Re: Can someone please tell me if this band is sitting correctly?

[Guest guest]

Hi Christy,

I am having the same issue with my son. He just got his DOC band on Tuesday and we called and made an appt to come in sooner. The point is not centered in the front and there's space in the back like you said. I would suggest calling CT and going back.

Just out of curiosity, which CT did you go to? I went to Paramus.

From: Christy

Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:18 AM

Plagiocephaly

Subject: Can someone please tell me if this band is sitting correctly?

Hi all!We are going on one week of wearing the DOC band and we go back onTuesday for our first follow up appointment. We are concerned that itis not fitting well over his right ear. When the band is sittingcorrectly, which it only does when you first put it on, it does notcover his ear. Once it is on for a second, it settles into place andpractically covers his ear, and also leaves a ton of open space towardthe back of his neck.We feel like it does not fit properly, and I know that they have to makesome adjustments to see how it settles, but what worries me is the openspace, shouldn't that have something over it considering that is theplagio side?I posted two photos in the L Babies Plagio album, under Lachlan correctand Lachlan how its sitting.Thank you in advance for any advice!!Christy

[Guest guest]

Well, we did a STARband and not a doc band, but that looks too far on the ears for my comfort. It also seems that there is quite a bit behind the ears that is cut out, but maybe that is normal for a doc band? I don't know. It wouldn't be for a STARband.

It seems that the band is shifting too much. I would definitely call on Monday.

Can someone please tell me if this band is sitting correctly?

Hi all!We are going on one week of wearing the DOC band and we go back onTuesday for our first follow up appointment. We are concerned that itis not fitting well over his right ear. When the band is sittingcorrectly, which it only does when you first put it on, it does notcover his ear. Once it is on for a second, it settles into place andpractically covers his ear, and also leaves a ton of open space towardthe back of his neck.We feel like it does not fit properly, and I know that they have to makesome adjustments to see how it settles, but what worries me is the openspace, shouldn't that have something over it considering that is theplagio side?I posted two photos in the L Babies Plagio album, under Lachlan correctand Lachlan how its sitting.Thank you in advance for any advice!!Christy

[Guest guest]

The point is rarely centered exactly, it's usually off to one side a little.

It's only a problem if it's way over, like centered over his eye. Are you

referring to space in the back of the ears as Christy was? Or somewhere else?

Jake-3.5 (DOCBand Grad 9/08)

Raleigh, NC

>

> Hi Christy,

> I am having the same issue with my son. He just got his DOC band on Tuesday

and we called and made an appt to come in sooner. The point is not centered in

the front and there's space in the back like you said. I would suggest calling

CT and going back.

> Just out of curiosity, which CT did you go to? I went to Paramus.

>

>

>

>

> From: Christy

> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:18 AM

> Plagiocephaly

> Subject: Can someone please tell me if this band is sitting

correctly?

>

>

>

>

> Hi all!

>

> We are going on one week of wearing the DOC band and we go back on

> Tuesday for our first follow up appointment. We are concerned that it

> is not fitting well over his right ear. When the band is sitting

> correctly, which it only does when you first put it on, it does not

> cover his ear. Once it is on for a second, it settles into place and

> practically covers his ear, and also leaves a ton of open space toward

> the back of his neck.

>

> We feel like it does not fit properly, and I know that they have to make

> some adjustments to see how it settles, but what worries me is the open

> space, shouldn't that have something over it considering that is the

> plagio side?

>

> I posted two photos in the L Babies Plagio album, under Lachlan correct

> and Lachlan how its sitting.

>

> Thank you in advance for any advice!!

>

> Christy

>

[Guest guest]

My experience with a rotating STARband promts me to re-frame the

question as a two-step analysis:

IS IT ROTATION? Occipital prominence slips into void that is meant

to allow growth in the flat area, spinning the entire helmet on dorso-

ventral (superior-inferior) axis. Answer: YES. While this condition

persists, the helmet is relatively ineffective. Holding points

aren't torquing skull as intended. There is probably some some

preventative benefit of protection from flat surfaces, and some

remolding in the crown due to gravity.

SHOULD YOU SQUAWK? - This looks like a near miss which will soon be

corrected by growth. STARband parents in this situation are

instructed by the manufacturer to keep adjusting the helmet to the

correct orientation for a period of two weeks initially. Only then

would you consider the possibility of errors.

