Guest guest Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 I AGREE WITH PATTI!!! I think it's almost a waste of money (and nerves) to give suppliments too soon. There is little chance that they are being absorbed anyway through swollen and inflamed tissue. I think this is one of the reasons MB12 is so powerful, because it isn't eaten and can be given to a sick kid while the belly is healing. Patti wrote: , I think it's highly possible that everything you're seeing can be attributed to die-off. You just have to realise that die-off can go on for WEEKS.... off and on. Some kids have a much easier time, but this is not unusual. I would pull out any supplements you've started recently..... wait at least a week or so and re-start ONE of them at a time..... waiting at least one week in between starting anything new (no new foods at the same time you add back a supplement). I really wish most families would start SCD without supps..... get going really well..... THEN add them in. It's hard to get past that perspective of " they need the nutrients " . Yes, I realise they need them.... but I've just seen this so many times... that the supps (even legal ones) can interfere with getting the diet going well. If the gut is a mess, many of the supplemental nutrients are just going right through them anyway. Take a deep breath and realise that this may not be because of anything you are doing, or failing to do. It may just be part of the process. Keep up getting some broth into him.... mix it with juice if he won't drink it any other way. And if he will take it, get some of the Electrolyte Drink into him. Patti BMs Worse than ever Hello Again! Benito's BM are worse than ever....they smell like ammonia and are very gritty and liquid...like a gritty paste. I listed his foods under my post enzymes. Chicken, bison, pear sauce, pear juice (homemade), bananas, butternut squash, acorn squash, green beans (string style), eggs scrambled or in squash buttons, water. Supps....1/4 capsule Prozyme by GI ProHealth, 1/2 capsule Kirkman's Everyday multivitamin w/o A & D, 1 capsule CLO Kirkman's, I took him off of the goat yogurt yesterday. 2 capsules SCDopholis. I am at a loss....I thought that it would improve but his bowels are worse than they have ever been. I don't know what I am doing wrong. I have added the multi vitamin and CLO and the 1/4 capsule of Prozyme and taken away the goat yogurt. There seems to be little difference. Except for the grittiness. He has never had that until this last week. I don't understand why it hasn't ever shown up before. The ammonia smell has never been there either. Before SCD his poops were always like peanutbutter and yellowish like mustard....but they were consistently like that. Now I never know what to expect day to day. Please any help or suggestions? Hinojosa 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 YES. First of all, listen to Patti. You haven't done anything wrong and Benito is not worst. In order for him to get better, his belly must kill off the yeast and let go of the mucus still clinging to his intestines. This is all a very good sign, so HANG IN THERE. If you go here and register (they don't send you spam, don't worry), you can watch the DAN! videos. If you click on the one to the left (the boy and girl), you can bring up Judy Gorman's wonderful experience about her son . This is totally worth the effort to see. She goes into detail about starting SCD. http://www.danwebcast.com/ Hinojosa wrote: Hello Again! Benito's BM are worse than ever....they smell like ammonia and are very gritty and liquid...like a gritty paste. I listed his foods under my post enzymes. Chicken, bison, pear sauce, pear juice (homemade), bananas, butternut squash, acorn squash, green beans (string style), eggs scrambled or in squash buttons, water. Supps....1/4 capsule Prozyme by GI ProHealth, 1/2 capsule Kirkman's Everyday multivitamin w/o A & D, 1 capsule CLO Kirkman's, I took him off of the goat yogurt yesterday. 2 capsules SCDopholis. I am at a loss....I thought that it would improve but his bowels are worse than they have ever been. I don't know what I am doing wrong. I have added the multi vitamin and CLO and the 1/4 capsule of Prozyme and taken away the goat yogurt. There seems to be little difference. Except for the grittiness. He has never had that until this last week. I don't understand why it hasn't ever shown up before. The ammonia smell has never been there either. Before SCD his poops were always like peanutbutter and yellowish like mustard....but they were consistently like that. Now I never know what to expect day to day. Please any help or suggestions? Hinojosa 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 , I think it's highly possible that