Re: SCD and ammonia

December 10, 2006

,

I am in a hurry so please correct me if I make mistakes.

The following articles may indicate that microorganisms that grow on

lactose (the probiotics in yogurt and lactic acid bacteria) reduce

ammonia.

These articles also show that ammonia is produced by bacteria. I have

not yet had the time to evaluate if these bacteria are reduced with

SCD or that they need S Boulardii in order to be eradicated.

My suggestions to you is:

Yogurt! Start out very slowly(1/8 of a teaspoon) and gradually

increase the amount.

Wait a month before starting the yogurt.

If yogurt is not tolerated then do probioticas and SBoulardii.

These articles mention Lactulose. Please stay away from Lactulose!! It

is very bad for some folks. I have heard about kids with ASD who get

horrible outcomes with lactulose.

I am eagerly waiting for someone else's feedback on this very important topic.

Mimi

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus & db=pubmed & cmd=R\

etrieve & dopt=abstractplus & list_uids=7381915

1: J Med Microbiol. 1980 May;13(2):177-91. Links

Ammonia production by intestinal bacteria: the effects of lactose,

lactulose and glucose.

Vince AJ,

Burridge SM.

Ammonia production by eight groups of intestinal bacteria was

measured, and the effect on ammonia production of lowered pH and

ambient ammonia concentration was determined. Endogenous ammonia

production from bacterial protoplasm was also examined. To examine the

mechanisms by which fermentable substrates reduce ammonia formation in

a faecal incubation system, the effect of lactose, lactulose or

glucose on ammonia release by pure cultures of intestinal bacteria was

studied. The largest amounts of ammonia were generated by

gram-negative anaerobes, clostridia, enterobacteria, and Bacillus spp.

Gram-positive non-sporing anaerobes, streptococci and micrococci

formed modest amounts, and lactobacilli and yeasts formed very little

ammonia. All groups of bacteria formed less ammonia at pH 5.0 than at

pH 7.0 and production of ammonia was not inhibited when 30 mmol

ammonia/litre was included in the medium. Small amounts of ammonia

were formed due to endogenous metabolism of bacterial cells. Washed

cell suspensions of four isolates of Bacteroides, one clostridial

isolate and two streptococcal isolates formed less ammonia from

alanine, methionine or histidine after growth in the presence of

either lactose or lactulose. In contrast, the Bacteroides isolates

formed more ammonia from aspartate than from either lactose or

lactulose. Also, cultures of gram-negative anaerobes and

enterobacteria, and to a lesser extent clostridia and streptococci,

formed significantly less ammonia in nutrient broth when lactose,

lactulose or glucose was included in the medium. This decrease in

ammonia formation was not due to a fall in pH of the medium. Ammonia

production by gram-positive non-sporing anaerobes was not affected by

carbohydrate fermentation. These results suggest that gram-negative

anaerobic bacteria make a major contribution to ammonia generated from

peptides and amino acids in vivo, and that ammonia may be formed from

bacterial cells in the colon. Fermentation of lactose and lactulose

may repress the formation and inhibit the activity of enzymes

responsible for ammonia release. In the human colon these substrate

effects may decrease the amount of ammonia available to exert a toxic

effect on the host, and thus contribute to the beneficial effects of

lactulose when it is used in the treatment of portosystemic

encephalopathy.

PMID: 7381915 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstra\

ctPlus & list_uids=15533613 & query_hl=3 & itool=pubmed_docsum

1: Med Hypotheses. 2005;64(1):64-8. Links

Effect of antibiotics, prebiotics and probiotics in treatment for

hepatic encephalopathy.

Bongaerts G,

Severijnen R,

Timmerman H.

Department of Medical Microbiology, Radboud University Nijmegen

Medical Centre, P.O. Box 9101, Nl-6500 HB, Nijmegen, The Netherlands.

g.bongaerts@...

In order to reduce ammonia production by urease-positive bacteria

Solga recently hypothesised (S.F. Solga, Probiotics can treat hepatic

encephalopathy, Medical Hypotheses 2003; 61: 307-13), that probiotics

are new therapeutics for hepatic encephalopathy (HE), and that they

may replace antibiotics and lactulose. This influenced our view of the

effect of antibiotics, prebiotics, e.g., lactulose, and probiotics on

intestinal bacteria in the treatment of HE. Intestinal ammonia arises

from aminoacids after bacterial de-amination and not from urea making

urease-positive bacteria irrelevant. Antibiotics are not preferred in

the treatment of HE, since ammonia-producing antibiotic-resistant

bacteria may survive and replace ammonia-producing

antibiotic-susceptible bacteria. Intestinal prebiotics are

carbohydrate-like compounds, such as lactulose and resistant starch,

that beneficially affects host's health in a different manner than

normal food. In the small bowel prebiotics are not absorbed and

digested, but are fermented in the colon by colonic bacteria.

Fermentation of prebiotics yields lactic, acetic and butyric acids, as

well as gas especially hydrogen (H2). The massive H2 volumes cause

rapid intestinal hurry and thus massive amounts of colonic bacteria,

not only urease-positive bacteria, but also deaminating bacteria, are

removed and intestinal uptake of toxic bacterial metabolites, e.g.,

ammonia, reduced. As living non-pathogenic micro-organisms, probiotics

beneficially affect the host's health by fermenting non-absorbed

sugars, especially in the small bowel. Thus, they reduce the substrate

of the other bacteria, and simultaneously they create a surplus of

fermentation products which may affect the non-probiotic flora.

