Re: protein for the no longer newbie

[Guest guest]

i just had my year check up with my doctor and asked him this very question.

he said 45 grams of protein minimum per day for women who had the proximal

rny (which i did)

which is down from the 70 grams i was told by him to take in the first year.

i also asked if taking more would be harmful in any way and he said no

he said to strive for balance using protein first followed by veggies then

fruit

but if you only eat 45 grams of protein and then would eat the other 25

grams as sugar then stick with the 70 grams of protein for heaven's sake

this made sense to me

protein for the no longer newbie

As I've said before my Dr. never really pushed a protein shakes and

all just to eat protein first. Now I'm wondering. Is there a magic

number I should aim for at 13 months out? How much protein would

you consider enough? Does the amount decrease as you get furthre out

or increase? I'm going this weekend as I'm out shopping to pick up

some protein shakes. Is there a favorite amoung the group?

I'm praying that this will curb my hunger.

Thank you so much

tina terry

RNY -88

Ohio

Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/25/2003 10:50:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,

Graduate-OSSG writes:

> . I

> have a scientific background and have always liked to have studies to back

> up every thing I thought, but with personal experience, knowledge about what

> a body needs in general even pre-op, and logic, I do not feel I need a study

> to confirm that this is the way to go.

Sherra

I'm so with you on this one. I'm almost 7 weeks into my recovery from my

third bowel obstruction and surgery to repair it and I am malnourished. I left

the hospital with a feeding tube for the first five weeks because my pouch

could simply not take in on its own (even with protein shakes) what I needed to

rebuild. Before this last bowel obstruction, I took in 2 to 3 protein shakes a

day. I'm trying to take in at least 4 a day now (I'm a long proximal being

bypassed 150 cm) to get my albumen and pre-albumen (protein) levels up. It is

my opinion that protein shakes are vital to our long term health. I'm also

challenged with a statement that we don't need water and that 2 liters of diet

soda a day is okay. Having been dehydrated as well as malnourished, I can tell

you that, in my opinion, we absolutely do need water. Our kidneys can use

some of the fluid from other liquids, but they first have to process out the

water...that takes energy and work on the part of your kidneys and liver.

Energy

and work that could be better spent doing other things. Our bodies absolutely

do need water - whether tap or from a bottle - they need pure water.

Sandy

Boca Raton, FL

postop ~ 03/27/02

265/113/125

[Guest guest]

You should not need to take protein supplements. The only study done on

gastric bypass patients and protein intake followed a group of patients

for their first 12 post op months. The study found that they did not

eat enough protein and they were slightly protein deficient. Well,

duh??? There is not a single study that shows the need for long term

protein supplementation. Just make sure that protein is the main part

of each meal and that should do it.

Ray Hooks

For WLS nutrition info, visit

http://www.bariatricsupplementsystem.com

tina and jeff terry wrote:

>

> As I've said before my Dr. never really pushed a protein shakes and

> all just to eat protein first. Now I'm wondering. Is there a magic

> number I should aim for at 13 months out? How much protein would

> you consider enough? Does the amount decrease as you get furthre out

> or increase? I'm going this weekend as I'm out shopping to pick up

> some protein shakes. Is there a favorite amoung the group?

>

> I'm praying that this will curb my hunger.

>

> Thank you so much

> tina terry

> RNY -88

> Ohio

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It comes down to two things I think.

1) what is absorbed/how much is absorbed

A gastric bypass patient is bypassed, and some malnourishment is going to

happen - we know this as fact. A pouch is only so big and can only hold so

much food at a time - this is also a fact. It only stands to reason that

one would know they would need to get the best bioavailable protein into

them. If it's in a supplement /shrug not really worth arguing over is it?

hehe.

2) how much work do I want my liver to go through screening all the protein.

I'd like it to take a rest. Predigested whey breaks down before the liver

from my understanding.

