Therapist issues

December 30, 2003

Jacque, I've got to tell you, if I had a therapist that needed therapy

herself/himself to deal with me, I would chew him/her up alive! But I am quite

a

handful, to tell the truth. Thank god mine is smart enough to handle me!

The point is: if your therapist isn't working for you, don't take it as a fault

of yours or some sort of defect, just move on till you find someone who " gets

you. " ! in the final analysis, you are lucky that moron

terminated you! go find someone who will be more helpful. Like in love,

sometimes

you have to kiss alot of toads until you find your prince.

Lucille

In a message dated 12/30/2003 10:37:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,

Graduate-OSSG writes:

> And possibly, this could be countertransference on the part of the

> therapist. Might be that your issues set off her own issues to such a

> degree that she cannot treat you objectively. Just my two cents worth. I

> had a therapist that readily admitted to this problem...but she got herself

> into therapy in order to continue with me. I'm really grateful that she was

> willing to continue with me despite her problem, as it was with her that I

> made the most progress. I am no longer with her, as i no longer need the

> intensive therapy that I did at that time, but am in occasional touch as

> friends by mail. I think it is lousy being terminated the way you were, but

> guess it's better than to continue with someone that could not or would not

> help you.

>

> Regards~

>

> Jacque

>

December 30, 2003

I personally wouldn't see a therapist if I knew that they were not in

therapy or had a very strong support system. Having done crisis

intervention and some group therapy, I know from experience that I have

to be able to unload a lot to keep myself centered. It doesn't mean that

I am a weakling. It means I know my limitations and choose to do

something about it. JMHO

Lori Owen - Denton, Texas

SRVG 7/16/01

Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce

479/356/hoping for close to 200

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:06:47 EST DisDog@... writes:

> Jacque, I've got to tell you, if I had a therapist that needed

> therapy

> herself/himself to deal with me, I would chew him/her up alive!

> But I am quite a

> handful, to tell the truth. Thank god mine is smart enough to

> handle me!

> Lucille

December 30, 2003

I personally wouldn't see a therapist if I knew that they were not in

therapy or had a very strong support system. Having done crisis

intervention and some group therapy, I know from experience that I have

to be able to unload a lot to keep myself centered. It doesn't mean that

I am a weakling. It means I know my limitations and choose to do

something about it. JMHO

Lori Owen - Denton, Texas

SRVG 7/16/01

Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce

479/356/hoping for close to 200

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:06:47 EST DisDog@... writes:

> Jacque, I've got to tell you, if I had a therapist that needed

> therapy

> herself/himself to deal with me, I would chew him/her up alive!

> But I am quite a

> handful, to tell the truth. Thank god mine is smart enough to

> handle me!

> Lucille

December 31, 2003

My therapist has been working with Vets at various VA hospitals for the last

25 - 30 years, so I don't think it is an exaggeration to say she has doubtless

had to deal with some of the most agonizing and heart-rending and challenging

situations that can confront any mental health professional. ly, that

she doesn't stick her head in a paper bag and scream like a banshee every hour

on the hour is a shock to me. Does she do therapy herself or have a support

system to clear out the emotional/psychological detritus? I would imagine

so (but frankly it's not my business to ask. That's a line I won't cross as

encroaching on her personal life -- MY personal attitude.) What I was

addressing specifically, and what I may not have made clear (apparently) is that

*I*

(personally) would have a problem with a therapist who became " unhinged "

somehow, or shook up specifically, and I cannot stress this enough --

specifically

over issues concerning ME. That was what I got out of Jacque's post -- her

therapist sought treatment as a direct result of her own treatment of Jacque

due to personal problems that treating Jacque stirred in her. Did I

misunderstand? And what would disquiet me (and I stress *me*) is that said

therapist

would have made me aware of these " shared " or related personal problems as an

outgrowth of " our " therapy. While I would be enormously sympathetic, that

situation would effectively END our therapy -- my choice. I would translate

such a situation as " the blind leading the blind " and that is not what I am in

therapy for. My therapist has been amazing for me this past year we have

been working together, and she has been enormously helpful, but (certainly not

at

this point) I do not consider her my pal, my friend, or someone with whom I

want to " share " mutual problems. ly, I would be appalled if my therapist

suddenly got confessional. I value her immensely, and I am grateful that I

found her!