everything you're seeing can be attributed to die-off. You just have to realise that die-off can go on for WEEKS.... off and on. Some kids have a much easier time, but this is not unusual. I would pull out any supplements you've started recently..... wait at least a week or so and re-start ONE of them at a time..... waiting at least one week in between starting anything new (no new foods at the same time you add back a supplement). I really wish most families would start SCD without supps..... get going really well..... THEN add them in. It's hard to get past that perspective of " they need the nutrients " . Yes, I realise they need them.... but I've just seen this so many times... that the supps (even legal ones) can interfere with getting the diet going well. If the gut is a mess, many of the supplemental nutrients are just going right through them anyway. Take a deep breath and realise that this may not be because of anything you are doing, or failing to do. It may just be part of the process. Keep up getting some broth into him.... mix it with juice if he won't drink it any other way. And if he will take it, get some of the Electrolyte Drink into him. Patti BMs Worse than ever Hello Again! Benito's BM are worse than ever....they smell like ammonia and are very gritty and liquid...like a gritty paste. I listed his foods under my post enzymes. Chicken, bison, pear sauce, pear juice (homemade), bananas, butternut squash, acorn squash, green beans (string style), eggs scrambled or in squash buttons, water. Supps....1/4 capsule Prozyme by GI ProHealth, 1/2 capsule Kirkman's Everyday multivitamin w/o A & D, 1 capsule CLO Kirkman's, I took him off of the goat yogurt yesterday. 2 capsules SCDopholis. I am at a loss....I thought that it would improve but his bowels are worse than they have ever been. I don't know what I am doing wrong. I have added the multi vitamin and CLO and the 1/4 capsule of Prozyme and taken away the goat yogurt. There seems to be little difference. Except for the grittiness. He has never had that until this last week. I don't understand why it hasn't ever shown up before. The ammonia smell has never been there either. Before SCD his poops were always like peanutbutter and yellowish like mustard....but they were consistently like that. Now I never know what to expect day to day. Please any help or suggestions? Hinojosa 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 If he is celiac, enzymes can really mess up his system. I would pull the enzymes and see if that takes care of it. I also would not be doing any kind of bean at the beginning. A negative celiac test doesn't necessarily mean absence of celiac, it can mean that the test just didn't catch it. Kind regards, KimS > > Hello Again! > > Benito's BM are worse than ever....they smell like ammonia and are very gritty and liquid...like a gritty paste. > > I listed his foods under my post enzymes. > > Chicken, bison, pear sauce, pear juice (homemade), bananas, butternut squash, acorn squash, green beans (string style), eggs scrambled or in squash buttons, water. > > Supps....1/4 capsule Prozyme by GI ProHealth, 1/2 capsule Kirkman's Everyday multivitamin w/o A & D, 1 capsule CLO Kirkman's, I took him off of the goat yogurt yesterday. 2 capsules SCDopholis. > > I am at a loss....I thought that it would improve but his bowels are worse than they have ever been. I don't know what I am doing wrong. I have added the multi vitamin and CLO and the 1/4 capsule of Prozyme and taken away the goat yogurt. There seems to be little difference. Except for the grittiness. He has never had that until this last week. I don't understand why it hasn't ever shown up before. The ammonia smell has never been there either. Before SCD his poops were always like peanutbutter and yellowish like mustard....but they were consistently like that. Now I never know what to expect day to day. > > Please any help or suggestions? > > Hinojosa > 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 He has never been tested for celiac but he did show severe sensitivity to gluten on his ALCAT blood test for food intolerances and sensitivities. I have an appt with a GI Doc on 4-2-07. I will have him tested then. He is a large child always has been...he was a chubby baby and now he is 3 .5 years old and 44 Lbs and 41 " tall. Very muscular and strong...so I have not considered celiac disease. I know he has a hard time with food and bowel movements and pain and I can count on 1 hand how many formed stools he has had in his life. He reacts to the pain by being aggressive and hyper. I am not sure if he is ASD or has been in pain all of his little life. Can a child this size have celiac disease. His father and his father's family have all had undiagnosed " stomach problems " . Thanks Hinojosa 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 [Norton AntiSpam] Re: BMs Worse than ever If he is celiac, enzymes can really mess up his system. I would pull the enzymes and see if that takes care of it. I also would not be doing any kind of bean at the beginning. A negative celiac test doesn't necessarily mean absence of celiac, it can mean that the test just didn't catch it. Kind regards, KimS > > Hello Again! > > Benito's BM are worse than ever....they smell like ammonia and are very gritty and liquid...like a gritty paste. > > I listed his foods under my post enzymes. > > Chicken, bison, pear sauce, pear juice (homemade), bananas, butternut squash, acorn squash, green beans (string style), eggs scrambled or in squash buttons, water. > > Supps....1/4 capsule Prozyme by GI ProHealth, 1/2 capsule Kirkman's Everyday multivitamin w/o A & D, 1 capsule CLO Kirkman's, I took him off of the goat yogurt yesterday. 2 capsules SCDopholis. > > I am at a loss....I thought that it would improve but his bowels are worse than they have ever been. I don't know what I am doing wrong. I have added the multi vitamin and CLO and the 1/4 capsule of Prozyme and taken away the goat yogurt. There seems to be little difference. Except for the grittiness. He has never had that until this last week. I don't understand why it hasn't ever shown up before. The ammonia smell has never been there either. Before SCD his poops were always like peanutbutter and yellowish like mustard....but they were consistently like that. Now I never know what to expect day to day. > > Please any help or suggestions? > > Hinojosa > 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 Where did you hear this? I have never heard of this before. Elaine said that Huston enzymes were SCD legal. We've used them for quite a while and have no problem. -- In pecanbread , " Kim " wrote: > > If he is celiac, enzymes can really mess up his system. > > I would pull the enzymes and see if that takes care of it. I also > would not be doing any kind of bean at the beginning. > > A negative celiac test doesn't necessarily mean absence of celiac, it > can mean that the test just didn't catch it. > > Kind regards, > KimS > > > > > > Hello Again! > > > > Benito's BM are worse than ever....they smell like ammonia and are > very gritty and liquid...like a gritty paste. > > > > I listed his foods under my post enzymes. > > > > Chicken, bison, pear sauce, pear juice (homemade), bananas, > butternut squash, acorn squash, green beans (string style), eggs > scrambled or in squash buttons, water. > > > > Supps....1/4 capsule Prozyme by GI ProHealth, 1/2 capsule Kirkman's > Everyday multivitamin w/o A & D, 1 capsule CLO Kirkman's, I took him > off of the goat yogurt yesterday. 2 capsules SCDopholis. > > > > I am at a loss....I thought that it would improve but his bowels are > worse than they have ever been. I don't know what I am doing wrong. > I have added the multi vitamin and CLO and the 1/4 capsule of Prozyme > and taken away the goat yogurt. There seems to be little difference. > Except for the grittiness. He has never had that until this last > week. I don't understand why it hasn't ever shown up before. The > ammonia smell has never been there either. Before SCD his poops were > always like peanutbutter and yellowish like mustard....but they were > consistently like that. Now I never know what to expect day to day. > > > > Please any help or suggestions? > > > > Hinojosa > > 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 One more thought: at 2 1/2 weeks SCD you are right at the very beginning. Don't stress so much, just continue. Hinojosa wrote: Hello Again! Benito's BM are worse than ever....they smell like ammonia and are very gritty and liquid...like a gritty paste. I listed his foods under my post enzymes. Chicken, bison, pear sauce, pear juice (homemade), bananas, butternut squash, acorn squash, green beans (string style), eggs scrambled or in squash buttons, water. Supps....1/4 capsule Prozyme by GI ProHealth, 1/2 capsule Kirkman's Everyday multivitamin w/o A & D, 1 capsule CLO Kirkman's, I took him off of the goat yogurt yesterday. 