There are some things that I just do not want to chance, especially when I

have experienced them first hand and seeing my health go up with the use of

the protein supplements over just regular food has proven that to me. I

have a scientific background and have always liked to have studies to back

up every thing I thought, but with personal experience, knowledge about what

a body needs in general even pre-op, and logic, I do not feel I need a study

to confirm that this is the way to go. There are not many studies period

and I'm frankly not sure how good/solid a study would be with such a wide

variety of after care out there as well as the many different operations out

there.

To each his own and I can certainly respect that we have different

philosophies - we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one .

Sherra

Re: protein for the no longer newbie

> You should not need to take protein supplements. The only study done on

> gastric bypass patients and protein intake followed a group of patients

> for their first 12 post op months. The study found that they did not

> eat enough protein and they were slightly protein deficient. Well,

> duh??? There is not a single study that shows the need for long term

> protein supplementation. Just make sure that protein is the main part

> of each meal and that should do it.

>

> Ray Hooks

> For WLS nutrition info, visit

> http://www.bariatricsupplementsystem.com

>

> tina and jeff terry wrote:

> >

> > As I've said before my Dr. never really pushed a protein shakes and

> > all just to eat protein first. Now I'm wondering. Is there a magic

> > number I should aim for at 13 months out? How much protein would

> > you consider enough? Does the amount decrease as you get furthre out

> > or increase? I'm going this weekend as I'm out shopping to pick up

> > some protein shakes. Is there a favorite amoung the group?

> >

> > I'm praying that this will curb my hunger.

> >

> > Thank you so much

> > tina terry

> > RNY -88

> > Ohio

> >

> > Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

> >

> > Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Jac,

I can agree with you...I am 4 months post op from my surgery

(revision)...original surgery in 1992...stomach stappling...

In the beginning of this surgery I had problems with two leaks...in the

hospital for 3 weeks...Now I find myself literally dumping from fats and

sugars...so I have just gone by what is working for me...and now that is " boca "

products

since they are mostly 70% less fat...and my diet drinks are with very little

" diet " sugars...as I cannot handle them either....I supplement my protein by

choice...as I know that I CANNOT get the required amounts in for myself....I

find that this is what is working for ME...it took me awhile with this...but I

found too am doing just well...

I agree with you....one has to find what is working best for their bodies....

Joy....

[Guest guest]

Well, I can't agree with you. Everybody is different. When I had surgery, it

was new. And I wasn't given any instructions about diet other than

basically, " stop before you get sick. " And I knew EXACTLY when that was. I

never had any problems in 21 years, except I WOULD dump on sugar, so I

didn't eat it, and I didn't drink sodas any more. They made me hurt worse

than anything. I wasn't given a list of vitamins or supplements to take. I

took a multivitamin, when I remembered it. I drank water when I was thirsty,

and I never drank with meals, because it would make me throw up. Nobody told

me that. I just knew, after a time or two, to NOT DO IT. I was not a " true "

RNY at the time, because there was no true RNY. I had a vertical 30 cc

pouch, approx. 150 cm proximal. I have my surgical records, and I called my

now retired surgeon to ask him before my gall bladder out, and he explained

it to me. When they took my gall bladder out, the surgeon converted me to a

" true " RNY, by taking out the jejeunal loop. It was NOT because I was

gaining weight, or was not at goal. It was because it was making me have

bile reflux. I went from 315 to 145 and stayed there until this day. Nobody

told me to drink any kind of shakes, or restrict carbs. I never have taken

shakes, and I eat high protein because too many carbs make me dump or make

me lethargic. I listened to my body. I never even had a set of labs run

until 3 years ago. They were fine. I had them done every six months since.

