Guest guest Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Hi, My son is 10 wks. His pediatrician pointed out a possible problem with his headshape a couple of weeks ago. I keep looking at it, and I feel it's getting worse. She recommended having him turn to the opposite side when sleeping/playing. (it appears that his occipital lobe is indented, and the temporal lobe protrudes over it more on his left side than his right when looking at him from behind or above. But, I also notice that he's got these two bumps developing on either side of his head. If you look at him from the back, they look uneven in height. I've been feeling that I'm a bad mom. First of all, he was in a bassinet that we borrowed for the first couple of weeks. We received it from a friend, and I didn't realize how terribly flimsy the mattress was, then I was putting him in the natural arch of the bassinet, and his head was on a support rod that i ended up feeling through the mattress. we've moved him to his crib - i would have done this from the start, had i known this problem could develop. also, we've been using the britax chaperone, and i fear that maybe that is contributing to the problem. it's extremely confining. there are so many things i would have done differently...had i known... (even reducing swing/bouncy seat/activity mat time) (PS, why don't the doctors/hospitals give you information about preventing this at the outset? I'm a new parent - it makes sense that the skull bones would be malleable, what-with the fontanel, but why didn't they say anything?). at this point, it sounds like they don't want to see him until he's 4 mos. nearly everyday this week, i've been tempted to call and see if he can go in earlier for another checkup of his headshape. if other people look at him, they would consider it mild, if they saw anything. but, i'm his mom, and i'm seeing it all the time. plus, when i breastfeed, he's at the right angle for me to see these points forming on either side of his head. what should i do? wait till 4 mos? will this get better? everybody tells me that, but i just don't trust them (they haven't dealt with this before). ps, he was born via c-section & had the most beautifully round head (my friend called it a 'Charlie Brown' head). :-( he's not too fond of tummy time & has been rolling out of it for a couple of weeks. i read something about putting a towel underneath his chest so he continues tummy time, and that has been helping. Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 My daughter was diagnosed at 8 weeks with severe brachy and moderate plagio. She slept a lot and spent a lot of time in a rocker. I felt like a bad mom as well. I would stare at her head and became obsessive about it. You are NOT a bad mom! Please remember that. Being a new parent (myself as well), you did everything you were told to do(back to sleep and tummy time). I agree that hospitals should educate parents about this. My husband and I went to baby classes and these things were not talked about. I don't like to push my opinions on anyone but I will tell you this. Speaking from experience, if you see something wrong with the shape of his head, get another opinion. I noticed a problem with my daughter and my pediatrician was very proactive. I took her to Cranial Tech and she was fitted with her band at 3 months 1 week. She had a major growth spurt and made amazing progress. Her band is coming off on Monday for a total of 4 weeks of treatment. I know different children have different results. The techs at Cranial did say that children will have the most progress the younger they do it. I have absolutely no regrets. The sooner you do it, the better. I hope this helps. There are so many moms and dads on here who are much more knowledgeable, but I wanted to share my experience. > > Hi, > > My son is 10 wks. His pediatrician pointed out a possible problem with his headshape a couple of weeks ago. I keep looking at it, and I feel it's getting worse. She recommended having him turn to the opposite side when sleeping/playing. (it appears that his occipital lobe is indented, and the temporal lobe protrudes over it more on his left side than his right when looking at him from behind or above. But, I also notice that he's got these two bumps developing on either side of his head. If you look at him from the back, they look uneven in height. I've been feeling that I'm a bad mom. First of all, he was in a bassinet that we borrowed for the first couple of weeks. We received it from a friend, and I didn't realize how terribly flimsy the mattress was, then I was putting him in the natural arch of the bassinet, and his head was on a support rod that i ended up feeling through the mattress. we've moved him to his crib - i would have done this from the start, had i known this problem could develop. also, we've been using the britax chaperone, and i fear that maybe that is contributing to the problem. it's extremely confining. there are so many things i would have done differently...had i known... (even reducing swing/bouncy seat/activity mat time) (PS, why don't the doctors/hospitals give you information about preventing this at the outset? I'm a new parent - it makes sense that the skull bones would be