RE: Regarding chance glutening remedies

April 30, 2008

Very interesting, Bea. It's nice to know there are herbal remedies to help with symptoms. I haven't needed them yet, but I will keep your suggestions in mind if (when...) I do. But what does "shooting D" mean?

Tristan

In a message dated 4/30/08 5:17:30 PM, beagarth@... writes:

Last week I had both the confronting experience of being glutened by chance at a supposedly celiac aware restaurant--Last week I had both the confronting experience of being glutened by chance at a supposedly celiac aware restaurant--the bane of most celiacs--and discovered some remedies that actually worked for me. This after having gotten shooting D just from a food handler who prepared my tea after making s

What happened is that I asked for and got some pineapple and fresh papaya at the establishment I was eating at after I discovered they had put soy sauce in my dish (after I had been assured they wouldn't). I had already eaten about 1/2 my portion--and wasn't paying as much attention as I might since it was supposed to be a "safe" and experienced restaurant concerning the gluten matter. If I had brought along my papain/bromelain caps that would have been the easy equivalent to the pineapple and papaya. As it was the owner ran across the street and bought me some fresh papaya. I also immediately took some pancreatin enzymes I had brought along--a double dose.

Right after dinner my date and I went over to a natural foods store and I bought this new product called Gluten-zyme by Country Life. There was another bottle of a different brand that cost a little more that also looked pretty equivalent. Again I immediately took a double dose. That night I took another dose and two more the next day just to make sure.

Instead of shooting D I had inflammation in my feet and calves which went down after I took my co-enzyme B vitamins. I wasn't home where I usually have my herbs and most of my stuff so I didn't take dandelion (to clean out the liver), cleavers (to clean out the lymphs), marshmallow root (to soothe and heal the lining of the intestines), and nattokinase or serrapeptidase (to counteract scar tissue in the intestines as well as inflammation) etc. until the next day--I probably should have got some at the store but wasn't feeling quite that rich.

The following day my only other symptom was a small pimple on my face, often a sign of glutening in the old pre pure days before I went off all hidden gluten. I did feel a little depressed (another symptom) but then recovered after going for a long walk and working on clay (clay pulls out toxins through the skin of the hands and feet etc.). I bet going for a sauna would have worked too. Taking the dandelion etc. also helped a great deal.

It was a big discovery for me. I keep hearing there is nothing you can do except grin and bear it, but I discovered that at least for me there are remedies. I feel like I no longer have to be terrified of going out to eat, especially with these new gluten-eating enzymes out there. I wonder if this would help others? Methinks it would. Please try it in an emergency and let me (and us all) know if it does.

I still think its not wise to court experiences like this, but hey they happen. Especially for someone like me that is actually trying to have a life outside of my safe cocoon sometimes.

Another note--in case of shooting D right away (before you can take action or know you needed to), pepto bismol tablets or their equivalent work great. They are easy to carry in the purse or pocket or whatever. Another remedy is to make a tea with either blackberry or guava leaves. Meadowsweet I hear also works.

Bea

**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)

May 1, 2008

Shooting D means shooting diarrhea. Not terribly pleasant! Plus its not something to treat lightly I discovered since it makes one more likely to get ill afterwards from some wayward bug going around due to exhaustion. This happened to me this winter. I was ill for two months, esp. after getting trace glutened two more times in the interim. I never got D in the past due to celiac but certainly can now that I am more "pure" (i.e, off all trace glutens normally in my diet and with soaps, lotions, old potholders, alcohol based tinctures etc.) due to my auto immune system now reacting to just trace amounts of gluten. Its worth it to be "pure" like this since now I no longer have achy joints and am more mentally clear plus overall have more energy etc.. However there is this down side of auto-immune over-reactivity caused by living in this gluten filled world.Bea TrVerb@... wrote: Very interesting, Bea. It's nice to know there are herbal remedies to help with symptoms. I haven't needed them yet, but I will keep your suggestions in mind if (when...) I do. But what does "shooting D" mean? Tristan In a message dated 4/30/08 5:17:30 PM, beagarth writes: Last week I had both