Still no problems. And I haven't had a single problem. I am a healthy,

active woman of 47, run a 20 horse farm and a home business on my own. I

have done it for most of 22 years. And I do it now, because my husband of

merely 4 years is out of the country for the next year or so, and my

ex-husband was gone for 5 days a week, on the road. I am rarely ill. I have

Reynaud's syndrome, but It is inherited. 3 generations that I know of. I

have Epstein Barr, but that is a virus, and usually in remission. I am also

major depressive and on medication for it. None of those things are weight

related, and usually don't slow me down much. Am I the exception to all the

weight rules? No, but I am not the same as every other person who has had

WLS. For anyone to say you HAVE to take supplements, you HAVE to drink

protein drinks, you HAVE to do one thing or another is wrong. All you HAVE

to do is your research, and find what works for you. I went through 8

doctors in 3 years before I could get one to actually check my gall bladder,

and yep, it needed to come out. It took the last one to listen to me when I

told them I was throwing up bile, and not dumping, to check it. All the

others told me to " watch my diet. " (Oh yeah, she's another one of those

by-pass people.) Since I had my surgery in July, I have not had one single

" dumping " incident. And I can eat ice cream and dairy products that I

couldn't in over 21 years. I don't. It's not my habit anymore. But I can, if

I want to, and enjoy it.

I hope I don't sound too angry. I'm really not. I just don't like blanket

observations.

Jac

http://www.pictureitdigitaldesigns.com/

http://members.cox.net/XXXFARMPAINTS

mail to: jholdaway@...

Order a BRAT 2004 calendar today at:

http://www.basenjirescue.org/calendarcontest/

Re: Protein for the no longer newbie

In a message dated 11/25/2003 10:50:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,

Graduate-OSSG writes:

> . I

> have a scientific background and have always liked to have studies to back

> up every thing I thought, but with personal experience, knowledge about

what

> a body needs in general even pre-op, and logic, I do not feel I need a

study

> to confirm that this is the way to go.

Sherra

I'm so with you on this one. I'm almost 7 weeks into my recovery from my

third bowel obstruction and surgery to repair it and I am malnourished. I

left

the hospital with a feeding tube for the first five weeks because my pouch

could simply not take in on its own (even with protein shakes) what I needed

to

rebuild. Before this last bowel obstruction, I took in 2 to 3 protein

shakes a

day. I'm trying to take in at least 4 a day now (I'm a long proximal being

bypassed 150 cm) to get my albumen and pre-albumen (protein) levels up. It

is

my opinion that protein shakes are vital to our long term health. I'm also

challenged with a statement that we don't need water and that 2 liters of

diet

soda a day is okay. Having been dehydrated as well as malnourished, I can

tell

you that, in my opinion, we absolutely do need water. Our kidneys can use

some of the fluid from other liquids, but they first have to process out the

water...that takes energy and work on the part of your kidneys and liver.

Energy

and work that could be better spent doing other things. Our bodies

absolutely

do need water - whether tap or from a bottle - they need pure water.

Sandy

Boca Raton, FL

postop ~ 03/27/02

265/113/125

[Guest guest]

>> There is not a single study that shows the need for long term

> protein supplementation. Just make sure that protein is the main part

> of each meal and that should do it.

I don't need a study to know what my body does when I don't get enough

protein, and I'm sure there are a few dozen people on this list who could

say the same. I'm nearly 4 years post-op, and if I go even a few days

without protein SUPPLEMENTS, the protein in the food I eat is not nearly

enough to keep me healthy. And I do eat meat, cheese, eggs, etc. My hair

shows it almost immediately, my skin and nails follow close behind, in just

plain losing their healthy condition. Not to mention I start to get tired

all the time and generally feel like death could not come soon enough.

I've met literally hundreds of post-ops in person, and I can tell the

successes from the failures from a distance. I sat in a restaurant this

summer with a whole bunch of successes, and every one of them uses protein

supplements. They looked healthy and WHOLE, not starved. There IS a

difference, and I could care less if someone has done a study or not, I have

EYES, and can see for myself, and IN myself, that there is a need for

protein supplements, and I am VERY proximal!

If you don't want to take protein, don't take it. For me, I care about my

health, and I care about what I tell others that may affect their health. I

don't sell anything, I have nothing to gain by promoting supplements of any

kind. I'm very concerned that incomplete and incorrect information can

damage lives.

~~ Lyn G

[Guest guest]

I feel like a success and yes do protein suppliments in the form of

protein bars made from whey and soy protein. Have used them since

about 3 months out because I needed to eat something on the run and

wanted to optimize what I ate. I eat at least 1 a day often 2 and am

usually 99% compliant with food in general. At $2.40 each it's a

commitment to me.