malleable, what-with the fontanel, but why didn't they say anything?). at this point, it sounds like they don't want to see him until he's 4 mos. nearly everyday this week, i've been tempted to call and see if he can go in earlier for another checkup of his headshape. if other people look at him, they would consider it mild, if they saw anything. but, i'm his mom, and i'm seeing it all the time. plus, when i breastfeed, he's at the right angle for me to see these points forming on either side of his head. what should i do? wait till 4 mos? will this get better? everybody tells me that, but i just don't trust them (they haven't dealt with this before). ps, he was born via c-section & had the most beautifully round head (my friend called it a 'Charlie Brown' head). :-( > he's not too fond of tummy time & has been rolling out of it for a couple of weeks. i read something about putting a towel underneath his chest so he continues tummy time, and that has been helping. > Thanks in advance! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Hi there. I want to stress to you that you should NOT feel like a bad mom. Not at all, not for a second. At only 10 weeks, you're aware of this and can now start to do things differently with repositioning, more tummy time (has he really been rolling over for a few weeks? that's amazing!!), less time in the swing, bouncy, etc. You will find tremendous support here. The news of possibly needing a band for your baby is so upsetting at first. I cried and was, in some ways, devastated. I also remember saying that I would have been even more upset had this been happening with my first child - with us, it was our 2nd son that needed a Doc Band. Anyway... once I got past the initial shock of OMG, something is wrong with my baby, I realized that there are so many things that can go wrong, babies really are little miracles, and I found myself thankful that his 'problem' could be fixed. I was thankful that we didn't have any serious health issues to face. I remember reading that no one regrets getting a band, they regret waiting. Our experience was that we didn't notice anything until around 5 months. My son wore a Doc Band for 11 weeks, starting right at 6 months. His case was considered moderate, although we thought it was mild in that no one would have noticed the misshaped head and ears being slightly off had we not pointed it out to them. However, if his head had continued growing in the direction it was, I'm sure it would be very obvious down the road. We're thrilled with the results we saw, in just a short 11 weeks. The days leading up to getting the Doc Band, I was still so upset. And it ended up not being that big of a deal. We drove over 2 hours each way for our appointments and it meant that our summer was quite different than we had planned... but this is what we had to do. I would do it again without hesitation. We did get some fun decals from that bling your band site, which made a huge difference, I think. I think you're still feeling the initial shock of all of it. It's overwhelming. And so very upsetting. But... you'll get past this, no matter what ends up happening. If you end up needing a band / helmet, it won't be as horrifying as it sounds right now. And the thing with babies is that it all goes so quickly... so just enjoy your time with your new son now. And if he needs a helmet for even say 6 months, you will get through it and someday you will look back and say that really wasn't that big of a deal, in the grand scheme of things... Best of luck to you and hang in there. Don't be so hard on yourself! You're so right though that more educating should be done. We felt that maybe we could have prevented our son's case and we weren't new parents, this was our 2nd. So... you just never know. > > Hi, > > My son is 10 wks. His pediatrician pointed out a possible problem with his headshape a couple of weeks ago. I keep looking at it, and I feel it's getting worse. She recommended having him turn to the opposite side when sleeping/playing. (it appears that his occipital lobe is indented, and the temporal lobe protrudes over it more on his left side than his right when looking at him from behind or above. But, I also notice that he's got these two bumps developing on either side of his head. If you look at him from the back, they look uneven in height. I've been feeling that I'm a bad mom. First of all, he was in a bassinet that we borrowed for the first couple of weeks. We received it from a friend, and I didn't realize how terribly flimsy the mattress was, then I was putting him in the natural arch of the bassinet, and his head was on a support rod that i ended up feeling through the mattress. we've moved him to his crib - i would have done this from the start, had i known this problem could develop. also, we've been using the britax chaperone, and i fear that maybe that is contributing to the problem. it's extremely confining. there are so many things i would have done differently...had i known... (even reducing swing/bouncy seat/activity mat time) (PS, why don't the doctors/hospitals give you information about preventing this at the outset? I'm a new parent - it makes sense that the skull bones would be malleable, what-with the