Re: No Blame & Certainly NO Friggin' Shame!

December 3, 2003

In a message dated 12/3/2003 3:36:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, DisDog@...

writes:

Shame is a

weight that NONE of us should carry!

===============================

Beautiful sentiment Lucille. Thanks.

Fay Bayuk

**300/168

10/23/01

Dr.

Open RNY 150 cm

Click for My Profile

http://obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/profile.phtml?N=Bayuk951061008

December 3, 2003

In a message dated 12/3/03 2:36:49 PM Central Standard Time, DisDog@...

writes:

> Weight is NOT a moral issue, nor is it a measure of our goodness as human

> beings.

----------

I'm right there with you, but there is a long history that says

otherwise. After all, " gluttony " is one of the Seven Deadly Sins. Which, makes

it

a " moral " judgment. We're the moral equivalent of murderers.

As obese people we are viewed not only as people with no self control

(like criminals) but as people who take more than our fair share (another type

of " theft " ).

Society has a long way to go -- it's hard for us to not fall into the

mindset that's out there.

Beth

Houston, TX

VBG - Dr. Srungaram

05/31/00 - 314 lbs.

11/01/02 - Abdominoplasty

11/29/02 - 160 lbs.

5'10 "

December 3, 2003

Well, it SHOULD not be shameful, and it SHOULD not be a moral issue, but our

society has certainly made it a moral issue that we should feel ashamed about.

I can understand how difficult it is to NOT feel ashamed. It takes a lot of

hard work and talking to oneself and forgiving oneself for something that

shouldn't need forgiveness in the first place. We did not ask for these genes or

these hormones or these screwed-up body responses. But we (a lot of us anyway)

feel responsible just the same, bcuz that's what we've been taught by all the

docs and " normal " people and Madison Ave and the movies, ad nauseum.

Truthfully, how many people do you know who don't hold the obese person in some

kind of

disdain? I mean, TRULY don't, not just give it lip service.

Carol A

------------------------------------

In a message dated 12/3/2003 2:36:36 PM Central Standard Time, DisDog@...

writes:

> Weight is NOT a moral issue, nor is it a measure of our goodness as human

> beings.

> And while gaining weight can be infuriating, painful, saddening, maddening,

> frustrating, and a slew of other things, IT IS NOT SHAMEFUL! Shame is a

> weight that NONE of us should carry!

December 3, 2003

Interesting, at the time of my sugrery, I had the gluttony discussion

with someone.

There is gluttony. And there is obesity. Not all gluttons are obese.

Not all obese people are gluttons.

That goes back to the days when it was said that diabetes was the

punishment for eating too much sugar.

A disease is a disease. Of course, there ARE eating disorders, not

all of which are gluttonous, either.

But yeah, you're right. The stigma remains.

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

Re: No Blame & Certainly NO Friggin' Shame!

> In a message dated 12/3/03 2:36:49 PM Central Standard Time,

DisDog@...

> writes:

>

> > Weight is NOT a moral issue, nor is it a measure of our goodness

as human

> > beings.

> ----------

>

> I'm right there with you, but there is a long history that

says

> otherwise. After all, " gluttony " is one of the Seven Deadly Sins.

Which, makes it

> a " moral " judgment. We're the moral equivalent of murderers.

> As obese people we are viewed not only as people with no self

control

> (like criminals) but as people who take more than our fair share

(another type

> of " theft " ).

> Society has a long way to go -- it's hard for us to not fall

into the

> mindset that's out there.

>

> Beth

> Houston, TX

> VBG - Dr. Srungaram

> 05/31/00 - 314 lbs.

> 11/01/02 - Abdominoplasty

> 11/29/02 - 160 lbs.

> 5'10 "

>

December 4, 2003

> Truthfully, how many people do you know who don't hold the obese person

in some kind of

> disdain? I mean, TRULY don't, not just give it lip service.

>

> Carol A

> ------------------------------------

One thing though, if you are aware that if you eat x amount of food or this or

that type of food and know the consequence is obesity, aren't you in some

way responsible? Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of the research that

points to triggers, etc. causing eating and overindulgance.

I am guilty of being lazy about exercising. I am guilty of rationalizing before

surgery what I was eating by saying it was genes+thyroid condition that

caused my obesity. Truthfully, I didn't eat healthy, I didn't exercise and I

knew

by age 18 I had a genetic predisposition toward obesity. I wasn't gluttonous

all the time, but on " special " occasions I did overindulge. Knowing all this, I

sat around feeling sorry for myself when diagnosed with a thyroid tumor and

immediately used that to justify my obesity. Beyond that point, I knew what I

was up against and still did nothing.

