the

surgery thought it was a great idea too.

Regardless of what the disgruntled former patient says....she wanted to work

for Dr. R and when he turned her down she turned on him with a vengeance and

told several people she wanted to ruin him. Her background is enough to make

anyone question her tactics. If she is unhappy and truly believes what she

is saying she SHOULD put it out there. She is entitled to her experience and

her opinion. Pre-ops are entitled to her experience and opinion but not to

be bullied and assaulted by it. To single out every pre-op and write them

her story seems more than a little extreme to me. Opps...that word slipped

out... " extreme " . Most people don't have the time or the inclination to

invest what she is investing in her mission. One has to wonder why it is so

important to her. Most of us have other things more important in our lives.

For me it is hard enough just responding to every person who wants me to be a

contact, much less going after every person available.

She is skilled at manipulating the truth and attacking. I will probably get

some threatening letter from her for daring to question her. So what. I have

never trusted the zealot and if you choose to make your decision based upon

her research, so be it. That is YOUR right and I support it. I have never

felt personally compelled to have others make the same decisions I make and

this is no game for me. What I do take offense at is a person who for

whatever motive, sets out to ruin the reputation of a good and honest person.

However, I believe that truth always wins. I have no concerns personally

about my future health...however, if down the road I DO have problems I will

not in any way feel they were caused because Dr. R did not tell me everything

he knew at the time. If I could have solved this problem with weight

watchers or dieting or some other way, I would have...God knows I tried...but

I couldn't. I have not been a " fast " loser...so I think I was hopeless

without the surgery. For me it has been a wonderful decision and I have no

regrets.

I hope that you find exactly the surgery and surgeon that you are comfortable

with. If it turns out to be Dr. R great, if it doesn't that is great too.

Just don't be baffled by the bull shit.... Best of luck to you on your

journey.

Safe journey,

MGB 03 MAY 00

03 NOV 00 -75 lbs!

Safely on the other side!!!!

Dr. Rutledge clos.net

Self-funded company plan administered by Interactive Medical

Denied on appeal as an excluded benefit

Self Pay

[Guest guest]

Hi My Name Is Margaret and I am very enthusiastic about the possibility of

becoming a candidate for mini-bypass surgery. To date I have researched

various procedures for the past three years. Currently I am enthralled about

Dr. Rutledge' minimally invasive approach to this surgical procedure.

I know that this surgery is not a walk in the park, but it has not been easy

being overweight all of my life, continually failing at new diets, exercise

equipment, etc. This is my opportunity to Love me again, to regain a level

of self confidence which dimished years ago. It would be great to hear from

some of the successes of patients who are pleased with their new lives and

loves after surgery.

Thank you and I look forward to hearing from!!!

Sincerely Enthusiastic Margaret!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I can be reached at: Garnermdg@...

[Guest guest]

,

That was very nicely and elloquently put

Robin

Virginia

At 09:25 AM 11/8/00 EST, you wrote:

>In a message dated 11/8/00 3:37:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,

>ymrahmes@... writes:

>

>> Please don't crucify me, I'm just trying to figure out what's going on.

>It's

>> my body, my life (God's actually), and I really want to know ALL that I

>can-

>> the good, bad and the ugly as they say.

>

>Yvonne,

>I won't crucify you, because you sound like your questions are honest. Each

>person MUST decide for themselves. I suggest you go to a clinic with Dr. R

>and talk to him personally about each and every one of your concerns.

>

>As for my attitude about the disgruntled former patient....you had to suffer

>through having her on the list BEFORE she was disgruntled to truly

>understand. There are SEVERAL patients who have had problems. No one, least

>of all Dr. R. promised that this surgery was without complications and

risks.

> I doubt VERY seriously if she will even HONESTLY tell people how much

weight

>she has actually lost at this point. I am sure she thinks it isn't

relevant.

