Re: mucus in stool die-off? or inflammation -Patti

[Guest guest]

Hi Patti,

I need your advice over quite a few things.

Over this past week starting on Saturday

Sebastian's main meals were:

for breakfast lunch and dinner: chicken broth / carrots or spinach/green beans

/chicken / boiled beef/lamb/butternut

as snacks:

boiled grapes/ banana/almond butter/boiled mango/boiled pear/apple/peach

Basically I redid the intro over the weekend and have cont. with the chicken

broth/chicken and easy to digest veggies for the past few days.

Since Tuesday He has been ill (on Tuesday night he had a slight temperature). He

has a gland/ tonsil that previously already would swell up and go down,

sometimes within half an hour). It's not easy to get a diagnosis on what is

swollen whether tonsil or lymph gland or other gland as it up until now was only

ever swollen for a very short period of time maximum twenty minutes to half an

hour so by the time I get him to the doctor they could only guess what was

swollen.

But this time round it has really been very swollen and I think it has something

to do with the mucus in his stool and his temperature.

Since Tuesday he was very thirsty, and only wanted the boiled fruit to eat and

had no appetite for the chicken and veggies.

He has a well formed stool nice brown colour, slight undigested bits still no

bad odour the last few days. But really a lot of mucus the stool is coated in

mucus and there are separate blobs of mucus.

I must mention Sebastian is non-verbal and severely handicapped so trying to

understand what's going on is difficult.

I was reading through BTVC and find Elaine's ref to inflammation (tenth

anniversary edition-2004)

She explains how " bacterial growth in the small intestine appear to detroy

enzymes.... preventing carbohydrate digestion..........It is at this point that

excessive mucus production may be triggered as a self defense mechanism whereby

the intestinal tract attempts to lubricate itself against the mechanical and

chemical injury caused by microbial toxins, acids and the presence of

incompletely digested and unabsorbed carbohydrates.

What I would like to know is whether the mucus in Sebastian's stool is related

to inflammation or whether it is related to die-off. How can I tell ???

Elaine goes on to say As the microbial population decreases due to lack of food,

its harmful by-products also decrease , freeing the intestinal surface of

injurious substances. No longer needing protection the mucus producing cells

stop producing excessive mucus, and carbohydrate digestion is improved.

Sebastian started on this diet about six months ago. Why would he still have

mucus related to die off in his stool now.

If according to what is written above the bad bacteria stop growing, because

they are being deprived of their usual source of food - the mucus producing

cells stop producing mucus because the intestinal lining is no longer being

injured, why would it take six months to show.

Or could it take this long to finally show effects.

I am slightly confused as to what to think right now?

Any comments or suggestions, please

Tina

Re: problems with bm and thrush -Patti

Tina,

Look for a nicely formed, " normal " looking stool. You are probably still going

to see " some " undigested fiber.... depending on what he's eaten. That's okay.

Stay with easy-to-digest foods until it's clear to you that there's been a big

improvement in stool consistancy, or in the other symptoms you started this diet

for.

Then, when you add in a food that's a bit harder to digest, just add a SMALL

amount of it..... only ONE new food at a time.... and always wait a few days and

watch for any changes.

Please don't worry too much about the " Stages " chart. It's meant to be a

helpful guide, not a rigid set of rules.

Patti

[Guest guest]

HI,

I just wanted to say that I and both my children have had swollen

tonsils/glands and excess mucus in our stools and urine when we have had yeast

overgrowth issues. Hope this helps!

Re: problems with bm and thrush -Patti

Tina,

Look for a nicely formed, " normal " looking stool. You are probably still going

to see " some " undigested fiber.... depending on what he's eaten. That's okay.

Stay with easy-to-digest foods until it's clear to you that there's been a big

improvement in stool consistancy, or in the other symptoms you started this diet

for.

Then, when you add in a food that's a bit harder to digest, just add a SMALL

amount of it..... only ONE new food at a time.... and always wait a few days and

watch for any changes.

Please don't worry too much about the " Stages " chart. It's meant to be a

helpful guide, not a rigid set of rules.

Patti

[Guest guest]

Tina,

If I'm remembering right, you were feeding him some advanced foods, and have now

pulled back to all cooked and easier-to-digest foods. Just last week you told me

that you were seeing green stools, and some others with little hard pellets, and

some with very bad odor.

