Re: which steroid if needed

[Guest guest]

Eileen,

Before jumping into steroids which will only make your Yeast issues worse- have

you done stool testing not via Quest? Maybe you caught a pathogen. I did a

while ago.

It's a good idea to get a rectal swab.

Also, why not look into LDN if the inflammation is bad- side effects from

steroids are way worse.

If this is a reaction to a supplement- it may just take time to normalize

again... Why jump the gun?

Jodi

>

> ok so 4 weeks now and still D from that dumb Bio-gest

> PS if anyone wants it, I will NEVER take it again

> having said that I've gone broth and chicken to adding more food to bulk up BM

and I seemed to get some pieces in there but now total water again so back on

broth and chicken since yesterday and water again this am twice- i will do this

for 1 more day- may even puree chicken today

> BUT I may need a steroid ,I don't have experience with anything but a lil

Entecort in the beginning of sickness and all I had was nausea so it did nothing

and i was weaned off - internist was talking prednisone and GI hasn't said yet

but I will talk to him by tues so any thoughts as to which -how much, side

affects etc etc

> thanks

> eileen

> 2 years 8 months scd

>

[Guest guest]

cause i can't do this anymore -4 weeks of D no supplements etc -i need to feel

good - ldn is a no go due to my heart and it is definately (99% sure) that it's

the dumb pills as my bm's got looser as soon as i started them and i kept going

thinking hcl would just cause burning - so i did 4 days at 3 a day while geting

worse -duh!! only quest testing so far

but i don't think time can pull me out right now - doing broth and pureed

chicken today - there is pain for the 1st time MAYBE it's inflammmation going

down? OR an actual bm forming - can't imagine but i'm hopeful - i mean how long

can it take when i've been eating nothing irritating for 4 weeks

this stinks!!!

eileen

> >

> > ok so 4 weeks now and still D from that dumb Bio-gest

> > PS if anyone wants it, I will NEVER take it again

> > having said that I've gone broth and chicken to adding more food to bulk up

BM and I seemed to get some pieces in there but now total water again so back on

broth and chicken since yesterday and water again this am twice- i will do this

for 1 more day- may even puree chicken today

> > BUT I may need a steroid ,I don't have experience with anything but a lil

Entecort in the beginning of sickness and all I had was nausea so it did nothing

and i was weaned off - internist was talking prednisone and GI hasn't said yet

but I will talk to him by tues so any thoughts as to which -how much, side

affects etc etc

> > thanks

> > eileen

> > 2 years 8 months scd

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Eileen,

At times if I screw up with a supplement it can take months for me to get better

and not be so sensitive. I am thankful as now when these things happen I don't

get bed-ridden for weeks.

Did you gradually increase the HCI?

It totally gave me D in the begining. But then again everything gives me D.

Many HCI are sold are at a large dosage. I found taking the smaller dose ones

through-out the meal to work for me best.

Some people just split the capsule. I think it all depends on the body and the

amount of protein consumed. I am now able to eat more veg and not be so protein

heavy (for me and my body that is). But I am incorporating food combining

principles from BED and that seems to be helping since my BM's have been erratic

post surgery.

I don't really understand the LDN/Heart connection? Are they worried you may go

HyperThyroid and your heart rate will increase? What about a very small dosage

like 1.5-1.75mg?

You might want to look into heavy duty acupuncture as well as taking activated

charcoal. Like intensely.

I would pull any store bought ready made anything..

Also, are you going through any major life change?

I have kind of flared some since my grandma passed away.

If steroids are your only option maybe ask your doc about a short burst?

Also, have you done blood work like checking CBC, ESR, CRP, complete iron panel

including ferritin etc etc?

Ohh- and what is bio-gest?

You should totally look into getting stool work from a non- Quest lab.

I would tell youto use that lab in Phoenix but since you are in NY and so many

things are illegal here- you should look into Genova comprehensive stool kit

along with a urine dysbiosis (Metametrix has a good one) but a rectal swab which

is old school is far more accurate a read- Dr on in NYC does the

rectal swab.

