Re: on broken teeth

January 21, 2004

Oops, wasn't done. Anybody dig up anything else?

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

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on broken teeth

> OK. I had a dentist appt today. I grilled, as in stop working,

answer questions, GRILLED my dentist on this subject, I've asked

before, but I really held him til he squirmed. Now, I'm not saying he

is the final authority, just a dentist, not old enough to retire, not

wet behind the ears.

>

> One of my questions is why are MY teeth not breaking since I took

inferior calcium for 6 yrs and my teeth were kinda flimsy anyway.

> ( he says it's cuz I nip the problems in the bud--but so would

many of you if you saw it coming)

>

> What can we do nutritionally to prevent this? What do we all have

in common that is causing this in a number of us, but not all?

> He says it is NOT nutritional. And I asked it several ways. It's

pretty hard to convince me that anything is not nutritional. LOL!

>

> The reasons for breakage (and I included front never-worked-on

teeth) would be so:

> a root canal tooth that was never crowned (no blood supply)

> too big filling in a smaller tooth

> an old filling that is silently decaying the tooth underneath

> impaired blood supply to the tooth via injury (like you fell as a

kid and the blood supply was good for awhile, maybe)

> so, a dead tooth

>

> At every turn, he said external. Now, if we did extra vomiting

when we still had full stomach secretions, I'd imagine that would

weaken things, but I forgot to ask that.

>

> If we can't prevent it, does it happen to everyone but they don't

have a forum on which to state it? Know any normies with teeth that

have snapped off? I do. But not lots. Mine are not breaking, but I

need crowns and all have been on antique large fillings.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Vitalady, Inc. T

> www.vitalady.com

>

> If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

> https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

>

January 21, 2004

I have FULL dentures, and I know, after consulting with 3 dental surgeons,

before they yanked the bad ones out, that there are at least 2 things that

can contribute, regardless of your nutrition. ONE is stress. Stress will rot

your teeth from the inside out. TWO is gastric reflux, which will rot them

at the gum line. I had both. Want to see my new shiny whites? People

(asses) have asked me, " are those YOUR teeth? " OF COURSE THEY ARE. I paid

$5000 for them, and they were never in anyone else's mouth before mine. I

own them, and they are MINE. WHY WOULD YOU ASK ME THAT? I didn't steal them

from some drunk on the street.

Jac

Friends are angels who lift you up, when your wings have forgotten how to

fly.

http://www.pictureitdigitaldesigns.com/

http://members.cox.net/XXXFARMPAINTS

mail to: jholdaway@...

January 21, 2004

, I have seen patients on various meds that have had this happen

- one is Dilantin which is well known for hyperplasia (overgrowth) of

the gums. I have a couple of journal articles re dental bone loss being

a precursor to osteoporosis but none of them mentioned teeth breaking

off. I know those who vomit a lot after VBG, or esophageal stricture

(pre-op) this can happen (have a 32 year old friend of dau who just got

dentures as stomach acid destroyed her teeth after her VBG). While we

are talking teeth though, I should mention that osteoporosis is a

problem for not just our spine and hips, ankles and wrists - it is a

cause of dental bone problems and a patient's inability to wear dentures

as there is insufficient bone to hold them in. Amber/FLRN

Re: on broken teeth

Oops, wasn't done. Anybody dig up anything else?

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

on broken teeth

> OK. I had a dentist appt today. I grilled, as in stop working,

answer questions, GRILLED my dentist on this subject, I've asked before,

but I really held him til he squirmed. Now, I'm not saying he is the

final authority, just a dentist, not old enough to retire, not wet

behind the ears.

>

> One of my questions is why are MY teeth not breaking since I took

inferior calcium for 6 yrs and my teeth were kinda flimsy anyway.

> ( he says it's cuz I nip the problems in the bud--but so would many

of you if you saw it coming)

>

> What can we do nutritionally to prevent this? What do we all have in

common that is causing this in a number of us, but not all?

> He says it is NOT nutritional. And I asked it several ways. It's

pretty hard to convince me that anything is not nutritional. LOL!

>

> The reasons for breakage (and I included front never-worked-on

teeth) would be so:

> a root canal tooth that was never crowned (no blood supply)

> too big filling in a smaller tooth

> an old filling that is silently decaying the tooth underneath

> impaired blood supply to the tooth via injury (like you fell as a

kid and the blood supply was good for awhile, maybe)

> so, a dead tooth

>

> At every turn, he said external. Now, if we did extra vomiting when

we still had full stomach secretions, I'd imagine that would weaken

things, but I forgot to ask that.

>

> If we can't prevent it, does it happen to everyone but they don't

have a forum on which to state it? Know any normies with teeth that have

snapped off? I do. But not lots. Mine are not breaking, but I need

crowns and all have been on antique large fillings.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Vitalady, Inc. T

> www.vitalady.com

>

> If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

> https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

>

January 21, 2004

And stress will cause more of the grinding. I'm noticing as my day

wears on each day, I am clenching my teeth by 5pm. And I wonder why I

need crowns. Sheesh.

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

RE: on broken teeth

> I have FULL dentures, and I know, after consulting with 3 dental

surgeons,

> before they yanked the bad ones out, that there are at least 2

things that

> can contribute, regardless of your nutrition. ONE is stress.

Stress will rot

> your teeth from the inside out. TWO is gastric reflux, which will

rot them

> at the gum line. I had both. Want to see my new shiny whites?

People

> (asses) have asked me, " are those YOUR teeth? " OF COURSE THEY ARE.

I paid

> $5000 for them, and they were never in anyone else's mouth before

mine. I

> own them, and they are MINE. WHY WOULD YOU ASK ME THAT? I didn't

steal them

> from some drunk on the street.

>

> Jac

> Friends are angels who lift you up, when your wings have forgotten

how to

> fly.

> http://www.pictureitdigitaldesigns.com/

> http://members.cox.net/XXXFARMPAINTS

> mail to: jholdaway@...

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

January 22, 2004

Yesterday I went for my semi-annual check-up and also asked my dentist this

question. She told me that it is probably 50% heredity and the rest is

environmental factors like diet, medications, illness, ect. She said that

everyone has a pH to their saliva. Acidic will cause tooth decay and weaken

the structure, alkaline will cause gum disease. People who have a more

neutral pH are lucky. Also an acidic diet (citrus fruit, coffee,tea) will

cause your teeth to weaken. She said that the use of fluoride in tooth paste

and rinses will help. I use a prescription tooth paste once a day that has

extra fluoride because I've had problems for years with teeth breaking.

Since using this I haven't had any problems. I don't know if this is why

anyone else has this problem but it's an interesting theory.

January 22, 2004

Having just spent the last 6 months in the dental chair, I asked these same

questions and got basically the same answers as you did . It

started when I broke two back teeth.....actually I broke the crowns off.

Now I also must admit that for the last year, I've also been on my

compulsive ice crunching too so the fact that they just broke right off

should not have come as a huge surprise. But, as the dentist told me

anyway, crowns and root canals and fillings don't last forever, they get old

too and bacteria gets in and under all that pretty cement they put in there

after a while. The work on these particular teeth was over 20 years old, so

it kind of made sense. I also just had to have some major oral surgery on

my gums in one section because bacteria had gotten in there. Going to the

dentist and/or oral surgeon on almost a weekly basis for the last 6 months

has not been fun and it scared me silly.....got me back to faithfully taking

my Calcium and protein. When I asked the dentist and the oral surgeon if

this would help and if malabsorption of these elements could contribute to

the problem, they both said probably not....especially at my age......geez

thanks guys, they made this 55 + girl feel a bit antiquated....and I even

wore my hoochie mamma outfit.....hhhhuuummmppphhh. But, I digress. Also

since WLS, I have had a couple of major go rounds with ulcers and still have

" acid " problems and I have to be very careful about what I eat, so I asked

about the acid, the vomiting and the teeth problems. These could have been

contributing factors, who knows. All I know is, I figure kicking up the

calcium and protein wouldn't hurt. Also....and this one's a no brainer, but

my compulsive ice crunching has also had to be curtailed.

It seems as though the external factors are much more influential than the

nutritional ones, but I'm still not totally sold on that. My 2 pennies says

that if you're in poor nutritional health and you are low on the basic

rebuilding blocks (meaning protein and other supps), then how can your teeth

and gums be healthy enough to ward off bacteria, rebuild itself and stop the

leeching of calcium.

Judi

4/24/00

-150

From: Vitalady

Oops, wasn't done. Anybody dig up anything else?

January 22, 2004

Judi, I have journal articles saying osteoporosis often shows up first

in the dental office (on the panogram or whatever it is when they obtain

x-rays all around from ear to ear), I would be glad to share. I took

copies to my dentist and endodontist so they could be watchful with

other patients.

Amber/FLRN

Re: on broken teeth

Having just spent the last 6 months in the dental chair, I asked these

same questions and got basically the same answers as you did .