The concern I would express at this point is that DOC Bands are more

costly, are supposed to be more efficient, and wear out after a

relatively short period. Since lesser internal forces have been

acting upon the helmet shell during this period, I would seek

assurance that the useful life of the helmet is expected to extend.

It took me a long time to see that Clara's first helmet had sideburns

angled in a counterproductive fashion, due to an apparent casting

error. I struggled with it for two *months*. (The manufacturer

ultimately provided a new helmet.) I see nothing like that here,

though it would be hard to convey through this medium in any case.

--

Thad Launderville

Montpelier, VT

Clara age 2, STARband grad

On Apr 18, 2010, at 10:18 AM, Christy wrote:

> I posted two photos in the L Babies Plagio album, under Lachlan

> correct

> and Lachlan how its sitting.

[Guest guest]

Thad,

I'm wondering how much a helmet needs to fit perfectly for there to be good correction. I can think of a couple of cases where there were lots of problems with the band covering things, but when the parents went for follow ups, there was a lot of correction. I think that Clara's problem may have been due to other factors, such as her age. It seems that the younger babies can withstand a helmet that isn't perfectly centered. For toddlers like Clara and , things need to be more perfect because there is less growth to begin with.

Having said that, I was bothered by 's helmet when it looked like the pictures posted here. It seemed shifted a little bit and over the ear a little as well; however, we didn't get the padding added until 5 weeks (I didn't go to the initial follow up and the concerns wasn't expressed correctly by my partner). The padding fixed the problem and it was pretty much centered at that point. Even with those five weeks of a shifted helmet, she corrected from 95 percent to 92.4 percent in the first 9 weeks. However, this is brachy band and not a plagio band that I'm talking about.

But, in all of our cases, they are trying to fit a band on a head with flat spots so it can be difficult to get the band to center perfectly. Even the best fit might look slightly off for a severe head. So, hopefully CT will look at the case on Tuesday and determine whether it really is a problem.

Re: Can someone please tell me if this band is sitting correctly?

My experience with a rotating STARband promts me to re-frame the question as a two-step analysis:IS IT ROTATION? Occipital prominence slips into void that is meant to allow growth in the flat area, spinning the entire helmet on dorso- ventral (superior-inferior) axis. Answer: YES. While this condition persists, the helmet is relatively ineffective. Holding points aren't torquing skull as intended. There is probably some some preventative benefit of protection from flat surfaces, and some remolding in the crown due to gravity.SHOULD YOU SQUAWK? - This looks like a near miss which will soon be corrected by growth. STARband parents in this situation are instructed by the manufacturer to keep adjusting the helmet to the correct orientation for a period of two weeks initially. Only then would you consider the possibility of errors.The concern I would express at this point is that DOC Bands are more costly, are supposed to be more efficient, and wear out after a relatively short period. Since lesser internal forces have been acting upon the helmet shell during this period, I would seek assurance that the useful life of the helmet is expected to extend.It took me a long time to see that Clara's first helmet had sideburns angled in a counterproductive fashion, due to an apparent casting error. I struggled with it for two *months*. (The manufacturer ultimately provided a new helmet.) I see nothing like that here, though it would be hard to convey through this medium in any case.-- Thad LaundervilleMontpelier, VTClara age 2, STARband gradOn Apr 18, 2010, at 10:18 AM, Christy wrote:> I posted two photos in the L Babies Plagio album, under Lachlan > correct> and Lachlan how its sitting.

[Guest guest]

On Apr 19, 2010, at 7:50 AM, wrote:

> I'm wondering how much a helmet needs to fit perfectly for there to

> be good correction. I can think of a couple of cases where there

> were lots of problems with the band covering things, but when the

> parents went for follow ups, there was a lot of correction. I think

> that Clara's problem may have been due to other factors, such as

> her age. It seems that the younger babies can withstand a helmet

> that isn't perfectly centered. For toddlers like Clara and ,

> things need to be more perfect because there is less growth to

> begin with.

I am jealous of the younger babies, and yes, I still have some sour

grapes from choosing a bad orthotist. Those two months I was stuck

with a rotating helmet, a better clinic might have actually fixed

Clara's head, because there was good growth occurring at that time.

I have to put that in perspective against the ENTIRE YEAR PRIOR,

during which I let our pediatrician blow smoke up my butt.