>The disgruntled former patient had all the same research available before

the

>surgery, studied more than anyone I know, talked to more former patients

than

>anyone I know, obviously has an IQ that is off the charts, and CHOSE to have

>the surgery. The research didn't change, but her interpretation of it did.

>Considering her intelligence and her profession I am simply dumbfounded with

>the explanation that she of all people, minimized it.

>

>I personally DOUBT the truth of her own personal medical claims, and

>CERTAINLY doubt that the issues she claims to have were not pre-existing

>conditions if she has them at all. I believe she is one of those people who

>thinks the means justifies the end. Were you around when she had a shrine to

>Dr. R...the web site that touted how wonderful he was?

>

>She had unrealistic expectations about the surgery...wanted to be a

>Barbie.... Most of us are having this surgery...picking what we believe to

be

>the BEST surgery and the BEST surgeon.... to save our lives. You are

>right...there are not years of research for a surgery that has only been

>performed for three years. That was not a secret. That was part of my

>decision process...did I want tried and true over new and perhaps better. I

>did not choose to have the surgery when I first learned of it because Dr. R

>had only performed about 80 surgeries at the time. I waited....Others out

>there may be waiting for the years or studies. That is their option. No one

>forced me into this surgery and no one forced anyone else, either. I

>personally chose this surgery on two MAJOR issues. I loved that Dr. R was a

>trauma surgeon. I felt like he was used to going into burning buildings (

>very ill or critical patients) and coming out with a live one! I know

that a

>trauma surgeon won't stop because things look bad. I wanted someone with

>that attitude because as an obese person the risks are SO much greater when

>you are put to sleep etc. Also, I wanted the lap form of surgery. I could

>have had a lap rny, but I accept that there are a different set of problems

>with that surgery, not the least of which, is the ability to reverse it and

>scar tissue. The differences in Dr. R's surgery from the " old " surgery make

>sense to me. I DO see it as different surgery, but that is just MY

>opinion....It certainly helped that all the doctors I spoke to about the

>surgery thought it was a great idea too.

>

>Regardless of what the disgruntled former patient says....she wanted to work

>for Dr. R and when he turned her down she turned on him with a vengeance and

>told several people she wanted to ruin him. Her background is enough to

make

>anyone question her tactics. If she is unhappy and truly believes what she

>is saying she SHOULD put it out there. She is entitled to her experience

and

>her opinion. Pre-ops are entitled to her experience and opinion but not to

>be bullied and assaulted by it. To single out every pre-op and write them

>her story seems more than a little extreme to me. Opps...that word slipped

>out... " extreme " . Most people don't have the time or the inclination to

>invest what she is investing in her mission. One has to wonder why it is so

>important to her. Most of us have other things more important in our

lives.

>For me it is hard enough just responding to every person who wants me to

be a

>contact, much less going after every person available.

>

>She is skilled at manipulating the truth and attacking. I will probably get

>some threatening letter from her for daring to question her. So what. I

have

>never trusted the zealot and if you choose to make your decision based upon

>her research, so be it. That is YOUR right and I support it. I have never

>felt personally compelled to have others make the same decisions I make and

>this is no game for me. What I do take offense at is a person who for

>whatever motive, sets out to ruin the reputation of a good and honest

person.

> However, I believe that truth always wins. I have no concerns personally

>about my future health...however, if down the road I DO have problems I will

>not in any way feel they were caused because Dr. R did not tell me

everything

>he knew at the time. If I could have solved this problem with weight

>watchers or dieting or some other way, I would have...God knows I

tried...but

>I couldn't. I have not been a " fast " loser...so I think I was hopeless

>without the surgery. For me it has been a wonderful decision and I have no

>regrets.

>

>I hope that you find exactly the surgery and surgeon that you are

comfortable

>with. If it turns out to be Dr. R great, if it doesn't that is great too.

>Just don't be baffled by the bull shit.... Best of luck to you on your

>journey.

>

>Safe journey,

>

>

>MGB 03 MAY 00

>03 NOV 00 -75 lbs!