My point is this, there is a fine line between not feeling guilty about the

cards

your were dealt and understanding that there is a tendancy to rationalize

what we do when we know what the consequences are going to be. We don't

have the luxury of getting eat candy, carbs, etc and walk away the same size.

It sucks and I hate it, but accepting that truth will help me understand that I

determine my destiny, not hormones. Now, I am going to kick myself in the

butt!

M

December 4, 2003

As much as we want to wish it otherwise, society does look upon the

obese with disdain, or should I say, doesn't look..how often do

normal sized people look an obese person in the eye? And why is it

OK to tell fat jokes, or make fun of fat people in the movies? Its

because it is still an accepted part of society to do so. No normal

weighted person can understand the depth of despair, the hurt, the

shame, yes, I said shame, that obese people feel. Saying that its

what is on the inside and not the outside that counts is a joke. It

should be that way, but truthfully, its far from it. How many give

you the chance to learn about the beautiful person inside when the

outside is obese? Very, very few...

Interestingly, recently a few tv shows have placed normal weighted

person in fat suits and sent them out in public. The last one I saw

was Average Joe. It gave the normal weighted person a whole new

perspective. On Average Joe, the gorgeous star, Melina said that

normally when she stops to ask a guy for directions, he ends up

hitting on her-she tried this in a fat suit, and most of the guys

wouldn't even stop to talk to her when she asked for help. A few

guys hurled insults at her..she was quite shaken by it. I only wish

that every teenager would have to go thru the same experience. Its a

great exercise to help sensitize others.

I also agree with Diane who says for the most part we bear

responsibility for our obesity. Not everyone can say its all

genetics or a thyroid condition and I only eat 500 calories a day.

Most of us have eating disorders, no self-control, emotional issues,

shame and guilt, unwilling or unable to exercise, know how to eat

right but we don't, etc, etc. Does that excuse the non-obese from

their ridicule, and cruelty towards the obese? Not in the least.

And I'm the first one now to berate someone for their insensitivity

when I see it. Its the least I can do...

Cindy in VA

lap RNY 2/8/02

>

> > Truthfully, how many people do you know who don't hold the obese

person

> in some kind of

> > disdain? I mean, TRULY don't, not just give it lip service.

> >

> > Carol A

> > ------------------------------------

>

> One thing though, if you are aware that if you eat x amount of food

or this or

> that type of food and know the consequence is obesity, aren't you

in some

> way responsible? Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of the

research that

> points to triggers, etc. causing eating and overindulgance.

>

> I am guilty of being lazy about exercising. I am guilty of

rationalizing before

> surgery what I was eating by saying it was genes+thyroid condition

that

> caused my obesity. Truthfully, I didn't eat healthy, I didn't

exercise and I knew

> by age 18 I had a genetic predisposition toward obesity. I wasn't

gluttonous

> all the time, but on " special " occasions I did overindulge. Knowing

all this, I

> sat around feeling sorry for myself when diagnosed with a thyroid

tumor and

> immediately used that to justify my obesity. Beyond that point, I

knew what I

> was up against and still did nothing.

>

> My point is this, there is a fine line between not feeling guilty

about the cards

> your were dealt and understanding that there is a tendancy to

rationalize

> what we do when we know what the consequences are going to be. We

don't

> have the luxury of getting eat candy, carbs, etc and walk away the

same size.

> It sucks and I hate it, but accepting that truth will help me

understand that I

> determine my destiny, not hormones. Now, I am going to kick myself

in the

> butt!

>

> M

December 4, 2003

One thing we can certainly stop is when someone says " kids will be kids "

after a teasing episode happens, I'd correct that right then. No, you teach

kids how to be KIND.

If a little boy or a teen does something sexually inappropriate you hear

" boys will be boys " ....drives me bananas.

While I'm the first to say that one should accept responsibility for their

actions in many things I do not in some cases think obesity rests on their

shoulders for obesity that is clearly clearly genetic. For one, many many

thin ppl eat the same and have nothing to show for it....yes some disease

may strike them later but it usually is not tied to diet or them being

'gluttonous' as it is referred to the fat ppl as if we have the same issues

come up. And I can look back through generations upon generations of my

family and all are obese, it's flat sickening. Could I have done what I'm

doing now diet wise and gotten down to this weight? Absolutely NOT. Why?

Because I tried many many things and was very health conscience for most of

my years until I finally felt I couldn't do it anymore.

I followed the zone diet (ahem..among MANY diets mind you that MANY others

followed right along with me lol) FAITHFULLY for over 2 years and lost my

usual 20 lbs and slowly gained it all back and then another 50 but I felt

wonderful on the zone way of eating so I stuck with it more than any other

way of eating. No way could I do an atkins like diet faithfully. I got fat

by dieting and this is a VERY true story - lose the 20 and then gain 50. I

do not have all the answers and honestly I do not think the docs have all

the answers on obesity. But I do know the trend in my family and the trend

in me...and I tried everything with full heart no cheating. After awhile I

could no longer afford to diet and gain 30 net lbs each time. I personally

refuse to really take that responsibilty on my shoulders. Disagree with me

that is ok....but I think too much stuff rings true what I've experienced.