Still, I think a rotating " active, " or gradually reconforming helmet

like the DOC Band or STARband, is even worse than a well-fitting

" passive, " or symmetrical helmet. The former follows the

circumference of the deformity, more or less, so when it rotates, you

get " passive " type, light contact in flat areas, where there ought to

be none. With an actual passive helmet, the shape is more rounded,

so (I imagine) the void space is largely preserved. While neither

exerts enough force to hold the plates of the skull in any particular

shape, the net transient forces in the passive helmet should trend

more toward correction.

So, regardless of the circumstances of a particular case of

persistently rotating helmet (which I am guessing will not occur with

the original poster), I think one should at least muster

dissatisfaction in proportion to the price difference between passive

and active bands.

--

Thad Launderville

Montpelier, VT

Clara age 2, STARband grad

[Guest guest]

Hi Thad, I've spoken to the cranial-facial surgeon, parents on this board, and 3 different orthotists at Hanger.  I still cannot get a satisfactory definition of the difference between an active and passive band.  You seem very knowledgeable and obviously had your ups and downs with a band for your daughter.  In your experience and discussions with your orthotist what would you say the true difference is?  I'm really at a loss, even when I google it I get so many different definitions and opinions.  I would appreciate your input.  Thanks.

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Thad Launderville <p38thadl@...> wrote:

 

On Apr 19, 2010, at 7:50 AM, wrote:

> I'm wondering how much a helmet needs to fit perfectly for there to

> be good correction. I can think of a couple of cases where there

> were lots of problems with the band covering things, but when the

> parents went for follow ups, there was a lot of correction. I think

> that Clara's problem may have been due to other factors, such as

> her age. It seems that the younger babies can withstand a helmet

> that isn't perfectly centered. For toddlers like Clara and ,

> things need to be more perfect because there is less growth to

> begin with.

I am jealous of the younger babies, and yes, I still have some sour

grapes from choosing a bad orthotist. Those two months I was stuck

with a rotating helmet, a better clinic might have actually fixed

Clara's head, because there was good growth occurring at that time.

I have to put that in perspective against the ENTIRE YEAR PRIOR,

during which I let our pediatrician blow smoke up my butt.

Still, I think a rotating " active, " or gradually reconforming helmet

like the DOC Band or STARband, is even worse than a well-fitting

" passive, " or symmetrical helmet. The former follows the

circumference of the deformity, more or less, so when it rotates, you

get " passive " type, light contact in flat areas, where there ought to

be none. With an actual passive helmet, the shape is more rounded,

so (I imagine) the void space is largely preserved. While neither

exerts enough force to hold the plates of the skull in any particular

shape, the net transient forces in the passive helmet should trend

more toward correction.

So, regardless of the circumstances of a particular case of

persistently rotating helmet (which I am guessing will not occur with

the original poster), I think one should at least muster

dissatisfaction in proportion to the price difference between passive

and active bands.

--

Thad Launderville

Montpelier, VT

Clara age 2, STARband grad

[Guest guest]

Active

bands have pressure points which " hold " the prominent areas while

" redirecting " growth in the flat areas. They are fit very close

to the head in the prominent areas and thus need to be closely monitored.

The flat areas have room to grow but not a lot and these areas are shaved out

usually at each appt. They apply a gentle pressure. Passive

bands do not hold in any area. They fit looser and totally rely on growth

to round the head. The active uses growth and the redirection from the

pressure points.

Molly

Novato, California

Nicolas, 4, tort & plagio,

STARband (CIRS Oakland) 4/24/06-9/12/06, Graduate!

, 7

, 10

From: Plagiocephaly

[mailto:Plagiocephaly ] On Behalf Of Rapp

Sent: 19 April 2010 7:24 PM

Plagiocephaly

Subject: Re: Can someone please tell me if this band is sitting

correctly?

Hi Thad,

I've spoken to the cranial-facial surgeon, parents on this

board, and 3 different orthotists at Hanger. I still cannot get a

satisfactory definition of the difference between an active and passive band.

You seem very knowledgeable and obviously had your ups and downs with a

band for your daughter. In your experience and discussions with your

orthotist what would you say the true difference is? I'm really at a

loss, even when I google it I get so many different definitions and opinions.

I would appreciate your input. Thanks.

