Re: Serious Increase in Son's Urine ???

[Guest guest]

One explanation could be that since he's no longer having severe d, the excess

water is excreted as urine. You lose a lot of water with chronic d and you've

become accustomed to small amounts of urine. So you notive a big difference

when the d stops.

Just guessing.

Phyllis

[Guest guest]

Carissa,

I've noticed the same thing in my DS who is 2 + 2/3 yrs old. He's been on the

diet 3 mos. now and we haven't had a day of D since we began. Potty training is

hard for us because it's almost every 10 min. that he needs to pee (is that any

different from a child without Crohns or Colitis?). We are just kind of going

with it for now and cutting back a little on his liquids and figuring that in

next few months he'll decide that he doesn't want to have wet clothes. I'm

carrying extra clothes all the time. We're heading to the Gastroenterologist on

Monday for a check up so I'll ask then and get back to you.

>

> Since we've started the diet (about 1.5 months ago now), I've noticed a

serious increase in the amount/frequency that my son urinates. Is this

normal??? His bowels have become more solid, which is great (and was keeping us

from potty training), but now I'm hesitating to potty training because of his

frequency to go pee! I don't mind it, as long as it's normal and healthy. I

just didn't know if anyone else had the same thing happen or not with their

children??? Or if anyone knows WHY this has happened?

>

> Thanks as always!

> Carissa

>

[Guest guest]

We had this too, and I always attributed it to die-off, but it happened

especially during times of oxalate dumping (sandy stools). We are seeing a

return of it on the low-oxalate diet so it might be just an oxalate thing, but

it is entirely normal and is talked about often at the Pecanbread board.

> >

> > Since we've started the diet (about 1.5 months ago now), I've noticed a

serious increase in the amount/frequency that my son urinates. Is this

normal??? His bowels have become more solid, which is great (and was keeping us

from potty training), but now I'm hesitating to potty training because of his

frequency to go pee! I don't mind it, as long as it's normal and healthy. I

just didn't know if anyone else had the same thing happen or not with their

children??? Or if anyone knows WHY this has happened?

> >

> > Thanks as always!

> > Carissa

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My son is recovering from a celiac disease that went undiagnosed for 3 years. My

son used to urinate frequently, too. He was potty trained at 2 1/2, but soaked

a diaper every nite. I tested his urine PH with test strips, and it was always

8 or 9; it should have been around 7. Despite strict SCD, with S.boulardii,

yogurt, herbal antifungals, for 9 months, bacteria and yeast were still out of

control. Our GI prescribed 3 rounds of Flagyl. For one day during the first

round that his PH was better, and urination less frequent. During the 2nd round,

improvement for several days. Third round, was able to give up diapers at night

and stopped frequent daytime urination and PH became normal. I've read that the

bacteria overgrowth produces an acidic environment. The kidneys try to flush it

all out, and keep the body's PH in balance, thus causing frequent urination.

We've managed to keep bacteria at bay with diet, and herbs about once a week.

Hope this info helps.

-heather

>

> Since we've started the diet (about 1.5 months ago now), I've noticed a

serious increase in the amount/frequency that my son urinates. Is this

normal??? His bowels have become more solid, which is great (and was keeping us

from potty training), but now I'm hesitating to potty training because of his

frequency to go pee! I don't mind it, as long as it's normal and healthy. I

just didn't know if anyone else had the same thing happen or not with their

children??? Or if anyone knows WHY this has happened?

>

> Thanks as always!

> Carissa

>

[Guest guest]

" carissa.magras " wrote:

>

> Since we've started the diet (about 1.5 months ago now), I've noticed a

serious increase in the amount/frequency that my son urinates. Is this

normal??? His bowels have become more solid, which is great (and was keeping us

from potty training), but now I'm hesitating to potty training because of his

frequency to go pee!

> Thanks as always!

> Carissa

>>

Carissa, this sounds totally normal to me. If the liquids

are being extracted by the colon, where should they be going but to the

bladder?~! Also, CONVENIENT for potty-training. When I did Potty-training in

Less Than a Day w/ #2 kiddo they recommended rewarding w/ salty foods to make

the kid go MORE in order to get more pottying rewards into a day. Great for

you!! You might check out that book. The author stresses that the child should

be ready and Steph was. It woiked GREAT for us.

Artful Carol

[Guest guest]

Well I'm glad to know I'm not alone on the laundry front! =) hahaha.