I am so happy for Jacque that she had such a good outcome with her therapist,

and made so much progress with her! As I was trying to say: it's really

about the blend --- different people will blend better together well or not

blend at all just in life & casual situations, and I think it's an even more

important thing to make a " match " in therapy. I am very lucky that I have

found a

very good match for me.

Lucille

In a message dated 12/30/2003 8:03:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,

loriowen@... writes:

> I personally wouldn't see a therapist if I knew that they were not in

> therapy or had a very strong support system. Having done crisis

> intervention and some group therapy, I know from experience that I have

> to be able to unload a lot to keep myself centered. It doesn't mean that

> I am a weakling. It means I know my limitations and choose to do

> something about it. JMHO

> Lori Owen - Denton, Texas

> SRVG 7/16/01

> Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce

> 479/356/hoping for close to 200

>

> On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:06:47 EST DisDog@... writes:

> > Jacque, I've got to tell you, if I had a therapist that needed

> > therapy

> > herself/himself to deal with me, I would chew him/her up alive!

> > But I am quite a

> > handful, to tell the truth. Thank god mine is smart enough to

> > handle me!

> > Lucille

>

December 31, 2003

LOL...is it just me, or does there seem to be a large number of us who

are/have been " crazy " and required the serves of a mental health

professional?

I wonder if our MO status has anything to do with this -- did our

mental state lead to the MO, or did the MO lead to the mental state? Did our

life

circumstances generate both mental as well as MO issues for us?

Is this the proverbial " which came first; the chicken or the egg? " Or,

are they completely unrelated and perhaps those of us who have sought therapy

are more likely to find the need for support groups such as this and we are

self selected population and not representative of the whole.

Beth

Houston, TX

VBG - Dr. Srungaram

05/31/00 - 314 lbs.

11/01/02 - Abdominoplasty

11/29/02 - 160 lbs.

5'10 "

December 31, 2003

Thank you for clarifying. That makes a lot more sense. Your initial

reply just hit me the wrong way.

Lori Owen - Denton, Texas

SRVG 7/16/01

Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce

479/356/hoping for close to 200

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:11:20 EST DisDog@... writes:

> My therapist has been working with Vets at various VA hospitals for

> the last

> 25 - 30 years, so I don't think it is an exaggeration to say she has

> doubtless

> had to deal with some of the most agonizing and heart-rending and

> challenging

> situations that can confront any mental health professional.

> ly, that

> she doesn't stick her head in a paper bag and scream like a banshee

> every hour

> on the hour is a shock to me. Does she do therapy herself or have

> a support

> system to clear out the emotional/psychological detritus? I would

> imagine

> so (but frankly it's not my business to ask. That's a line I won't

> cross as

> encroaching on her personal life -- MY personal attitude.) What I

> was

> addressing specifically, and what I may not have made clear

> (apparently) is that *I*

> (personally) would have a problem with a therapist who became

> " unhinged "

> somehow, or shook up specifically, and I cannot stress this enough

> -- specifically

> over issues concerning ME. That was what I got out of Jacque's

> post -- her

> therapist sought treatment as a direct result of her own treatment

> of Jacque

> due to personal problems that treating Jacque stirred in her. Did

> I

> misunderstand? And what would disquiet me (and I stress *me*) is

> that said therapist

> would have made me aware of these " shared " or related personal

> problems as an

> outgrowth of " our " therapy. While I would be enormously

> sympathetic, that

> situation would effectively END our therapy -- my choice. I would

> translate

> such a situation as " the blind leading the blind " and that is not

> what I am in

> therapy for. My therapist has been amazing for me this past year

> we have

> been working together, and she has been enormously helpful, but

> (certainly not at

> this point) I do not consider her my pal, my friend, or someone with

> whom I

> to " share " mutual problems. ly, I would be appalled if my

> therapist

> suddenly got confessional. I value her immensely, and I am

> grateful that I

> found her!

>

> I am so happy for Jacque that she had such a good outcome with her

> therapist,

> and made so much progress with her! As I was trying to say: it's

> really

> about the blend --- different people will blend better together well

> or not

> blend at all just in life & casual situations, and I think it's an

> even more

> important thing to make a " match " in therapy. I am very lucky that

> I have found a

> very good match for me.