If you want to look into the gut pathogen route there is Cayhill (better

for prolonged esoteric stuff although some of his treatments can get whack) and

the Lab Jetti Katz (expensive and I find the rectal swab to be far more helpful)

Jodi

[Guest guest]

wow -so much to take in - ok ,so everytime i think it's time to take something -

I hear from one of you and think ok - this too shall pass

we are moving but I really don't feel that's part of it - stress usually

causes insomnia etc not ever D in me and I don't even feel stresed about thwe

move I'm so excited that packing is keeping my mind off my D - lol

the bio-gest is hcl with betaine and enzymes - i'm blaming the enzymes not the

hcl -as it was a small dosage and never caused a burning or anything - i was on

digest gold already and never should have asked the pharmacist for one with

enzymes in it - i'm sure that's where i made my mistake - so you can go months

with D ?? how many a day??

I don't THINK i need further testing unless enzymes can cause issues that would

show on stool tests (but i'm saving your info) incase by some weird chance it's

something else

thanks so much!!!

Eileen

>

> Eileen,

>

> At times if I screw up with a supplement it can take months for me to get

better and not be so sensitive. I am thankful as now when these things happen I

don't get bed-ridden for weeks.

>

> Did you gradually increase the HCI?

> It totally gave me D in the begining. But then again everything gives me D.

Many HCI are sold are at a large dosage. I found taking the smaller dose ones

through-out the meal to work for me best.

> Some people just split the capsule. I think it all depends on the body and

the amount of protein consumed. I am now able to eat more veg and not be so

protein heavy (for me and my body that is). But I am incorporating food

combining principles from BED and that seems to be helping since my BM's have

been erratic post surgery.

>

> I don't really understand the LDN/Heart connection? Are they worried you may

go HyperThyroid and your heart rate will increase? What about a very small

dosage like 1.5-1.75mg?

>

> You might want to look into heavy duty acupuncture as well as taking activated

charcoal. Like intensely.

>

> I would pull any store bought ready made anything..

> Also, are you going through any major life change?

> I have kind of flared some since my grandma passed away.

>

> If steroids are your only option maybe ask your doc about a short burst?

> Also, have you done blood work like checking CBC, ESR, CRP, complete iron

panel including ferritin etc etc?

>

> Ohh- and what is bio-gest?

>

> You should totally look into getting stool work from a non- Quest lab.

> I would tell youto use that lab in Phoenix but since you are in NY and so many

things are illegal here- you should look into Genova comprehensive stool kit

along with a urine dysbiosis (Metametrix has a good one) but a rectal swab which

is old school is far more accurate a read- Dr on in NYC does the

rectal swab.

> If you want to look into the gut pathogen route there is Cayhill (better

for prolonged esoteric stuff although some of his treatments can get whack) and

the Lab Jetti Katz (expensive and I find the rectal swab to be far more helpful)

>

> Jodi

>

[Guest guest]

It can also be the brand of HCl. I have done very well on Zypan (but it does

have lactose in it). I also have been advised about how many to take depending

on what I eat. With a fruit based meal or non fiberous veggie based meal, i

only take one. If I am eating a salad or a protein based meal, then I take 2.

I guess my point is, not all supplements are created equally and if you have

someone who can guide you about appropriate amounts to take, then maybe you

would have better results? Just my thoughts... Hope you feel better soon!

)

[Guest guest]

thanks -yes my first time venturing in w/o talking to doc and bam hear i am -

she said i should have done 1 once a day for 3 days then increased - so wish i

could go back in time!!

eileen

>

> It can also be the brand of HCl. I have done very well on Zypan (but it does

have lactose in it). I also have been advised about how many to take depending

on what I eat. With a fruit based meal or non fiberous veggie based meal, i

only take one. If I am eating a salad or a protein based meal, then I take 2.

I guess my point is, not all supplements are created equally and if you have

someone who can guide you about appropriate amounts to take, then maybe you

would have better results? Just my thoughts... Hope you feel better soon!

)

>

[Guest guest]

Now is also a really good brand of Betaine HCl.

http://www.nowfoods.com/Products/ProductsAlphabetically/M003463.htm

Betaine HCl - 648 mg*

Pepsin Enzymes - 150 mg*

Other Ingredients: Gelatin (capsule), Magnesium Stearate (vegetable source) and

Silica.

Contains no: sugar, salt, starch, yeast, wheat, gluten, corn, soy, milk, egg,

shellfish or preservatives.

Right now, I only take 1 before supper (my only meal with meat). However, I'm

thinking about taking 1 before every meal. I even tried 2 with supper once, with

no problem, but was worried about taking more then the bottle recommended.