Thanks , I appreciate your response! And yes, please do get back with me

on what the gastro says! =)

Carissa

> >

> > Since we've started the diet (about 1.5 months ago now), I've noticed a

serious increase in the amount/frequency that my son urinates. Is this

normal??? His bowels have become more solid, which is great (and was keeping us

from potty training), but now I'm hesitating to potty training because of his

frequency to go pee! I don't mind it, as long as it's normal and healthy. I

just didn't know if anyone else had the same thing happen or not with their

children??? Or if anyone knows WHY this has happened?

> >

> > Thanks as always!

> > Carissa

> >

>

[Guest guest]

So other than SCDiet, what else are you doing? I think we definitely have those

issues (the bacteria, too acidic, etc.). I'm actually attending a workshop this

week on balancing our ph levels via diet. But it sounds like, for you, that

wasn't enough? So what exactly is Flagyl? And how would I know if I should

consider that with my son or not?

Oh, and do the test strips just tell if your ph is off or not, or does it also

give indication as to your bad bacteria levels as well?

Thanks ! I'm learning so much! =)

Carissa

> >

> > Since we've started the diet (about 1.5 months ago now), I've noticed a

serious increase in the amount/frequency that my son urinates. Is this

normal??? His bowels have become more solid, which is great (and was keeping us

from potty training), but now I'm hesitating to potty training because of his

frequency to go pee! I don't mind it, as long as it's normal and healthy. I

just didn't know if anyone else had the same thing happen or not with their

children??? Or if anyone knows WHY this has happened?

> >

> > Thanks as always!

> > Carissa

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

The test strips only test PH. For my son, I think his pH was off because of the

acidic byproducts produced by an overgrowth of bad bacteria.

Flagyl is an antibiotic commonly prescribed for small intestine bacterial

overgrowth(SIBO). I know alot of people are afraid of antibiotics; I am too.

But we tried 9 months of just SCD and herbs, and it seemed to be getting worse.

Stool sample test didn't show anything unusual. There are tests a GI Dr. can do

to determine if you have SIBO (like a hydrogen breath test). The tests are

difficult to do with a toddler. Our pediatric GI prescribed Flagyl without the

tests, based on the the lack of improvement in my son's digestion. We were

still stage one foods, after 9 months, and he couldn't tolerate sweet stuff like

honey or bananas. There was lots of undigested food and loose stools almost

always. He also had frequent inflammation from yeast around his bottom. SIBO is

common after the digestive system is damaged by celiac disease. We gave extra

S.Boulardii and acidophilus along with the antibiotics.

After the Flagyl, his digestion greatly improved, as well as a normalization to

PH, and less frequent urination. I think it was because of all of the bad bugs

that were killed off. After Flagyl, for 2-3 months, I used Kirkman Biofilm

defense nightly and rotated oil of oregano, olive leaf extract, grapefruit seed

extract. I also gave him S.Boulardii 3x a day for about a month.

I don't know alot about balancing PH. Much of what I've learned has been from

the message boards at Yahoo! Groups Pecanbread and Vitamin K. And my own Google

searches from there. My son's ph was also helped by the electrolyte drink and

Epsom salt baths.

Besides SCD, I also give him amino acids, multivitamin, DHA, vitamin D. He can

now eat all stages of SCD.

Good luck. I know all of this new information is confusing, especially when

you're already stressed with your kid's health.

-heather

wrote:

>

> So other than SCDiet, what else are you doing? I think we definitely have

those issues (the bacteria, too acidic, etc.). I'm actually attending a

workshop this week on balancing our ph levels via diet. But it sounds like, for

you, that wasn't enough? So what exactly is Flagyl? And how would I know if I

should consider that with my son or not?

>

> Oh, and do the test strips just tell if your ph is off or not, or does it also

give indication as to your bad bacteria levels as well?

>

> Thanks ! I'm learning so much! =)

> Carissa

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Since we've started the diet (about 1.5 months ago now), I've noticed a

serious increase in the amount/frequency that my son urinates. Is this

normal??? His bowels have become more solid, which is great (and was keeping us

from potty training), but now I'm hesitating to potty training because of his

frequency to go pee! I don't mind it, as long as it's normal and healthy. I

just didn't know if anyone else had the same thing happen or not with their

children??? Or if anyone knows WHY this has happened?

> > >

> > > Thanks as always!

> > > Carissa

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Carissa,

I'm not telling you to do the Vitamin K protocol, but on that protocol we work

hard to get pH where it needs to be. We don't restrict food. Regular SCD is

recommended.

Here's what we do:

baking soda baths with 8 cups of baking soda (large bags sold at Costco/Sams

Club)

a lower-sodium version of Elaine's electrolyte drink daily; drink on an empty

stomach or sip throughout the day, but not at meals (I can post the lower-sodium

modifications, if you want)

supplemental phosphorus (Angstrom liquid; one source is www.kornax.com)

HTH,

, mom to

>

> So other than SCDiet, what else are you doing? I think we definitely have

those issues (the bacteria, too acidic, etc.). I'm actually attending a

workshop this week on balancing our ph levels via diet.

[Guest guest]

, why are you doing the vit k protocol?UC-C 12/09SCD 1/10Daily, CLO, Magnesium, bromelain, acidophilus Mom of 2 crazy monkeys :-)

Hi, Carissa,

I'm not telling you to do the Vitamin K protocol, but on that protocol we work hard to get pH where it needs to be. We don't restrict food. Regular SCD is recommended.

Here's what we do:

baking soda baths with 8 cups of baking soda (large bags sold at Costco/Sams Club)

a lower-sodium version of Elaine's electrolyte drink daily; drink on an empty stomach or sip throughout the day, but not at meals (I can post the lower-sodium modifications, if you want)

supplemental phosphorus (Angstrom liquid; one source is www.kornax.com)

HTH,

, mom to

>

> So other than SCDiet, what else are you doing? I think we definitely have those issues (the bacteria, too acidic, etc.). I'm actually attending a workshop this week on balancing our ph levels via diet.

[Guest guest]

is on the autism spectrum. As much as I think SCD is all some autistic

kids need, it was not all needed. He apparently has a

calcium-processing problem and an oxalate problem that we didn't even know

about. DAN suggested LOD (she was stabbing in the dark; just knew wasn't

making much progress with his behavior) but Patty D on Pecanbread advised that

the Vitamin K protocol was better because you didn't need to eliminate more

(healthful) foods. So we tried it, and amazingly it was just what needed

to stop his meltdowns, random verbalizations, and strange ideas that others

(mainly teachers) were trying to control his life and would give him totally

unreasonable punishments for no good reason.

, mom to

>

> , why are you doing the vit k protocol?

>

>

> UC-C 12/09

> SCD 1/10

> Daily, CLO, Magnesium, bromelain, acidophilus

> Mom of 2 crazy monkeys :-)

[Guest guest]

What is the vitamin K protocol?

(Besides, that is, giving vitamin K.) <g>

I've heard about it for a while, but don't know what it is.

Mara

> is on the autism spectrum. As much as I think SCD is all some autistic

kids need, it was not all needed. He apparently has a

calcium-processing problem and an oxalate problem that we didn't even know

about. DAN suggested LOD (she was stabbing in the dark; just knew wasn't

making much progress with his behavior) but Patty D on Pecanbread advised that

the Vitamin K protocol was better because you didn't need to eliminate more

(healthful) foods. So we tried it, and amazingly it was just what needed

to stop his meltdowns, random verbalizations, and strange ideas that others

(mainly teachers) were trying to control his life and would give him totally

unreasonable punishments for no good reason.

[Guest guest]

So how do you KNOW if your child has SIBO or needs Vit K Protocol??? I don't

think has the problems y'all are describing (definitely not autistic,

although does have SPD; and bowels have improved greatly on SCD, although we're

still seeing some issues there, just not as bad as before). I'm so nervous to

go to any doctors, specialists or not, because the first doctor we went to

(initially for his long list of food allergies) provided NO help! And I'm so

fearful that we'll end up going to some gastro person who thinks we're crazy for

doing the SCD, and just wants to put him on some meds or do all these

unnecessary tests that traumatize the poor child, and don't even indicate the

" true " problem!(happened to my husband, don't want that for our son) So yeah,

I'm shooting in the dark with all this stuff, which probably is not the best

thing to do, but finances and fear of " bad docs " keep me here. I just want my

son to be healthy. I want all of us to be healthy! We all have issues, and I'm

desperate to get them " fixed " . I think right now our biggest issues are my

constipation and then 's not-completely-solid-BMs, but more solid than they

used to be! I've noticed cheese and butter really throw him over the edge as

far as his sensory issues and creating looser bowels, so we're off that for now.

Although I REALLY want to be able to have those things (at least the cheese)

because it seems like our meals are very limited without the ability to have

cheese. He also is still having allergic reactions to eggs, although the first

month of the diet he could handle them for the first time ever! All the sudden

now though he's breaking out in hives again. He's also been very " sniffly "

(runny nose, coughing, sneezing). Which tells me his immune system is

compromised, which tells me bad things are going on in the gut (since that is

where most of the immune system gets its strength from). He was doing so good,

and now I feel like we're almost back to where we were (not completely, but

close) before we even got on the diet. Which leads me to ask the question -

Then why are we doing this? If I didn't enjoy the fact that we're off of all

sugars and corn and potatoes (which I'm convinced all are horrible evils from a

nutritional standpoint) then we probably would have already reverted back to our

old eating habits. But again, there WAS progress! So I know something went

well for a while! But no matter how hard we try, we can't get back there.

Maybe we just haven't given it enough time yet (as far as being off of all the

things that irritated him... like the cheese we ate a week ago to test if he

could handle it, and obviously, he can't). Any thoughts? Anyone? I don't mind

getting him tested for certain things or doing extra things in addition to the

SCD, but I don't know what (if anything) he needs, and am afraid of going to a

quack doctor who knows less than I do about all this.

*whew* Okay, thanks for letting me get all that out!!! LOL

Carissa

> >

> > So other than SCDiet, what else are you doing? I think we definitely have

those issues (the bacteria, too acidic, etc.). I'm actually attending a

workshop this week on balancing our ph levels via diet.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Carissa,

It sounds to me like you need to move more slowly with SCD and let more healing

occur. Don't rush into adding eggs and cheese. I only mentioned Vit K protocol

so you would know where the recommendations came from (to help with the frequent

urination, which could be a sign of an acidic pH.)

Down the road some of the Enhanced SCD (fermented foods and broth) could help,

too. (See www.pecanbread.com)

, mom to

>

> So how do you KNOW if your child has SIBO or needs Vit K Protocol???

[Guest guest]

> He was doing so good, and now I feel like we're almost b!

> ack to where we were (not completely, but close) before we even got on the

diet. Which leads me to ask the question - Then why are we doing this? If I

didn't enjoy the fact that we're off of all sugars and corn and potatoes (which

I'm convinced all are horrible evils from a nutritional standpoint) then we

probably would have already reverted back to our old eating habits. But again,

there WAS progress! So I know something went well for a while! But no matter

how hard we try, we can't get back there. Maybe we just haven't given it enough

time yet (as far as being off of all the things that irritated him... like the

cheese we ate a week ago to test if he could handle it, and obviously, he

can't). Any thoughts? Anyone? I don't mind getting him tested for certain

things or doing extra things in addition to the SCD, but I don't know what (if

anything) he needs, and am afraid of going to a quack doctor who knows less than

I do about all this.

On SCD we say 2 steps forward, one step back - that's what progress looks like

on this diet.

Sometimes it's actually more like 1 3/4s step back.

If you've had the early progress, you know some form of the diet works for you,

but it is a matter

of tweaking things until there is improvement again. But there are also periods

where there is no

improvement - where things plateau - likely because some new bacterial/yeast

overgrowth

has occurred to make things difficult.

Things to do:

1) join the list at pecanbread.com so you can talk to other mothers of kids with

symptoms, who

are kid experts.

2) Sometimes it takes more than a week to recover from food experiments. If the

boy's nose is

runny, that's from the dairy. It can take a few weeks - depending on

sensitivity.

3) Trial a small amount of egg yolks separately (most people react to egg

whites).

4) What are you doing about probiotics and s. boulardii? Have you tried coconut

yogurt if he can't

do dairy yogurt? Or fermented vegetables? If you are not giving him

probiotics, there is even more

likelihood of something bad taking back the neighborhood, causing immune system

problems

all over again.

5) What are you feeding him?

Mara

[Guest guest]

Carissa,

It's OK to go slowly. It's even generally a good idea. It isn't

necessary at all to think you have to have all the legal foods, and

especially not early, IMO, that means the first year. Many of us

have to tailor the food list to what works and when. You have seen

some improvement and that's wonderful. It shows the diet is working.

Just remember that achieving a healed gut is a slow business. Two

steps forward, one step back. The step back does not mean it isn't

working though it's always discouraging. I tried eggs and cheese and

butter/ghee about six months ago, which was about 9 months into the

diet. I was delighted that I didn't seem to have digestive woes from

them, unless I ate so much cheese I got constipated. But, a few

months later I had to start admitting to myself that all the hideous

rashes I have either acquired or in one area, got worse, are from

these. I am heartbroken: cheese is my favorite protein and I haven't

been able to have it for nearly 30 years. But I've got to get a

handle on the rashes! So I'm back to nothing but chicken for my

protein, and that's OK for now. I imagine someday I'll get eggs and

cheese back. You can do the diet without them. It's not as

interesting as far as variety goes, but healing is the important thing.