2 capsules SCDopholis. I am at a loss....I thought that it would improve but his bowels are worse than they have ever been. I don't know what I am doing wrong. I have added the multi vitamin and CLO and the 1/4 capsule of Prozyme and taken away the goat yogurt. There seems to be little difference. Except for the grittiness. He has never had that until this last week. I don't understand why it hasn't ever shown up before. The ammonia smell has never been there either. Before SCD his poops were always like peanutbutter and yellowish like mustard....but they were consistently like that. Now I never know what to expect day to day. Please any help or suggestions? Hinojosa 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 Celiac knows no boundaries. Size doesn't matter. You have to remember too, that the definition of celiac disease is a 'boardroom decision' and can be altered to either include or disclude people at any time. That is why, if you have a positive test - great!... But if you have a negative test, you still need to try the diet. Also, it is beginning to be acknowledged that cd has only neurological implications for some people that cannot be 'seen' in the intestine. SCD works incredibly well for many celiacs because it removes most causes of intestinal 'inflammation' (whether they are the Marsh lesions recognized in CD or not). Celiac disease has had some experimental history that either bore out different results or experimental history that other afflictions have not yet had. (So this is not to say that this applies only to celiacs... but that it is something to definitely consider, for celiacs - and possibly others). In Elaine's book, she basically says not to ingest things that adversely affect your gut... even if it's something in her book. As a result when some people do SCD, they may also need to avoid nuts or nightshades or the lily family, etc. Until healing takes place and then they can start adding back in. This type of scenario also exists for enzymes. If they don't seem to be working, cut them out and see if you get better. If you do, don't add them back in until much later. This is a good rule for pretty much anything (except a few things - in my opinion - that seem to 'hold on' to their effects on some people like gluten, casein, etc.) All reading takes some critical thinking on the part of the reader. Some enzymes will claim to heal celiac disease and allow safe ingestion of gluten. Do you want to take the risk of believing it and then finding out that they were wrong and you've suffered damage? Maybe some people do. I personally don't and will keep to the diet simply because I KNOW that the diet won't hurt me. That said, here is some enzyme info. for people who are interested in a big read (and a 'clip' for those who just want to see what it says about specific enzyme choice): http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionceliac.htm ....The enzymes studied, however, have limitations as they are irreversibly inactivated by pepsin and acidic pH, both present in the stomach. As a consequence, these enzymes will fail to degrade gluten before it reaches the small intestine, the site where gluten induces inflammatory T cell responses that lead to celiac disease... ....It was found, in general, people with celiac reacted worse when taking gluten + Peptizyde than when consuming small amounts of gluten with no enzymes. Celiac is an autoimmune disease/condition with a genetic basis. There are certain sequences of peptides which cause a reaction in the small intestine of individuals with celiac disease. The peptides can be as small as 12 amino acids long (that's pretty small). These peptides are different than the peptides that get absorbed into the bloodstream and cause the opiate problem which are called gliadiomorphs. When the peptides get to the small intestine, the celiac's body registers these peptides as The Enemy. A non-celiac's body would just see the peptide as from gluten and let it pass. Once the celiac's body detects The Enemy, certain antigens are produced which increase T-cell production in the small intestine vill...(My note: This is very important for children who are affected by things like gluten contaminated desks, etc.) Quote: There is a certain structure in the gliadin that the small intestine sees as toxic in celiac individuals. The protease enzymes are not breaking this down in a way so that it does not cause a reaction in celiacs. So, in fact, taking just a protease such as Peptizyde may be just making more of these little peptides (or whatever) available to the small intestine, and perhaps increasing the number of chances to provoke a reaction. Quote: This is a different situation from the peptide/opiate problem which is caused by large, insufficiently broken down molecules and leaky gut. Those peptides have a certain structure that attaches to specific receptors in the brain. Celiac reactions are triggered by different tiny peptides which attach to receptors in the small intestine. Only celiacs will have intestines that react in this way. HTH KimS - celiac family SCD 2003-2004 (still using it for many meals) > > Where did you hear this? I have never heard of this before. Elaine > said that Huston enzymes were SCD legal. We've used them for quite a > while and have