Holly

Crohn's

SCD 12/01/08

>

> It can also be the brand of HCl. I have done very well on Zypan (but it does

have lactose in it). I also have been advised about how many to take depending

on what I eat. With a fruit based meal or non fiberous veggie based meal, i

only take one. If I am eating a salad or a protein based meal, then I take 2.

I guess my point is, not all supplements are created equally and if you have

someone who can guide you about appropriate amounts to take, then maybe you

would have better results? Just my thoughts... Hope you feel better soon!

)

>

[Guest guest]

So Holly, does this help you more than regular enzymes? Frex, digestive gold?

Mara

> Now is also a really good brand of Betaine HCl.

>

> http://www.nowfoods.com/Products/ProductsAlphabetically/M003463.htm

>

> Betaine HCl - 648 mg*

> Pepsin Enzymes - 150 mg*

>

> Other Ingredients: Gelatin (capsule), Magnesium Stearate (vegetable source)

and Silica.

>

> Contains no: sugar, salt, starch, yeast, wheat, gluten, corn, soy, milk, egg,

shellfish or preservatives.

>

> Right now, I only take 1 before supper (my only meal with meat). However, I'm

thinking about taking 1 before every meal. I even tried 2 with supper once, with

no problem, but was worried about taking more then the bottle recommended.

>

> Holly

> Crohn's

> SCD 12/01/08

>

>

>>

>> It can also be the brand of HCl. I have done very well on Zypan (but it does

have lactose in it). I also have been advised about how many to take depending

on what I eat. With a fruit based meal or non fiberous veggie based meal, i

only take one. If I am eating a salad or a protein based meal, then I take 2.

I guess my point is, not all supplements are created equally and if you have

someone who can guide you about appropriate amounts to take, then maybe you

would have better results? Just my thoughts... Hope you feel better soon!

)

>>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

no pepsin for me ever again or pancreatin or ox bile those were in the bio-gest

plus betaine and hcl

eileen

do you all think i should put my digest gold back in?? i have enzyme phobia

right now -lol

> >

> > It can also be the brand of HCl. I have done very well on Zypan (but it

does have lactose in it). I also have been advised about how many to take

depending on what I eat. With a fruit based meal or non fiberous veggie based

meal, i only take one. If I am eating a salad or a protein based meal, then I

take 2. I guess my point is, not all supplements are created equally and if you

have someone who can guide you about appropriate amounts to take, then maybe you

would have better results? Just my thoughts... Hope you feel better soon!

)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I was having a lot of stomach problems last spring: pain (sometimes severe),

gurgling, and a feeling of fullness. An endoscope showed inflammation. Since

starting the Betaine HCl, I haven't had any stomach problems *knock on wood*.

I've even been able to enjoy some raw fruit for the first time (I'm currently

addicted to Trader Joe's organic strawberries).

I have a bunch of Prozymes in the cupboard, that are probably expired by now.

They just didn't help at all.

On a side note, I just had a blood test for B12, and it was high. You need good

stomach acid to absorb B12, and I can't help but think the Betaine HCl has

helped (I need to find out what my B12 was last fall). You also need good

stomach acid to absorb iron, so it will be interesting to see if I can finally

start gaining ground with my anemia.

Holly

Crohn's

SCD 12/01/08

>

> So Holly, does this help you more than regular enzymes? Frex, digestive gold?

>

> Mara

[Guest guest]

Hi Holly,

NOW makes fantastic products! Their batch testing is very high quality as well.

I'd like to make a suggestion to you-

You're taking a nice " high " dosage of HCL;

I think it may be good for your delicate system- to eat a couple of bites of

food and then take it... that way you preserve yourself and don't cause

irritation.

Some people take high doses for a short period of time, or take a higher dose

when like eating a huge steak (I've done this and it helps muchly) anyway, I

don't feel anything with high doses either. I have now been able to eat more

veggies too as a result. I have been able to eat some raw fruit too!!

Jodi

[Guest guest]

Eileen,

Pepsin is pretty good to have with HCL (many preparations already contain it

although you can purchase it without it) and Pancreatin just refers to basically

a combo of basic enzymes (Pancreatic) and in *some* cases in specific doses.

Ox Bile can be harsh for some people and magic for others.

But a supplement containing ALL of these seems like a recipe for disaster as

that is A LOT of stuff being Intro'd at ONCE!!

Take a break from enzymes.. Don't rush. Allow yourself to stabilize..