In 30 years, I'm sure we'll have better answers on why obesity especially

genetically is so damaging.

Sherra

Re: No Blame & Certainly NO Friggin' Shame!

> As much as we want to wish it otherwise, society does look upon the

> obese with disdain, or should I say, doesn't look..how often do

> normal sized people look an obese person in the eye? And why is it

> OK to tell fat jokes, or make fun of fat people in the movies? Its

> because it is still an accepted part of society to do so. No normal

> weighted person can understand the depth of despair, the hurt, the

> shame, yes, I said shame, that obese people feel. Saying that its

> what is on the inside and not the outside that counts is a joke. It

> should be that way, but truthfully, its far from it. How many give

> you the chance to learn about the beautiful person inside when the

> outside is obese? Very, very few...

>

> Interestingly, recently a few tv shows have placed normal weighted

> person in fat suits and sent them out in public. The last one I saw

> was Average Joe. It gave the normal weighted person a whole new

> perspective. On Average Joe, the gorgeous star, Melina said that

> normally when she stops to ask a guy for directions, he ends up

> hitting on her-she tried this in a fat suit, and most of the guys

> wouldn't even stop to talk to her when she asked for help. A few

> guys hurled insults at her..she was quite shaken by it. I only wish

> that every teenager would have to go thru the same experience. Its a

> great exercise to help sensitize others.

>

> I also agree with Diane who says for the most part we bear

> responsibility for our obesity. Not everyone can say its all

> genetics or a thyroid condition and I only eat 500 calories a day.

> Most of us have eating disorders, no self-control, emotional issues,

> shame and guilt, unwilling or unable to exercise, know how to eat

> right but we don't, etc, etc. Does that excuse the non-obese from

> their ridicule, and cruelty towards the obese? Not in the least.

> And I'm the first one now to berate someone for their insensitivity

> when I see it. Its the least I can do...

>

> Cindy in VA

> lap RNY 2/8/02

>

> >

> > > Truthfully, how many people do you know who don't hold the obese

> person

> > in some kind of

> > > disdain? I mean, TRULY don't, not just give it lip service.

> > >

> > > Carol A

> > > ------------------------------------

> >

> > One thing though, if you are aware that if you eat x amount of food

> or this or

> > that type of food and know the consequence is obesity, aren't you

> in some

> > way responsible? Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of the

> research that

> > points to triggers, etc. causing eating and overindulgance.

> >

> > I am guilty of being lazy about exercising. I am guilty of

> rationalizing before

> > surgery what I was eating by saying it was genes+thyroid condition

> that

> > caused my obesity. Truthfully, I didn't eat healthy, I didn't

> exercise and I knew

> > by age 18 I had a genetic predisposition toward obesity. I wasn't

> gluttonous

> > all the time, but on " special " occasions I did overindulge. Knowing

> all this, I

> > sat around feeling sorry for myself when diagnosed with a thyroid

> tumor and

> > immediately used that to justify my obesity. Beyond that point, I

> knew what I

> > was up against and still did nothing.

> >

> > My point is this, there is a fine line between not feeling guilty

> about the cards

> > your were dealt and understanding that there is a tendancy to

> rationalize

> > what we do when we know what the consequences are going to be. We

> don't

> > have the luxury of getting eat candy, carbs, etc and walk away the

> same size.

> > It sucks and I hate it, but accepting that truth will help me

> understand that I

> > determine my destiny, not hormones. Now, I am going to kick myself

> in the

> > butt!

> >

> > M

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

December 4, 2003

Boys will be boys........ My step-dtr was 12, in 6th grade. They

called us to the school one day for " an incident " . A boy had been

kinda bothering her (presumably because she was roundy and a very

gentle spirit, I'm guessing--why her?). He was shoving in line. One

day she told him to stop, so he pushed her in the breast, more than

once. She finally put her hands up suddenly and as he pushed her down,

he went down.

It was carefully explained to us that she did not understand the

psyche of a black male. Does color make a difference? At all?

Anywhere? I thought rudeness was the problem, not to mention, being a

baby control freak, victimizing others, THEN running home to daddy,

because he got caught in a public place.

So, to paraphrase it back to be sure I understood it, I asked if she

could not defend her own person from anyone, and was told, by the

principal, again, that we didn't understand the black male psyche. I

think we understood very well the psyche of a bully (whose color we

never saw, literally or figuratively).