Regarding the fermentation products (lactic acid, ethanol, acetic acid

and CO2) five groups of probiotic micro-organisms are known. It is

argued that probiotic, CO2-producing (facultatively) heterolactic

lactobacilli, i.e., lactobacilli, that produce both lactic acid and

CO2 from sugars, such as glucose, are preferred in the treatment of

HE. Our ideas concur with the practice guidelines regarding HE as

formulated by Blei, Cordoba and the Practice Parameters Committee of

the American College of Gastroenterology, and does not alter the final

conclusion of Solga as regards the beneficial use in future treatment

of HE.

PMID: 15533613 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\

0194670 & dopt=Abstract

ammonia

1: J Dairy Sci. 1999 Mar;82(3):520-6. Links

Effect of applying lactic acid bacteria isolated from forage crops on

fermentation characteristics and aerobic deterioration of silage.

Cai Y,

Benno Y,

Ogawa M,

Kumai S.

Japan Collection of Microorganisms, Institute of Physical and Chemical

Research, Saitama, Japan.

Two selected strains, Lactobacillus casei FG 1 and Lactobacillus

plantarum FG 10 that were isolated from forage crops were used as

additives at 1.0 x 10(5) cfu/g of fresh matter to alfalfa, Italian

ryegrass, and sorghum, and their effect on fermentation

characteristics and aerobic deterioration of silage was studied. The

three silages treated with strains FG 1 or FG 10 were well preserved;

had significantly lower pH values, butyric acid, propionic acid, and

ammonia N concentrations, gas production, and dry matter losses; and

had significantly higher contents of residual water-soluble

carbohydrates and lactic acid than did the respective control silages.

Yeast counts were high in all treated silages and increased rapidly

during aerobic exposure. As a result, treated silages spoiled faster

upon aerobic exposure than did the respective control silages. Most

yeasts isolated from deteriorated silages showed high tolerance to

lactic acid but low tolerance to butyric acid, and they were able to

grow at low pH conditions and assimilate lactic acid. The results

confirmed that L. casei and L. plantarum improved fermentation quality

but did not inhibit the growth of silage yeast or aerobic

deterioration of the silage.

PMID: 10194670 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

> Hello

>

> We did SCD for several months laat year and I am sure it really helped

> Tom's gut. Proper stools for the first time in years and rosy face

> with no dark circles. HOwever, he lost weight and he's tiny already,

> he's been about 42lbs for the past year and in that time he's grown

> upwards by 2 inches. In consultatoin with his school we stopped it and

> reverted to GF/Cf. But we know he craves things like rice cakes which

> seem to just show immediately on his face as dark eye circles. It's a

> very precarious exercise trying to feed him up whilst not overloading

> his ammonia. He had a major impaction in the summer - which we think

> we've now cleared.

>

> We're really keen to try SCD again but now discover that he has high

> ammonia. So we're assuming that SCD would be a real no no. Is there a

> way round this? I want that healthy faced boy back but preferably with

> more weight on his bones and not exacerbating his aggression which we

> think is triggered by ammonia.

>

> Any thoughts?

> thanks

>

> , UK mum of Tom, 8, finally making great progress but getting

> really aggressive from time to time.

>

December 10, 2006

Thank you for this! Steph

> > Hello

> >

> > We did SCD for several months laat year and I am sure it really

helped

> > Tom's gut. Proper stools for the first time in years and rosy

face

> > with no dark circles. HOwever, he lost weight and he's tiny

already,

> > he's been about 42lbs for the past year and in that time he's

grown

> > upwards by 2 inches. In consultatoin with his school we stopped

it and

> > reverted to GF/Cf. But we know he craves things like rice cakes

which

> > seem to just show immediately on his face as dark eye circles.

It's a

> > very precarious exercise trying to feed him up whilst not

overloading

> > his ammonia. He had a major impaction in the summer - which we

think

> > we've now cleared.

> >

> > We're really keen to try SCD again but now discover that he has

high

> > ammonia. So we're assuming that SCD would be a real no no. Is

there a

> > way round this? I want that healthy faced boy back but preferably

with

> > more weight on his bones and not exacerbating his aggression

which we

> > think is triggered by ammonia.

> >

> > Any thoughts?

> > thanks

> >

> > , UK mum of Tom, 8, finally making great progress but

getting

> > really aggressive from time to time.

> >

>

December 10, 2006

Dr. Yasko has a protocol for elevated ammonia levels. Pretty common in ASD kids

with bacterial issues. Check out www.autismanswer.com

Blessings,

Colleen

Breath of Life Treatment Center Inc.

103-A Brady Court

Cary, NC 27511

www.breathoflifetreatment.com

March 12, 2007

Hi ,

How have you made out with your ammonia issues? Which treatments of

those that were recommended did you try?

I had my sons on SCD foods for five months and found they had the most

beautiful stools and they were willing to eat a wider variety of foods

than they had been willing to eat, but their urine smelled horrid. I

didn't realize that this was ammonia building up until it was too

late. I had only been giving the kids SCD foods for five months when

I found the high ammonia level, but I've been working for seven months

now to lower the ammonia levels.

Dr. Yasko's protocols were mentioned by Colleen. Those have not

budged my sons' ammonia levels. My son had major regression from the

ammonia build up, and I am going to try Lactulose. I know another

poster mentioned that she had heard of other ASD kids not doing well

with this drug, but we are out of options. My son's cognitive level

has plummeted and his autistic symptoms have escalated. He even had

to be placed in a different school.

Is there anybody on this list who had success with Lactulose? I have

tried tons of lactobacillus already; I continue to use it, although

it does not lower the ammonia. We cannot use the yogurt; it appears

to make my younger son slur his speech and the kind people of this

group recommended that I not use it for that reason. Is there any

other agent anybody's had success with in lowering ammonia?

Janice

Mom to Billy (4) and Colby (3)