>

> Lucille

>

> In a message dated 12/30/2003 8:03:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> loriowen@... writes:

>

> > I personally wouldn't see a therapist if I knew that they were not

> in

> > therapy or had a very strong support system. Having done crisis

> > intervention and some group therapy, I know from experience that I

> have

> > to be able to unload a lot to keep myself centered. It doesn't

> mean that

> > I am a weakling. It means I know my limitations and choose to do

> > something about it. JMHO

> > Lori Owen - Denton, Texas

> > SRVG 7/16/01

> > Dr. Ritter/Dr. Bryce

> > 479/356/hoping for close to 200

> >

> > On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:06:47 EST DisDog@... writes:

> > > Jacque, I've got to tell you, if I had a therapist that needed

> > > therapy

> > > herself/himself to deal with me, I would chew him/her up alive!

>

> > > But I am quite a

> > > handful, to tell the truth. Thank god mine is smart enough to

>

> > > handle me!

> > > Lucille

> >

>

December 31, 2003

> I wonder if our MO status has anything to do with this -- did our

> mental state lead to the MO, or did the MO lead to the mental state? Did our

life

> circumstances generate both mental as well as MO issues for us?

Both, I suspect. Looking at myself, I come from a family of addicts of one sort

or another. For most of them, alcohol, for some of them, food. From the time I

was small, food was comfort, love, protection. Same for my mom, who was also

agoraphobic (though at the time we just thought she hated crowds.)

I think once we reach the MO stage, or for that matter are even a little

overweight, the issues related to body image start to consume our thoughts, and

most of us aren't even aware that this is a mental health issue.

I suspect that in the general population, most folks could use some counseling

of some sort -- maybe having a good friend to confide in, a clergyman, or even

just a neighbor to swap gossip with, fills this bill with some. Others need a

professional.

As to therapists needing therapy themselves... I don't know how it is

everywhere, but I had a close friend in Colorado who was a therapist, and by the

laws of her licensing, she HAD to have a given amount of therapy each year, in

order to keep her license current. I think it's a good idea, personally, for

therapists to be able to have someone to vent to themselves. Their job can't be

an easy one.

~~ Lyn

December 31, 2003

When I was taking care of my newborn and my terminally ill mother

10 1/2 years ago, I was going through hell. My doctor suggested that I

go " talk to somebody " and recommended me to this woman therapist. I had

never been to one before so I didn't know what to expect. Told her what

was going on and that I'm never alone, that I can't leave the house for

more than a few minutes at a time, etc. etc. She then proceeds to tell

me that she needs to see me at least twice a week because she felt I was

in " trouble " . I told her that that would be impossible as the only

reason I was able to see her that day was because my mother was in the

hospital for chemo and would be coming home in two days. She insisted

that I make two appointments for the following week. I was able to get

to the first one, but had to cancel the next one. Rescheduled and had to

cancel a few more times. There was nobody to help me. If a nurses aide

showed up, they left early, they injured my mother, they broke or stole

things, it was terrible. Anyway, the therapist calls me one day to tell

me that she can't continue to see me if I keep cancelling my appt's and

that she is running a business and I'm keeping her from making a living.

I told her the reason I came to her in the first place was because I was

so overwhelmed with everything and a major part of my problem was not

being able to get out of the house. I asked if we could possibly do the

sessions by phone and she said that it doesn't work that way and to

establish a doctor/patient relationship, we would have to do it face to

face. She then had the nerve to ask me how I " felt " about her decision

to terminate our sessions. I told her that I felt like I was just put on

hold on a suicide hotline and hung up on her. She then proceeded to call

and leave three messages on my machine over the next two days and then

sent me a letter stating that she was fearing for my " mental health " .

She was covering her ass is what she was doing.

I then sent her a letter stating that her " terminating our

doctor/patient relationship " was the best thing that happened to me in

months because she pissed me off so badly that I was back up to the

challenge of taking care of my baby and my mother and that in the future

should I have the need for any mental health issues I find a doctor with

a bit more understanding and compassion. I understood that she was

running a business, but I'm not the one who insisted to a person that

they come to see me twice a week when they just told you that hand't

left the house in over 37 days because of a sick parent. Wow, I forgot

how mad she made me until this therapy thread started.

Regina

December 31, 2003

Boy, I've noticed this, too. I have never seen a shrink or

therapist, not because I didn't need one, but because I never felt I

needed one. LOL We know that could mean anything, right? <BG>

But, I have been amazed at how many of us are on antidepressants.

So, my question, too, has always been are we depressed because we're

fat, or are we fat because we're depressed? Just don't ask a shrink

to answer that question!

in NJ

*************************

> LOL...is it just me, or does there seem to be a large number

of us who are/have been " crazy " and required the serves of a mental

health professional?