Jodi

[Guest guest]

Eileen,

I think a more holistic way to look at it Eileen- isn't to blame a specific

thing in the Bio-Gest. Basically, it's just too much all at once. Different

enzymes are sourced/delivered differently- in different dosages etc.. You

basically intro'd like at least 5 products all at once- most of them being new.

Excitement can cause flares... Butterflies etc. It may be about how we with

bowel issues process overwhelm or change of any sort. Both Negative and

Positive are in the same rainbow so it's not only negativity that affects us..

I can't really answer how long can we go with D.

I mean I went for years.. No meds helped. I am not saying this is everyone's

experience or saying that this is ok by any means.. maybe others can give their

opinions..

It's not uncommon for people with IBD to be " cured " but to still experience

loose stools a couple of times a day.

I think it all depends on you and your body.

Number 1 is you know your body best

Number 2 is you need to choose when to listen to your docs

Number 3 don't freak out.

Monitor your symptoms and see how you feel.

I personally have learned over the years from my various GI's that all the

testing and imaging and so on can show X but it really comes down to how the

patient feels clinically.

How are you feeling? Are you feeling awful? Has your life stopped or slowed

down?

I know it is disconcerting but, you may have bouts of this.

Every single time I have a new wave of Candida die-off (which is high due to

crazy mercury levels) I get watery stool, really bad belly pain and then it kind

of passes..

I am not saying this is your experience.

Just some thoughts..

Jodi

[Guest guest]

thanks i need to hear all the perspectives and not being a D person for me it

does send a scary signal to me but i think i will trudge on a bit more - has it

slowed life? yes - nervous walking around wondering if i'll have to go etc - i

never even had D from die-off - never really had die-off - weird considering all

i was on

i may get it big time when i start back - also i agree i took 3 a day for 4

days so it was way too much new stuff - would love to use just hcl and gold

someday when i'm fixed

ps raw fruit!! wow!!!!!

eileen

>

> Eileen,

>

> I think a more holistic way to look at it Eileen- isn't to blame a specific

thing in the Bio-Gest. Basically, it's just too much all at once. Different

enzymes are sourced/delivered differently- in different dosages etc.. You

basically intro'd like at least 5 products all at once- most of them being new.

>

> Excitement can cause flares... Butterflies etc. It may be about how we with

bowel issues process overwhelm or change of any sort. Both Negative and

Positive are in the same rainbow so it's not only negativity that affects us..

>

> I can't really answer how long can we go with D.

> I mean I went for years.. No meds helped. I am not saying this is everyone's

experience or saying that this is ok by any means.. maybe others can give their

opinions..

> It's not uncommon for people with IBD to be " cured " but to still experience

loose stools a couple of times a day.

> I think it all depends on you and your body.

> Number 1 is you know your body best

> Number 2 is you need to choose when to listen to your docs

> Number 3 don't freak out.

> Monitor your symptoms and see how you feel.

> I personally have learned over the years from my various GI's that all the

testing and imaging and so on can show X but it really comes down to how the

patient feels clinically.

> How are you feeling? Are you feeling awful? Has your life stopped or slowed

down?

>

> I know it is disconcerting but, you may have bouts of this.

> Every single time I have a new wave of Candida die-off (which is high due to

crazy mercury levels) I get watery stool, really bad belly pain and then it kind

of passes..

>

> I am not saying this is your experience.

> Just some thoughts..

>

> Jodi

>

[Guest guest]

I take my HCl near then end of my meal, which seems to be working pretty well.

I'm thinking of buying some empty capsules, and dividing some HCl capsules in

half. I don't know that I need a whole capsule with anything but dinner, since

I'm not eating any meat with the other meals.

I even have my mom and dad taking this stuff! And my dad is no longer

complaining about feeling nauseous after dinner (which my mom always took as a

huge complement to her cooking). He NEVER listens to me or my mom, so this was

quite a surprise :-).

Holly

>

> Hi Holly,

>

> NOW makes fantastic products! Their batch testing is very high quality as

well.

>

> I'd like to make a suggestion to you-

> You're taking a nice " high " dosage of HCL;

> I think it may be good for your delicate system- to eat a couple of bites of

food and then take it... that way you preserve yourself and don't cause

irritation.

>

> Some people take high doses for a short period of time, or take a higher dose

when like eating a huge steak (I've done this and it helps muchly) anyway, I

don't feel anything with high doses either. I have now been able to eat more

veggies too as a result. I have been able to eat some raw fruit too!!

>

> Jodi

>