It started when I broke two back teeth.....actually I broke the crowns

off. Now I also must admit that for the last year, I've also been on my

compulsive ice crunching too so the fact that they just broke right off

should not have come as a huge surprise. But, as the dentist told me

anyway, crowns and root canals and fillings don't last forever, they get

old too and bacteria gets in and under all that pretty cement they put

in there after a while. The work on these particular teeth was over 20

years old, so it kind of made sense. I also just had to have some major

oral surgery on my gums in one section because bacteria had gotten in

there. Going to the dentist and/or oral surgeon on almost a weekly

basis for the last 6 months has not been fun and it scared me

silly.....got me back to faithfully taking my Calcium and protein. When

I asked the dentist and the oral surgeon if this would help and if

malabsorption of these elements could contribute to the problem, they

both said probably not....especially at my age......geez thanks guys,

they made this 55 + girl feel a bit antiquated....and I even wore my

hoochie mamma outfit.....hhhhuuummmppphhh. But, I digress. Also since

WLS, I have had a couple of major go rounds with ulcers and still have

" acid " problems and I have to be very careful about what I eat, so I

asked about the acid, the vomiting and the teeth problems. These could

have been contributing factors, who knows. All I know is, I figure

kicking up the calcium and protein wouldn't hurt. Also....and this

one's a no brainer, but my compulsive ice crunching has also had to be

curtailed. It seems as though the external factors are much more

influential than the nutritional ones, but I'm still not totally sold on

that. My 2 pennies says that if you're in poor nutritional health and

you are low on the basic rebuilding blocks (meaning protein and other

supps), then how can your teeth and gums be healthy enough to ward off

bacteria, rebuild itself and stop the leeching of calcium. Judi 4/24/00

-150

From: Vitalady

Oops, wasn't done. Anybody dig up anything else?

January 22, 2004

Thanks Amber.....would love the articles. My last dexa scan did show some

osteopenia and borderline osteoporosis, so why I got lax on taking those

calcium horse pills, I'll never know. I need to find either a liquid or a

chewable supplement that won't come back up on me. And with all the

arthritis and joint pain and problems I had pre op, it makes me wonder where

my mind is. But, IMHO, when calcium is leeched, it probably doesn't just

take it from just bones.....I'm sure the teeth are also compromised. Part of

the oral surgery I just had was to put in some bone chips to help replace

some of the jaw bone that was broken down...probably from bacteria, but I'm

sure if my calcium levels had been anywhere near normal, it might not have

been so bad. Thanks for the articles!

Judi

4/24/00

-150

From: Amber Reid

Judi, I have journal articles saying osteoporosis often shows up first

in the dental office (on the panogram or whatever it is when they obtain

x-rays all around from ear to ear), I would be glad to share. I took

copies to my dentist and endodontist so they could be watchful with

other patients.

Amber/FLRN

January 22, 2004

Perhaps they thought that you had borrowed your mother's just for the

day.

Alice

The Loon

RNY 12/28/00

.....and they are MINE. WHY WOULD YOU ASK ME THAT? I didn't steal them

from some drunk on the street.

Jac

January 22, 2004

I've tried to find an answer to this without success: could heavy

intake of protein supplements cause bone loss? I've often read that

too much protein can have that effect, but I'm not clear if that's

only protein from animal sources, or all protein. Here's a quote

from the nutritionsource web site of the Harvard School of Public

Health:

" The digestion of protein releases acids that the body usually

neutralizes with calcium and other buffering agents in the blood.

Eating lots of protein, such as the amounts recommended in the so-

called no-carb diets, requires lots of calcium. Some of this may be

pulled from bone. Following a high-protein diet for a few weeks

probably won't have much effect on bone strength. Doing it for a

long time, though, could weaken bone. In the Nurses' Health Study,

for example, women who ate more than 95 grams of protein a day were

20 percent more likely to have broken a wrist over a 12-year period

when compared to those who ate an average amount of protein (less

than 68 grams a day).(2) While more research is clearly needed to

define the optimal amount of daily protein, these results suggest

that high-protein diets should be used with caution, if at all. "

Now obviously the Nurses' Health Study wasn't done on WLS patients,

and I'm guessing, but don't know for sure, that most of the large

protein intake wasn't in the form of whey-based supplements. But

it's still an intriguing question, and I'd love a definitive answer.

I'd also love to know if there's any real data--as opposed to all

these anecdotal storeis--showing that WLS patients really do have

more problems with their teeth.

In the meantime, my dental insurance is paying for periodic fluoride

treatments because I've got some gum recession, and I'm *trying* to

get in the habit of using the little rubber-tipped gum stimulator

instead of snacking in the evenings. At least we've got better

treatment now than we did a generation or two ago. When I was

pregnant--20 years ago!--my dentist reminded me of the old

adage " you lose a tooth for every baby, " and jokingly told his

patients to pick which tooth they wanted to lose and come back after

delivery so he could pull it!

