Re: Choosing Probiotics

[Guest guest]

At 09:29 PM 9/21/2010, you wrote:

Oh, and right now I am not doing

yogurt because I have M in my D as well and dairy seems to make it worse,

so I am desperate for some bugs.

Custom Probiotics has quality stuff, and the owner will be happy to sell

you all sorts of SCD-illegal probiotics because he just doesn't believe

that it's possible to get well on Elaine's recommendations.

If you'd prefer not to do dairy at this time, make almond-milk or

coconut-milk yogurt.

Can't stop you from doing what you think you need to do, but if you

continue to have issues and do not see the improvement you hope for, I'd

strongly recommend that you pull the illegal probiotics if you choose to

use them. I know, from personal experience, what such an illegal

supplement can do to one's healing.

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

Babette the Foundling Beagle

[Guest guest]

Remember

that we absorb a lot of bacterial strains from our food and drinks (and air),

so our gut ecology is diverse as it repopulates even though we are just taking

one strain in our probiotic supplement or two to three strains in our yogurt.

Remember

also that when it comes to engineered probiotic strains, there are a lot of

unknowns. Not much evidence accumulating on long-term use for many of the

probiotic strains that have appeared in supplements within the past few years.

Remember

also that it is easy to develop a toxicity or overdose from a supplement.

And supplements don’t have as many quality controls or standards as

prescription medications, so choose your supplier carefully.

Elaine

did find plenty of evidence to support her recommendation to avoid the bifidus

strains and use L. Acidophilus, especially during the first years on SCD when

are dealing with a compromised immune system and gut dysbiosis.

Of

course you can choose to use a supplement or yogurt starter that contains

bacterial strains other than what Elaine approved of. Just be aware of

the risks, and pay close attention to your body’s reactions and

signals. Be ready to pull the illegal probiotic if you notice increased

symptoms or experience a delay in healing.

Kim M.

SCD 6+ years

Sphincter of Oddi dysfunction 7 years

neurological & spinal deterioration 4 years

[Guest guest]

Good points both, Marilyn and Kim. I didn't think about getting any other

strains from foods and environment, but that is true. I guess I have decided to

stay with what I have been using. I DO know from experience that even among

excellent acidophilous brands I can have mild issues. For example, I do better

on GI ProHealth's than I do on Lyosan's. I know others have sometimes tried

different brands and have had trouble. The last thing I want to do is invite

trouble! I think what began to get me concerned that maybe my body was " growing

immune " to the probiotics I have been using is that in high doses, they have

always been able to " fix " any little issue, but in trying that this time, it

didn't work. Just in panic mode, I suppose!! Thanks for your input ladies!

UC/C

LDN

SCd

>

>

>

>

>

> Remember that we absorb a lot of bacterial strains from our food and drinks

> (and air), so our gut ecology is diverse as it repopulates even though we

> are just taking one strain in our probiotic supplement or two to three

> strains in our yogurt.

>

>

>

> Remember also that when it comes to engineered probiotic strains, there are

> a lot of unknowns. Not much evidence accumulating on long-term use for many

> of the probiotic strains that have appeared in supplements within the past

> few years.

>

>

>

> Remember also that it is easy to develop a toxicity or overdose from a

> supplement. And supplements don't have as many quality controls or

> standards as prescription medications, so choose your supplier carefully.

>

>

>

> Elaine did find plenty of evidence to support her recommendation to avoid

> the bifidus strains and use L. Acidophilus, especially during the first

> years on SCD when are dealing with a compromised immune system and gut

> dysbiosis.

>

>

>

> Of course you can choose to use a supplement or yogurt starter that contains

> bacterial strains other than what Elaine approved of. Just be aware of the

> risks, and pay close attention to your body's reactions and signals. Be

> ready to pull the illegal probiotic if you notice increased symptoms or

> experience a delay in healing.

>

>

>

> Kim M.

>

> SCD 6+ years

>

> Sphincter of Oddi dysfunction 7 years

>

> neurological & spinal deterioration 4 years

>

[Guest guest]

" I am looking at Natren and Custom Probiotics for a change of gut scenery.

Anyone have any input about either of these? "

, I use Custom Probiotics Yogurt Starter (L Acidophilus, S. Thermophilus,

and L.Bulgaricus) and I'm very pleased with it. So far I've had what I think are

excellent batches of yogurt---very dependable. And it includes all the main

strains.

Phyllis

CD

[Guest guest]

> " Custom Probiotics has quality stuff, and the

> owner will be happy to sell you all sorts of

> SCD-illegal probiotics because he just doesn't

> believe that it's possible to get well on Elaine's recommendations. "

Marilyn, It's no longer necessary to speak to Harry at Custom Probiotics.