My bf is a ballet dancer and is very impressed by how well these

protein bars help him get physically " up " so he performs better.

I didn't go through hell to mess it up.

Just got back from my annual with my obgyn - she told me soy food

helps with hot flashes and may be because I eat soy foods often I am

not getting hot flashes. Another good reason to eat right. (lots of

great fun recipies out there on the web for soy tofu)

my 2 cents

CAT

Dr W - Alvarado 2/5/2002

232/104

> As I've said before my Dr. never really pushed a protein shakes and

> all just to eat protein first. Now I'm wondering. Is there a

magic

> number I should aim for at 13 months out? How much protein would

> you consider enough? Does the amount decrease as you get furthre

out

> or increase? I'm going this weekend as I'm out shopping to pick up

> some protein shakes. Is there a favorite amoung the group?

>

> I'm praying that this will curb my hunger.

>

> Thank you so much

> tina terry

> RNY -88

> Ohio

[Guest guest]

Depression has many causes.

It can definitely be diet related...you betcha. A lot of articles I read

suggest it has a lot to do (note always of course) with diet (includes

vitamins) and weight but docs prescribe stuff because it's just much easier

to do that than to tell ppl what to do with the stuff they put in their

mouth. To say it could not be a result of weight or diet is incorrect, that

is something very hard to prove unless you are in a case study and watched

closely. Because things run in your family doesn't mean that something in

your diet didn't " set it off " . Most docs will tell you this as well. Genes

and family history aren't absolutes that one will in turn get it. While one

may have a predisposition by genes to develop a disease, they are triggered

events by something whether that be diet, exposure to something, etc.

This stuff I have come across in many many readings. This is why you can't

make absolutes either on causal relations of this to that. Some things you

just can't prove what is related to what. I am glad the stuff is working

for you the way you have it set up. I think it's definitely important that

one finds what works for themselves otherwise the people won't do it. It

has not worked for me like that. It ended me up in the hospital which was

serious enough to me to make sure that I atleast get the word out to folks

in case they find the same thing going on with them. I went to support

group meetings, and watched one by one as they had problems and the answers

just didn't answer things and people got sicker which later leads me to

believe this is probably an abundant part of the population of wls. Of

course I realize this is a guess but after being a part of this group and

hearing people's case studies, it only reaffirms my position on where I

stand anyway. This is no way shape or form was written to put anyone down,

but to just point out a point of view.

Sherra

Re: Protein for the no longer newbie

>

> In a message dated 11/25/2003 10:50:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> Graduate-OSSG writes:

>

>

> > . I

> > have a scientific background and have always liked to have studies to

back

> > up every thing I thought, but with personal experience, knowledge about

> what

> > a body needs in general even pre-op, and logic, I do not feel I need a

> study

> > to confirm that this is the way to go.

>

> Sherra

>

> I'm so with you on this one. I'm almost 7 weeks into my recovery from my

> third bowel obstruction and surgery to repair it and I am malnourished. I

> left

> the hospital with a feeding tube for the first five weeks because my pouch

> could simply not take in on its own (even with protein shakes) what I

needed

> to

> rebuild. Before this last bowel obstruction, I took in 2 to 3 protein

> shakes a

> day. I'm trying to take in at least 4 a day now (I'm a long proximal

being

> bypassed 150 cm) to get my albumen and pre-albumen (protein) levels up.

It

> is

> my opinion that protein shakes are vital to our long term health. I'm

also

> challenged with a statement that we don't need water and that 2 liters of

> diet

> soda a day is okay. Having been dehydrated as well as malnourished, I can

> tell

> you that, in my opinion, we absolutely do need water. Our kidneys can use

> some of the fluid from other liquids, but they first have to process out

the

> water...that takes energy and work on the part of your kidneys and liver.

> Energy

> and work that could be better spent doing other things. Our bodies

> absolutely

> do need water - whether tap or from a bottle - they need pure water.