no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 Do children with Celiac Disease go through " die off " too? Hinojosa 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 [Norton AntiSpam] Re: BMs Worse than ever Celiac knows no boundaries. Size doesn't matter. You have to remember too, that the definition of celiac disease is a 'boardroom decision' and can be altered to either include or disclude people at any time. That is why, if you have a positive test - great!... But if you have a negative test, you still need to try the diet. Also, it is beginning to be acknowledged that cd has only neurological implications for some people that cannot be 'seen' in the intestine. SCD works incredibly well for many celiacs because it removes most causes of intestinal 'inflammation' (whether they are the Marsh lesions recognized in CD or not). Celiac disease has had some experimental history that either bore out different results or experimental history that other afflictions have not yet had. (So this is not to say that this applies only to celiacs... but that it is something to definitely consider, for celiacs - and possibly others). In Elaine's book, she basically says not to ingest things that adversely affect your gut... even if it's something in her book. As a result when some people do SCD, they may also need to avoid nuts or nightshades or the lily family, etc. Until healing takes place and then they can start adding back in. This type of scenario also exists for enzymes. If they don't seem to be working, cut them out and see if you get better. If you do, don't add them back in until much later. This is a good rule for pretty much anything (except a few things - in my opinion - that seem to 'hold on' to their effects on some people like gluten, casein, etc.) All reading takes some critical thinking on the part of the reader. Some enzymes will claim to heal celiac disease and allow safe ingestion of gluten. Do you want to take the risk of believing it and then finding out that they were wrong and you've suffered damage? Maybe some people do. I personally don't and will keep to the diet simply because I KNOW that the diet won't hurt me. That said, here is some enzyme info. for people who are interested in a big read (and a 'clip' for those who just want to see what it says about specific enzyme choice): http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionceliac.htm ...The enzymes studied, however, have limitations as they are irreversibly inactivated by pepsin and acidic pH, both present in the stomach. As a consequence, these enzymes will fail to degrade gluten before it reaches the small intestine, the site where gluten induces inflammatory T cell responses that lead to celiac disease... ...It was found, in general, people with celiac reacted worse when taking gluten + Peptizyde than when consuming small amounts of gluten with no enzymes. Celiac is an autoimmune disease/condition with a genetic basis. There are certain sequences of peptides which cause a reaction in the small intestine of individuals with celiac disease. The peptides can be as small as 12 amino acids long (that's pretty small). These peptides are different than the peptides that get absorbed into the bloodstream and cause the opiate problem which are called gliadiomorphs. When the peptides get to the small intestine, the celiac's body registers these peptides as The Enemy. A non-celiac's body would just see the peptide as from gluten and let it pass. Once the celiac's body detects The Enemy, certain antigens are produced which increase T-cell production in the small intestine vill...(My note: This is very important for children who are affected by things like gluten contaminated desks, etc.) Quote: There is a certain structure in the gliadin that the small intestine sees as toxic in celiac individuals. The protease enzymes are not breaking this down in a way so that it does not cause a reaction in celiacs. So, in fact, taking just a protease such as Peptizyde may be just making more of these little peptides (or whatever) available to the small intestine, and perhaps increasing the number of chances to provoke a reaction. Quote: This is a different situation from the peptide/opiate problem which is caused by large, insufficiently broken down molecules and leaky gut. Those peptides have a certain structure that attaches to specific receptors in the brain. Celiac reactions are triggered by different tiny peptides which attach to receptors in the small intestine. Only celiacs will have intestines that react in this way. HTH KimS - celiac family SCD 2003-2004 (still using it for many meals) > > Where did you hear this? I have never heard of this before. Elaine > said that Huston enzymes were SCD legal. We've