You can just choose your product and do it all on the internet. I do remember

having the unpleasant " discussions " with Harry though, and am pleased it's in

the past.

BTW it's Yogurt Starter #1.

Phyllis

[Guest guest]

,

I don't know how long you've been on SCD, but another thought is to try kefir.

It's advanced and it seems like there is some controvery with it, but it

certainly has a broad variety of probiotics strains. According to Dom, who is

like the world's unofficial authority on kefir, brewing the kefir for 48-hours

versus the usual 24 will ferment out the lactose. I'm 1.5 years SCD and I think

around the 2-year mark I'll probably add kefir, taking it very slowly, brewing

per Dom's recommendations for no lactose, and taking the additional step of

adding whatever that liquid lactase product that can be added to milk products

to remove the lactose. Do note that Elaine had concerns with kefir not only

because of the remaining lactose, which is substantial (I think 10% of the

original) if brewed for 24-hours only, but because of the potential for

cross-reactivity with all of the yeast species.

You can find more on kefire at Dom's site here:

http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html

Seth at Healing Crow also has info, but I can't remember where his site has

gone.

Good luck,

Ellen

>> For several years I have been using GI proHealth L. Acidophilous and cycles

of S. Boulardii. However, I have been reading a lot since this little " flare "

of mine began and I am thinking it would be better to have a variety of bugs.

>

> Guerin

> UC/C

> LDN

> SCd

>

[Guest guest]

> " Custom Probiotics has quality stuff, and the

> owner will be happy to sell you all sorts of

> SCD-illegal probiotics. "

Marilyn, I remember also that Harry used to be " difficult " to deal with,

however you don't need to speak with him now because you are able to get the

products you select via the web. No phone call necessary. I believe there are

two legal starters. I have used the first one and am very happy with it.

http://www.customprobiotics.com/custom-probiotics-yogurt-starter-1.htm

http://www.customprobiotics.com/custom-probiotics-yogurt-starter-2.htm

Phyllis

CD

[Guest guest]

At 09:02 AM 9/22/2010, you wrote:

Just in panic mode, I suppose!!

Thanks for your input ladies!

,

There's a tendency, when we're trying to work on our health, to throw

anything and everything at the problem and see if something -- anything!

-- works.

The problem is, if you throw a bunch of things at the same time, you

don't know which ones are efficacious and which ones might worsen the

issue.

There's a bunch of research out there on probiotics -- I try to read up

on it from time to time, but sometimes, the research is contradictory.

I had a really bad reaction to bifidus on two different occasions, and as

a consequence, I worry when people want to try bifidus or

bifido-strains.

There are other strains out there that look promising (and it's times

like this that I really miss Elaine!), but the thing that Elaine noted is

that it's best, if we can, to get our probiotics from whole foods.

Acidophilus has a long, well-documented history of being beneficial. S.

boulardii had enough convincing research that Elaine approved it. (And

I'm grateful that she did.)

One thing which some people do is follow SCD scrupulously and when

they've achieved significant healing, then they can cautiously test some

of these strains to see if they will work for their system.

My apologies if I seemed a bit curt over the mention of Jini Patel, but

the woman charges more for one hour of her time than I'm likely to make

in a month -- and I've spent a bunch of hours researching and writing to

people who got confused over her method or SCD, and then had problems --

hours that I don't get paid for since I'm a volunteer for SCD. (I do paid

SCD consultations, but I sure as heck don't think of pay when someone's

hurting!)

After 9 years SCD, yes, there are a few things I do which aren't SCD, but

if I have a high stress situation like the cancer surgery two years ago

or my Mom's death last year, I always return to my SCD roots until things

are stable again.

So, I can understand your maybe wanting to go dairy-free for a bit to see

if that helps the mucous issues. I can also appreciate your concern about

keeping the population of good bugs up. My on-going faith is the fact

that SCD has been around for 60 years and has a pretty darn good track

record. So even when things get a bit rough, I try not to panic.

Hope things go better for you soon. One of these days, I have to try

coconut or almond milk yogurt. <g>

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

Babette the Foundling Beagle

[Guest guest]

At 10:05 AM 9/22/2010, you wrote:

Marilyn, It's no longer

necessary to speak to Harry at Custom Probiotics. You can just choose

your product and do it all on the internet. I do remember having the

unpleasant " discussions " with Harry though, and am pleased it's

in the past.

BTW it's Yogurt Starter #1.

That's good to know. I may not agree with the owner's views, but I can't

deny that he has quality products.