> I wonder if our MO status has anything to do with this --

did our mental state lead to the MO, or did the MO lead to the mental

state? Did our life circumstances generate both mental as well as MO

issues for us?

> Is this the proverbial " which came first; the chicken or the

egg? " Or, are they completely unrelated and perhaps those of us who

have sought therapy are more likely to find the need for support

groups such as this and we are self selected population and not

representative of the whole.

>

> Beth

>

December 31, 2003

So, my question, too, has always been are we depressed because we're

fat, or are we fat because we're depressed?

*************************

Yes!!!

December 31, 2003

, I have been asking this question as an RN for 25 plus years. The

psychiatrists haven't a clue nor do the majority of the psychologists. I

have a theory though - I think the depression comes first, the carbs

make us feel better so we eat more, then we gain weight and depression

increases and to self-comfort we seek-out the feel good from the carbs

and it becomes a vicious cycle. Another thing is I think many of us have

a problem with our serotonin levels.

Maybe we do not make enough, make our body does not use it properly, or

maybe we have more stressors in our life and " we run out " .

I asked a friend who is a therapist why 85%+ of the females that I know

are on anti-depressants. She theorized that we are born with x-amount

that can be maintained with exercise, sunshine, nutrition whatever.

Major stressors can cause it to be depleted. Unlike our mothers and

grandmothers, we work, raise a family, are active in our religion, the

PTA, work for an advanced educational degree, all while being a nuclear

family without family support. All of these things take a toll on our

serotonin level. Now, having said all that - that, with about $.90 might

buy you a cup of coffee LOL.

The question I have asked and heard the answer rather clearly is how

many of us have abuse issues? Many of us have them and I think many of

us eat to self-comfort.

Amber/FLRN

PS happy New Year Everyone!!

Re: Therapist issues

Boy, I've noticed this, too. I have never seen a shrink or

therapist, not because I didn't need one, but because I never felt I

needed one. LOL We know that could mean anything, right? <BG>

But, I have been amazed at how many of us are on antidepressants.

So, my question, too, has always been are we depressed because we're

fat, or are we fat because we're depressed? Just don't ask a shrink

to answer that question!

in NJ

*************************

> LOL...is it just me, or does there seem to be a large number

of us who are/have been " crazy " and required the serves of a mental

health professional?

> I wonder if our MO status has anything to do with this --

did our mental state lead to the MO, or did the MO lead to the mental

state? Did our life circumstances generate both mental as well as MO

issues for us?

> Is this the proverbial " which came first; the chicken or the

egg? " Or, are they completely unrelated and perhaps those of us who

have sought therapy are more likely to find the need for support

groups such as this and we are self selected population and not

representative of the whole.

>

> Beth

>

Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

December 31, 2003

What she said. Lori O.

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:58:15 -0800 " Sue Barr " writes:

> So, my question, too, has always been are we depressed because we're

>

> fat, or are we fat because we're depressed?

>

> *************************

>

> Yes!!!

December 31, 2003

The funny thing is, I never needed anti depressants until I became

MO and now that I am of a relatively normal weight, I don't take

them anymore (at the time of surgery I was on paxil and seroquel,

been off of both for quite some time now). Don't know if there is a

connection, but I am open to taking them again if the need ever

arises.

~Kricket

> So, my question, too, has always been are we depressed because

we're

> fat, or are we fat because we're depressed?

December 31, 2003

I think, personally, that many of us became MO as a protection from the

abuses that happened to us at various points in our lives. I'm not saying

this applies to all...obviously we all have differing opinions in this arena

But I do know that there is a common denominator for many of us who come

from nightmare pasts that hide behind the fat. I could never get lower the

180 lbs, no matter WHAT I did. After therapy...I not only went past it...I

got underweight which was a very new experience for me. Amazing what the

mind can do. Once I no longer needed that protection...I was able to rid

myself of it. It IS an area to explore...and once again...this is not a one

size fits all situation. But it does need to be addressed for some.

Regards~

Jacque

LOL...is it just me, or does there seem to be a large number of us

who

are/have been " crazy " and required the serves of a mental health

professional?

I wonder if our MO status has anything to do with this -- did our

mental state lead to the MO, or did the MO lead to the mental state? Did our

life

circumstances generate both mental as well as MO issues for us?

Is this the proverbial " which came first; the chicken or the egg? "

Or,

are they completely unrelated and perhaps those of us who have sought

therapy

are more likely to find the need for support groups such as this and we are

self selected population and not representative of the whole.