fontanel, but why didn't they say anything?). at this point, it sounds like they don't want to see him until he's 4 mos. nearly everyday this week, i've been tempted to call and see if he can go in earlier for another checkup of his headshape. if other people look at him, they would consider it mild, if they saw anything. but, i'm his mom, and i'm seeing it all the time. plus, when i breastfeed, he's at the right angle for me to see these points forming on either side of his head. what should i do? wait till 4 mos? will this get better? everybody tells me that, but i just don't trust them (they haven't dealt with this before). ps, he was born via c-section & had the most beautifully round head (my friend called it a 'Charlie Brown' head). :-( > he's not too fond of tummy time & has been rolling out of it for a couple of weeks. i read something about putting a towel underneath his chest so he continues tummy time, and that has been helping. > Thanks in advance! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Shellie, I wanted to tell you to be very diligent about positioning since your baby got her helmet so young, it will be coming off while she is till so young and there is a large chance for regression since her head is still so maleable for 8 more months. RubyLou, I first noticed my son's bulging forehead when he was 10wks old. I saw my ped that day and she immediately noticed the plagy. She referred me to Hanger, which was in my town. I spoke with the orthotist on the phone that week. He was telling me that 10 wks was way too early to band, but he would be glad to see us to measure. We went right in and he measured a 10mm diagonal difference. We discussed posistioning techniques and agreed to come in in another month to measure again. We did that every month until he was 5 months, but he was still measuring the 10mm. And we were doing EVERYTHING to keep him off of his head. He reassured me that at least with the repositioning, his head did not get any worse, which it probably would have if I had not noticed it so soon. He got his band at 5 months and stayed in it for 3 months and got down to 0 mm! I also discussed with my ped about m ore education for new parents. (This is my 4th child but I am 42 yrs old and all of my other children were put to sleep on their stomachs). They started putting info in the packets they give the new mommies at the hospital. I am glad they started doing that. If you need more info on positioning techniques, let us know. There are alot of people on this board with huge amounts of knowledge on this subject. Good Luck and keep us posted. From: shellie519 <shellie519@...>Plagiocephaly Sent: Fri, March 11, 2011 10:18:25 AMSubject: Re: New to Board, please advise My daughter was diagnosed at 8 weeks with severe brachy and moderate plagio. She slept a lot and spent a lot of time in a rocker. I felt like a bad mom as well. I would stare at her head and became obsessive about it. You are NOT a bad mom! Please remember that. Being a new parent (myself as well), you did everything you were told to do(back to sleep and tummy time). I agree that hospitals should educate parents about this. My husband and I went to baby classes and these things were not talked about. I don't like to push my opinions on anyone but I will tell you this. Speaking from experience, if you see something wrong with the shape of his head, get another opinion. I noticed a problem with my daughter and my pediatrician was very proactive. I took her to Cranial Tech and she was fitted with her band at 3 months 1 week. She had a major growth spurt and made amazing progress. Her band is coming off on Monday for a total of 4 weeks of treatment. I know different children have different results. The techs at Cranial did say that children will have the most progress the younger they do it. I have absolutely no regrets. The sooner you do it, the better. I hope this helps. There are so many moms and dads on here who are much more knowledgeable, but I wanted to share my experience. >> Hi,> > My son is 10 wks. His pediatrician pointed out a possible problem with his headshape a couple of weeks ago. I keep looking at it, and I feel it's getting worse. She recommended having him turn to the opposite side when sleeping/playing. (it appears that his occipital lobe is indented, and the temporal lobe protrudes over it more on his left side than his right when looking at him from behind or above. But, I also notice that he's got these two bumps developing on either side of his head. If you look at him from the back, they look uneven in height. I've been feeling that I'm a bad mom. First of all, he was in a bassinet that we borrowed for the first couple of weeks. We received it from a friend, and I didn't realize how terribly flimsy the mattress was, then I was putting him in the natural arch of the bassinet, and his head was on a support rod that i ended up feeling through the mattress. we've moved him to his crib - i would have done this from the start, had i known this problem could develop. also, we've been using the britax chaperone, and i fear that maybe that is contributing to the problem. it's extremely confining. there are so many things i would have done differently...had i known... (even