the confronting experience of being glutened by chance at a supposedly celiac aware restaurant--Last week I had both the confronting experience of being glutened by chance at a supposedly celiac aware restaurant--the bane of most celiacs--and discovered some remedies that actually worked for me. This after having gotten shooting D just from a food handler who prepared my tea after making s What happened is that I asked for and got some pineapple and fresh papaya at the establishment I was eating at after I discovered they had put soy sauce in my dish (after I had been assured they wouldn't). I had already eaten about 1/2 my portion--and wasn't paying as much attention as I might since it was supposed to be a "safe" and experienced restaurant concerning the gluten matter. If I had brought along my papain/bromelain caps that would have been the easy equivalent to the pineapple and papaya. As it was the owner ran across the street and

bought me some fresh papaya. I also immediately took some pancreatin enzymes I had brought along--a double dose. Right after dinner my date and I went over to a natural foods store and I bought this new product called Gluten-zyme by Country Life. There was another bottle of a different brand that cost a little more that also looked pretty equivalent. Again I immediately took a double dose. That night I took another dose and two more the next day just to make sure. Instead of shooting D I had inflammation in my feet and calves which went down after I took my co-enzyme B vitamins. I wasn't home where I usually have my herbs and most of my stuff so I didn't take dandelion (to clean out the liver), cleavers (to clean out the lymphs), marshmallow root (to soothe and heal the lining of the intestines), and nattokinase or serrapeptidase (to counteract scar tissue in the intestines as well as inflammation) etc. until the next day--I probably should have got some

at the store but wasn't feeling quite that rich. The following day my only other symptom was a small pimple on my face, often a sign of glutening in the old pre pure days before I went off all hidden gluten. I did feel a little depressed (another symptom) but then recovered after going for a long walk and working on clay (clay pulls out toxins through the skin of the hands and feet etc.). I bet going for a sauna would have worked too. Taking the dandelion etc. also helped a great deal. It was a big discovery for me. I keep hearing there is nothing you can do except grin and bear it, but I discovered that at least for me there are remedies. I feel like I no longer have to be terrified of going out to eat, especially with these new gluten-eating enzymes out there. I wonder if this would help others? Methinks it would. Please try it in an emergency and let me (and us all) know if it does. I still think its not wise to court experiences like this,

but hey they happen. Especially for someone like me that is actually trying to have a life outside of my safe cocoon sometimes. Another note--in case of shooting D right away (before you can take action or know you needed to), pepto bismol tablets or their equivalent work great. They are easy to carry in the purse or pocket or whatever. Another remedy is to make a tea with either blackberry or guava leaves. Meadowsweet I hear also works. Bea **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)

May 1, 2008

I'm glad that the Glutenzyme product worked for you, but I would like to see how well the Lactobacillus brevis, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Gluten protease, and Amylase in "Glutenzyme" works in a double-blind, well-controlled research study. On the other hand, in a recent peer-reviewed scientific paper available (abstract, at least) from PubMed.gov, Finnish researchers found that ..."Lactobacillus fermentum

or Bifidobacterium lactis can inhibit the toxic effects of gliadin in

intestinal cell culture conditions" and that it "...would clearly warrant

further studies of its potential as a novel dietary supplement in the

treatment of coeliac disease." Early stage

research, but very interesting.Below I've included the PubMed citation in Medline format for the paper that was published in the April 16, 2008 e-edition of the Journal of Clinical and Experimental Immunology.Cheers, HogleFreelance academic librarianInstructor, online