used them for quite a > while and have no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 A general answer is yes. But there is always a chapter of information about why some might not. My son did not even though he is a high reactor. (Not a confirmed celiac but a high gluten reactor and does stop growing if he is contaminated - even just daily contact with chicks eating gluten chick feed is enough to stop growth - so it doesn't have to be 'ingested' persay). I believe he did not have die off because he was so 'food limited' by the time we realized why he was failing to thrive... ate lots of apples, grapes and raisins... refused most complex sugars (and still does) like potatoes, etc. Whereas others might be more attracted to complex sugars that lead to all the bloating. The other idea would be that the food reactions outweighed the behaviours from die-off so much that the die-off behaviour was still perceived by us an improvement. KimS - celiac family scd 2003-2004 (still maintain SCD several days per week) > > Do children with Celiac Disease go through " die off " too? > > Hinojosa > 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 The grit may be calcium oxalate or calcium phosphate crystals. The ammonia is made by the body to buffer acid because ammonia is alkaline. I think you are starting to see him trying to eliminate more oxalate crystals and oxalic acid through his GI tract, and yes it can be painful. I'm not self advertising but maybe you want to join my Vitamin K list so you know how to approach this. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/VitaminK/ Hello Again! > > Benito's BM are worse than ever....they smell like ammonia and are very gritty and liquid...like a gritty paste. > > I listed his foods under my post enzymes. > > Chicken, bison, pear sauce, pear juice (homemade), bananas, butternut squash, acorn squash, green beans (string style), eggs scrambled or in squash buttons, water. > > Supps....1/4 capsule Prozyme by GI ProHealth, 1/2 capsule Kirkman's Everyday multivitamin w/o A & D, 1 capsule CLO Kirkman's, I took him off of the goat yogurt yesterday. 2 capsules SCDopholis. > > I am at a loss....I thought that it would improve but his bowels are worse than they have ever been. I don't know what I am doing wrong. I have added the multi vitamin and CLO and the 1/4 capsule of Prozyme and taken away the goat yogurt. There seems to be little difference. Except for the grittiness. He has never had that until this last week. I don't understand why it hasn't ever shown up before. The ammonia smell has never been there either. Before SCD his poops were always like peanutbutter and yellowish like mustard....but they were consistently like that. Now I never know what to expect day to day. > > Please any help or suggestions? > > Hinojosa > 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Thank you for the information...How long can this cleaning out oxalates last? I collected some of his urine in a cup and now am not sure what to do with it. I am wanting to know if oxalate crystals are in his urine. Do I have to put some in-between my fingers and rub to feel the crystals? Oh My....the love we have for our children! Hinojosa 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 [Norton AntiSpam] Re: BMs Worse than ever The grit may be calcium oxalate or calcium phosphate crystals. The ammonia is made by the body to buffer acid because ammonia is alkaline. I think you are starting to see him trying to eliminate more oxalate crystals and oxalic acid through his GI tract, and yes it can be painful. I'm not self advertising but maybe you want to join my Vitamin K list so you know how to approach this. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/VitaminK/ Hello Again! > > Benito's BM are worse than ever....they smell like ammonia and are very gritty and liquid...like a gritty paste. > > I listed his foods under my post enzymes. > > Chicken, bison, pear sauce, pear juice (homemade), bananas, butternut squash, acorn squash, green beans (string style), eggs scrambled or in squash buttons, water. > > Supps....1/4 capsule Prozyme by GI ProHealth, 1/2 capsule Kirkman's Everyday multivitamin w/o A & D, 1 capsule CLO Kirkman's, I took him off of the goat yogurt yesterday. 