reducing swing/bouncy seat/activity mat time) (PS, why don't the doctors/hospitals give you information about preventing this at the outset? I'm a new parent - it makes sense that the skull bones would be malleable, what-with the fontanel, but why didn't they say anything?). at this point, it sounds like they don't want to see him until he's 4 mos. nearly everyday this week, i've been tempted to call and see if he can go in earlier for another checkup of his headshape. if other people look at him, they would consider it mild, if they saw anything. but, i'm his mom, and i'm seeing it all the time. plus, when i breastfeed, he's at the right angle for me to see these points forming on either side of his head. what should i do? wait till 4 mos? will this get better? everybody tells me that, but i just don't trust them (they haven't dealt with this before). ps, he was born via c-section & had the most beautifully round head (my friend called it a 'Charlie Brown' head). :-(> he's not too fond of tummy time & has been rolling out of it for a couple of weeks. i read something about putting a towel underneath his chest so he continues tummy time, and that has been helping.> Thanks in advance!> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 I just want to add a silver-lining or blessing-in-disguise thought: There are so many other moms who I know had their babies on their back more than me (and probably more than you as well) - so there has to be another explanation for why some babies' head shape gets altered and others don't. I am now of the firm opinion that the head shape is a reflection of the spinal mobility/function, especially that of the neck. Most of the babies here seem to also have torticollis. My daughter wasn't diagnosed with tort, though I now believe that she has *something*affecting her neck mobility, and we are now treating that with chiro and had in the past had PT (physical therapy) and well as CST (craniosacral therapy). Your son is so young and you have so many great opportunities for positive intervention and correction. If your ped isn't recommending a helmet/band yet, perhaps ask if he/she would refer you to PT or similar. Even if there isn't obvious tort, there is a possibility of a more subtle underlying issue that you could address early. When you mention that your son isn't fond of tummy time and rolls out of it, it reminds me of my daughter. In retrospect I think she was " telling " me that it wasn't a comfortable position, which it should be if neck function is normal. All just my rambling opinions, but perhaps they might be of benefit to you . . . Best of luck! Amy 26-month-old daughter in STARband since 9/10 On Mar 11, 2011, at 7:48 AM, babyboyreiss wrote: > Hi there. I want to stress to you that you should NOT feel like a > bad mom. Not at all, not for a second. At only 10 weeks, you're > aware of this and can now start to do things differently with > repositioning, more tummy time (has he really been rolling over for > a few weeks? that's amazing!!), less time in the swing, bouncy, > etc. You will find tremendous support here. The news of possibly > needing a band for your baby is so upsetting at first. I cried and > was, in some ways, devastated. I also remember saying that I would > have been even more upset had this been happening with my first > child - with us, it was our 2nd son that needed a Doc Band. > Anyway... once I got past the initial shock of OMG, something is > wrong with my baby, I realized that there are so many things that > can go wrong, babies really are little miracles, and I found myself > thankful that his 'problem' could be fixed. I was thankful that we > didn't have any serious health issues to face. I remember reading > that no one regrets getting a band, they regret waiting. Our > experience was that we didn't notice anything until around 5 > months. My son wore a Doc Band for 11 weeks, starting right at 6 > months. His case was considered moderate, although we thought it > was mild in that no one would have noticed the misshaped head and > ears being slightly off had we not pointed it out to them. > However, if his head had continued growing in the direction it was, > I'm sure it would be very obvious down the road. We're thrilled > with the results we saw, in just a short 11 weeks. The days > leading up to getting the Doc Band, I was still so upset. And it > ended up not being that big of a deal. We drove over 2 hours each > way for our appointments and it meant that our summer was quite > different than we had planned... but this is what we had to do. I > would do it again without hesitation. We did get some fun decals > from that bling your band site, which made a huge difference, I think. > > I think you're still feeling the initial shock of all of it. It's > overwhelming. And so very upsetting. But... you'll get past this, > no matter what ends up happening. If you end up needing a band / > helmet, it won't be as horrifying as it sounds right now. And the > thing with babies is that it all goes so quickly... so just enjoy > your time with your new son now. And if he needs a helmet for even > say 6 months, you will get through it and someday you will look > back and say that really wasn't that big of a