Celia

January 22, 2004

And how's that anemia comoing along? Addressing that now?

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

Re: on broken teeth

Having just spent the last 6 months in the dental chair, I asked these same

questions and got basically the same answers as you did . It started

when I broke two back teeth.....actually I broke the crowns off. Now I also

must admit that for the last year, I've also been on my compulsive ice crunching

too so the fact that they just broke right off should not have come as a huge

surprise. But, as the dentist told me anyway, crowns and root canals and

fillings don't last forever, they get old too and bacteria gets in and under all

that pretty cement they put in there after a while. The work on these

particular teeth was over 20 years old, so it kind of made sense. I also just

had to have some major oral surgery on my gums in one section because bacteria

had gotten in there. Going to the dentist and/or oral surgeon on almost a

weekly basis for the last 6 months has not been fun and it scared me

silly.....got me back to faithfully taking my Calcium and protein. When I asked

the dentist and the oral surgeon if this would help and if malabsorption of

these elements could contribute to the problem, they both said probably

not....especially at my age......geez thanks guys, they made this 55 + girl feel

a bit antiquated....and I even wore my hoochie mamma

outfit.....hhhhuuummmppphhh. But, I digress. Also since WLS, I have had a

couple of major go rounds with ulcers and still have " acid " problems and I have

to be very careful about what I eat, so I asked about the acid, the vomiting and

the teeth problems. These could have been contributing factors, who knows. All

I know is, I figure kicking up the calcium and protein wouldn't hurt.

Also....and this one's a no brainer, but my compulsive ice crunching has also

had to be curtailed.

It seems as though the external factors are much more influential than the

nutritional ones, but I'm still not totally sold on that. My 2 pennies says

that if you're in poor nutritional health and you are low on the basic

rebuilding blocks (meaning protein and other supps), then how can your teeth and

gums be healthy enough to ward off bacteria, rebuild itself and stop the

leeching of calcium.

Judi

4/24/00

-150

From: Vitalady

Oops, wasn't done. Anybody dig up anything else?

January 22, 2004

Well, yes, there is that. LOL!

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

Re: on broken teeth

> Perhaps they thought that you had borrowed your mother's just for

the

> day.

> Alice

> The Loon

> RNY 12/28/00

>

> ....and they are MINE. WHY WOULD YOU ASK ME THAT? I didn't steal

them

> from some drunk on the street.

> Jac

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

January 22, 2004

I have known people who literally have ground their teeth flat, which is really

bad. My mom had TMJ, which required a splint. She also had her teeth

reground to make her bite fit better and to prevent TMJ from returning. I have

found that I have an overbite, (must be because my parents let me have a

pacifier until I was 1+ yrs old and I had a full mouth of teeth?) I likely need

to

have that corrected as well as the fact that my bite is off center. Do I have

the

money to pay for that? Nope, so I guess I have to live with my crooked bite. (I

was lucky enough to have perfectly straight teeth though.)

I have noticed that people have varying degrees of dental health. I always

had cavities as a child, but my sister didn't get her first cavity until after

she

had a baby - not fair. We both brushed our teeth every night. What was the

difference? No idea.

Gee, do you lose weight in your gums too? Who knows.

M

>

> And stress will cause more of the grinding. I'm noticing as my day

> wears on each day, I am clenching my teeth by 5pm. And I wonder why I

> need crowns. Sheesh.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Vitalady, Inc. T

> www.vitalady.com

>

> If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

> https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

>

> RE: on broken teeth

>

> > I have FULL dentures, and I know, after consulting with 3 dental

> surgeons,

> > before they yanked the bad ones out, that there are at least 2

> things that

> > can contribute, regardless of your nutrition. ONE is stress.

> Stress will rot

> > your teeth from the inside out. TWO is gastric reflux, which will

> rot them

> > at the gum line. I had both. Want to see my new shiny whites?

> People

> > (asses) have asked me, " are those YOUR teeth? " OF COURSE THEY

ARE.

> I paid

> > $5000 for them, and they were never in anyone else's mouth before

> mine. I

> > own them, and they are MINE. WHY WOULD YOU ASK ME THAT? I

didn't

> steal them

> > from some drunk on the street.

> >

> > Jac

> > Friends are angels who lift you up, when your wings have forgotten

> how to

> > fly.

> > http://www.pictureitdigitaldesigns.com/

> > http://members.cox.net/XXXFARMPAINTS

> > mail to: jholdaway@c...

> >

> > Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

> >

> > Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

> >

January 22, 2004

My one lil research shows the opposite, that BMD increased with

higher proteins.

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

Re: on broken teeth

> I've tried to find an answer to this without success: could heavy

> intake of protein supplements cause bone loss? I've often read

that

> too much protein can have that effect, but I'm not clear if that's

> only protein from animal sources, or all protein. Here's a quote

> from the nutritionsource web site of the Harvard School of Public

> Health:

>

> " The digestion of protein releases acids that the body usually

> neutralizes with calcium and other buffering agents in the blood.

> Eating lots of protein, such as the amounts recommended in the so-

> called no-carb diets, requires lots of calcium. Some of this may

be

> pulled from bone. Following a high-protein diet for a few weeks

> probably won't have much effect on bone strength. Doing it for a

> long time, though, could weaken bone. In the Nurses' Health Study,

> for example, women who ate more than 95 grams of protein a day

were

> 20 percent more likely to have broken a wrist over a 12-year

period

> when compared to those who ate an average amount of protein (less

> than 68 grams a day).(2) While more research is clearly needed to

> define the optimal amount of daily protein, these results suggest

> that high-protein diets should be used with caution, if at all. "

>

> Now obviously the Nurses' Health Study wasn't done on WLS

patients,

> and I'm guessing, but don't know for sure, that most of the large

> protein intake wasn't in the form of whey-based supplements. But

> it's still an intriguing question, and I'd love a definitive

answer.

>

> I'd also love to know if there's any real data--as opposed to all

> these anecdotal storeis--showing that WLS patients really do have

> more problems with their teeth.

>

> In the meantime, my dental insurance is paying for periodic

fluoride

> treatments because I've got some gum recession, and I'm *trying*

to

> get in the habit of using the little rubber-tipped gum stimulator

> instead of snacking in the evenings. At least we've got better

> treatment now than we did a generation or two ago. When I was

> pregnant--20 years ago!--my dentist reminded me of the old

> adage " you lose a tooth for every baby, " and jokingly told his

> patients to pick which tooth they wanted to lose and come back

after

> delivery so he could pull it!

>

> Celia

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

January 22, 2004

No insurance therefore no labs for the last 2 years. But with the ice thing

going on, I did double up on my iron supps. At 4 years out and with the

marginal ulcer and the Aciphex, I still can't do the meat thing....a little

light fish occasionally but definitely no beef, but I have also increased my

dark green veggie consumption. The ice compulsion is better.....still have

to fight that back because I would really like to keep the teeth I still

own. Why is it some of us have to get hit in the head with a board before

we learn. I preach the preach and always have, but evidently thought I was

different or maybe I was just in denial. And all I did was not be as

diligent about my supps for less than a year after almost 2 years of being

faithful to them. I did take them from time to time, but not daily. It

don't take long folks to become deficient in something......and I'm not

distal. No one is ever going to tell me that no matter what surgery you had

or how proximal or distal you are, supplements and protein supplementing are

important. If ya don't do it religiously, it's probably going to catch up

to you one of these days. It may not be drastic, but it will show up

somewhere somehow.

Judi

4/24/00

-150

From: Vitalady

And how's that anemia comoing along? Addressing that now?

January 22, 2004

The other thing that can apparently contribute to broken teeth is

mercury (amalgam) fillings causing nerve damage and tooth-root death

over time, damaging the teeth and reducing blood supply to them. I am

working on getting ALL the metal out of my head, no small undertaking.

However, many of the symptoms I have, things that I initially chalked up

to bad nutrition all those years I was fat or just my imagination, can

also be caused by heavy metal poisoning.

http://www.neuraltherapy.com/articles.asp

I am so lucky this world-famous doctor (Dietrich Klinghardt, MD, Ph.D.)

is right in my area (Bellevue, WA). I am going to work with him to

complete his heavy-metal detox protocol when the metal's all gone. It

will be very interesting to see how the gastric bypass changes things in

terms of the detox program.

Z

Open RNY 09/17/01

http://www.ziobro.us

RE: on broken teeth

I have FULL dentures, and I know, after consulting with 3 dental

surgeons, before they yanked the bad ones out, that there are at least 2

things that can contribute, regardless of your nutrition. ONE is stress.

Stress will rot your teeth from the inside out. TWO is gastric reflux,

which will rot them at the gum line. I had both.

January 22, 2004

Judi,

You know ice crunching is often a sign of anemia, right? Have you had

that checked out?

Z

Open RNY 09/17/01

Http://www.ziobro.us

Re: on broken teeth

Having just spent the last 6 months in the dental chair, I asked these

same questions and got basically the same answers as you did .

It started when I broke two back teeth.....actually I broke the crowns

off.