Now you have a nicely formed, normal brown colored, non-odorous stool.... that

seems like an improvement, despite the mucous. What it shows me is that you

probably triggered new die-off when you pulled out the more advanced foods. I

didn't save all the messages, so am not entirely sure what other changes you

made.

I know you said you had some acidophilus on order.... so I'm assuming you still

have not started that and are also not feeding him yogurt yet.

I honestly DO think it's likely he's having die-off and a bit of a flare at this

point, due to the changes you made..... and that it's likely the mucous you're

seeing is from that as well. We DO hear of kids having new rounds of die-off

every few months, for a while.... even if they've been completely 100% strictly

on SCD. That doesn't happen for everyone, but it's not uncommon. Since you just

re-did the Intro Diet, I think it's even more likely that a new round of die-off

was triggered. You can't just consider that he's been " on SCD for six months " ,

and think that he *should* be past all of this..... you've had some bumps in

the road along the way, or you wouldn't have felt the need to re-start with

Intro. Now, I really think you may see him progress to the next level of

healing.... very soon.

We do sometimes hear of kids that run fever with die-off. However, we don't

usually see reports of really swollen tonsils/lymph glands. That may just be the

way your son's body responds to any toxins or stress on his system.... but I

really don't know. I feel uncomfortable chalking that up to " just die-off " ,

because it is pretty unusual in terms of what we usually see on this list. If

you feel he may be ill.... and that it's not related to the diet.... you should

have him seen by the doctor.

I will be anxious to see what happens as you add in the acidophilus, since he

should have been getting that all along to help take up space in the gut and

help keep yeast down. I'm really very encouraged about the nicely formed BM

..... and the color and lack of bad odor.

I do know, however that lots of mucous being passed can be due to certain

intestinal infections... so we can't just blythely tell you not to worry, that

it's very " normal " . I think it's not *unusual* when die-off is going on.... but

if so, it should be quite temporary.

If he's still running fever and having lots of this mucous, along with the

swollen gland in his throat/neck, you need to have him checked by the doctor.

Do try epsom salts baths, if you're not already doing that. And make up some of

the Electrolyte Drink from Elaine's website.... have him take sips of that....

and sips of soup broth.

I understand the dilemma of not knowing what's going on. My 10-yr-old is

non-verbal and very low functioning, cognitively, too.... so I'm always wishing

I were psychic.

Patti

Re: mucus in stool die-off? or inflammation -Patti

Hi Patti,

I need your advice over quite a few things.

Over this past week starting on Saturday

Sebastian's main meals were:

for breakfast lunch and dinner: chicken broth / carrots or spinach/green beans

/chicken / boiled beef/lamb/butternut

as snacks:

boiled grapes/ banana/almond butter/boiled mango/boiled pear/apple/peach

Basically I redid the intro over the weekend and have cont. with the chicken

broth/chicken and easy to digest veggies for the past few days.

Since Tuesday He has been ill (on Tuesday night he had a slight temperature).

He has a gland/ tonsil that previously already would swell up and go down,

sometimes within half an hour). It's not easy to get a diagnosis on what is

swollen whether tonsil or lymph gland or other gland as it up until now was only

ever swollen for a very short period of time maximum twenty minutes to half an

hour so by the time I get him to the doctor they could only guess what was

swollen.

But this time round it has really been very swollen and I think it has

something to do with the mucus in his stool and his temperature.

Since Tuesday he was very thirsty, and only wanted the boiled fruit to eat and

had no appetite for the chicken and veggies.

He has a well formed stool nice brown colour, slight undigested bits still no

bad odour the last few days. But really a lot of mucus the stool is coated in

mucus and there are separate blobs of mucus.

I must mention Sebastian is non-verbal and severely handicapped so trying to

understand what's going on is difficult.

I was reading through BTVC and find Elaine's ref to inflammation (tenth

anniversary edition-2004)

She explains how " bacterial growth in the small intestine appear to detroy

enzymes.... preventing carbohydrate digestion..........It is at this point that

excessive mucus production may be triggered as a self defense mechanism whereby

the intestinal tract attempts to lubricate itself against the mechanical and

chemical injury caused by microbial toxins, acids and the presence of

incompletely digested and unabsorbed carbohydrates.