>

> Sandy

> Boca Raton, FL

> postop ~ 03/27/02

> 265/113/125

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am a year and a half out from RNY and have never taken a protein

supplement. I eat a high protein diet, my labs are good, my hair and nails

are beautiful once again and I do not looked " starved " at all. Protein

supplements are good for some people but I have never needed them and don't

plan on using them ever. I don't like them, I don't like the taste of any

one of them I've ever tried and they don't sit well in my stomach. I eat

right and I am healthy. I don't need a supplement to do that. They may be

what you need, but not all of us need them to be healthy.

:-)

Open RNY June 4th, 2002

Cleveland Center for Bariatric Surgery

Dr. Sonpal

285/140/where ever my body decides to stop!!

> >> There is not a single study that shows the need for long term

> > protein supplementation. Just make sure that protein is the main part

> > of each meal and that should do it.

>

> I don't need a study to know what my body does when I don't get enough

> protein, and I'm sure there are a few dozen people on this list who could

> say the same. I'm nearly 4 years post-op, and if I go even a few days

> without protein SUPPLEMENTS, the protein in the food I eat is not nearly

> enough to keep me healthy. And I do eat meat, cheese, eggs, etc. My hair

> shows it almost immediately, my skin and nails follow close behind, in

just

> plain losing their healthy condition. Not to mention I start to get tired

> all the time and generally feel like death could not come soon enough.

>

> I've met literally hundreds of post-ops in person, and I can tell the

> successes from the failures from a distance. I sat in a restaurant this

> summer with a whole bunch of successes, and every one of them uses protein

> supplements. They looked healthy and WHOLE, not starved. There IS a

> difference, and I could care less if someone has done a study or not, I

have

> EYES, and can see for myself, and IN myself, that there is a need for

> protein supplements, and I am VERY proximal!

>

> If you don't want to take protein, don't take it. For me, I care about my

> health, and I care about what I tell others that may affect their health.

I

> don't sell anything, I have nothing to gain by promoting supplements of

any

> kind. I'm very concerned that incomplete and incorrect information can

> damage lives.

>

> ~~ Lyn G

[Guest guest]

Ray do you have specifics on this study? I would like to read it for myself

if possible. Thanks, Lucille

In a message dated 11/25/2003 10:50:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,

Graduate-OSSG writes:

>

> You should not need to take protein supplements. The only study done on

> gastric bypass patients and protein intake followed a group of patients

> for their first 12 post op months. The study found that they did not

> eat enough protein and they were slightly protein deficient. Well,

> duh??? There is not a single study that shows the need for long term

> protein supplementation. Just make sure that protein is the main part

> of each meal and that should do it.

>

> Ray Hooks

>

[Guest guest]

Ok...I confess. My reason for taking protein supplements is just

plain FEAR!!

Had a friend who was bypassed a few years ago and had substantial

bounce-back weight. She never drank shakes, she ate sugar and junk

from the get-go and when she was scoped they found something like a

pouch attached to the pouch (upper intestine dialated)! Her body

was so malnourished it generated a way to absorb more nutrients and

she was hungry most of the time but did not know why.

I decided that I would do " damage-control " and stay offa sugar, do

the low carb thing but give my body plenty of protein (specially

seeing that I am " muscle-goil " per Ceep.) I do NOT want my body

seeking ways to nourish itself.

Sheesh...what can it hurt? The medical community has hurt us TONS

of times in it lack of knowledge and testing until years down the

road it finally makes a sheepish admission about something they

should have protected us from. (like growth hormones being used by

greeding farmers, any wonder 1 in 8 of us develope some sort of

cancer.)

Comeon...cigarettes are still on the market because they are the

largest lobby group in Washington and it would put too many people

out of work to abolish them, yet they are responsible for so many

deaths and soaring hospital costs. Your government at work.

Have fat people ever been considered important enough for expensive

testing for answers to our condition?

Carol G.

> Ray do you have specifics on this study? I would like to read it

for myself

> if possible. Thanks, Lucille

>

> In a message dated 11/25/2003 10:50:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> Graduate-OSSG writes:

>

>

>

> >

> > You should not need to take protein supplements. The only study

done on

> > gastric bypass patients and protein intake followed a group of

patients

> > for their first 12 post op months. The study found that they

did not

> > eat enough protein and they were slightly protein deficient.