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

Babette the Foundling Beagle

[Guest guest]

At 10:54 AM 9/22/2010, you wrote:

According to Dom, who is like

the world's unofficial authority on kefir, brewing the kefir for 48-hours

versus the usual 24 will ferment out the lactose.

Kefir can be good stuff, although I think you're wise to wait until your

two-year mark.

It's another one of those things I want to try one of these days, just

for some additional variety.

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

Babette the Foundling Beagle

[Guest guest]

At 02:09 PM 9/22/2010, you wrote:

Marilyn, I remember also that

Harry used to be " difficult " to deal with, however you don't

need to speak with him now because you are able to get the products you

select via the web. No phone call necessary. I believe there are two

legal starters. I have used the first one and am very happy with

it.

http://www.customprobiotics.com/custom-probiotics-yogurt-starter-1.htm

http://www.customprobiotics.com/custom-probiotics-yogurt-starter-2.htm

Yogurt starter #1 is legal. It contains L. Acidophilus, S. Thermophilus,

L. Bulgaricus.

Yogurt starter #2 is emphatically not legal, as it contains It consists

of L. Bulgaricus, S. Thermophilus, L. Acidophilus, L. Casei and B.

Longum. If he'd just have left that dratted bifidus out, #2 would

be an excellent starter, combining the best of the Yogourmet and

GIProHealth starters.

Thanks for letting me know that one doesn't have to deal with a phone

order any more. Custom Probiotics are high quality, but I didn't like

having to argue about my choices in order to place an order.

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

Babette the Foundling Beagle

[Guest guest]

I should report that the almond milk yogurt I tried last week cultured

just perfectly the first time. I used almond flour to make the milk

and that, I think, kept it nice and creamy. I used Yogourmet

Starter and I am not going to use that one again! I have a nasty

rash and stuffiness, which have been lifelong reactions to milk products,

so I looked at the box (a little late, !) and sure enough, it lists

" milk solids " . But that's OK, I don't have to use that

one. And obviously, the Yogourmet will be fine for anyone without

extreme casein problems and it certainly does make non-dairy yogurt just

fine.

Hope things go better for you soon. One of these days, I have to try coconut or almond milk yogurt. <g>

— Marilyn

[Guest guest]

Thanks for straightening me out, Marilyn. Your last sentence reminded me that

he can make up any combination of cultures that you select.

" Please note that we can add other probiotic strains such as L. Casei and/or B.

Bifidum to our yogurt starter upon request. " Of course we dont want the latter!

Phyllis

http://www.customprobiotics.com/custom-probiotics-yogurt-starter-1.htm>http://ww\

w.customprobiotics.com/custom-probiotics-yogurt-starter-1.htm

http://www.customprobiotics.com/custom-probiotics-yogurt-starter-2.htm

Yogurt starter #1 is legal. It contains L.

Acidophilus, S. Thermophilus, L. Bulgaricus.

Yogurt starter #2 is emphatically not legal, as

it contains It consists of L. Bulgaricus, S.

Thermophilus, L. Acidophilus, L. Casei and B.

Longum. If he'd just have left that dratted

combining the best of the Yogourmet and GIProHealth starters.

[Guest guest]

At 03:23 PM 9/22/2010, you wrote:

I should report that the almond

milk yogurt I tried last week cultured just perfectly the first

time. I used almond flour to make the milk and that, I think, kept

it nice and creamy.

Did you use a particular recipe, or proportion of almond flour to water?

I'm betting a Vita-Mix would make good almond milk.

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

Babette the Foundling Beagle

[Guest guest]

Ok, so Marilyn, if you were to do kefir, what would you use to make it? I have

been contemplating and have heard different ways of making it in the GAPS/SCD

worlds.

Dawn

> >According to Dom, who is like the world's

> >unofficial authority on kefir, brewing the kefir

> >for 48-hours versus the usual 24 will ferment out the lactose.

>

> Kefir can be good stuff, although I think you're

> wise to wait until your two-year mark.

>

> It's another one of those things I want to try

> one of these days, just for some additional variety.

>

>

> — Marilyn

> New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

> Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

> Darn Good SCD Cook

> No Human Children

> Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

> Babette the Foundling Beagle

>

[Guest guest]

At 04:04 PM 9/22/2010, you wrote:

" Please note that we can

add other probiotic strains such as L. Casei and/or B. Bifidum to our

yogurt starter upon request. " Of course we dont want the

latter!

Yep -- so if you like the l. casei from the GIProHealth starter, you

could have it added to the Custom Probiotics #1. That's good to

know.