What I would like to know is whether the mucus in Sebastian's stool is related

to inflammation or whether it is related to die-off. How can I tell ???

Elaine goes on to say As the microbial population decreases due to lack of

food, its harmful by-products also decrease , freeing the intestinal surface of

injurious substances. No longer needing protection the mucus producing cells

stop producing excessive mucus, and carbohydrate digestion is improved.

Sebastian started on this diet about six months ago. Why would he still have

mucus related to die off in his stool now.

If according to what is written above the bad bacteria stop growing, because

they are being deprived of their usual source of food - the mucus producing

cells stop producing mucus because the intestinal lining is no longer being

injured, why would it take six months to show.

Or could it take this long to finally show effects.

I am slightly confused as to what to think right now?

Any comments or suggestions, please

Tina

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[Guest guest]

Dear Patti,

I just went back in my books to check how Sebastian's bm's have been since

starting SCD.

And what I see is that I started officially on the 5-11-06 so I've only been

doing SCD for 4 months now - I think I thought I started in September because

thats when I started reading about it. I should have another brain!!.

If I wouldn't write everything down I would forget half.

So what I've seen is that in the first two months the colour changed from green

to brown and sort of went back and forth and sometimes there would be yellow

specks and lighter almost white specks.

As for mucous after the first three weeks only for two days and then again aft

the end of November on the 30th a bit of mucous. But I almost feel really silly

to admit it didn't sink in that Sebastian could not have any juices even though

they were organic.

So I don't think I can say I have been doing the diet right.

I don't understand myself I'm trying so hard and yet I make such huge mistakes.

So I can say that only now has it dawned on me that I have to adhere 100%. I'm

usually so meticulous about everything but I never really thought much about the

juice and the unboiled fruit.

I'ts taken the last two weeks to really sink in after I've read a lot of the

posts.

So I think this mucous might really be the real first die-off.

Sebastian is well his gland came down overnight and his temp as well his mucous

has cleared as well.

The problem with Sebastian is he has so many other metabolic disturbances as

well, and I'm trying to read about as much as i can and some where along the way

I should have slowed down and read more closely.

The acidophilus has been ordered and will still take two/three weeks to get

here. The yoghurt maker has also been ordered and will also get here soon.

I will try epsom salt baths

I am giving Sebastian chicken soup broth in his bottle so he has separate to his

meals about 350 ml per day, soup broth, which I think he likes.

Thanks Patti,

for all your patience,

Tina

----- Original Message -----

From: Patti

If I'm remembering right, you were feeding him some advanced foods, and have

now pulled back to all cooked and easier-to-digest foods. Just last week you

told me that you were seeing green stools, and some others with little hard

pellets, and some with very bad odor.

Now you have a nicely formed, normal brown colored, non-odorous stool.... that

seems like an improvement, despite the mucous. What it shows me is that you

probably triggered new die-off when you pulled out the more advanced foods. I

didn't save all the messages, so am not entirely sure what other changes you

made.

I know you said you had some acidophilus on order.... so I'm assuming you

still have not started that and are also not feeding him yogurt yet.

I honestly DO think it's likely he's having die-off and a bit of a flare at

this point, due to the changes you made..... and that it's likely the mucous

you're seeing is from that as well. We DO hear of kids having new rounds of

die-off every few months, for a while.... even if they've been completely 100%

strictly on SCD.

<<remainder of original post clipped for length by moderator>>

[Guest guest]

Tina,

OK, that's good to know... that you only actually started on the 5th of

November. And yes, making some mistakes along the way leads to prolonging

really " getting down to business " . You're getting it now.

I'm so glad to hear that he is better today. Keep the broth flowing... that's

wonderfully healing for him.

Keep up the great work. I will be looking forward to your updates.

Patti

Re: mucus in stool die-off? or inflammation -Patti

Dear Patti,

I just went back in my books to check how Sebastian's bm's have been since

starting SCD.

And what I see is that I started officially on the 5-11-06 so I've only been

doing SCD for 4 months now - I think I thought I started in September because

thats when I started reading about it. I should have another brain!!.

If I wouldn't write everything down I would forget half.

So what I've seen is that in the first two months the colour changed from

green to brown and sort of went back and forth and sometimes there would be

yellow specks and lighter almost white specks.

As for mucous after the first three weeks only for two days and then again aft

the end of November on the 30th a bit of mucous. But I almost feel really silly

to admit it didn't sink in that Sebastian could not have any juices even though

they were organic.

So I don't think I can say I have been doing the diet right.

I don't understand myself I'm trying so hard and yet I make such huge

mistakes.

So I can say that only now has it dawned on me that I have to adhere 100%. I'm

usually so meticulous about everything but I never really thought much about the

juice and the unboiled fruit.

I'ts taken the last two weeks to really sink in after I've read a lot of the

posts.

So I think this mucous might really be the real first die-off.

Sebastian is well his gland came down overnight and his temp as well his

mucous has cleared as well.

The problem with Sebastian is he has so many other metabolic disturbances as

well, and I'm trying to read about as much as i can and some where along the way

I should have slowed down and read more closely.

The acidophilus has been ordered and will still take two/three weeks to get

here. The yoghurt maker has also been ordered and will also get here soon.

I will try epsom salt baths

I am giving Sebastian chicken soup broth in his bottle so he has separate to

his meals about 350 ml per day, soup broth, which I think he likes.

Thanks Patti,

for all your patience,

Tina

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[Guest guest]

Hi Patti,

Sebastian has a terrible rash on his bottom for the last two days mucous in his

bm this moning again (just a little)and I notice it seems like there is a white

coating over the rash which I think is some sort of fluid leaking from his anus.

He still wears nappies/diapers.

My instinct tells me this is candida. Am I right. He previously always had

whitish discharge from his bottom that would just collect around his anus as

something pasty white and would have an OFF- smell.

I realise I should have started acidophilus earlier, but I have'nt.

Patti, I was reading your post to Sylvia about antifungals, coconut oil and

yoghurt. As you know I;m still waiting for the acidophilus and yoghurt maker.

But could I start with coconut oil? How much should I start with , Sebastian

weighs only13kg and is 5 yo. What about rotating with another anti-fungal.

What do you suggest.??

Thanks for all your support

Tina

Re: mucus in stool die-off? or inflammation -Patti

Tina,

OK, that's good to know... that you only actually started on the 5th of

November. And yes, making some mistakes along the way leads to prolonging really

" getting down to business " . You're getting it now.

I'm so glad to hear that he is better today. Keep the broth flowing... that's

wonderfully healing for him.

Keep up the great work. I will be looking forward to your updates.

Patti

[Guest guest]

Hi Tina,

You wrote:

<<My instinct tells me this is candida. Am I right.>>

I honestly don't feel like I can tell you for sure what this is. I am inclined

to agree with your instincts, but I just don't know.

<<Patti, I was reading your post to Sylvia about antifungals, coconut oil and

yoghurt. As you know I;m still waiting for the acidophilus and yoghurt maker.

But could I start with coconut oil? How much should I start with >>

Yes, I think you could start coconut oil. I think of it more as a food, that

just happens to have some antifungal properties. I personally don't think you

need to rotate it out, as I think you do with GSE or Oil of Oregano, etc.

Use only VIRGIN or EXTRA VIRGIN coconut oil (www.tropicaltraditions.com has

one), and start with a small amount... maybe 1/4 teaspoon a day. Increase as

tolerated... gradually, up to maybe one teaspoon per day. You can melt it over

the top of other foods, sort of like butter. It melts at around 76 degrees F

(not sure what that is in C).

Or you could make coconut milk with unsweetened, dried, shredded coconut...

according to the directions on www.pecanbread.com .

Patti

Re: mucus in stool die-off? or inflammation -Patti

Hi Patti,

Sebastian has a terrible rash on his bottom for the last two days mucous in

his bm this moning again (just a little)and I notice it seems like there is a

white coating over the rash which I think is some sort of fluid leaking from his

anus. He still wears nappies/diapers.

My instinct tells me this is candida. Am I right. He previously always had

whitish discharge from his bottom that would just collect around his anus as

something pasty white and would have an OFF- smell.

I realise I should have started acidophilus earlier, but I have'nt.

Patti, I was reading your post to Sylvia about antifungals, coconut oil and

yoghurt. As you know I;m still waiting for the acidophilus and yoghurt maker.

But could I start with coconut oil? How much should I start with , Sebastian

weighs only13kg and is 5 yo. What about rotating with another anti-fungal.

What do you suggest.??

Thanks for all your support

Tina

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