2 capsules SCDopholis. > > I am at a loss....I thought that it would improve but his bowels are worse than they have ever been. I don't know what I am doing wrong. I have added the multi vitamin and CLO and the 1/4 capsule of Prozyme and taken away the goat yogurt. There seems to be little difference. Except for the grittiness. He has never had that until this last week. I don't understand why it hasn't ever shown up before. The ammonia smell has never been there either. Before SCD his poops were always like peanutbutter and yellowish like mustard....but they were consistently like that. Now I never know what to expect day to day. > > Please any help or suggestions? > > Hinojosa > 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Hello Again, I forgot to ask another question. I thought we had to go through a long protocol to even begin the Vitamin K. Will he be in pain until we can reach the point to even begin the Vitamin K? Hinojosa 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 [Norton AntiSpam] Re: BMs Worse than ever The grit may be calcium oxalate or calcium phosphate crystals. The ammonia is made by the body to buffer acid because ammonia is alkaline. I think you are starting to see him trying to eliminate more oxalate crystals and oxalic acid through his GI tract, and yes it can be painful. I'm not self advertising but maybe you want to join my Vitamin K list so you know how to approach this. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/VitaminK/ Hello Again! > > Benito's BM are worse than ever....they smell like ammonia and are very gritty and liquid...like a gritty paste. > > I listed his foods under my post enzymes. > > Chicken, bison, pear sauce, pear juice (homemade), bananas, butternut squash, acorn squash, green beans (string style), eggs scrambled or in squash buttons, water. > > Supps....1/4 capsule Prozyme by GI ProHealth, 1/2 capsule Kirkman's Everyday multivitamin w/o A & D, 1 capsule CLO Kirkman's, I took him off of the goat yogurt yesterday. 2 capsules SCDopholis. > > I am at a loss....I thought that it would improve but his bowels are worse than they have ever been. I don't know what I am doing wrong. I have added the multi vitamin and CLO and the 1/4 capsule of Prozyme and taken away the goat yogurt. There seems to be little difference. Except for the grittiness. He has never had that until this last week. I don't understand why it hasn't ever shown up before. The ammonia smell has never been there either. Before SCD his poops were always like peanutbutter and yellowish like mustard....but they were consistently like that. Now I never know what to expect day to day. > > Please any help or suggestions? > > Hinojosa > 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Ok, after the urine sat for about 20 minutes...there is a pile of what looks like crystals at the bottom of the cup. There are quite a bit of them. And now that I think about it he has had these things on his groin area for maybe a year now. I thought they were from the disposable diapers he was wearing. Some kind of chemical thing from the diapers absorbing the liquid. But I'm pretty sure this is what they have been. But these don't feel gritty like the poop crystals. They are more soft but hard to wipe off of him. They kind of cling to his skin like the poop crystals but they do not feel like sand. I am sure that this unscientific description might drive you nuts:) I hold a degree in visual arts......so science is not my forte:) Do you think these are oxalate crystals in his urine? Thanks so much for your help Hinojosa 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 [Norton AntiSpam] Re: BMs Worse than ever The grit may be calcium oxalate or calcium phosphate crystals. The ammonia is made by the body to buffer acid because ammonia is alkaline. I think you are starting to see him trying to eliminate more oxalate crystals and oxalic acid through his GI tract, and yes it can be painful. I'm not self advertising but maybe you want to join my Vitamin K list so you know how to approach this. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/VitaminK/ Hello Again! > > Benito's BM are worse than ever....they smell like ammonia and are very gritty and liquid...like a gritty paste. > > I listed his foods under my post enzymes. > > Chicken, bison, pear sauce, pear juice (homemade), bananas, butternut squash, acorn squash, green beans (string style), eggs scrambled or in squash buttons, water. > > Supps....1/4 capsule Prozyme by GI ProHealth, 1/2 capsule Kirkman's Everyday multivitamin w/o A & D, 1 capsule CLO Kirkman's, I took him off of the goat yogurt yesterday. 