deal, in the grand > scheme of things... > > Best of luck to you and hang in there. Don't be so hard on > yourself! You're so right though that more educating should be > done. We felt that maybe we could have prevented our son's case > and we weren't new parents, this was our 2nd. So... you just > never know. > > > >> >> Hi, >> >> My son is 10 wks. His pediatrician pointed out a possible problem >> with his headshape a couple of weeks ago. I keep looking at it, >> and I feel it's getting worse. She recommended having him turn to >> the opposite side when sleeping/playing. (it appears that his >> occipital lobe is indented, and the temporal lobe protrudes over >> it more on his left side than his right when looking at him from >> behind or above. But, I also notice that he's got these two bumps >> developing on either side of his head. If you look at him from the >> back, they look uneven in height. I've been feeling that I'm a bad >> mom. First of all, he was in a bassinet that we borrowed for the >> first couple of weeks. We received it from a friend, and I didn't >> realize how terribly flimsy the mattress was, then I was putting >> him in the natural arch of the bassinet, and his head was on a >> support rod that i ended up feeling through the mattress. we've >> moved him to his crib - i would have done this from the start, had >> i known this problem could develop. also, we've been using the >> britax chaperone, and i fear that maybe that is contributing to >> the problem. it's extremely confining. there are so many things i >> would have done differently...had i known... (even reducing swing/ >> bouncy seat/activity mat time) (PS, why don't the doctors/ >> hospitals give you information about preventing this at the >> outset? I'm a new parent - it makes sense that the skull bones >> would be malleable, what-with the fontanel, but why didn't they >> say anything?). at this point, it sounds like they don't want to >> see him until he's 4 mos. nearly everyday this week, i've been >> tempted to call and see if he can go in earlier for another >> checkup of his headshape. if other people look at him, they would >> consider it mild, if they saw anything. but, i'm his mom, and i'm >> seeing it all the time. plus, when i breastfeed, he's at the right >> angle for me to see these points forming on either side of his >> head. what should i do? wait till 4 mos? will this get better? >> everybody tells me that, but i just don't trust them (they haven't >> dealt with this before). ps, he was born via c-section & had the >> most beautifully round head (my friend called it a 'Charlie Brown' >> head). :-( >> he's not too fond of tummy time & has been rolling out of it for a >> couple of weeks. i read something about putting a towel underneath >> his chest so he continues tummy time, and that has been helping. >> Thanks in advance! >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > For more plagio info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 i think there also more premature births and that makes the head softer. i know mine slept in my lap and always with arrangers when in crib due to her personal issues. She spent a ton of time in her bouncer when she couldn't sit up so she wasn't resting her head on anything. my girl walks with head to one side a lot. No idea what that means.From: Amy <amy.sanger.miller@...>Plagiocephaly Sent: Fri, March 11, 2011 9:38:52 PMSubject: Re: Re: New to Board, please advise I just want to add a silver-lining or blessing-in-disguise thought: There are so many other moms who I know had their babies on their back more than me (and probably more than you as well) - so there has to be another explanation for why some babies' head shape gets altered and others don't. I am now of the firm opinion that the head shape is a reflection of the spinal mobility/function, especially that of the neck. Most of the babies here seem to also have torticollis. My daughter wasn't diagnosed with tort, though I now believe that she has *something*affecting her neck mobility, and we are now treating that with chiro and had in the past had PT (physical therapy) and well as CST (craniosacral therapy). Your son is so young and you have so many great opportunities for positive intervention and correction. If your ped isn't recommending a helmet/band yet, perhaps ask if he/she would refer you to PT or similar. Even if there isn't obvious tort, there is a possibility of a more subtle underlying issue that you could address early. When you mention that your son isn't fond of tummy time and rolls out of it, it reminds me of my daughter. In retrospect I think she was "telling" me that it wasn't a comfortable position, which it should be if neck function is normal. All just my rambling opinions, but perhaps they might be of benefit to you . . . Best of luck! Amy 26-month-old daughter in STARband since 9/10 On Mar 11, 2011, at 7:48 AM, babyboyreiss wrote: > Hi there. I want to stress to you that you should NOT feel like a > bad mom. Not at all, not for a second. At only 10 weeks, you're > aware of this and can now start to do things differently with > repositioning, more tummy time (has he really been rolling over for > a few weeks? that's amazing!!), less time in the