Beth

Houston, TX

VBG - Dr. Srungaram

05/31/00 - 314 lbs.

11/01/02 - Abdominoplasty

11/29/02 - 160 lbs.

5'10 "

December 31, 2003

In a message dated 12/31/2003 4:48:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,

watnext@... writes:

But, I have been amazed at how many of us are on antidepressants.

So, my question, too, has always been are we depressed because we're

fat, or are we fat because we're depressed? Just don't ask a shrink

to answer that question!

=======================================

The chicken or the egg just doesn't matter. Food is our drug of choice.

Eating makes us feel better, so we eat. We overeat because our mind tells us

that

more is better. I do not believe that we get MO to protect ourselves from

anything. We get MO because we are driven to eat to make us feel better. We

are

not self-destructive or any of the nasties told to us. We simply want to

feel good. Some of us become sad over this. Not a tremendous depression. Others

like me have a chemical imbalance that causes depression and can use meds to

balance the chemicals. Maybe someday they will find a pill that will calm that

beast that craves carbs.

Fay Bayuk

**300/168

10/23/01

Dr.

Open RNY 150 cm

Click for My Profile

http://obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/profile.phtml?N=Bayuk951061008

December 31, 2003

>>> I wonder if our MO status has anything to do with this -- did our

mental state lead to the MO, or did the MO lead to the mental state? Did

our life

circumstances generate both mental as well as MO issues for us?>>>

This is a subject near and dear to my heart for a lot of reasons. I went to

many a " diet doctor " for the proverbial diet pills and all the knowledge

that a doctor is supposed to know about such things. Well, silly me, the

last time I went this route, I went to this one guy every week....to the

tune of $60/week, to be weighed and to get a fresh supply of whatever pills

he was pushing that week and to get the weekly lecture about how to lose

weight. After 6 months, I had a net gain of 4 pounds. I was of course

crushed, but the doc tried to encourage me. I had been seeing this doc out

of my network, but then found out I could change and this guy could be my

regular PCP. I went through all the rigamarole to make the change and it

became effective right at the time of the 6 month weigh in. The couple of

days later, I got a letter in the mail from this doctor telling me that he

was refusing to be my new PCP because I could not follow his program. What

a crock....he was just p*ssed because he was only going to get my co-pay and

not the big bucks I'd been shelling out every week. Needless to say, I was

devistated and it kicked my depression into high gear for a few weeks. When

I did feel a bit better, I started researching WLS, found a surgeon, made

the appointment and started through all the processes that this particular

surgeon required. Then came the Psych review. The shrink that this surgeon

used was about 90 pounds soaking wet with her hair shaved like a man's and

showed up at my appointment wearing the tightest leather pants I'd ever

seen. We proceeded to " talk " about my weight issues and I told her of my

dilemma with the last diet doc I'd been to. Things seemed to go ok. Then

the wait for the results of all the tests, and wait to hear from the surgeon

about a date. I called weekly for over 3 months.....they kept telling me

one story after another. Finally, someone finally told me that there was a

" problem " with my psych evaluation. After dodging my phone messages, I

finally got through to this lady who proceeded to tell me that she thought I

was too depressed to have surgery. I had flunked the psych evaluation!!!

How crazy was that.......depressed because I was too fat, but too depressed

to have surgery to help me get " un-fat " !!!! The irony of it all was such a

crock! I was begging for help from any one in the medical profession, in

the way I thought I should be doing it, and not only was I depressed because

I was fat and getting fatter, but I couldn't get anyone to help me either.

Fortunately, I did have a Plan B, it's now almost 4 years since my WLS, I've

lost 150 pounds, have kept it off, have been off antidepressants for the

last 4 years, and feel fantastic. Some of the depression could have been

hormonal, as I am post menopausal finally, but the fat, the dieting, the

continued weight gain, and just the futility of it all including reaching

out to the medical profession for help was enough to keep me in depression

mode for years.

Judi

4/24/00

January 1, 2004

I agree, Jacque, and the situations can be very different. I had an alcoholic

father. I was so confident I knew how it affected my Mom, brothers and our

family dynamic as a whole, but I actually thought it had not affected me until a

wise counselor started bringing that out. We all have something. Some of us wear

it on our sleeves for the world to see, some of us keep it inside, and some of

us don't even know we have it. But all of us have something. The affect of that

something for some of us can be MO, as I think it is for me.

Sharon in D.C.