>Safely on the other side!!!!

>Dr. Rutledge clos.net

>Self-funded company plan administered by Interactive Medical

>Denied on appeal as an excluded benefit

>Self Pay

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wish I knew the website. I want to hear her story. If it's something

that can possibly happen to me, I want to know about it, too!

Robin from Ohio

Re: Digest Number 2442

> I want to introduce myself, I have been on this list for quite a while

because I have been looking into weight loss surgery for a while!

> I am 44yrs old, married 23yrs, one son 20yrs old, about 5'1 " and 315lbs

approx. I have looked at wls for 4 yrs. I am diabetic on insulin, treated

for high blood pressure/cholesterol, have a cpap for sleep apnea, etc.

> I live in Greenville, NC and am going through the very slow, thorough

process of the " Greenville Gastric Bypass " surgery (Dr. Cunningham). I have

not made a final decision; my husband needs to meet with the dr first (he is

very concerned as my lifelong partner). And there's a ton of other things to

consider...

> But I am determined to find out everything I can about what is

available for bariatric surgery including looking at the downsides of each

type, etc.

> I am also on other wls lists, trying to find out about the procedures

and everyone's experiences. The risks demand that I take a very serious

careful look at as much as I can before I make a decision that will have

such serious potential for major complications EARLY and LATE!!!

> Most of these complications were discussed and told to me at my first

meeting with Dr. Cunningham, and they are potentially life-threatening

short-term and long-term...this surgery is not a fun jaunt to fly through in

a day and off you go down the yellow brick road happily ever after...

> I do not see why anyone would be afraid to read what other bariatric

surgeons have to say about this procedure done by Dr. R. (it is different

than what anyone else is doing currently).

> I have noticed a great deal of criticism on this list about a former

patient of Dr. R's as the one errant disgruntled nuisance...

> I have seen her website " Dr. Rutlege Busted " - and I am sure for anyone

on this list who have had, or is planning to have his mini-gastric bypass

would find this website terribly upsetting, but also very informative, at

least raising some very valid questions.

> She may be a disgruntled ex-patient, but it seems there is a lot of

research and surgeons who do not recommend Dr. R's procedure for exactly

what she describes happened to her.

> I am not afraid to find out what she is talking about. So far, when I

compare what they used to do decades ago (that was very bad/dangerous) to

Dr. R's surgery, well, I don't see much difference. It does not take a

genius to look at diagrams side to side to see the incredible similarities

of Dr. R's surgery and the old Billroth loops...

> I hope that the possible complications of alkaline reflux is thoroughly

looked into by each person on this list, as well as comparing- the actual

procedure Dr. R does- to the old Bilroth loop...

> Perhaps I will get kicked off this list for coming out of lurkdom for

this post, I hope not though. I am alarmed enough at what the gastric

bypass they do here in Greenville entails, I do not need to go further into

other more controversial surgery procedures to get the willies.

> Any one who is not completely sobered by the - realization of living

with these surgeries, even with everything going completely well, would be

foolish indeed.

> The surgery here (Greenville Gastric Bypass) is backed by approx 19

years of stats and accompanying info. Although Dr. R has done a bunch (over

900?) he does not have that kind of history to look at and use to evaluate

things.

> So, there are a lot of posts of seemingly happy newish patients on this

list. And, there are a lot of other renowned bariatric surgeons who

critisize Dr. R's procedures as one not used over two decades because of the

problems, along with lots of journal articles about the old operation...

> It makes me feel very uncomfortable when no one here wants to even

whisper anything about this on this list.

> Please don't crucify me, I'm just trying to figure out what's going on.

It's my body, my life (God's actually), and I really want to know ALL that I

can- the good, bad and the ugly as they say.

> Thanks for listening, I'm so terribly at wits end with all of this.

Lord I just want to get a chance at a normal life at a normal weight...

> Sincerely,

>Yvonne

>ymrahmes@...

>

>

>

>