swing, bouncy, > etc. You will find tremendous support here. The news of possibly > needing a band for your baby is so upsetting at first. I cried and > was, in some ways, devastated. I also remember saying that I would > have been even more upset had this been happening with my first > child - with us, it was our 2nd son that needed a Doc Band. > Anyway... once I got past the initial shock of OMG, something is > wrong with my baby, I realized that there are so many things that > can go wrong, babies really are little miracles, and I found myself > thankful that his 'problem' could be fixed. I was thankful that we > didn't have any serious health issues to face. I remember reading > that no one regrets getting a band, they regret waiting. Our > experience was that we didn't notice anything until around 5 > months. My son wore a Doc Band for 11 weeks, starting right at 6 > months. His case was considered moderate, although we thought it > was mild in that no one would have noticed the misshaped head and > ears being slightly off had we not pointed it out to them. > However, if his head had continued growing in the direction it was, > I'm sure it would be very obvious down the road. We're thrilled > with the results we saw, in just a short 11 weeks. The days > leading up to getting the Doc Band, I was still so upset. And it > ended up not being that big of a deal. We drove over 2 hours each > way for our appointments and it meant that our summer was quite > different than we had planned... but this is what we had to do. I > would do it again without hesitation. We did get some fun decals > from that bling your band site, which made a huge difference, I think. > > I think you're still feeling the initial shock of all of it. It's > overwhelming. And so very upsetting. But... you'll get past this, > no matter what ends up happening. If you end up needing a band / > helmet, it won't be as horrifying as it sounds right now. And the > thing with babies is that it all goes so quickly... so just enjoy > your time with your new son now. And if he needs a helmet for even > say 6 months, you will get through it and someday you will look > back and say that really wasn't that big of a deal, in the grand > scheme of things... > > Best of luck to you and hang in there. Don't be so hard on > yourself! You're so right though that more educating should be > done. We felt that maybe we could have prevented our son's case > and we weren't new parents, this was our 2nd. So... you just > never know. > > > >> >> Hi, >> >> My son is 10 wks. His pediatrician pointed out a possible problem >> with his headshape a couple of weeks ago. I keep looking at it, >> and I feel it's getting worse. She recommended having him turn to >> the opposite side when sleeping/playing. (it appears that his >> occipital lobe is indented, and the temporal lobe protrudes over >> it more on his left side than his right when looking at him from >> behind or above. But, I also notice that he's got these two bumps >> developing on either side of his head. If you look at him from the >> back, they look uneven in height. I've been feeling that I'm a bad >> mom. First of all, he was in a bassinet that we borrowed for the >> first couple of weeks. We received it from a friend, and I didn't >> realize how terribly flimsy the mattress was, then I was putting >> him in the natural arch of the bassinet, and his head was on a >> support rod that i ended up feeling through the mattress. we've >> moved him to his crib - i would have done this from the start, had >> i known this problem could develop. also, we've been using the >> britax chaperone, and i fear that maybe that is contributing to >> the problem. it's extremely confining. there are so many things i >> would have done differently...had i known... (even reducing swing/ >> bouncy seat/activity mat time) (PS, why don't the doctors/ >> hospitals give you information about preventing this at the >> outset? I'm a new parent - it makes sense that the skull bones >> would be malleable, what-with the fontanel, but why didn't they >> say anything?). at this point, it sounds like they don't want to >> see him until he's 4 mos. nearly everyday this week, i've been >> tempted to call and see if he can go in earlier for another >> checkup of his headshape. if other people look at him, they would >> consider it mild, if they saw anything. but, i'm his mom, and i'm >> seeing it all the time. plus, when i breastfeed, he's at the right >> angle for me to see these points forming on either side of his >> head. what should i do? wait till 4 mos? will this get better? >> everybody tells me that, but i just don't trust them (they haven't >> dealt with this before). ps, he was born via c-section & had the >> most beautifully round head (my friend called it a 'Charlie Brown' >> head). :-( >> he's not too fond of tummy time & has been rolling out of it for a >> couple of weeks. i read something about putting a towel underneath >> his chest so he continues tummy time, and that has been helping. >> Thanks in advance! >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > For more plagio info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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