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Thad Launderville <p38thadl@...> wrote:

On Apr 19, 2010, at 7:50 AM, wrote:

> I'm wondering how much a helmet needs to fit perfectly for there to

> be good correction. I can think of a couple of cases where there

> were lots of problems with the band covering things, but when the

> parents went for follow ups, there was a lot of correction. I think

> that Clara's problem may have been due to other factors, such as

> her age. It seems that the younger babies can withstand a helmet

> that isn't perfectly centered. For toddlers like Clara and ,

> things need to be more perfect because there is less growth to

> begin with.

I am jealous of the younger babies, and yes, I still have some sour

grapes from choosing a bad orthotist. Those two months I was stuck

with a rotating helmet, a better clinic might have actually fixed

Clara's head, because there was good growth occurring at that time.

I have to put that in perspective against the ENTIRE YEAR PRIOR,

during which I let our pediatrician blow smoke up my butt.

Still, I think a rotating " active, " or gradually reconforming helmet

like the DOC Band or STARband, is even worse than a well-fitting

" passive, " or symmetrical helmet. The former follows the

circumference of the deformity, more or less, so when it rotates, you

get " passive " type, light contact in flat areas, where there ought to

be none. With an actual passive helmet, the shape is more rounded,

so (I imagine) the void space is largely preserved. While neither

exerts enough force to hold the plates of the skull in any particular

shape, the net transient forces in the passive helmet should trend

more toward correction.

So, regardless of the circumstances of a particular case of

persistently rotating helmet (which I am guessing will not occur with

the original poster), I think one should at least muster

dissatisfaction in proportion to the price difference between passive

and active bands.

--

Thad Launderville

Montpelier, VT

Clara age 2, STARband grad

[Guest guest]

My son had a STARband from 5-7 months and a DOCband from 10-13 months.

In my experience, I agree with in that the fit doesn't have to be

perfect to get good correction. This was the case with my son. However, to get

OPTIMAL correction I believe the fit should not rotate more than an inch up and

down and right to left. The DOCband has an edge over any other band because of

it's custom made, tighter fit which holds the gentle pressure on the points

needed more consistently.

My son's STARband rotated too much and while the results were good, they were

ultimately not great because as Thad mentioned, " Holding points aren't torquing

skull as intended. "

What it comes down to is that the band needs to fit properly, meaning no squishy

eyes or folded ears and pressure spots that go away within an hour.

Christy, I hope CT helped you with adjustments. The DOCband, to me, should not

do what you described. If it were a STARband, it would be a possibility because

the STARband has a looser fit. As always, listen to your instincts. If you

think something is wrong, you are probably right.

Mom to Luke, 17 months

STARband grad 4/7-6/10/09

DOCband grad 9/2-12/7/09

Plagio & Brachy

NYC

>

> > I posted two photos in the L Babies Plagio album, under Lachlan

> > correct

> > and Lachlan how its sitting.

>

[Guest guest]

Well, we went to our first check up and things went well. I asked about

the ear area and the clinician asked if it ever makes his ear fold and

it doesn't, so she said it was fine. I still feel like it is a little

close, considering the left ear sideburn is a normal space away from the

ear. She did shave some off of the brow area again as she thought that

was hanging a bit low.

I definitely saw some progress next to the pre-mold, but it is so hard

to tell! She agreed that there was definitely some growth. One week

down....many to go!!!

Thanks everyone!

Christy

> >

> > > I posted two photos in the L Babies Plagio album, under Lachlan

> > > correct

> > > and Lachlan how its sitting.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Glad it went well! The ear holes are lined up with each other when the band is

off, right? I'm guessing that as her plagio improves, and hopefully her ear

asymmetry with it, the ear will shift backwards and the sideburn won't be as

close/overlapping, and will actually be a good visual indicator of the

improvement you'll see in the near future. Essentially, it's not the sideburn

that is " off, " but most likely her ear position from the plagio (the band is

made to symmetry and is currently on an asymmetrical head), but by the end of

treatment, things should line up better. (I should have mentioned this in my

earlier responses to you, but it didn't click until you mentioned the comparison

to the other ear).

It's great that there's already been some growth too! Hope it keeps up!

Jake-3.5 (DOCBand Grad 9/08)

Raleigh, NC

> > >

> > > > I posted two photos in the L Babies Plagio album, under Lachlan

> > > > correct

> > > > and Lachlan how its sitting.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm not so assured. 's ideas are very much like what delayed

our getting a new helmet made when rotation persisted. A handful of

hope doesn't erase the pictorial evidence of a rotating helmet in my

mind. But most concerning for me is this " shaving " that occurred. I

think it's important to clarify: did they remove liner material from

inside the helmet, or trim away shell and lining together, to expose

more of the face?

In the defective helmet scenario, removing *liner* material could be

an attempt to postpone the decision to re-manufacture, as more growth

will then have to occur before the helmet finds its true holding

points on the head. (At which point the rotation would be constant,

and more obviously erroneous.) The parent might be expected to

accept an inappropriately loose helmet for the duration of treatment.

Or, the clinician might think they can use their foam sculpting

skills to get good holding points eventually, even though the shell

contour is counterproductive. But I liken this to the children's

story of the lady who cut the hole out of her blanket. (Does anyone

know the name of that story? Time seems to have forgotten it, though

I found one similar query unanswered in Google.)

If that's what happened, the time to start squawking is now.

--

Thad

On Apr 21, 2010, at 10:04 AM, nwilkens2275 wrote:

> Glad it went well! The ear holes are lined up with each other when

> the band is off, right? I'm guessing that as her plagio improves,

> and hopefully her ear asymmetry with it, the ear will shift

> backwards and the sideburn won't be as close/overlapping, and will

> actually be a good visual indicator of the improvement you'll see

> in the near future. Essentially, it's not the sideburn that is

> " off, " but most likely her ear position from the plagio (the band

> is made to symmetry and is currently on an asymmetrical head), but

> by the end of treatment, things should line up better. (I should

> have mentioned this in my earlier responses to you, but it didn't

> click until you mentioned the comparison to the other ear).

>

> It's great that there's already been some growth too! Hope it keeps

> up!

>

>

> Jake-3.5 (DOCBand Grad 9/08)

> Raleigh, NC

>

>

>>>>

>>>>> I posted two photos in the L Babies Plagio album, under Lachlan

>>>>> correct

>>>>> and Lachlan how its sitting.

>>>>

[Guest guest]

Christy-

Believe me, your band is just fine. Thad is speaking from his experience with a

STARBand which is completely different than the DOCBand. I've seen very crooked

STARBands (when sitting on a table). That is not a well made band. An effective

band needs to be made to symmetry, otherwise, how does the head know which way

to grow.

Also, my son had the exact same issues and they shaved the plastic shell

(including liner) to give him more space above his eye. Again, this is VERY

COMMON for the first week of wear. And the sideburn that touched the front of

his ear slightly, eventually was fully on his cheek at the end of treatment and

5 more mm of improvement in ear assymetry.

Moreover, you're already seeing improvement/growth in just ONE WEEK. This is NOT

a sign of a bad-fitting band.

I don't want Thad to worry you, because his experience was completely different

(foam was shaved out, extra pieces were glued in, etc. DOCBand clinicians are

highly skilled and they would NEVER glue extra foam in anywhere). I have seen

PLENTY of stories on this board in 2+ years of poor fitting STARBands, and only

ONE of a DOCBand that had to be made over (with fantastic results I might add).

Cranial Tech knows their product the best, so they should be the best judge of a

good fit.

Jake-3.5 (DOCBand Grad 9/08)

Raleigh, NC

> >>>>

> >>>>> I posted two photos in the L Babies Plagio album, under Lachlan

> >>>>> correct

> >>>>> and Lachlan how its sitting.

> >>>>

>

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to clarify one thing I said before everyone assumes I think all

STARBands aren't well-made!:

" I've seen very crooked STARBands (when sitting on a table). That is not a well

made band. "

I meant that a crooked STARBand (or any band for that matter) is an indicator

that it is not made correctly. Not ALL STARBands are made poorly, obviously,

since many have had great success with them. But I have seen quite a few that

look like the same assymetrical shape as the head was to begin with, which won't

help make the head round. So that's all I was trying to say.

Thanks.

Jake-3.5 (DOCBand Grad 9/08)

Raleigh, NC

> > >>>>

> > >>>>> I posted two photos in the L Babies Plagio album, under Lachlan

> > >>>>> correct

> > >>>>> and Lachlan how its sitting.

> > >>>>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Christy,

Help me understand - is one ear aligned correctly in the band and the other isn't? Is it a matter of the ear asymmetry causing the problem? If so, why can't they cut a little bit extra around that one ear for more comfort? Imagine how you would feel with something covering part of your ear.

How do bands usually address this? didn't have this so I have no idea whether the bands are made to accommodate the ears as the currently are and can be cut different as the ears move or whether the baby is expected to be uncomfortable until the ears fix themselves?

Re: Can someone please tell me if this band is sitting correctly?

Well, we went to our first check up and things went well. I asked aboutthe ear area and the clinician asked if it ever makes his ear fold andit doesn't, so she said it was fine. I still feel like it is a littleclose, considering the left ear sideburn is a normal space away from theear. She did shave some off of the brow area again as she thought thatwas hanging a bit low.I definitely saw some progress next to the pre-mold, but it is so hardto tell! She agreed that there was definitely some growth. One weekdown....many to go!!!Thanks everyone!Christy> >> > > I posted two photos in the L Babies Plagio album, under Lachlan> > > correct> > > and Lachlan how its sitting.> >>

[Guest guest]

On Apr 21, 2010, at 11:59 AM, nwilkens2275 wrote:

> An effective band needs to be made to symmetry, otherwise, how does

> the head know which way to grow.

That does represent a very different idea than what I had of how DOC

Bands are formed. STARbands can be made either way, and I certainly

would rather have had ours the *other* way, given our extremely poor

experience. Theoretically, there was a thick enough layer of lining

foam that, given enough growth, one could reach symmetry through

skillful adjustments. Starting our second band at 18 months,

however, they were probably trying to give me something that couldn't

possibly rotate, just to shut me up. (Good luck with that.)

--

Thad Launderville

Montpelier, VT

Clara age 2, STARband grad

[Guest guest]

and others,

Thank you all for your questions, because they are making me think about this band and whether it is really fitting correctly. I do think that sometimes it is user error and I don't put it on correctly so it moves a little bit more. When he is sleeping, which is mostly on his tummy, it tends to go down towards his nose and I adjust it if I am up feeding him or checking on him.

As for the ears, good point, I don't know why I didn't think about that his ears were asymmetrical and eventually the one right ear would have plenty of room. I would think she would cut a bit more just for comfort... I may ask her again about it next week considering I did take him to the pediatrician today for grabbing at his ear (the right one). She said that all is well and it may be related to his teething and/or a comfort thing. It did inspire me to make a someecard:

http://www.someecards.com/usercards/viewcard/e4b1b299de107dbc32651ac2a5a5ade1

This is the second time I have gone to the dr. for nothing, and I can assure myself that it won't be the last!:)

I posted photos under the L album, with photos of him taken today with and without his band on.

I have a friend whose 3 month old does have some brachycephaly, does that tend to "work itself out" easier than plagiocephaly? She had to point it out to her dr. and of course I noticed it immediately... She is already working on repositioning techniques.

Thanks all! > > > > > > > I posted two photos in the L Babies Plagio album, under Lachlan > > > > correct > > > > and Lachlan how its sitting. > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

,

Looking around Cranial Technologies' website, I believe you are

mistaken about DOC Bands being " made to symmetry. " " Unique " seems to

be their theme. This link gives a birds eye view of a band closely

following the contours of an asymmetrical head closely, and it

doesn't look like it would sit any more plumb on a table than Clara's

bands:

http://www.cranialtech.com/index.php?

option=com_content & view=article & id=69 & Itemid=114

And the text refers to symmetrical helmets as a contrasting approach:

> This active approach to treating plagiocephaly is different from

> passive devices that are designed to wait for your baby’s head to

> grow into a symmetrical shell.

The idea of closely fitting, sculptable full-symmetry bands is

intriguing, though. I've often thought that Clara would have done

better in a plain old passive helmet. This would be a great

intermediate approach for novice cranial-remolding orthotists. I

wonder if any parents here have tried a fully symmetrical STARband

for moderate to severe asymmetry.

--

Thad Launderville

Montpelier, VT

Clara age 2, STARband grad

On Apr 21, 2010, at 2:26 PM, nwilkens2275 wrote:

> I just wanted to clarify one thing I said before everyone assumes I

> think all STARBands aren't well-made!:

>

> " I've seen very crooked STARBands (when sitting on a table). That

> is not a well made band. "

>

> I meant that a crooked STARBand (or any band for that matter) is an

> indicator that it is not made correctly. Not ALL STARBands are made

> poorly, obviously, since many have had great success with them. But

> I have seen quite a few that look like the same assymetrical shape

> as the head was to begin with, which won't help make the head

> round. So that's all I was trying to say.

>

> Thanks.

>

> Jake-3.5 (DOCBand Grad 9/08)

> Raleigh, NC

>

>

>

>

>>

>> Christy-

>> Believe me, your band is just fine. Thad is speaking from his

>> experience with a STARBand which is completely different than the

>> DOCBand. I've seen very crooked STARBands (when sitting on a

>> table). That is not a well made band. An effective band needs to

>> be made to symmetry, otherwise, how does the head know which way

>> to grow.

[Guest guest]

Thad-

I couldn't disagree with you more. That aerial view of that band looks like it

was made to symmetry to me. Of course, it's on a head that is not symmetrical,

so maybe that is what you are seeing. The STARBands I have seen that were not

made to symmetry were seriously crooked. Plus, half of the top of a DOCBand is

missing, you can hardly see what you're looking at from that picture. I'm

talking sitting on a table, it will be flush evenly across the bottom (neck) and

the sideburns will be even and everything else will line up (except maybe the

opening, because it's a little floppier there). Have you seen a DOCBand in

person?

Also, I've talked extensively with CT personnel (they are very supportive of

this message board and are very forthcoming with information) and have even

spoken to Jeanne Pomatto-Hertz herself (she's a genious by the way). They take

an image of the head (DSi - which is taken in 3D with cameras, not

lasers/scanners, outstanding technology), make the mold of the assymetric head,

then they " take down " (shave) the prominent parts a little bit for a tight fit

at those holding points, then they fill in the flat parts with the same molding

compound so that in the end, they have a nice round skull/mold. Then the band is

made to fit that symmetrical head mold and the excess plastic is cut away.

Jeanne still does a lot of the correcting of head molds herself, and also hand

draws the cut lines on some of the bands.

You can call them and ask them yourself if you don't believe me. I'm sure they'd

be more than happy to answer your questions.

Jake-3.5 (DOCBand Grad 9/08)

Raleigh, NC

P.S. As a side note, we've (the moderators) contacted Orthomerica and Hanger for

similar information/questions numerous times and never get a response.

> >>

> >> Christy-

> >> Believe me, your band is just fine. Thad is speaking from his

> >> experience with a STARBand which is completely different than the

> >> DOCBand. I've seen very crooked STARBands (when sitting on a

> >> table). That is not a well made band. An effective band needs to

> >> be made to symmetry, otherwise, how does the head know which way

> >> to grow.

>

[Guest guest]

I'm not going to get in the middle of the general argument because I don't know anything about this.

I just wanted to make the point that putting a helmet on the table so that the neck part sits isn't the best way to see if it is symmetrical. This is because often the neck is cut up because it touches the shoulders when the baby turns the head. At least this is true with STARbands. I can't speak for the doc band. So, to judge a STARband this way isn't accurate unless it is looked at before adjustments are made for the baby on the fittiing appointment. I would think that for a baby with tort, more of one side would need to be cut. Or, due to the eyeballing of this cutting, the cut may not be perfectly even on both sides, but this doesn't really matter because it doesn't touch the head anyway. It's just important that it doesn't get bumped by the shoulders. Of course, 's head was the size of an average 5 month old when she was banded at 15 months so maybe babies with larger heads don't need this. Regardless, one cannot assume that just because the band doesn't look symmetrical when put on a table, it isn't.

Re: Can someone please tell me if this band is sitting correctly?

