Re: need to vent this sad, helpless feeling

[Guest guest]

Kim,

I wish I knew your daughter better. Both myself and my mom were overweight

for most of our lives. I know now it must have been excruciating for her to

see me like that and how it would be for me throughout my life. My mom was

the type to step back...and hand out advice when I would say something about

my health. I was always the type to be stubborn and discount stuff she

would say. Rebellious I know. My mom had this operation done and 4 years

later I did it.

Well there came a point when I saw how not only thin she was but how healthy

she was. I had exhausted every diet known to man and I knew I wasn't going

to get any better. With the then recent death of my aunt from diabetes and

my father JUST being diagnosed, I knew I was in huge trouble. I know

throughout the few years I would make comments like: I am so tired all the

time..or I just can't fathom another diet..I can't seem to do anything right

to keep weight off...and the like. My mom would take those opportunities to

say, yah I know, I had that same feeling and it is why I had to finally do

something about it. My mom always has the attitude that when you get sick

of it, you will finally do something. That may be where she has yet to go.

Maybe you can look for those opportunities and look at it as " seed planting "

so that when she finally has " had it " with her situation, she'll hear your

words in her head. I remember my mom exclaiming over the phone how happy

she was that her blood work came out healthy. She would even send me a copy

haha she was so excited. I, of course, didn't quite understand the big deal

but it did make an impression on me when I saw how compliant she was and I

saw the road I was heading was going to be bad numbers if I took a blood

test. Maybe be extra energetic around her as well? I can still recall this

one time, I was sitting on the couch with my 300 lb body..aching and always

tired..and here is my thin mother asking me if I minded if she cleaned my

house (she was over visiting LOL). I said sure go for it and watched her

with amazement...this was the 330lb woman I grew up with couldn't sit down

for the life of her now that she had lost half of herself. After awhile, I

WANTED SOME OF THAT! It all built up to one day me just saying..enough! I

hate the way I am so I'm changing it.

I wish you the best, I know it has to be hard. Just be a good example to her

and share in a caring way. It's probably just a matter of time before she

realizes that it's either do this or a myriad of other surgeries will be her

fate like an organ going bad or her knees giving out. At some point you are

forced onto some road due to obesity and it would be nice to choose which

road instead. In my case, it took a family death, a family disease

diagnosis, and 4 years of thinking and I finally did it.

Sherra

need to vent this sad, helpless feeling

> I have a daughter who is 19 and married. When I had my RNY in Feb 02, she

> was a normal 17 yr old girl....healthy, not in the least bit heavy. She

was in

> the low 140's. Perfect for her. has gradually put on weight. I

> think she might be around 190. She is 5'2 " . I am in pain watching her.

She knows

> that I love her no matter what she looks like. She has mentioned her

weight

> once or twice....asked for advice on occasion, but shows no sign of really

> doing anything about it. She is experiencing knee pain. She looks

bloated. Her

> clothes are too tight and I am scared watching her. Bottom line....it

hurts

> to watch her because I can feel the weight. I wish I could make a deal

with

> someone and switch bodies with her. I know this is not something I can do

for

> her, but I wish I could help her.

> I don't know what the answer is, but if I don't express this...it

> will turn in to a binge for sure. Thanks for listening. As

usual.....Kim O

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/28/2003 12:34:05 AM Eastern Standard Time,

jholdaway@... writes:

The only way I can kinda sorta comfort myself is to say that had I not been

SO sick and had to fight SO hard to get it, I might not be so appreicative

of it. Or so I tell me to compensate for all the years I spent miserable.

========================================

Yea, I have always been told that to feel complete joy, you must have had to

feel all that pain. I am not so sure this is true. I know very happy people

who never had to go through with the misery. :0)

Fay Bayuk

**300/172

10/23/01

Dr.

Open RNY 150 cm

Click for My Profile

http://obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/profile.phtml?N=Bayuk951061008

[Guest guest]

I just read this wonderful thread. You ladies are so wise. I just woke up

from a short sleep determine to detox from my popcorn habit. Last night I made

popcorn after being so full from dinner, such an addict, half way through the

bag I threw up and then proceeded to finish the bag. Now this perfect thread

to reinforce me. I am doing this one minute at a time, one hour at a time.

I know everyone is there with me and I appreciate it. My plan, pickles and

gum.

Fay Bayuk

**300/172

10/23/01

Dr.

Open RNY 150 cm

Click for My Profile

http://obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/profile.phtml?N=Bayuk951061008

[Guest guest]

My son is probably 90# over. His wife is 5'3 " , maybe 400#? Her parents are

the same. They have the right ins, in fact double coverage. My step-dtr is

now 100+# over. SHE had the right insurance and she lived with us for

awhile, so she KNOWS the drill. It's not that hard.

I cannot understand how they can be around us, after watching us go from

" large " to " WAY too large " and then to the normal body weight we never had,

and not want to do it too. It is beyond my comprehension when they saw how

sick we were and how sick we are not now.

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

need to vent this sad, helpless feeling

>

>

> > I have a daughter who is 19 and married. When I had my RNY in Feb 02,

she

> > was a normal 17 yr old girl....healthy, not in the least bit heavy. She

> was in

> > the low 140's. Perfect for her. has gradually put on weight.

I

> > think she might be around 190. She is 5'2 " . I am in pain watching her.

> She knows

> > that I love her no matter what she looks like. She has mentioned her

> weight

> > once or twice....asked for advice on occasion, but shows no sign of

really

> > doing anything about it. She is experiencing knee pain. She looks

> bloated. Her

> > clothes are too tight and I am scared watching her. Bottom line....it

> hurts

> > to watch her because I can feel the weight. I wish I could make a deal

> with

> > someone and switch bodies with her. I know this is not something I can

do

> for

> > her, but I wish I could help her.

> > I don't know what the answer is, but if I don't express

this...it

> > will turn in to a binge for sure. Thanks for listening. As

> usual.....Kim O

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

, you know perfectly well that obesity is not just physical illness.

It is very much a mental illness as well, and denial is a symptom of that

disease. And we have all been there, at varying points, in our lives before

we got where we are now in our recovery. Nobody could fix us but ourselves

until we were ready to be fixed. And as painful as it is to watch it, that's

what is going to have to happen for them, as well. Just keep giving your

support and well-grounded advice, but don't expect results until they are

ready to take the necessary steps.

I know, I'm preaching to the choir. LOL

Love,

Jac

http://www.pictureitdigitaldesigns.com/

http://members.cox.net/XXXFARMPAINTS

mail to: jholdaway@...

Order a BRAT 2004 calendar today at:

http://www.basenjirescue.org/calendarcontest/

Re: need to vent this sad, helpless feeling

My son is probably 90# over. His wife is 5'3 " , maybe 400#? Her parents are

the same. They have the right ins, in fact double coverage. My step-dtr is

now 100+# over. SHE had the right insurance and she lived with us for

awhile, so she KNOWS the drill. It's not that hard.

I cannot understand how they can be around us, after watching us go from

" large " to " WAY too large " and then to the normal body weight we never had,

and not want to do it too. It is beyond my comprehension when they saw how

sick we were and how sick we are not now.

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

need to vent this sad, helpless feeling

>

>

> > I have a daughter who is 19 and married. When I had my RNY in Feb 02,

she

> > was a normal 17 yr old girl....healthy, not in the least bit heavy. She

> was in

> > the low 140's. Perfect for her. has gradually put on weight.

I

> > think she might be around 190. She is 5'2 " . I am in pain watching her.

> She knows

> > that I love her no matter what she looks like. She has mentioned her

> weight

> > once or twice....asked for advice on occasion, but shows no sign of

really

> > doing anything about it. She is experiencing knee pain. She looks

> bloated. Her

> > clothes are too tight and I am scared watching her. Bottom line....it

> hurts

> > to watch her because I can feel the weight. I wish I could make a deal

> with

> > someone and switch bodies with her. I know this is not something I can

do

> for

> > her, but I wish I could help her.

> > I don't know what the answer is, but if I don't express

this...it

> > will turn in to a binge for sure. Thanks for listening. As

> usual.....Kim O

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes, denial. And it can be both. And certainly genetic. None of these kids

ever stood a chance at not being obese. 100% obesity, both sides. My

step-dtr's mother, father (Don) and step-mom (me) have all had surgery. Not

the same doc, not the same program, not the same result, but still, we've

all done it.

My son is stepping along after his father, diet and exercise, just too lazy

to do it. BUT my ex died at 49 of his cholesterol., basically. And he was

only 100# over. So, for him, tomorrow didn't come one day. So, the diet

and exercise worked as well as it had for 49 yrs. His real feeling was that

he could eat anything and just lift wts to cancel it out. sigh. And mine

was to not eat any food at all. LOL! Is it any wonder we were ex's?

I watch my son and can almost SEE the chemicals at work in him. Amazing.

And my grandson. They stufff him at meals, and graze him betweeen. No

distinction between garbage and good foods. I spend a LOT of time sitting on

my lips, I assure you. It stresses me to the max that this poor boy has all

the genes, and absolutely NO tools to even help control it til he can get

old enough to make decisions. AAAAAAAAAAAAAA! BTW, he was at the top end

of his wt range by 4 months, but at that time, they were feeding him by the

book, pretty much, so the genetics showed up early. My family genetics were

all age 6 onset.

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

need to vent this sad, helpless feeling

> >

> >

> > > I have a daughter who is 19 and married. When I had my RNY in Feb 02,

> she

> > > was a normal 17 yr old girl....healthy, not in the least bit heavy.

She

> > was in

> > > the low 140's. Perfect for her. has gradually put on weight.

> I

> > > think she might be around 190. She is 5'2 " . I am in pain watching

her.

> > She knows

> > > that I love her no matter what she looks like. She has mentioned her

> > weight

> > > once or twice....asked for advice on occasion, but shows no sign of

> really

> > > doing anything about it. She is experiencing knee pain. She looks

> > bloated. Her

> > > clothes are too tight and I am scared watching her. Bottom line....it

> > hurts

> > > to watch her because I can feel the weight. I wish I could make a

deal

> > with

> > > someone and switch bodies with her. I know this is not something I

can

> do

> > for

> > > her, but I wish I could help her.

> > > I don't know what the answer is, but if I don't express

> this...it

> > > will turn in to a binge for sure. Thanks for listening. As

> > usual.....Kim O

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I think why I put it off is a few things.

Denial. I thought that maybe one more try at a diet would work...yet I had

no heart to DO another diet. You can only take so much rejection in life.

Had to come to terms with that. Well, when you do not want to talk to

yourself about this issue, it can take awhile LOL to convince yourself. We

have it pounded in our heads this is about willpower..society does this.

Very hard to turn around that thinking. People now look at me and go..wow

you have such willpower. I said are you joking? I'm more weak now than

ever cause I can't satisfy my cravings every single time. True I had to

draw some lines in my life on not buying junk - thankfully i feel like CRAP

if I do and that deters me from buying it. But I guarantee you I WILL eat

the food textures I crave if someone brought them over to me. If someone

brought me popcorn? I would eat 2 tubs of it NO joke. I credit protein

shakes for making my cravings under control chemically.

Also, scared. I had NEVER had anything happen to me ever. When I actually

saw someone I loved die...and another person I loved get diabetes, I was

like whoa......this is too real now. What's next for me?

Another thing is just pure ignorance....how does one get started. Sometimes

it can look like a daunting task to start out...and maybe they need just a

little bit of help.

Sherra

need to vent this sad, helpless feeling

> > >

> > >

> > > > I have a daughter who is 19 and married. When I had my RNY in Feb

02,

> > she

> > > > was a normal 17 yr old girl....healthy, not in the least bit heavy.

> She

> > > was in

> > > > the low 140's. Perfect for her. has gradually put on

weight.

> > I

> > > > think she might be around 190. She is 5'2 " . I am in pain watching

> her.

> > > She knows

> > > > that I love her no matter what she looks like. She has mentioned

her

> > > weight

> > > > once or twice....asked for advice on occasion, but shows no sign of

> > really

> > > > doing anything about it. She is experiencing knee pain. She looks

> > > bloated. Her

> > > > clothes are too tight and I am scared watching her. Bottom

line....it

> > > hurts

> > > > to watch her because I can feel the weight. I wish I could make a

> deal

> > > with

> > > > someone and switch bodies with her. I know this is not something I

> can

> > do

> > > for

> > > > her, but I wish I could help her.

> > > > I don't know what the answer is, but if I don't express

> > this...it

> > > > will turn in to a binge for sure. Thanks for listening. As

> > > usual.....Kim O

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

I knew someone who had surgery in 1976. I shudder to think which model it

might have been. BUT I moved, so did not see the final result.

I knew someone who had a VBG in 1985. He vomited edvery day and ate no

normal food at all. But he'd still lost 130#, even though he was still

round. Lived on Capn' Crunch and chips.

I STILL wanted it. Then I met someone who had it in 1993 and before she even

finished the sentence that her ins had paid (I always assumed it was for the

wealthy), I was running out the door with the ph# in my hand. I was dying,

could not breathe, diabetes lurking around the corner......... I'd been

fighting and losing the battles all my life. EVen when I GOT thin, I wasn't

thin. Just starving.

Took me 11 months to get on that table, but maybe all the desperation is

what has made me so RABID all these years?

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

need to vent this sad, helpless feeling

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > I have a daughter who is 19 and married. When I had my RNY in Feb

> 02,

> > > she

> > > > > was a normal 17 yr old girl....healthy, not in the least bit

heavy.

> > She

> > > > was in

> > > > > the low 140's. Perfect for her. has gradually put on

> weight.

> > > I

> > > > > think she might be around 190. She is 5'2 " . I am in pain

watching

> > her.

> > > > She knows

> > > > > that I love her no matter what she looks like. She has mentioned

> her

> > > > weight

> > > > > once or twice....asked for advice on occasion, but shows no sign

of

> > > really

> > > > > doing anything about it. She is experiencing knee pain. She

looks

> > > > bloated. Her

> > > > > clothes are too tight and I am scared watching her. Bottom

> line....it

> > > > hurts

> > > > > to watch her because I can feel the weight. I wish I could make

a

> > deal

> > > > with

> > > > > someone and switch bodies with her. I know this is not something

I

> > can

> > > do

> > > > for

> > > > > her, but I wish I could help her.

> > > > > I don't know what the answer is, but if I don't express

> > > this...it

> > > > > will turn in to a binge for sure. Thanks for listening. As

> > > > usual.....Kim O

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

<<1982. Never regretted it a minute.

Revised to " true " RNY July 2003.Still at 145. But not throwing up every day.

Jac

http://www.pictureitdigitaldesigns.com/

http://members.cox.net/XXXFARMPAINTS

mail to: jholdaway@...

Order a BRAT 2004 calendar today at:

http://www.basenjirescue.org/calendarcontest/

Re: need to vent this sad, helpless feeling

I knew someone who had surgery in 1976. I shudder to think which model it

might have been. BUT I moved, so did not see the final result.

I knew someone who had a VBG in 1985. He vomited edvery day and ate no

normal food at all. But he'd still lost 130#, even though he was still

round. Lived on Capn' Crunch and chips.

I STILL wanted it. Then I met someone who had it in 1993 and before she even

finished the sentence that her ins had paid (I always assumed it was for the

wealthy), I was running out the door with the ph# in my hand. I was dying,

could not breathe, diabetes lurking around the corner......... I'd been

fighting and losing the battles all my life. EVen when I GOT thin, I wasn't

thin. Just starving.

Took me 11 months to get on that table, but maybe all the desperation is

what has made me so RABID all these years?

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

need to vent this sad, helpless feeling

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > I have a daughter who is 19 and married. When I had my RNY in Feb

> 02,

> > > she

> > > > > was a normal 17 yr old girl....healthy, not in the least bit

heavy.

> > She

> > > > was in

> > > > > the low 140's. Perfect for her. has gradually put on

> weight.

> > > I

> > > > > think she might be around 190. She is 5'2 " . I am in pain

watching

> > her.

> > > > She knows

> > > > > that I love her no matter what she looks like. She has mentioned

> her

> > > > weight

> > > > > once or twice....asked for advice on occasion, but shows no sign

of

> > > really

> > > > > doing anything about it. She is experiencing knee pain. She

looks

> > > > bloated. Her

> > > > > clothes are too tight and I am scared watching her. Bottom

> line....it

> > > > hurts

> > > > > to watch her because I can feel the weight. I wish I could make

a

> > deal

> > > > with

> > > > > someone and switch bodies with her. I know this is not something

I

> > can

> > > do

> > > > for

> > > > > her, but I wish I could help her.

> > > > > I don't know what the answer is, but if I don't express

> > > this...it

> > > > > will turn in to a binge for sure. Thanks for listening. As

> > > > usual.....Kim O

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

The only way I can kinda sorta comfort myself is to say that had I not been

SO sick and had to fight SO hard to get it, I might not be so appreicative

of it. Or so I tell me to compensate for all the years I spent miserable.

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

need to vent this sad, helpless feeling

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > I have a daughter who is 19 and married. When I had my RNY in

Feb

> > 02,

> > > > she

> > > > > > was a normal 17 yr old girl....healthy, not in the least bit

> heavy.

> > > She

> > > > > was in

> > > > > > the low 140's. Perfect for her. has gradually put on

> > weight.

> > > > I

> > > > > > think she might be around 190. She is 5'2 " . I am in pain

> watching

> > > her.

> > > > > She knows

> > > > > > that I love her no matter what she looks like. She has

mentioned

> > her

> > > > > weight

> > > > > > once or twice....asked for advice on occasion, but shows no sign

> of

> > > > really

> > > > > > doing anything about it. She is experiencing knee pain. She

> looks

> > > > > bloated. Her

> > > > > > clothes are too tight and I am scared watching her. Bottom

> > line....it

> > > > > hurts

> > > > > > to watch her because I can feel the weight. I wish I could

make

> a

> > > deal

> > > > > with

> > > > > > someone and switch bodies with her. I know this is not

something

> I

> > > can

> > > > do

> > > > > for

> > > > > > her, but I wish I could help her.

> > > > > > I don't know what the answer is, but if I don't express

> > > > this...it

> > > > > > will turn in to a binge for sure. Thanks for listening. As

> > > > > usual.....Kim O

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

You are a guidepost for us all, and even though I don't follow all the

" rules " , I admire you to no end for your knowledge and wisdom.

Jac

http://www.pictureitdigitaldesigns.com/

http://members.cox.net/XXXFARMPAINTS

mail to: jholdaway@...

Order a BRAT 2004 calendar today at:

http://www.basenjirescue.org/calendarcontest/

Re: need to vent this sad, helpless feeling

The only way I can kinda sorta comfort myself is to say that had I not been

SO sick and had to fight SO hard to get it, I might not be so appreicative

of it. Or so I tell me to compensate for all the years I spent miserable.

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

need to vent this sad, helpless feeling

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > I have a daughter who is 19 and married. When I had my RNY in

Feb

> > 02,

> > > > she

> > > > > > was a normal 17 yr old girl....healthy, not in the least bit

> heavy.

> > > She

> > > > > was in

> > > > > > the low 140's. Perfect for her. has gradually put on

> > weight.

> > > > I

> > > > > > think she might be around 190. She is 5'2 " . I am in pain

> watching

> > > her.

> > > > > She knows

> > > > > > that I love her no matter what she looks like. She has

mentioned

> > her

> > > > > weight

> > > > > > once or twice....asked for advice on occasion, but shows no sign

> of

> > > > really

> > > > > > doing anything about it. She is experiencing knee pain. She

> looks

> > > > > bloated. Her

> > > > > > clothes are too tight and I am scared watching her. Bottom

> > line....it

> > > > > hurts

> > > > > > to watch her because I can feel the weight. I wish I could

make

> a

> > > deal

> > > > > with

> > > > > > someone and switch bodies with her. I know this is not

something

> I

> > > can

> > > > do

> > > > > for

> > > > > > her, but I wish I could help her.

> > > > > > I don't know what the answer is, but if I don't express

> > > > this...it

> > > > > > will turn in to a binge for sure. Thanks for listening. As

> > > > > usual.....Kim O

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Well, sometimes being a lil OCD can come in handy, you know? LOL!

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

need to vent this sad, helpless feeling

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have a daughter who is 19 and married. When I had my RNY in

> Feb

> > > 02,

> > > > > she

> > > > > > > was a normal 17 yr old girl....healthy, not in the least bit

> > heavy.

> > > > She

> > > > > > was in

> > > > > > > the low 140's. Perfect for her. has gradually put on

> > > weight.

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > think she might be around 190. She is 5'2 " . I am in pain

> > watching

> > > > her.

> > > > > > She knows

> > > > > > > that I love her no matter what she looks like. She has

> mentioned

> > > her

> > > > > > weight

> > > > > > > once or twice....asked for advice on occasion, but shows no

sign

> > of

> > > > > really

> > > > > > > doing anything about it. She is experiencing knee pain. She

> > looks

> > > > > > bloated. Her

> > > > > > > clothes are too tight and I am scared watching her. Bottom

> > > line....it

> > > > > > hurts

> > > > > > > to watch her because I can feel the weight. I wish I could

> make

> > a

> > > > deal

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > someone and switch bodies with her. I know this is not

> something

> > I

> > > > can

> > > > > do

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > her, but I wish I could help her.

> > > > > > > I don't know what the answer is, but if I don't

express

> > > > > this...it

> > > > > > > will turn in to a binge for sure. Thanks for listening.

As

> > > > > > usual.....Kim O

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

, I make these comments to you with respect and hope you take them in

the spirit that I what I am saying are my personal observations and opinions

about this subject, because I feel funny saying things that may seem directed

about someone's family.

Just as to the narrow question of why someone MO doesn't turn to wls, I think

the most obvious answer is FEAR. Fear not just of the surgery itself, but

fear regarding the " new " life after surgery. Personally, I considered this

surgery for about 3 years before I had it, and it was out of fear that I

stalled as long as I did. ULTIMATELY, and ironically, it was fear which

finally

put me on that operating table. Fear of death, which finally trumped fear of

the surgery and fear of the changes the surgery would bring about. So for me

I had to reach a point which is popularly referred to as " hitting bottom. "

Fear stopped me initially then it became my motivation. A pinch of

desperation didn't hurt either.

I think we all agree that for many of us there is a genetic component to

obesity, and to our sustaining obesity through life, and to our battles with

obesity. Our behavior adapts itself to our genetics??? okay. Follows a

" preset " biological propensity??? okay. But at some point I think we do

develop

an addiction (genetically triggered?? okay) but then the addiction takes on a

life of it's own. Addicts fall in love with their drug of choice. It gets

VERY hard to leave that behind. Even when it becomes one of love/hate.

One time I heard someone say, and I thought this was true, that heroin addicts

quite often overdose as a form of suicide in order to finally liberate

themselves from the drug, because they are unable to escape it any other way.

So

essentially overdosing becomes the ultimate detox. Think about it. In the

case

of two people together, each with genetic predispositions towards a certain

condition, with a full blown addiction & love of a certain drug which they

share together, where they have patterned their lives together in pursuit of

sustaining this addiction, the fact that they are eating/drinking/drugging

buddies

makes it even harder for either or both of them to " clean up. "

I know how excruciating painful it is to see a loved one destroying

himself/herself with an addiction. I think all you can do is hope that they

come to

some kind of " bottom " and decide to fight, however they decide to fight.

Maybe you just continue to try to make an example through your own life, and how

you reclaimed it, that there is nothing to fear!

Hope everyone had a wonderful holiday!

Lucille

>

>

> <<My son is probably 90# over. His wife is 5'3 " , maybe 400#? Her parents are

> the same. They have the right ins, in fact double coverage. My step-dtr is

> now 100+# over. SHE had the right insurance and she lived with us for

> awhile, so she KNOWS the drill. It's not that hard.

>

> I cannot understand how they can be around us, after watching us go from

> " large " to " WAY too large " and then to the normal body weight we never had,

> and not want to do it too. It is beyond my comprehension when they saw how

> sick we were and how sick we are not now.

>

>

> Thanks,

>

> >>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/28/2003 11:20:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,

DisDog@... writes:

> Think about it. In the case

> of two people together, each with genetic predispositions towards a certain

> condition, with a full blown addiction & love of a certain drug which they

> share together, where they have patterned their lives together in pursuit of

>

> sustaining this addiction, the fact that they are eating/drinking/drugging

> buddies

> makes it even harder for either or both of them to " clean up. "

>

> I know how excruciating painful it is to see a loved one destroying

> himself/herself with an addiction. I think all you can do is hope that

> they come to

> some kind of " bottom " and decide to fight, however they decide to fight.

> Maybe you just continue to try to make an example through your own life, and

> how

> you reclaimed it, that there is nothing to fear!

>

>

Lucille,

You hit the nail on the head. In my daughter's case, she has married a

fellow " foodie " . His upbringing doesn't help. In their family, home-cooking

consists of buying one of those 's meal in a box things and adding

chicken.

We had asparagus with dinner one night and he had no clue what it was.

Ditto for brussel sprouts and canteloupe melon. His family has a strong

tendency

toward diabetes. This is what is killing his grandmother...she is blind due

to the effects of this disease. His father is dealing with very out of control

diabetes as well. Kim O

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/28/2003 11:35:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,

raggedy@... writes:

> My heart aches. My own health was suffering because of my worry about

> Harry.

> I love my brother. He is going to 60 on December 11. Our father died of

> heart/stroke related problems at 65.

> There is not a darn thing I can do but take care of me right now and pray.

> I call him. I show him I love him and am interested. But I can't make him

> take care of himself.

>

,

My heart aches right along with you. You are right, the best we can do is

take good care of ourselves. Kim O

[Guest guest]

Yes, this is sort of what happened to me. I knew someone who had the old

" stomach stapling " in the early 80's and she didn't eat normally. Once I hit

the higher weight ranges, I never considered surgery because I didn't have the

cash to pay for it. The DAY I discovered insurance might cover it, I was on the

internet reading my insurance policy. Lo and behold, it was right in there as a

covered benefit. I went home to my spouse crying that night because I couldn't

believe that I was even considering surgery but knew in my heart it was the only

way out at that point in my life. I was at the doc a couple of days later for a

referral (as well as a diagnosis of Diabetes Type 2, high cholesterol, high

blood pressure; none of which I knew about when I made the decision for surgery)

and on the table 9 months later (after going through one surgeon, finding

another, changing insurance and going to a seminar). Desperate times =

desperate measures at least in my case.

S.

Lap RNY 7/5/02

-132 lbs.

Vitalady wrote:

I STILL wanted it. Then I met someone who had it in 1993 and before she even

finished the sentence that her ins had paid (I always assumed it was for the

wealthy), I was running out the door with the ph# in my hand. I was dying,

could not breathe, diabetes lurking around the corner......... I'd been

fighting and losing the battles all my life. EVen when I GOT thin, I wasn't

thin. Just starving.

Took me 11 months to get on that table, but maybe all the desperation is

what has made me so RABID all these years?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/28/2003 1:05:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,

frwhlngrl@... writes:

> I used to get so frustrated with myself, that I cannot change it

> for her. I don't push because I don't want to torture herself like I did. I

> starved myself through my entire teenage years. I became bulimic and was so

> for years.

>

>

Oh...you sound just like me. I did the same thing to myself and really

wanted to be sure that my daughters did not suffer the same fate. I was

convinced

that if I raised them with healthy attitudes toward themselves and

food.....none of my problems would show up in my girls. Looks like it is a

matter of

heredity. Kim O

[Guest guest]

I guess I am getting in on the tail end of this conversation. I am watching

my brother destroy himself. He is pushing 500 lbs I believe. He managed to

walk his daughter up the aisle for her wedding on Oct 18. For the

" reception " line had to remain seated. Is on disability.

Within a few days after the wedding he was in the hospital with a severe

infection and almost lost his foot. It seems he was going around in his

stocking feet and had stepped on a toothpick and didn't know it because of

diabetic neuropathy. AND he knows that he shouldn't be going around without

shoes.

My other brothers and I thought this would scare Harry into doing something

serious but it didn't.

Harry still believes that he just has to watch what he eats, go back to

water walking at the gym. (not an organized program at all. just his own

version) All he does is get bigger and bigger. My other brothers want ME

to talk to him because I had the surgery. But it doesn't work that way.

Harry is more intimidated by me now than ever.

He is on the highest dose of insulin his doctor has ever had a patient on.

ly he is dying. If he were killing himself with drugs, I would try to

find a way to do an " intervention " . His wife and daughters are also obese.

Very obese. A little over a year ago he talked to me about the surgery but

talked himself out of it immediately because his wife would never " go for

it " saying it was not healthy. She " does " Weight Watchers. Up and down and

off and knows that Weight Watchers is the healthiest plan. Harry is not

stupid. He worked in a health-related field for years. But this is a man

who when his sugar feels like it is dropping (not testing it ... just feels

it dropping) takes a bag of Hershey's miniatures and eats at least half of

it.

My heart aches. My own health was suffering because of my worry about Harry.

I love my brother. He is going to 60 on December 11. Our father died of

heart/stroke related problems at 65.

There is not a darn thing I can do but take care of me right now and pray.

I call him. I show him I love him and am interested. But I can't make him

take care of himself.

I am not saying surgery is the only solution. I would ship him off to some

rehab center like they do drug addicts if he didn't want surgery (and I know

they have them for compulsive overeaters) But you cannot force someone to

recover.

in NJ

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.543 / Virus Database: 337 - Release Date: 11/21/2003

[Guest guest]

" Harry is more intimidated by me now than ever. "

My 400lb brother would not even come out and see me when I was up there

visiting because he is intimidated by my weight loss. But no way to get the

chip off their shoulder...only they can .

Sherra

Re: Re: Re: need to vent this sad, helpless feeling

> I guess I am getting in on the tail end of this conversation. I am

watching

> my brother destroy himself. He is pushing 500 lbs I believe. He managed to

> walk his daughter up the aisle for her wedding on Oct 18. For the

> " reception " line had to remain seated. Is on disability.

> Within a few days after the wedding he was in the hospital with a severe

> infection and almost lost his foot. It seems he was going around in his

> stocking feet and had stepped on a toothpick and didn't know it because of

> diabetic neuropathy. AND he knows that he shouldn't be going around

without

> shoes.

> My other brothers and I thought this would scare Harry into doing

something

> serious but it didn't.

>

> Harry still believes that he just has to watch what he eats, go back to

> water walking at the gym. (not an organized program at all. just his own

> version) All he does is get bigger and bigger. My other brothers want ME

> to talk to him because I had the surgery. But it doesn't work that way.

> Harry is more intimidated by me now than ever.

>

> He is on the highest dose of insulin his doctor has ever had a patient on.

> ly he is dying. If he were killing himself with drugs, I would try

to

> find a way to do an " intervention " . His wife and daughters are also obese.

> Very obese. A little over a year ago he talked to me about the surgery

but

> talked himself out of it immediately because his wife would never " go for

> it " saying it was not healthy. She " does " Weight Watchers. Up and down

and

> off and knows that Weight Watchers is the healthiest plan. Harry is not

> stupid. He worked in a health-related field for years. But this is a man

> who when his sugar feels like it is dropping (not testing it ... just

feels

> it dropping) takes a bag of Hershey's miniatures and eats at least half

of

> it.

>

> My heart aches. My own health was suffering because of my worry about

Harry.

> I love my brother. He is going to 60 on December 11. Our father died of

> heart/stroke related problems at 65.

> There is not a darn thing I can do but take care of me right now and pray.

> I call him. I show him I love him and am interested. But I can't make him

> take care of himself.

> I am not saying surgery is the only solution. I would ship him off to some

> rehab center like they do drug addicts if he didn't want surgery (and I

know

> they have them for compulsive overeaters) But you cannot force someone to

> recover.

>

> in NJ

>

>

> ---

> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> Version: 6.0.543 / Virus Database: 337 - Release Date: 11/21/2003

>

>

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sherra you are sooooooooo right. Initially Harry was happy for my weight

loss. But in the last 6 months he is distancing himself more and more from

me and I believe it is because of the weight loss. I miss our close

conversations.

Re: Re: Re: need to vent this sad, helpless

feeling

>

>

> > I guess I am getting in on the tail end of this conversation. I am

> watching

> > my brother destroy himself. He is pushing 500 lbs I believe. He managed

to

> > walk his daughter up the aisle for her wedding on Oct 18. For the

> > " reception " line had to remain seated. Is on disability.

> > Within a few days after the wedding he was in the hospital with a severe

> > infection and almost lost his foot. It seems he was going around in his

> > stocking feet and had stepped on a toothpick and didn't know it because

of

> > diabetic neuropathy. AND he knows that he shouldn't be going around

> without

> > shoes.

> > My other brothers and I thought this would scare Harry into doing

> something

> > serious but it didn't.

> >

> > Harry still believes that he just has to watch what he eats, go back to

> > water walking at the gym. (not an organized program at all. just his

own

> > version) All he does is get bigger and bigger. My other brothers want

ME

> > to talk to him because I had the surgery. But it doesn't work that way.

> > Harry is more intimidated by me now than ever.

> >

> > He is on the highest dose of insulin his doctor has ever had a patient

on.

> > ly he is dying. If he were killing himself with drugs, I would try

> to

> > find a way to do an " intervention " . His wife and daughters are also

obese.

> > Very obese. A little over a year ago he talked to me about the surgery

> but

> > talked himself out of it immediately because his wife would never " go

for

> > it " saying it was not healthy. She " does " Weight Watchers. Up and down

> and

> > off and knows that Weight Watchers is the healthiest plan. Harry is not

> > stupid. He worked in a health-related field for years. But this is a

man

> > who when his sugar feels like it is dropping (not testing it ... just

> feels

> > it dropping) takes a bag of Hershey's miniatures and eats at least half

> of

> > it.

> >

> > My heart aches. My own health was suffering because of my worry about

> Harry.

> > I love my brother. He is going to 60 on December 11. Our father died of

> > heart/stroke related problems at 65.

> > There is not a darn thing I can do but take care of me right now and

pray.

> > I call him. I show him I love him and am interested. But I can't make

him

> > take care of himself.

> > I am not saying surgery is the only solution. I would ship him off to

some

> > rehab center like they do drug addicts if he didn't want surgery (and I

> know

> > they have them for compulsive overeaters) But you cannot force someone

to

> > recover.

> >

> > in NJ

> >

> >

> > ---

> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> > Version: 6.0.543 / Virus Database: 337 - Release Date: 11/21/2003

> >

> >

> >

> > Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

> >

> > Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/28/2003 5:31:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,

kricketgirl68@... writes:

> (But I must admit, it is very hard for me to get him to

> eat better, because I don't want him to be singled out as the " kid

> on a diet " at 11 years old...that just brings back too many memories

> of my own Mom... " are you SURE you wanna eat that? You are lookinh

> *heavy*...God do I hate that word to this day!!!)

>

>

My mom used to say DON'T eat that....rather than asking if I was sure I

wanted to eat it. Yikes.....I just don't want to be like that with my girls. I

haven't done that yet. To top it off...my Mom was skinny and tall. Kim O

[Guest guest]

Reading this thread is interesting to me. I can relate to watching another

follow in the very same footsteps I took. My 13 yr old daughter has begun

the weight gaining process I did at the same age. She was only 2 and a half

when I had my surgery. She has always eaten a good balanced diet. My entire

family changed their eating habits when I did. I'm the cook and shopper. My

kids were going to have the knowledge and good habits that I never had. In

my family, it seems puberty is when the weight gain occurs. My 2 boys (18

and 16) went through a heavy stage. They are both very slender now. They

still eat right. My daughter seems to be obsessed with food right now. She

knows the story. I guide her as much as I can. I supply protein on demand.

Carbs are a no-no. She knows the drill. It seems like she is always hungry.

My concern is pushing to hard. I never say anything negative and tell her

how beautiful she is (and she is). I try to let her know that no matter

where she is, she is an important being. She has confidense and carries her

head high. The weight still bothers her though. I see my patterns in her.

The mental process is hereditary. We have weight issues on her father's and

my side. I used to get so frustrated with myself, that I cannot change it

for her. I don't push because I don't want to torture herself like I did. I

starved myself through my entire teenage years. I became bulimic and was so

for years.

If the day comes when she needs and choses the surgery, I will back her up.

If she does not want it, I cannot preach it to her. I hope she will never

get as heavy as I did. My sister and brother are quite heavy as well. I have

never even suggested they get the surgery. I answer any question they have

about it. It's there if they want it. A person has to be at that point in

life. Tired of yo-yoing and concerned for their own health. Yes, I want

these people healthy. If someone said I needed this surgery before I was

ready, I would have not taken it the right way. It is a mental game with

one's self and not a fun one. I would have taken it as a personal attack. I

would have felt worse and probably gained more and in the closet with my fix

of food.

I wish there were not a need for WLS. Why are we so focussed on food anyway?

I have no regrets about having surgery but it is not easy. We need to find

out why we are sick. Yes, we each have this illness. I see obesse people and

have concern and compassion for them. I never think, why don't they just

have WLS. I feel sorrow for them. I don't keep my surgery a secret. I will

help anyone who wants it. WLS though, just is not for everyone.

Dawn

[Guest guest]

What's sad is that my older son ate healthier than I did at one point. He

had lil balanced meals, was way too cool for fast food and went thru a

vegatarian period that was filled with higih protein foods, good green

leafies, etc. He was never a snacker, so had his 3-4 meals/day. He worked

odd hours. Between what I taught him and what he taught himself, he shoulda

been fine.

There is no beating his double bad genes. He was at the very least, prolly

40# over. Now he is more like 80# over, but that is after now several

dieting/exercise programs. Just like me. Just like his dad.

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

Re: need to vent this sad, helpless feeling

> Reading this thread is interesting to me. I can relate to watching another

> follow in the very same footsteps I took. My 13 yr old daughter has begun

> the weight gaining process I did at the same age. She was only 2 and a

half

> when I had my surgery. She has always eaten a good balanced diet. My

entire

> family changed their eating habits when I did. I'm the cook and shopper.

My

> kids were going to have the knowledge and good habits that I never had. In

> my family, it seems puberty is when the weight gain occurs. My 2 boys (18

> and 16) went through a heavy stage. They are both very slender now. They

> still eat right. My daughter seems to be obsessed with food right now. She

> knows the story. I guide her as much as I can. I supply protein on demand.

> Carbs are a no-no. She knows the drill. It seems like she is always

hungry.

>

> My concern is pushing to hard. I never say anything negative and tell her

> how beautiful she is (and she is). I try to let her know that no matter

> where she is, she is an important being. She has confidense and carries

her

> head high. The weight still bothers her though. I see my patterns in her.

> The mental process is hereditary. We have weight issues on her father's

and

> my side. I used to get so frustrated with myself, that I cannot change it

> for her. I don't push because I don't want to torture herself like I did.

I

> starved myself through my entire teenage years. I became bulimic and was

so

> for years.

>

> If the day comes when she needs and choses the surgery, I will back her

up.

> If she does not want it, I cannot preach it to her. I hope she will never

> get as heavy as I did. My sister and brother are quite heavy as well. I

have

> never even suggested they get the surgery. I answer any question they have

> about it. It's there if they want it. A person has to be at that point in

> life. Tired of yo-yoing and concerned for their own health. Yes, I want

> these people healthy. If someone said I needed this surgery before I was

> ready, I would have not taken it the right way. It is a mental game with

> one's self and not a fun one. I would have taken it as a personal attack.

I

> would have felt worse and probably gained more and in the closet with my

fix

> of food.

>

> I wish there were not a need for WLS. Why are we so focussed on food

anyway?

> I have no regrets about having surgery but it is not easy. We need to find

> out why we are sick. Yes, we each have this illness. I see obesse people

and

> have concern and compassion for them. I never think, why don't they just

> have WLS. I feel sorrow for them. I don't keep my surgery a secret. I will

> help anyone who wants it. WLS though, just is not for everyone.

> Dawn

>

>

> Homepage: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG

>

> Unsubscribe: mailto:Graduate-OSSG-unsubscribe

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I often ask people which they fear more, the table, the wakign up or aftre

real life begins again.

I was more scared of staying like I was. As I said, my closest examples were

VBG's who were only thinNER, not thin, and vomited daily, but I was willing

to live that THAT vs how I was. But that was me, and I have no patience

with broken things that can be fixed.

There is no question that we are addicted to the srotoniin high that carbs

deliver. The flip side is the fast drop into the basement of no serotonin.

So, we have a choice, feel very bad or very good. Our disease is such that

we can't get level.

There was a great presenation on this at the conference--putting the horse

before the cart for a change. Here's what happens to the brain when we eat

these things, vs how we always thought it worked. I know Sue r wasn't there

that day, can't remember if Chrissie was. Maybe Sheila can restate it? It

was wel presented, and where I'd been about to maybe take a nice break, I

stayed in rapt attention because someone who was NOT us was finally " getting

it " . What life is like for us.

Now, separately, there ARE eating disorders, and that's now what I'm talkign

about here. This is the chemical reaction that occurs with us as a part of

insulin resistance which is a part of syndrom X. See? That's what I'm

referring to.

Sorta like with a sore foot. Did you start limping first, because you're

nut, then got a sore foot to go with it? Or did your foot have abooboo, so

you learned to limp and now you have both?

Thanks,

Vitalady, Inc. T

www.vitalady.com

If you are interested in PayPal, please click here:

https://www.paypal.com/affil/pal=orders%40vitalady.com

Re: Re: need to vent this sad, helpless feeling

> , I make these comments to you with respect and hope you take them

in

> the spirit that I what I am saying are my personal observations and

opinions

> about this subject, because I feel funny saying things that may seem

directed

> about someone's family.

>

> Just as to the narrow question of why someone MO doesn't turn to wls, I

think

> the most obvious answer is FEAR. Fear not just of the surgery itself,

but

> fear regarding the " new " life after surgery. Personally, I considered

this

> surgery for about 3 years before I had it, and it was out of fear that I

> stalled as long as I did. ULTIMATELY, and ironically, it was fear which

finally

> put me on that operating table. Fear of death, which finally trumped

fear of

> the surgery and fear of the changes the surgery would bring about. So

for me

> I had to reach a point which is popularly referred to as " hitting

bottom. "

> Fear stopped me initially then it became my motivation. A pinch of

> desperation didn't hurt either.

>

> I think we all agree that for many of us there is a genetic component to

> obesity, and to our sustaining obesity through life, and to our battles

with

> obesity. Our behavior adapts itself to our genetics??? okay.

Follows a

> " preset " biological propensity??? okay. But at some point I think we do

develop

> an addiction (genetically triggered?? okay) but then the addiction takes

on a

> life of it's own. Addicts fall in love with their drug of choice. It

gets

> VERY hard to leave that behind. Even when it becomes one of love/hate.

> One time I heard someone say, and I thought this was true, that heroin

addicts

> quite often overdose as a form of suicide in order to finally liberate

> themselves from the drug, because they are unable to escape it any other

way. So

> essentially overdosing becomes the ultimate detox. Think about it. In

the case

> of two people together, each with genetic predispositions towards a

certain

> condition, with a full blown addiction & love of a certain drug which they

> share together, where they have patterned their lives together in pursuit

of

> sustaining this addiction, the fact that they are eating/drinking/drugging

buddies

> makes it even harder for either or both of them to " clean up. "

>

> I know how excruciating painful it is to see a loved one destroying

> himself/herself with an addiction. I think all you can do is hope that

they come to

> some kind of " bottom " and decide to fight, however they decide to fight.

> Maybe you just continue to try to make an example through your own life,

and how

> you reclaimed it, that there is nothing to fear!

>

> Hope everyone had a wonderful holiday!

>

> Lucille

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > <<My son is probably 90# over. His wife is 5'3 " , maybe 400#? Her

parents are

> > the same. They have the right ins, in fact double coverage. My step-dtr

is

> > now 100+# over. SHE had the right insurance and she lived with us for

> > awhile, so she KNOWS the drill. It's not that hard.

> >

> > I cannot understand how they can be around us, after watching us go from

> > " large " to " WAY too large " and then to the normal body weight we never

had,

> > and not want to do it too. It is beyond my comprehension when they saw

how

> > sick we were and how sick we are not now.

> >

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > >>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/28/03 11:03:35 AM Central Standard Time,

kimberlyoconnell@... writes:

> We had asparagus with dinner one night and he had no clue what it was.

> Ditto for brussel sprouts

------

At the age of 43, I ate my FIRST brussel sprout yesterday. It was

delicious. I wonder now what I was afraid of all those years!

The first time I ever SAW a brussel sprout was when I was in college

and my roommate fixed them -- of course, I wouldn't go anywhere near them then.

Beth

Houston, TX

VBG - Dr. Srungaram

05/31/00 - 314 lbs.

11/01/02 - Abdominoplasty

11/29/02 - 160 lbs.

5'10 "