Typical blame the victim mentality here. Guess who got suspended from

school for 3 days? Apparently to protect other boys from her putting

her hands in front of her body to keep their hands off her body?

Certainly no offense intended to anyone of any color here, just the

ridiculous story of the bbully being defended because he was tall,

thin and male.

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

Re: No Blame & Certainly NO Friggin' Shame!

>

> > As much as we want to wish it otherwise, society does look upon

the

> > obese with disdain, or should I say, doesn't look..how often do

> > normal sized people look an obese person in the eye? And why is

it

> > OK to tell fat jokes, or make fun of fat people in the movies?

Its

> > because it is still an accepted part of society to do so. No

normal

> > weighted person can understand the depth of despair, the hurt, the

> > shame, yes, I said shame, that obese people feel. Saying that its

> > what is on the inside and not the outside that counts is a joke.

It

> > should be that way, but truthfully, its far from it. How many

give

> > you the chance to learn about the beautiful person inside when the

> > outside is obese? Very, very few...

> >

> > Interestingly, recently a few tv shows have placed normal weighted

> > person in fat suits and sent them out in public. The last one I

saw

> > was Average Joe. It gave the normal weighted person a whole new

> > perspective. On Average Joe, the gorgeous star, Melina said that

> > normally when she stops to ask a guy for directions, he ends up

> > hitting on her-she tried this in a fat suit, and most of the guys

> > wouldn't even stop to talk to her when she asked for help. A few

> > guys hurled insults at her..she was quite shaken by it. I only

wish

> > that every teenager would have to go thru the same experience.

Its a

> > great exercise to help sensitize others.

> >

> > I also agree with Diane who says for the most part we bear

> > responsibility for our obesity. Not everyone can say its all

> > genetics or a thyroid condition and I only eat 500 calories a day.

> > Most of us have eating disorders, no self-control, emotional

issues,

> > shame and guilt, unwilling or unable to exercise, know how to eat

> > right but we don't, etc, etc. Does that excuse the non-obese from

> > their ridicule, and cruelty towards the obese? Not in the least.

> > And I'm the first one now to berate someone for their

insensitivity

> > when I see it. Its the least I can do...

> >

> > Cindy in VA

> > lap RNY 2/8/02

> >

> > >

> > > > Truthfully, how many people do you know who don't hold the

obese

> > person

> > > in some kind of

> > > > disdain? I mean, TRULY don't, not just give it lip service.

> > > >

> > > > Carol A

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > > One thing though, if you are aware that if you eat x amount of

food

> > or this or

> > > that type of food and know the consequence is obesity, aren't

you

> > in some

> > > way responsible? Don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of the

> > research that

> > > points to triggers, etc. causing eating and overindulgance.

> > >

> > > I am guilty of being lazy about exercising. I am guilty of

> > rationalizing before

> > > surgery what I was eating by saying it was genes+thyroid

condition

> > that

> > > caused my obesity. Truthfully, I didn't eat healthy, I didn't

> > exercise and I knew

> > > by age 18 I had a genetic predisposition toward obesity. I

wasn't

> > gluttonous

> > > all the time, but on " special " occasions I did overindulge.

Knowing

> > all this, I

> > > sat around feeling sorry for myself when diagnosed with a

thyroid

> > tumor and

> > > immediately used that to justify my obesity. Beyond that point,

I

> > knew what I

> > > was up against and still did nothing.

> > >

> > > My point is this, there is a fine line between not feeling

guilty

> > about the cards

> > > your were dealt and understanding that there is a tendancy to

> > rationalize

> > > what we do when we know what the consequences are going to be.

We

> > don't

> > > have the luxury of getting eat candy, carbs, etc and walk away

the

> > same size.

> > > It sucks and I hate it, but accepting that truth will help me

> > understand that I

> > > determine my destiny, not hormones. Now, I am going to kick

myself

> > in the

> > > butt!

> > >

> > > M

> >

> > Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

> >

> > Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

> >

December 4, 2003

This has been one of the hardest things to have to explain to someone who

is and never was overweight/obese. I know in my heart of hearts that

there are somethings that medically helped my obesity along the way. But

like an alcoholic who takes that first drink that leads to a binge, I too

am responsible for what I put in my mouth. I remember when I mentioned

to my PCP that I wanted surgery he was getting ready to send me to yet

another nutritionist. The thing is that I knew what I should be eating,

still do. I am a firm believer that all the nutritional information in

the world was not going to make me skinny. The nutritional information

is a tool just like my surgery is. I have to use both of them and

several other tools to be successful.

Lori Owen - Denton, Texas

SRVG 7/16/01

Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce

479/356/hoping for close to 200

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 15:16:33 -0000 " cindyjrubin "