Thad-I couldn't disagree with you more. That aerial view of that band looks like it was made to symmetry to me. Of course, it's on a head that is not symmetrical, so maybe that is what you are seeing. The STARBands I have seen that were not made to symmetry were seriously crooked. Plus, half of the top of a DOCBand is missing, you can hardly see what you're looking at from that picture. I'm talking sitting on a table, it will be flush evenly across the bottom (neck) and the sideburns will be even and everything else will line up (except maybe the opening, because it's a little floppier there). Have you seen a DOCBand in person? Also, I've talked extensively with CT personnel (they are very supportive of this message board and are very forthcoming with information) and have even spoken to Jeanne Pomatto-Hertz herself (she's a genious by the way). They take an image of the head (DSi - which is taken in 3D with cameras, not lasers/scanners, outstanding technology), make the mold of the assymetric head, then they "take down" (shave) the prominent parts a little bit for a tight fit at those holding points, then they fill in the flat parts with the same molding compound so that in the end, they have a nice round skull/mold. Then the band is made to fit that symmetrical head mold and the excess plastic is cut away. Jeanne still does a lot of the correcting of head molds herself, and also hand draws the cut lines on some of the bands.You can call them and ask them yourself if you don't believe me. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to answer your questions.Jake-3.5 (DOCBand Grad 9/08)Raleigh, NCP.S. As a side note, we've (the moderators) contacted Orthomerica and Hanger for similar information/questions numerous times and never get a response. > >>> >> Christy-> >> Believe me, your band is just fine. Thad is speaking from his > >> experience with a STARBand which is completely different than the > >> DOCBand. I've seen very crooked STARBands (when sitting on a > >> table). That is not a well made band. An effective band needs to > >> be made to symmetry, otherwise, how does the head know which way > >> to grow.>

[Guest guest]

On Apr 22, 2010, at 7:18 AM, nwilkens2275 wrote:

> They take an image of the head (DSi - which is taken in 3D with

> cameras, not lasers/scanners, outstanding technology), make the

> mold of the assymetric head, then they " take down " (shave) the

> prominent parts a little bit for a tight fit at those holding

> points, then they fill in the flat parts with the same molding

> compound so that in the end, they have a nice round skull/mold.

> Then the band is made to fit that symmetrical head mold and the

> excess plastic is cut away.

In order to be " symmetrical, " they would have to re-image one half of

the modified mold, reverse it, and make a new mold combining the

reversed and non-reversed halves. The technique you describe is no

different in principle than any other " active " band, though I have no

doubt that Cranial Technologies is far more successful in

accomplishing an effective fit.

--

Thad Launderville

Montpelier, VT

Clara age 2, STARband '10

[Guest guest]

Christy,

I am glad that you posted these pictures. It looks clear to me that the other side looks fine so it probably is just a matter of the ears not being aligned. However, it may be a comfort thing. If you thought there was an ear infection, then he is bothered by it. I would ask for more to be cut out so that it doesn't cover the ear so much. I guess others have said that it is okay, but it does bother me that they cut out so much from behind the ear on that right side. But, again, we did a STARband and not the doc band. But, I think that is a question that you expressed that you should ask for more information about. Have them explain why the band pressure is not needed there.

In terms of your brachy question, I think that the answer is no. My daughter's brachy developed when we repositioned for plagio and it just got worse until about 9 to 12 months. In fact, brachy is harder to correct, even with a band. Help your friend get the process started so that she can get a band if repositioning doesn't work in the next couple of months.

Re: Can someone please tell me if this band is sitting correctly? and others,Thank you all for your questions, because they are making me think aboutthis band and whether it is really fitting correctly. I do think thatsometimes it is user error and I don't put it on correctly so it moves alittle bit more. When he is sleeping, which is mostly on his tummy, ittends to go down towards his nose and I adjust it if I am up feeding himor checking on him.As for the ears, good point, I don't know why I didn't think about thathis ears were asymmetrical and eventually the one right ear would haveplenty of room. I would think she would cut a bit more just forcomfort... I may ask her again about it next week considering I didtake him to the pediatrician today for grabbing at his ear (the rightone). She said that all is well and it may be related to his teethingand/or a comfort thing. It did inspire me to make a someecard:http://www.someecards.com/usercards/viewcard/e4b1b299de107dbc32651ac2a5a\5ade1<http://www.someecards.com/usercards/viewcard/e4b1b299de107dbc32651ac2a5\a5ade1>This is the second time I have gone to the dr. for nothing, and I canassure myself that it won't be the last!:)I posted photos under the L album, with photos of him taken today withand without his band on.I have a friend whose 3 month old does have some brachycephaly, doesthat tend to "work itself out" easier than plagiocephaly? She had topoint it out to her dr. and of course I noticed it immediately... Sheis already working on repositioning techniques.Thanks all!> > >> > > > I posted two photos in the L Babies Plagio album, under Lachlan> > > > correct> > > > and Lachlan how its sitting.> > >> >>