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

Babette the Foundling Beagle

[Guest guest]

At 04:53 PM 9/22/2010, you wrote:

Ok, so Marilyn, if you were to

do kefir, what would you use to make it? I have been contemplating and

have heard different ways of making it in the GAPS/SCD

worlds.

Answer: I don't know, because I haven't had a chance to research it yet.

However, I respect what Seth has to say about fermentation, and Dom is

apparently very knowledgeable about making kefir, so I'd start

there.

—

Marilyn

New

Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

Babette the Foundling Beagle

[Guest guest]

Hi.Where did you get the recipe for almond yogurt?I should report that the almond milk yogurt I tried last week cultured just perfectly the first time. I used almond flour to make the milk and that, I think, kept it nice and creamy. I used Yogourmet Starter and I am not going to use that one again! I have a nasty rash and stuffiness, which have been lifelong reactions to milk products, so I looked at the box (a little late, !) and sure enough, it lists "milk solids". But that's OK, I don't have to use that one. And obviously, the Yogourmet will be fine for anyone without extreme casein problems and it certainly does make non-dairy yogurt just fine.Hope things go better for you soon. One of thesedays, I have to try coconut or almond milk yogurt. <g>— Marilyn

[Guest guest]

Me too!! Yes please!! I want to know where to find the recipes for almond

yogurt and coconut yogurt that people have had GOOD results with. )

>

> > I should report that the almond milk yogurt I tried last week

> > cultured just perfectly the first time. I used almond flour to make

> > the milk and that, I think, kept it nice and creamy. I used

> > Yogourmet Starter and I am not going to use that one again! I have

> > a nasty rash and stuffiness, which have been lifelong reactions to

> > milk products, so I looked at the box (a little late, !) and

> > sure enough, it lists " milk solids " . But that's OK, I don't have to

> > use that one. And obviously, the Yogourmet will be fine for anyone

> > without extreme casein problems and it certainly does make non-dairy

> > yogurt just fine.

> >

> >

> >

> > Hope things go better for you soon. One of these

> > days, I have to try coconut or almond milk yogurt. <g>

> > — Marilyn

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Marilyn!

> >Ok, so Marilyn, if you were to do kefir, what

> >would you use to make it? I have been

> >contemplating and have heard different ways of

> >making it in the GAPS/SCD worlds.

>

> Answer: I don't know, because I haven't had a

> chance to research it yet. However, I respect

> what Seth has to say about fermentation, and Dom

> is apparently very knowledgeable about making kefir, so I'd start there.

>

>

> — Marilyn

> New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

> Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

> Darn Good SCD Cook

> No Human Children

> Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

> Babette the Foundling Beagle

>

[Guest guest]

Why is it that we are all sensitive to grains, gluten, soy, corn, sugar, potatoes, wheat, dairy (some of us), casein (some of us)?I am also allergic to peanuts, can't do vinegar or pork, and melons and some vegetables.why, why, why.Why doesn't affect the rest of the population?Are we just worry worts with stressful lives (former) that bring on these problems?It's not fair.Me too!! Yes please!! I want to know where to find the recipes for almond yogurt and coconut yogurt that people have had GOOD results with. )> > > I should report that the almond milk yogurt I tried last week > > cultured just perfectly the first time. I used almond flour to make > > the milk and that, I think, kept it nice and creamy. I used > > Yogourmet Starter and I am not going to use that one again! I have > > a nasty rash and stuffiness, which have been lifelong reactions to > > milk products, so I looked at the box (a little late, !) and > > sure enough, it lists "milk solids". But that's OK, I don't have to > > use that one. And obviously, the Yogourmet will be fine for anyone > > without extreme casein problems and it certainly does make non-dairy > > yogurt just fine.> > > >> >> > Hope things go better for you soon. One of these> > days, I have to try coconut or almond milk yogurt. <g>> > — Marilyn> >> >>

[Guest guest]

I sort of used a recipe. One was posted earlier in the month, by

Lyndell, probably on the GAPS group. Her recipe was as

follows:

1 - 1/3 cups almonds (blanched and peeled)

2 tablespoons organic honey

3 cups warm water

yogurt starter

Blend blanched and peeled almonds and honey and water for 10

minutes. Strain milk through cheesecloth, squeezing all the milk

out. Pour 1 cup of the milk into yogurt maker and mix. Then pout

the rest of the milk in and stir together.

Pour into yogurt maker and set for 7 hours. Place in the frig for at

least 5 hours, then drip through cheese cloth.

I will say I don't get much yogurt out of this though. I found this

recipe on the SCD site (unspecified). The creamier the milk the

more yogurt I get.

Lyndell

________________________

OK. Here's how I did it. I didn't have that much in the way

of whole or sliced almonds nor was I anxious to blanch and pop them that

day so I used almond flour. I used a little less, reasoning that flour

doesn't have air spaces like the nuts would, perhaps 1 -1/4 cups. I

figured it wouldn't matter if it was a little thicker and

creamier. I used my ancient Osterizer blender and put the almond

flour in with perhaps a cup and a half of filtered warm water. I blended

for about two minutes which was plenty. Then I added my sweetener (I used

a mashed banana here) and filled the blender jar up to about a quart (by

now I had milk all over the inside and couldn't read the markings).

Whizzed it again.

Since I used flour of course I didn't strain it as there were no

particles to strain out. Mixed in the Yogourmet Starter as

instructed. I then put it in the little jars and I think I

would have been better off if I'd heated the milk back up a bit as it

took some hours and eventually a heavy towel doubled over the top to get

it to temperature. This is the Pacific Northwest and my interior

temperature is not Marilyn's 80! More like 68, 70 at the

most.

I put it in the yogurt maker about noon. It was all firm long before

bedtime but I wasn't clear if the sucrose in the starter would actually

be used up so I left it overnight. I think it would have been OK. I

took it out in the morning, about 20 hours, and BOY was it sour.

The banana turned a bit brown, sort of brown fluff on top of each jar so

I'll use honey next time. Other than being awfully sour, it was

good yogurt.

But, I've ordered GI Pro Start after Joe answered my question and assured

me that they have nothing whatsoever in their starter except the

probiotics, so I won't have to worry about the " milk

solids " . The awful rash on my hands is some better even just

today without consuming it.

On the GI Pro Health site they have instructions for both

milk and nut milk yogurts. And they recommend using more starter for nut

milks. I will probably do that next time though what I did certainly

worked.

And for the moment that's all I know about nut milk yogurt.

Somewhere I printed out a recipe for sesame milk yogurt and I want to try

that, too.

Yes, I'm sure the Vita-Mix would make very good almond milk. You

might not even need to strain it.

Did you use a particular recipe, or proportion of almond flour to water? I'm betting a Vita-Mix would make good almond

milk.

— Marilyn

[Guest guest]

I just posted all this in another note.

Hi.

Where did you get the recipe for almond yogurt?

[Guest guest]

Well, alas, life isn't fair. I suspect that some of us have an

inborn potential weakness in this area, some get here after illnesses and

especially those treated with antibiotics, etc etc. And I think far

more " normal " people actually have some gut troubles that they

either don't know about or won't admit to, not if they have to change

their diet. And don't forget, other people can and often do have other

problems that are terrible, too.

We can only go on from where we are and fortunately with the diet, much

is possible in the way of improvement1

Why is it that we are all sensitive to grains, gluten, soy, corn, sugar, potatoes, wheat, dairy (some of us), casein (some of us)?

I am also allergic to peanuts, can't do vinegar or pork, and melons and some vegetables.

why, why, why.

Why doesn't affect the rest of the population?

Are we just worry worts with stressful lives (former) that bring on these problems?

It's not fair.

[Guest guest]

Melon allergy is a ragweed-related allergy. See below. The funny thing is, I mostly got itching in the mouth with melons and never banana, cucumbers, or zucchini. After years of not eating melons, I can eat a little once in a while with no reaction.  Since being on SCD and eating local honey, my spring hayfever is gone.

Ragweed (weed): melons (watermelon, cantaloupe, honeydew), bananas, cucumbers and zucchini.--

 

Why is it that we are all sensitive to grains, gluten, soy, corn, sugar, potatoes, wheat, dairy (some of us), casein (some of us)?I am also allergic to peanuts, can't do vinegar or pork, and melons and some vegetables.

why, why, why.Why doesn't affect the rest of the population?Are we just worry worts with stressful lives (former) that bring on these problems?It's not fair.

Me too!! Yes please!! I want to know where to find the recipes for almond yogurt and coconut yogurt that people have had GOOD results with. )

> > > I should report that the almond milk yogurt I tried last week 

> > cultured just perfectly the first time. I used almond flour to make > > the milk and that, I think, kept it nice and creamy. I used > > Yogourmet Starter and I am not going to use that one again! I have 

> > a nasty rash and stuffiness, which have been lifelong reactions to > > milk products, so I looked at the box (a little late, !) and > > sure enough, it lists " milk solids " . But that's OK, I don't have to 

> > use that one. And obviously, the Yogourmet will be fine for anyone > > without extreme casein problems and it certainly does make non-dairy > > yogurt just fine.

> > > >> >> > Hope things go better for you soon. One of these> > days, I have to try coconut or almond milk yogurt. <g>> > — Marilyn> >> >

>