2 capsules SCDopholis. > > I am at a loss....I thought that it would improve but his bowels are worse than they have ever been. I don't know what I am doing wrong. I have added the multi vitamin and CLO and the 1/4 capsule of Prozyme and taken away the goat yogurt. There seems to be little difference. Except for the grittiness. He has never had that until this last week. I don't understand why it hasn't ever shown up before. The ammonia smell has never been there either. Before SCD his poops were always like peanutbutter and yellowish like mustard....but they were consistently like that. Now I never know what to expect day to day. > > Please any help or suggestions? > > Hinojosa > 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Thanks Patti:) Re: Re: BMs Worse than ever Ok, after the urine sat for about 20 minutes...there is a pile of what looks like crystals at the bottom of the cup. There are quite a bit of them. And now that I think about it he has had these things on his groin area for maybe a year now. I thought they were from the disposable diapers he was wearing. Some kind of chemical thing from the diapers absorbing the liquid. But I'm pretty sure this is what they have been. But these don't feel gritty like the poop crystals. They are more soft but hard to wipe off of him. They kind of cling to his skin like the poop crystals but they do not feel like sand. I am sure that this unscientific description might drive you nuts:) I hold a degree in visual arts......so science is not my forte:) Do you think these are oxalate crystals in his urine? Thanks so much for your help Hinojosa 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 Recent Activity a.. 23New Members Visit Your Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Steph, doesn't always read this list, so she might be delayed in answering. I know she has said you can freeze a urine sample and then thaw it and look at the sediment under a microscope to determine whether it's oxalate crystals or not. There is another type of sediment it could also be..... and I'm not sure what. I'd really urge you to join her K list and ask that question over there.... she's more likely to see it. Patti Re: Re: BMs Worse than ever Ok, after the urine sat for about 20 minutes...there is a pile of what looks like crystals at the bottom of the cup. There are quite a bit of them. And now that I think about it he has had these things on his groin area for maybe a year now. I thought they were from the disposable diapers he was wearing. Some kind of chemical thing from the diapers absorbing the liquid. But I'm pretty sure this is what they have been. But these don't feel gritty like the poop crystals. They are more soft but hard to wipe off of him. They kind of cling to his skin like the poop crystals but they do not feel like sand. I am sure that this unscientific description might drive you nuts:) I hold a degree in visual arts......so science is not my forte:) Do you think these are oxalate crystals in his urine? Thanks so much for your help Hinojosa 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 Recent Activity a.. 23New Members Visit Your Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 I am pretty behind in everything lately! If you are getting that much sediment just from the urine sitting at room temperature, then there is a LOT of it. The sediment could be calcium oxalate, calcium phosphate, or cellular debris - you need a microscope to tell the difference. There is a good picture of calcium oxalate crystals in my Vitamin K paper (which is in the Vitamin K listserve files). Any type of crystal will reflect light in a microscope slide, while cellular debris will not. Also, when my son had lots of crystals in his urine, when I emptied the jar there were some crystals left behind and they felt just like sand. Maybe your pediatrician or DAN doc has a microscope? > > Steph, > > doesn't always read this list, so she might be delayed in answering. I know she has said you can freeze a urine sample and then thaw it and look at the sediment under a microscope to determine whether it's oxalate crystals or not. There is another type of sediment it could also be..... and I'm not sure what. I'd really urge you to join her K list and ask that question over there.... she's more likely to see it. > > Patti > > Re: Re: BMs Worse than ever > > > Ok, after the urine sat for about 20 minutes...there is a pile of what looks like crystals at the bottom of the cup. There are quite a bit of them. And now that I think about it he has had these things on his groin area for maybe a year now. I thought they were from the disposable diapers he was wearing. Some kind of chemical thing from the diapers absorbing the liquid. But I'm pretty sure this is what they have been. But these don't feel gritty like the poop crystals. They are more soft but hard to wipe off of him. They kind of cling to his skin like the poop crystals but they do not feel like sand. I am sure that this unscientific description might drive you nuts:) I hold a degree in visual arts......so science is not my forte:) > > Do you think these are oxalate crystals in his urine? > > Thanks so much for your help > > Hinojosa > 3yr old boy, ASD, Began SCD Feb 14, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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