Well,

> > duh??? There is not a single study that shows the need for long

term

> > protein supplementation. Just make sure that protein is the

main part

> > of each meal and that should do it.

> >

> > Ray Hooks

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

He's not young (49) and suffers from injuries often. He's very

grounded in what's important in life and is not into himself a great

deal. His dancing and working out at the gym with me in tow is good

for me too. He is a good example and great workout buddy. Helps

keep me from being a lazy bum.

BUT he's a sugar addict which I find hilarous. He's one of " those "

people, eats like a horse, has trouble keeping his weight up and

loves the goodies. Life has some interesting twists.

I find it very delightful to gaze upon his perfection.

CAT

> Oh oh don't tempt me! You might find a vomitous tofu lasagna

recipe comin'

> your way .... I am feeling VERY impish this morning!

>

> Seriously CAT! I have to ask you how you cope with a ballet dance

BF and

> his physical perfection? It would drive me completely nutso! A

few weeks ago

> we went to a recital of the Martha Graham Dance Company and I just

sat there

> astonished and envious and completely enthralled by the absolutely

magnificent

> bodies on these dancers. I enjoyed the program enormously, but I

whined &

> moaned under my breath to my husband " oh why can't I have that ass

and those

> legs ... WHY WHY WHY!!!! " ROFL! It was pathetic! He just

shook his head

> and sighed. What's a lad to do?

>

> If I had to roll over every morning and see it up close and

personal, I'd

> probably spend the rest of the day in tears! LOLOLOL!

>

> Signed,

> Someone who is seriously jealous of CAT and her proximity to an

Adonis!

>

> Lucille

>

>

> In a message dated 11/25/2003 6:20:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> Graduate-OSSG writes:

>

>

> > Another good reason to eat right. (lots of

> > great fun recipies out there on the web for soy tofu)

> >

> > my 2 cents

> >

> > CAT

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

No. It's easier to blame us for our condition. Hence the concept that

protein deficiency develops because those fat people, you can't do a thing

with them, like make them eat.

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

Re:Re: protein for the no longer newbie

> Ok...I confess. My reason for taking protein supplements is just

> plain FEAR!!

>

> Had a friend who was bypassed a few years ago and had substantial

> bounce-back weight. She never drank shakes, she ate sugar and junk

> from the get-go and when she was scoped they found something like a

> pouch attached to the pouch (upper intestine dialated)! Her body

> was so malnourished it generated a way to absorb more nutrients and

> she was hungry most of the time but did not know why.

>

> I decided that I would do " damage-control " and stay offa sugar, do

> the low carb thing but give my body plenty of protein (specially

> seeing that I am " muscle-goil " per Ceep.) I do NOT want my body

> seeking ways to nourish itself.

>

> Sheesh...what can it hurt? The medical community has hurt us TONS

> of times in it lack of knowledge and testing until years down the

> road it finally makes a sheepish admission about something they

> should have protected us from. (like growth hormones being used by

> greeding farmers, any wonder 1 in 8 of us develope some sort of

> cancer.)

>

> Comeon...cigarettes are still on the market because they are the

> largest lobby group in Washington and it would put too many people

> out of work to abolish them, yet they are responsible for so many

> deaths and soaring hospital costs. Your government at work.

>

> Have fat people ever been considered important enough for expensive

> testing for answers to our condition?

>

> Carol G.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > Ray do you have specifics on this study? I would like to read it

> for myself

> > if possible. Thanks, Lucille

> >

> > In a message dated 11/25/2003 10:50:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> > Graduate-OSSG writes:

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > You should not need to take protein supplements. The only study

> done on

> > > gastric bypass patients and protein intake followed a group of

> patients

> > > for their first 12 post op months. The study found that they

> did not

> > > eat enough protein and they were slightly protein deficient.

> Well,

> > > duh??? There is not a single study that shows the need for long

> term

> > > protein supplementation. Just make sure that protein is the

> main part

> > > of each meal and that should do it.

> > >

> > > Ray Hooks

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >