Re: Trouble at Cranial Tech

[Guest guest]

Although most parents are happy with CT, there certainly have been others with a

less favorable experience. I remember only one mom who switched bands. I think

she finished her first band in chicago and was told she didn't need another, but

then got one in another state after she moved (can't remember if it was hanger

or star) and she felt that worked much better. Before doing something like this

I would either try to see another technician at the office you are going to, or

try to have your case reviewed by the main office in phoenix. You should be able

to talk to them about your concerns.

-christine

sydney, 4 yrs, starband grad

>

> It seems like everyone loves their CT experience, but I have to say I'm

disturbed by a few things. My child is 11 months, in the band for 9 weeks for

plagio. She has torticollis which we spotted right away and has been in PT since

7 weeks old. I saw the flat spot develop and asked drs, pt, etc., about

helmeting at 3-4 months and was told not to worry about it. Finally got one at 9

months. Familiar story.

>

> We've seen some rounding out in the flat spot in the back and filling out in

the front on the other side. My concern is really about the skull base asymmetry

because if the place where the sternocleidomastoid muscles attach is not the

same, I can't see how they'll ever be equal in length, strength, and

flexibility. I think the bad advise had us miss the boat on this. We'll never

get the ears in line so the torticollis will always be a problem even if

improved. Maybe that sounds fatalistic, but I've been dragging this baby to a

reputable PT twice a week and having our own torture sessions at home 4-5 times

a day for 9 months. I'm a bit fed up, but won't finish PT for another 6 months

at least.

>

> Anyway, it's not CTs fault the helmets won't correct much skull base asym if

you don't get them early. My problem with CT is that from the start I felt like

the helmet didn't hold on the high point over/behind her left ear. I'd ask and

the tech would talk in circles around the question. In the last 2-3 appts as

growth has slowed I asked if they really needed to shave the foam every visit.

What if she hadn't grown in the 2 weeks? The fit is getting worse, becoming more

tilted and rotating more because she hadn't yet grown into the space put there

in the previous adjustment. Again, the tech talked in circles. She said what if

there's a growth spurt in the coming 2 weeks. There needs to be room for it. I

said there already is room from the previous adjustment. This went around and

around. Ultimately it seems that no matter what you ask/say CT techs will never

admit there is any kind of a problem.

>

> So, maybe that's my question. Has anyone had an experience where CT said there

was a problem with the helmet they made? Do they shave foam every single time

with or without growth between appointments? Every time we go the tech looks at

her head and claims to see rounding since the last appointment. They see many,

many kids, each for a few minutes. I don't believe she remembers my kid's head

well enough to see such minute changes every 2 weeks. I think it's just their

standard scripted line to parents.

>

> To make a long rambling story longer (sorry), the tech now wants us to buy a

second helmet already. This is really my husbands fault, but the tech jumped all

over the chance to upsell us. We were told she'd use the helmet probably for 3-4

months depending on growth. We have not had any growth spurts so I don't see how

she could be growing out of this one early. Nonetheless, when I was saying it

wasn't fitting as well and she hadn't grown into the space already made in it,

the tech said they lose strength on the holding points. My husband asked if that

meant we needed a new helmet. I want to know why it would be losing

effectiveness in less than 2 months when it was sold to us as lasting twice this

long?

>

> I think she will need another helmet which we would have to pay for out of

pocket, but I want to get full use out of both. Would you schedule a DSi in 2

weeks so we'd get a new helmet in about 4 after only 13 weeks or less in the

band? Would you push it off for 4 weeks so we'd get about 15 weeks in it? Or

would it be best to get a new band as early as possible because they are most

effective in the beginning?

>

> Has anyone else felt like CT is just a factory with techs trained to do and

say the same thing for every baby? Has anyone switched from a DOCband to

Starband or some other active helmet?

>

> If anyone is till reading this far I thank you for that and for any response

you may be able to offer.

>

[Guest guest]

When we first went to CT for an evaluation my husband was prepared for them to be like car salesmen as he was already very skepitical of our daughter wearing a band. But to both of our surprises we felt they really were looking out for our daughter's best interest and ours. A lady from the phoenix office was there trainging so we got a very experienced tech. We got the DSi that day! And excited to fix our daughter's brachy we were stoked to get the band. After getting it, I just did not think it was fitting right. She didn't adjust well and it took longer than they said before she could wear it full time and at night. During week 2 she got a blister and had to leave it off a week. I hadn't had a consistent technician either because of some "rearranging" in the office. So I felt like no one could help me. I was starting to really regret CT over Starband. They both are super close to my home. Well I went up there fully prepared to do whatever it took to get someone to listen and fix (meaning replace) my $3600 band (not covered my insurance!). I was very stern (which I am young and look even younger so I thought it would be hard to get them to take me serious). They immediately knew I wasn't backing down, wanted answers- not another adjustment since they weren't working- and when I started saying whatever I was saying (I was worked up) they asked me to hold on and lo' and behold the inventor of the DOC Band and CEO, Jeanne Pomatto-Hertz, happened to be visiting the Dallas office that day and stepped right in! She looked at Lola for a long time and studied her head. Then she addressed the tort that somehow we ALL missed! Then she put the band on her head (which I told her she only had a short time to put it on her head since I knew it wasn't fitting right and was painful to Lola) and she agreed that it did not fit right and she said it was close, but close wasn't good enough. She said she would be glad to make a new band. She said that Lola probably grew a lot during the week waiting for the band and while she had a blister and the band just never fit right from the beginning. Also, the band was for plagio when it would have been better to get a brachy band- so we switched. Not sure why it wasn't brachy band in the first place. They said it was a close call. She took my old band and personally helped in the new band, switching the velcro, bc we agreed it needed to be on the other side because of the bulge above the ears. And we got a perfect band the second time. Unfortunately she outgrew in within weeks, not months, and CT knew we couldn't afford another, so they really praised all of her progress and were very encouraging... never pressured me to move forward with another band, despite us all knowing she would still really benefit.

We got a consistent tech and I felt she really knew Lola's head shape and we both could always tell when she had a huge growth spurt.

Also, we did get her helmet shaved every time and sometimes they would shave more than others. They were very accomadating to shave as much as possible for results sake, but to shave as least as possible to allow the band to work as long as possible. Towards the end I was upset she was growing SOOO fast and was wanting the band to last through Thanksgiving, so we all made that our goal. I was able to come more often to prevent shaving too much or too little. Also, on our graduation day I called and said she still had wiggle room and normally they won't let you change your date bc you assess there's still room, but our tech knew we knew what we were talking about as well and she said to call when it got snug so we could be in the band as long as possible before our exit appt. So we did!

At first I thought we wasted a lot of money using CT, but now I would pay double that for the same experience.

I say all of this to let you know to stand up for your baby! You are that child's voice! I might have lucked out having Jeanne there that day, but I wasn't going home without a new scan and band regardless. And I wasn't about to pay for another, when the first one was off. The thing about these bands is if we wait too long too fix a bad band or experience we loose our oppurtunity for great results!

If your child's band once seemed to fit really good and now doesn't it may just be time for a new band too. I could tell when Lola started needing a new band, but it wasn't in the card for us and we felt like we were at an okay stopping point.

I wish you good luck and keep us posted!

www.leopardorpolkadots.blogspot.com (has lola's before and after pictures- under November: DOC Band graduate!)

>> It seems like everyone loves their CT experience, but I have to say I'm disturbed by a few things. My child is 11 months, in the band for 9 weeks for plagio. She has torticollis which we spotted right away and has been in PT since 7 weeks old. I saw the flat spot develop and asked drs, pt, etc., about helmeting at 3-4 months and was told not to worry about it. Finally got one at 9 months. Familiar story.> > We've seen some rounding out in the flat spot in the back and filling out in the front on the other side. My concern is really about the skull base asymmetry because if the place where the sternocleidomastoid muscles attach is not the same, I can't see how they'll ever be equal in length, strength, and flexibility. I think the bad advise had us miss the boat on this. We'll never get the ears in line so the torticollis will always be a problem even if improved. Maybe that sounds fatalistic, but I've been dragging this baby to a reputable PT twice a week and having our own torture sessions at home 4-5 times a day for 9 months. I'm a bit fed up, but won't finish PT for another 6 months at least.> > Anyway, it's not CTs fault the helmets won't correct much skull base asym if you don't get them early. My problem with CT is that from the start I felt like the helmet didn't hold on the high point over/behind her left ear. I'd ask and the tech would talk in circles around the question. In the last 2-3 appts as growth has slowed I asked if they really needed to shave the foam every visit. What if she hadn't grown in the 2 weeks? The fit is getting worse, becoming more tilted and rotating more because she hadn't yet grown into the space put there in the previous adjustment. Again, the tech talked in circles. She said what if there's a growth spurt in the coming 2 weeks. There needs to be room for it. I said there already is room from the previous adjustment. This went around and around. Ultimately it seems that no matter what you ask/say CT techs will never admit there is any kind of a problem.> > So, maybe that's my question. Has anyone had an experience where CT said there was a problem with the helmet they made? Do they shave foam every single time with or without growth between appointments? Every time we go the tech looks at her head and claims to see rounding since the last appointment. They see many, many kids, each for a few minutes. I don't believe she remembers my kid's head well enough to see such minute changes every 2 weeks. I think it's just their standard scripted line to parents.> > To make a long rambling story longer (sorry), the tech now wants us to buy a second helmet already. This is really my husbands fault, but the tech jumped all over the chance to upsell us. We were told she'd use the helmet probably for 3-4 months depending on growth. We have not had any growth spurts so I don't see how she could be growing out of this one early. Nonetheless, when I was saying it wasn't fitting as well and she hadn't grown into the space already made in it, the tech said they lose strength on the holding points. My husband asked if that meant we needed a new helmet. I want to know why it would be losing effectiveness in less than 2 months when it was sold to us as lasting twice this long? > > I think she will need another helmet which we would have to pay for out of pocket, but I want to get full use out of both. Would you schedule a DSi in 2 weeks so we'd get a new helmet in about 4 after only 13 weeks or less in the band? Would you push it off for 4 weeks so we'd get about 15 weeks in it? Or would it be best to get a new band as early as possible because they are most effective in the beginning? > > Has anyone else felt like CT is just a factory with techs trained to do and say the same thing for every baby? Has anyone switched from a DOCband to Starband or some other active helmet? > > If anyone is till reading this far I thank you for that and for any response you may be able to offer.>

[Guest guest]

So far our experience at the Paramus, NJ CT has been good. That being said, I am

concerned by the number of parents on this and other boards who have been

recommended to get a 2nd band. CT claims only 15 or 20% of babies need a second

band, but it seems really common here. I know this site is not a representative

sample or anything, but it seems like CT underrespresents how many babies will

need a second band. Or maybe only 15-20% agree to a second band but a lot more

are told they need it? Considering how expensive a DOC band is, you'd think they

could make the foam thicker or figure out some way to make one last longer

>

> It seems like everyone loves their CT experience, but I have to say I'm

disturbed by a few things. My child is 11 months, in the band for 9 weeks for

plagio. She has torticollis which we spotted right away and has been in PT since

7 weeks old. I saw the flat spot develop and asked drs, pt, etc., about

helmeting at 3-4 months and was told not to worry about it. Finally got one at 9

months. Familiar story.

>

> We've seen some rounding out in the flat spot in the back and filling out in

the front on the other side. My concern is really about the skull base asymmetry

because if the place where the sternocleidomastoid muscles attach is not the

same, I can't see how they'll ever be equal in length, strength, and

flexibility. I think the bad advise had us miss the boat on this. We'll never

get the ears in line so the torticollis will always be a problem even if

improved. Maybe that sounds fatalistic, but I've been dragging this baby to a

reputable PT twice a week and having our own torture sessions at home 4-5 times

a day for 9 months. I'm a bit fed up, but won't finish PT for another 6 months

at least.

>

> Anyway, it's not CTs fault the helmets won't correct much skull base asym if

you don't get them early. My problem with CT is that from the start I felt like

the helmet didn't hold on the high point over/behind her left ear. I'd ask and

the tech would talk in circles around the question. In the last 2-3 appts as

growth has slowed I asked if they really needed to shave the foam every visit.

What if she hadn't grown in the 2 weeks? The fit is getting worse, becoming more

tilted and rotating more because she hadn't yet grown into the space put there

in the previous adjustment. Again, the tech talked in circles. She said what if

there's a growth spurt in the coming 2 weeks. There needs to be room for it. I

said there already is room from the previous adjustment. This went around and

around. Ultimately it seems that no matter what you ask/say CT techs will never

admit there is any kind of a problem.

>

> So, maybe that's my question. Has anyone had an experience where CT said there

was a problem with the helmet they made? Do they shave foam every single time

with or without growth between appointments? Every time we go the tech looks at

her head and claims to see rounding since the last appointment. They see many,

many kids, each for a few minutes. I don't believe she remembers my kid's head

well enough to see such minute changes every 2 weeks. I think it's just their

standard scripted line to parents.

>

> To make a long rambling story longer (sorry), the tech now wants us to buy a

second helmet already. This is really my husbands fault, but the tech jumped all

over the chance to upsell us. We were told she'd use the helmet probably for 3-4

months depending on growth. We have not had any growth spurts so I don't see how

she could be growing out of this one early. Nonetheless, when I was saying it

wasn't fitting as well and she hadn't grown into the space already made in it,

the tech said they lose strength on the holding points. My husband asked if that

meant we needed a new helmet. I want to know why it would be losing

effectiveness in less than 2 months when it was sold to us as lasting twice this

long?

>

> I think she will need another helmet which we would have to pay for out of

pocket, but I want to get full use out of both. Would you schedule a DSi in 2

weeks so we'd get a new helmet in about 4 after only 13 weeks or less in the

band? Would you push it off for 4 weeks so we'd get about 15 weeks in it? Or

would it be best to get a new band as early as possible because they are most

effective in the beginning?

>

> Has anyone else felt like CT is just a factory with techs trained to do and

say the same thing for every baby? Has anyone switched from a DOCband to

Starband or some other active helmet?

>

> If anyone is till reading this far I thank you for that and for any response

you may be able to offer.

>

[Guest guest]

I have asked the paramus folks about the trend towards 2nd bands. More and more parents/pediatricians are catching plagio/brachio earlier, leading to capturing more than 1 growth spurt in the normal helmet wearing timeframe. My so banded for severe plagio at 5 mos, and outgrew the first band in 6 weeks. His 2nd band is nearly done after 3 months and his measurements are now within the normal range. Moral of thwe story being the lack of real growth, which enables the bands 'redirection' is what makes the bands last longer. Capturing spurts of rapid growth both shortens the bands wear period but also allows for rapid improvement.Best of luck (mom to jj, 9 mos, 2nd doc band for plagio)Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom: "melissaconnor24" <melissaconnor24@...>Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 22:56:06 -0000<Plagiocephaly >Subject: Re: Trouble at Cranial Tech So far our experience at the Paramus, NJ CT has been good. That being said, I am concerned by the number of parents on this and other boards who have been recommended to get a 2nd band. CT claims only 15 or 20% of babies need a second band, but it seems really common here. I know this site is not a representative sample or anything, but it seems like CT underrespresents how many babies will need a second band. Or maybe only 15-20% agree to a second band but a lot more are told they need it? Considering how expensive a DOC band is, you'd think they could make the foam thicker or figure out some way to make one last longer>> It seems like everyone loves their CT experience, but I have to say I'm disturbed by a few things. My child is 11 months, in the band for 9 weeks for plagio. She has torticollis which we spotted right away and has been in PT since 7 weeks old. I saw the flat spot develop and asked drs, pt, etc., about helmeting at 3-4 months and was told not to worry about it. Finally got one at 9 months. Familiar story.> > We've seen some rounding out in the flat spot in the back and filling out in the front on the other side. My concern is really about the skull base asymmetry because if the place where the sternocleidomastoid muscles attach is not the same, I can't see how they'll ever be equal in length, strength, and flexibility. I think the bad advise had us miss the boat on this. We'll never get the ears in line so the torticollis will always be a problem even if improved. Maybe that sounds fatalistic, but I've been dragging this baby to a reputable PT twice a week and having our own torture sessions at home 4-5 times a day for 9 months. I'm a bit fed up, but won't finish PT for another 6 months at least.> > Anyway, it's not CTs fault the helmets won't correct much skull base asym if you don't get them early. My problem with CT is that from the start I felt like the helmet didn't hold on the high point over/behind her left ear. I'd ask and the tech would talk in circles around the question. In the last 2-3 appts as growth has slowed I asked if they really needed to shave the foam every visit. What if she hadn't grown in the 2 weeks? The fit is getting worse, becoming more tilted and rotating more because she hadn't yet grown into the space put there in the previous adjustment. Again, the tech talked in circles. She said what if there's a growth spurt in the coming 2 weeks. There needs to be room for it. I said there already is room from the previous adjustment. This went around and around. Ultimately it seems that no matter what you ask/say CT techs will never admit there is any kind of a problem.> > So, maybe that's my question. Has anyone had an experience where CT said there was a problem with the helmet they made? Do they shave foam every single time with or without growth between appointments? Every time we go the tech looks at her head and claims to see rounding since the last appointment. They see many, many kids, each for a few minutes. I don't believe she remembers my kid's head well enough to see such minute changes every 2 weeks. I think it's just their standard scripted line to parents.> > To make a long rambling story longer (sorry), the tech now wants us to buy a second helmet already. This is really my husbands fault, but the tech jumped all over the chance to upsell us. We were told she'd use the helmet probably for 3-4 months depending on growth. We have not had any growth spurts so I don't see how she could be growing out of this one early. Nonetheless, when I was saying it wasn't fitting as well and she hadn't grown into the space already made in it, the tech said they lose strength on the holding points. My husband asked if that meant we needed a new helmet. I want to know why it would be losing effectiveness in less than 2 months when it was sold to us as lasting twice this long? > > I think she will need another helmet which we would have to pay for out of pocket, but I want to get full use out of both. Would you schedule a DSi in 2 weeks so we'd get a new helmet in about 4 after only 13 weeks or less in the band? Would you push it off for 4 weeks so we'd get about 15 weeks in it? Or would it be best to get a new band as early as possible because they are most effective in the beginning? > > Has anyone else felt like CT is just a factory with techs trained to do and say the same thing for every baby? Has anyone switched from a DOCband to Starband or some other active helmet? > > If anyone is till reading this far I thank you for that and for any response you may be able to offer.>

[Guest guest]

Hi-

Sorry to hear of your frustrations. I haven't had a chance to read all of the

replies to your post, so I apologize if I repeat any suggestions, etc.

First of all, it does sound like your child has a pretty severe case of tort,

just in comparison to my experience. My son's tort was caught early as well, but

treated and resolved within about 4-5 months of starting PT. His plagio however

was never taken seriously and he wasn't banded until he was 17 months old, at

CT. We did see improvement in his skull base assymetry. He wore 2 bands but I

WANTED him to have 2 bands because he was so " old " and I wanted to get as much

correction as possible. They did shave the band every visit (we went every 3

weeks) even if there was already room, however, it always stayed tight in the

prominent areas and never rotated out of place. He wore both bands for the

entire 4 months allowed, there was no talk about quitting early, they assumed

from the beginning he'd get the full 4 months out of each because he was older

and wouldn't be growing as fast.

Which CT are you going to? My first question is, with regards to your tech

saying they see a change, does she bring the original head mold into the room at

each visit? Because they typically do and they can do a side-by-side comparison

to see where change is occurring. I always felt like our therapist was giving an

accurate representation of the change we were seeing.

If her band is rotating, that is a problem. And I'm concerned that the therapist

is saying to get a new band now, only 2 months in it, when she is not outgrowing

the band yet. It shouldn't lose strength that early. Have you asked to speak to

the manager or head therapist at your CT office? If not, I would. There has only

been one really bad fit DOCBand that I've heard of on this board. I'm not sure

if your band had a bad fit from the beginning (like theirs did) but it should

not be rotating. Like I said, our son's head never completely filled in the

areas that were shaved (his growth was in spots here and there, not evenly

distributed like a younger baby's might have been), but his band always fit

firmly on his head and held very closely where it was supposed to.

Anyway, good luck. I would follow your instincts and keep asking questions.

Please keep us posted.

Jake-3 (DOCBand Grad 9/08)

>

> It seems like everyone loves their CT experience, but I have to say I'm

disturbed by a few things. My child is 11 months, in the band for 9 weeks for

plagio. She has torticollis which we spotted right away and has been in PT since

7 weeks old. I saw the flat spot develop and asked drs, pt, etc., about

helmeting at 3-4 months and was told not to worry about it. Finally got one at 9

months. Familiar story.

>

> We've seen some rounding out in the flat spot in the back and filling out in

the front on the other side. My concern is really about the skull base asymmetry

because if the place where the sternocleidomastoid muscles attach is not the

same, I can't see how they'll ever be equal in length, strength, and

flexibility. I think the bad advise had us miss the boat on this. We'll never

get the ears in line so the torticollis will always be a problem even if

improved. Maybe that sounds fatalistic, but I've been dragging this baby to a

reputable PT twice a week and having our own torture sessions at home 4-5 times

a day for 9 months. I'm a bit fed up, but won't finish PT for another 6 months

at least.

>

> Anyway, it's not CTs fault the helmets won't correct much skull base asym if

you don't get them early. My problem with CT is that from the start I felt like

the helmet didn't hold on the high point over/behind her left ear. I'd ask and

the tech would talk in circles around the question. In the last 2-3 appts as

growth has slowed I asked if they really needed to shave the foam every visit.

What if she hadn't grown in the 2 weeks? The fit is getting worse, becoming more

tilted and rotating more because she hadn't yet grown into the space put there

in the previous adjustment. Again, the tech talked in circles. She said what if

there's a growth spurt in the coming 2 weeks. There needs to be room for it. I

said there already is room from the previous adjustment. This went around and

around. Ultimately it seems that no matter what you ask/say CT techs will never

admit there is any kind of a problem.

>

> So, maybe that's my question. Has anyone had an experience where CT said there

was a problem with the helmet they made? Do they shave foam every single time

with or without growth between appointments? Every time we go the tech looks at

her head and claims to see rounding since the last appointment. They see many,

many kids, each for a few minutes. I don't believe she remembers my kid's head

well enough to see such minute changes every 2 weeks. I think it's just their

standard scripted line to parents.

>

> To make a long rambling story longer (sorry), the tech now wants us to buy a

second helmet already. This is really my husbands fault, but the tech jumped all

over the chance to upsell us. We were told she'd use the helmet probably for 3-4

months depending on growth. We have not had any growth spurts so I don't see how

she could be growing out of this one early. Nonetheless, when I was saying it

wasn't fitting as well and she hadn't grown into the space already made in it,

the tech said they lose strength on the holding points. My husband asked if that

meant we needed a new helmet. I want to know why it would be losing

effectiveness in less than 2 months when it was sold to us as lasting twice this

long?

>

> I think she will need another helmet which we would have to pay for out of

pocket, but I want to get full use out of both. Would you schedule a DSi in 2

weeks so we'd get a new helmet in about 4 after only 13 weeks or less in the

band? Would you push it off for 4 weeks so we'd get about 15 weeks in it? Or

would it be best to get a new band as early as possible because they are most

effective in the beginning?

>

> Has anyone else felt like CT is just a factory with techs trained to do and

say the same thing for every baby? Has anyone switched from a DOCband to

Starband or some other active helmet?

>

> If anyone is till reading this far I thank you for that and for any response

you may be able to offer.

>

[Guest guest]

i think this group is more likely to have more severe cases as a lot of us are people noticing it ourselves and pushing for treatment so that may be why the increase.  i also thik as ppl continuing to overuse baby products that # may increase so may be higher now

On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 5:56 PM, melissaconnor24 <melissaconnor24@...> wrote:

 

So far our experience at the Paramus, NJ CT has been good. That being said, I am concerned by the number of parents on this and other boards who have been recommended to get a 2nd band. CT claims only 15 or 20% of babies need a second band, but it seems really common here. I know this site is not a representative sample or anything, but it seems like CT underrespresents how many babies will need a second band. Or maybe only 15-20% agree to a second band but a lot more are told they need it? Considering how expensive a DOC band is, you'd think they could make the foam thicker or figure out some way to make one last longer >

> It seems like everyone loves their CT experience, but I have to say I'm disturbed by a few things. My child is 11 months, in the band for 9 weeks for plagio. She has torticollis which we spotted right away and has been in PT since 7 weeks old. I saw the flat spot develop and asked drs, pt, etc., about helmeting at 3-4 months and was told not to worry about it. Finally got one at 9 months. Familiar story.

> > We've seen some rounding out in the flat spot in the back and filling out in the front on the other side. My concern is really about the skull base asymmetry because if the place where the sternocleidomastoid muscles attach is not the same, I can't see how they'll ever be equal in length, strength, and flexibility. I think the bad advise had us miss the boat on this. We'll never get the ears in line so the torticollis will always be a problem even if improved. Maybe that sounds fatalistic, but I've been dragging this baby to a reputable PT twice a week and having our own torture sessions at home 4-5 times a day for 9 months. I'm a bit fed up, but won't finish PT for another 6 months at least.

> > Anyway, it's not CTs fault the helmets won't correct much skull base asym if you don't get them early. My problem with CT is that from the start I felt like the helmet didn't hold on the high point over/behind her left ear. I'd ask and the tech would talk in circles around the question. In the last 2-3 appts as growth has slowed I asked if they really needed to shave the foam every visit. What if she hadn't grown in the 2 weeks? The fit is getting worse, becoming more tilted and rotating more because she hadn't yet grown into the space put there in the previous adjustment. Again, the tech talked in circles. She said what if there's a growth spurt in the coming 2 weeks. There needs to be room for it. I said there already is room from the previous adjustment. This went around and around. Ultimately it seems that no matter what you ask/say CT techs will never admit there is any kind of a problem.

> > So, maybe that's my question. Has anyone had an experience where CT said there was a problem with the helmet they made? Do they shave foam every single time with or without growth between appointments? Every time we go the tech looks at her head and claims to see rounding since the last appointment. They see many, many kids, each for a few minutes. I don't believe she remembers my kid's head well enough to see such minute changes every 2 weeks. I think it's just their standard scripted line to parents.

> > To make a long rambling story longer (sorry), the tech now wants us to buy a second helmet already. This is really my husbands fault, but the tech jumped all over the chance to upsell us. We were told she'd use the helmet probably for 3-4 months depending on growth. We have not had any growth spurts so I don't see how she could be growing out of this one early. Nonetheless, when I was saying it wasn't fitting as well and she hadn't grown into the space already made in it, the tech said they lose strength on the holding points. My husband asked if that meant we needed a new helmet. I want to know why it would be losing effectiveness in less than 2 months when it was sold to us as lasting twice this long?

> > I think she will need another helmet which we would have to pay for out of pocket, but I want to get full use out of both. Would you schedule a DSi in 2 weeks so we'd get a new helmet in about 4 after only 13 weeks or less in the band? Would you push it off for 4 weeks so we'd get about 15 weeks in it? Or would it be best to get a new band as early as possible because they are most effective in the beginning?

> > Has anyone else felt like CT is just a factory with techs trained to do and say the same thing for every baby? Has anyone switched from a DOCband to Starband or some other active helmet? > > If anyone is till reading this far I thank you for that and for any response you may be able to offer.

>

-- -mommy to Emma, Becca, , and Girl Scout cookies are coming!

[Guest guest]

That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. If change is dependent upon growth, then it shouldn't matter how young the baby is when banded. 1 cm of growth at 5 months should produce the same change as 1 cm of growth at 12 months. It's just that that 1 cm of growth will take longer in the older baby. So, then if the band is outgrown after a particular amount of growth, why would being younger mean that more than one band is needed.

It makes sense to me that being older would mean more than one band since the band expires after 16 weeks and the amount of growth in that 16 weeks may not be enough to completely use up all of the foam in the band.

Anyway, I wonder what the new statistic is. I think I've seen more people post about more than one band than post about only one band.

Re: Trouble at Cranial Tech

So far our experience at the Paramus, NJ CT has been good. That being said, I am concerned by the number of parents on this and other boards who have been recommended to get a 2nd band. CT claims only 15 or 20% of babies need a second band, but it seems really common here. I know this site is not a representative sample or anything, but it seems like CT underrespresents how many babies will need a second band. Or maybe only 15-20% agree to a second band but a lot more are told they need it? Considering how expensive a DOC band is, you'd think they could make the foam thicker or figure out some way to make one last longer>> It seems like everyone loves their CT experience, but I have to say I'm disturbed by a few things. My child is 11 months, in the band for 9 weeks for plagio. She has torticollis which we spotted right away and has been in PT since 7 weeks old. I saw the flat spot develop and asked drs, pt, etc., about helmeting at 3-4 months and was told not to worry about it. Finally got one at 9 months. Familiar story.> > We've seen some rounding out in the flat spot in the back and filling out in the front on the other side. My concern is really about the skull base asymmetry because if the place where the sternocleidomastoid muscles attach is not the same, I can't see how they'll ever be equal in length, strength, and flexibility. I think the bad advise had us miss the boat on this. We'll never get the ears in line so the torticollis will always be a problem even if improved. Maybe that sounds fatalistic, but I've been dragging this baby to a reputable PT twice a week and having our own torture sessions at home 4-5 times a day for 9 months. I'm a bit fed up, but won't finish PT for another 6 months at least.> > Anyway, it's not CTs fault the helmets won't correct much skull base asym if you don't get them early. My problem with CT is that from the start I felt like the helmet didn't hold on the high point over/behind her left ear. I'd ask and the tech would talk in circles around the question. In the last 2-3 appts as growth has slowed I asked if they really needed to shave the foam every visit. What if she hadn't grown in the 2 weeks? The fit is getting worse, becoming more tilted and rotating more because she hadn't yet grown into the space put there in the previous adjustment. Again, the tech talked in circles. She said what if there's a growth spurt in the coming 2 weeks. There needs to be room for it. I said there already is room from the previous adjustment. This went around and around. Ultimately it seems that no matter what you ask/say CT techs will never admit there is any kind of a problem.> > So, maybe that's my question. Has anyone had an experience where CT said there was a problem with the helmet they made? Do they shave foam every single time with or without growth between appointments? Every time we go the tech looks at her head and claims to see rounding since the last appointment. They see many, many kids, each for a few minutes. I don't believe she remembers my kid's head well enough to see such minute changes every 2 weeks. I think it's just their standard scripted line to parents.> > To make a long rambling story longer (sorry), the tech now wants us to buy a second helmet already. This is really my husbands fault, but the tech jumped all over the chance to upsell us. We were told she'd use the helmet probably for 3-4 months depending on growth. We have not had any growth spurts so I don't see how she could be growing out of this one early. Nonetheless, when I was saying it wasn't fitting as well and she hadn't grown into the space already made in it, the tech said they lose strength on the holding points. My husband asked if that meant we needed a new helmet. I want to know why it would be losing effectiveness in less than 2 months when it was sold to us as lasting twice this long? > > I think she will need another helmet which we would have to pay for out of pocket, but I want to get full use out of both. Would you schedule a DSi in 2 weeks so we'd get a new helmet in about 4 after only 13 weeks or less in the band? Would you push it off for 4 weeks so we'd get about 15 weeks in it? Or would it be best to get a new band as early as possible because they are most effective in the beginning? > > Has anyone else felt like CT is just a factory with techs trained to do and say the same thing for every baby? Has anyone switched from a DOCband to Starband or some other active helmet? > > If anyone is till reading this far I thank you for that and for any response you may be able to offer.>

[Guest guest]

Well, younger heads are also softer and still working thru many of the issues that caused the brachio/plagio in the first place. As I mentioned, my so had severe muscular tort (in-utero positioning) that quickly caused severe plagio and facial distortion. We banded at 5 mos, and at 6.5 mos, he outgrew band 1. His plagio had moved into the moderate range but his tort was stil bad (common when growth spurts are quick and constant) and he still slept on his back/spent time in car seats/strollers semi-reclined. I was as worried about regression as I was about further progress given his young age and inability to sit up by himself during his waking hours to take the constant contact off his head. Now at 9.5 mos as he outgrows band 2, he is in mild range but sits well and sleeps on both front back. I am less worried about regression due to positioning and see his tort resolving mor and more each week as he hits new milestones. I have to say that even if, at 6.5 mos after band 1 he was in mild range then I would still have opted for band 2 since his tort was so bad and the worry about regression.each baby's circumstances are unique, I hope some of my experience sheds some light on the possible scenarios for you. Best of luck! (mom to jj 9 mos 2nd docband)Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom: <melanie.watson@...>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 13:00:12 +0000 (UTC)<Plagiocephaly >Subject: Re: Re: Trouble at Cranial Tech That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. If change is dependent upon growth, then it shouldn't matter how young the baby is when banded. 1 cm of growth at 5 months should produce the same change as 1 cm of growth at 12 months. It's just that that 1 cm of growth will take longer in the older baby. So, then if the band is outgrown after a particular amount of growth, why would being younger mean that more than one band is needed. It makes sense to me that being older would mean more than one band since the band expires after 16 weeks and the amount of growth in that 16 weeks may not be enough to completely use up all of the foam in the band. Anyway, I wonder what the new statistic is. I think I've seen more people post about more than one band than post about only one band. Re: Trouble at Cranial Tech So far our experience at the Paramus, NJ CT has been good. That being said, I am concerned by the number of parents on this and other boards who have been recommended to get a 2nd band. CT claims only 15 or 20% of babies need a second band, but it seems really common here. I know this site is not a representative sample or anything, but it seems like CT underrespresents how many babies will need a second band. Or maybe only 15-20% agree to a second band but a lot more are told they need it? Considering how expensive a DOC band is, you'd think they could make the foam thicker or figure out some way to make one last longer>> It seems like everyone loves their CT experience, but I have to say I'm disturbed by a few things. My child is 11 months, in the band for 9 weeks for plagio. She has torticollis which we spotted right away and has been in PT since 7 weeks old. I saw the flat spot develop and asked drs, pt, etc., about helmeting at 3-4 months and was told not to worry about it. Finally got one at 9 months. Familiar story.> > We've seen some rounding out in the flat spot in the back and filling out in the front on the other side. My concern is really about the skull base asymmetry because if the place where the sternocleidomastoid muscles attach is not the same, I can't see how they'll ever be equal in length, strength, and flexibility. I think the bad advise had us miss the boat on this. We'll never get the ears in line so the torticollis will always be a problem even if improved. Maybe that sounds fatalistic, but I've been dragging this baby to a reputable PT twice a week and having our own torture sessions at home 4-5 times a day for 9 months. I'm a bit fed up, but won't finish PT for another 6 months at least.> > Anyway, it's not CTs fault the helmets won't correct much skull base asym if you don't get them early. My problem with CT is that from the start I felt like the helmet didn't hold on the high point over/behind her left ear. I'd ask and the tech would talk in circles around the question. In the last 2-3 appts as growth has slowed I asked if they really needed to shave the foam every visit. What if she hadn't grown in the 2 weeks? The fit is getting worse, becoming more tilted and rotating more because she hadn't yet grown into the space put there in the previous adjustment. Again, the tech talked in circles. She said what if there's a growth spurt in the coming 2 weeks. There needs to be room for it. I said there already is room from the previous adjustment. This went around and around. Ultimately it seems that no matter what you ask/say CT techs will never admit there is any kind of a problem.> > So, maybe that's my question. Has anyone had an experience where CT said there was a problem with the helmet they made? Do they shave foam every single time with or without growth between appointments? Every time we go the tech looks at her head and claims to see rounding since the last appointment. They see many, many kids, each for a few minutes. I don't believe she remembers my kid's head well enough to see such minute changes every 2 weeks. I think it's just their standard scripted line to parents.> > To make a long rambling story longer (sorry), the tech now wants us to buy a second helmet already. This is really my husbands fault, but the tech jumped all over the chance to upsell us. We were told she'd use the helmet probably for 3-4 months depending on growth. We have not had any growth spurts so I don't see how she could be growing out of this one early. Nonetheless, when I was saying it wasn't fitting as well and she hadn't grown into the space already made in it, the tech said they lose strength on the holding points. My husband asked if that meant we needed a new helmet. I want to know why it would be losing effectiveness in less than 2 months when it was sold to us as lasting twice this long? > > I think she will need another helmet which we would have to pay for out of pocket, but I want to get full use out of both. Would you schedule a DSi in 2 weeks so we'd get a new helmet in about 4 after only 13 weeks or less in the band? Would you push it off for 4 weeks so we'd get about 15 weeks in it? Or would it be best to get a new band as early as possible because they are most effective in the beginning? > > Has anyone else felt like CT is just a factory with techs trained to do and say the same thing for every baby? Has anyone switched from a DOCband to Starband or some other active helmet? > > If anyone is till reading this far I thank you for that and for any response you may be able to offer.>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I've read that the lower part is often the hardest to correct. This is

confusing to me since for it has been the opposite. It looks like

the lower half of his head corrected almost completely, but the upper

half not as much. The measurements and visual appearance at level 3

are fairly good, but up higher the plagio still bothers me. There is

another older baby I've read about that seems to be having a similar

problem fixing up high.

Hopefully, if the top part is not as hard to correct, there is still

hope for improvement there on . Do you think this is still

possible?

Thanks,

Kathy, mom to turning 21 months, treating plagio since 12 months

nwilkens2275 wrote:

Something to keep in mind....they measure head growth at the

top/temple area of the head (only one area), but the lower part of the

head is often the hardest to correct (as far as making a difference in

facial and ear asymmetry) and so there might be substantial growth at

the top of the head that might not be reflected proportionately at the

bottom (either in measurement or appearance of asymmetry). For older

babies in particular, there may be growth in head circumference, but

that does not mean that the flat spot has rounded out (because the

skull is thicker/harder and harder to mold). It could just mean they're

head has grown but is still the same uneven shape and therefore have

little to no correction. (Or like in my son's case, he did grow and

there was correction, it was just not evenly proportioned because he

was older. The edges of the flat spot rounded out or softened so that

the flat spot is a little smaller, but it's still there).

The strength of the band does breakdown after about 16 weeks. It

doesn't hurt to keep the band on longer than that (unless it's too

small), but it won't necessarily help either. CT's perspective is that

it isn't doing anything positive at that point but keeping the head

warm, and so it's pointless to keep wearing it. Also, in most cases,

there is no more foam to shave out by the end of 16 weeks, so again,

it's not really doing anything and in that instance, could restrict

growth assuming the baby is still growing rapidly (a too-small band can

cause the head to grow upward out of the hole on top of the band, so

it's definitely better to get a new one at that point if maximum

correction has not been achieved).

Hope that helps some.

Jake-3 (DOCBand Grad 9/08)

> > >

> > > It seems like everyone loves their CT experience, but I

have to say I'm disturbed by a few things. My child is 11 months, in

the band for 9 weeks for plagio. She has torticollis which we spotted

right away and has been in PT since 7 weeks old. I saw the flat spot

develop and asked drs, pt, etc., about helmeting at 3-4 months and was

told not to worry about it. Finally got one at 9 months. Familiar

story.

> > >

> > > We've seen some rounding out in the flat spot in the

back and filling out in the front on the other side. My concern is

really about the skull base asymmetry because if the place where the

sternocleidomastoid muscles attach is not the same, I can't see how

they'll ever be equal in length, strength, and flexibility. I think the

bad advise had us miss the boat on this. We'll never get the ears in

line so the torticollis will always be a problem even if improved.

Maybe that sounds fatalistic, but I've been dragging this baby to a

reputable PT twice a week and having our own torture sessions at home

4-5 times a day for 9 months. I'm a bit fed up, but won't finish PT for

another 6 months at least.

> > >

> > > Anyway, it's not CTs fault the helmets won't correct

much skull base asym if you don't get them early. My problem with CT is

that from the start I felt like the helmet didn't hold on the high

point over/behind her left ear. I'd ask and the tech would talk in

circles around the question. In the last 2-3 appts as growth has slowed

I asked if they really needed to shave the foam every visit. What if

she hadn't grown in the 2 weeks? The fit is getting worse, becoming

more tilted and rotating more because she hadn't yet grown into the

space put there in the previous adjustment. Again, the tech talked in

circles. She said what if there's a growth spurt in the coming 2 weeks.

There needs to be room for it. I said there already is room from the

previous adjustment. This went around and around. Ultimately it seems

that no matter what you ask/say CT techs will never admit there is any

kind of a problem.

> > >

> > > So, maybe that's my question. Has anyone had an

experience where CT said there was a problem with the helmet they made?

Do they shave foam every single time with or without growth between

appointments? Every time we go the tech looks at her head and claims to

see rounding since the last appointment. They see many, many kids, each

for a few minutes. I don't believe she remembers my kid's head well

enough to see such minute changes every 2 weeks. I think it's just

their standard scripted line to parents.

> > >

> > > To make a long rambling story longer (sorry), the tech

now wants us to buy a second helmet already. This is really my husbands

fault, but the tech jumped all over the chance to upsell us. We were

told she'd use the helmet probably for 3-4 months depending on growth.

We have not had any growth spurts so I don't see how she could be

growing out of this one early. Nonetheless, when I was saying it wasn't

fitting as well and she hadn't grown into the space already made in it,

the tech said they lose strength on the holding points. My husband

asked if that meant we needed a new helmet. I want to know why it would

be losing effectiveness in less than 2 months when it was sold to us as

lasting twice this long?

> > >

> > > I think she will need another helmet which we would have

to pay for out of pocket, but I want to get full use out of both. Would

you schedule a DSi in 2 weeks so we'd get a new helmet in about 4 after

only 13 weeks or less in the band? Would you push it off for 4 weeks so

we'd get about 15 weeks in it? Or would it be best to get a new band as

early as possible because they are most effective in the beginning?

> > >

> > > Has anyone else felt like CT is just a factory with

techs trained to do and say the same thing for every baby? Has anyone

switched from a DOCband to Starband or some other active helmet?

> > >

> > > If anyone is till reading this far I thank you for that

and for any response you may be able to offer.

> > >

> >

>