researchEmail: jjhogle@...Web: www.blueroom.comReality ain't what

you think it isArt Graphics &

Photographs[http://www.blueroom.com/realityaint.htm]============ CITATION ===============Lindfors K et al. Live probiotic Bifidobacteriu...[PMID: 18422736]Related Articles, LinksPMID- 18422736OWN- NLMSTAT- PublisherDA- 20080421PUBM- Print-ElectronicIS- 1365-2249 (Electronic)DP- 2008 Apr 16TI- Live probiotic Bifidobacterium lactis bacteria inhibit the toxic effects induced by wheat gliadin in epithelial cell

culture.AB- Wheat

gliadin induces severe intestinal symptoms and small-bowel mucosal

damage in coeliac disease patients. At present, the only effective

treatment for the disease is a strict life-long gluten-free diet. In

this study we investigated whether probiotics Lactobacillus fermentum

or Bifidobacterium lactis can inhibit the toxic effects of gliadin in

intestinal cell culture conditions. The ability of live probiotics to

inhibit peptic-tryptic digested gliadin-induced damage to human colon

cells Caco-2 was evaluated by measuring epithelial permeability by

transepithelial resistance, actin cytoskeleton arrangements by the

extent of membrane ruffling and expression of tight junctional protein

ZO-1. B. lactis inhibited the gliadin-induced increase dose-dependently

in epithelial permeability, higher concentrations completely abolishing

the gliadin-induced decrease in transepithelial resistance. The same

bacterial strain also inhibited the formation of membrane ruffles in

Caco-2 cells induced by gliadin administration. Furthermore, it also

protected the tight junctions of Caco-2 cells against the effects of

gliadin, as evinced by the pattern of ZO-1 expression. We conclude thus

that live B. lactis bacteria can counteract directly the harmful

effects exerted by coeliac-toxic gliadin and would clearly warrant

further studies of its potential as a novel dietary supplement in the

treatment of coeliac disease.AD- Paediatric

Research Centre, Medical School, University of Tampere, Finland,

Department of Peadiatrics, Tampere University Hospital, Tampere,

Finland.AU- Lindfors KAU- Blomqvist TAU- Juuti-Uusitalo KAU- Stenman SAU- Venalainen

JAU- Maki MAU- Kaukinen KLA- ENGPT- JOURNAL ARTICLEDEP- 20080416TA- Clin Exp ImmunolJT- Clinical and experimental immunologyJID- 0057202EDAT- 2008/04/22 09:00MHDA- 2008/04/22

09:00AID- CEI3635 [pii]AID- 10.1111/j.1365-2249.2008.03635.x [doi]PST- aheadofprintSO- Clin Exp Immunol. 2008 Apr 16;.----- Original Message ----From: Beatrice Garth <beagarth@...> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:16:43 PMSubject: [ ] Regarding chance glutening remedies

Last week I had both the confronting experience of being glutened by chance at a supposedly celiac aware restaurant-- the bane of most celiacs--and discovered some remedies that actually worked for me. This after having gotten shooting D just from a food handler who prepared my tea after making someone else a sandwich in February as well as other equivalent experiences since I have gone off all trace hidden glutens! What happened is that I asked for and got some pineapple and fresh papaya at the establishment I was eating at after I discovered they had put soy sauce in my dish (after I had been assured they wouldn't). I had already eaten about 1/2 my portion--and wasn't paying as much attention as I might since it was supposed to be a "safe" and experienced restaurant concerning the gluten matter. If I had brought along my papain/bromelain caps that would have been the easy equivalent to the pineapple and papaya. As it was

the owner ran across the street and

bought me some fresh papaya. I also immediately took some pancreatin enzymes I had brought along--a double dose.Right after dinner my date and I went over to a natural foods store and I bought this new product called Gluten-zyme by Country Life. There was another bottle of a different brand that cost a little more that also looked pretty equivalent. Again I immediately took a double dose. That night I took another dose and two more the next day just to make sure.Instead of shooting D I had inflammation in my feet and calves which went down after I took my co-enzyme B vitamins. I wasn't home where I usually have my herbs and most of my stuff so I didn't take dandelion (to clean out the liver), cleavers (to clean out the lymphs), marshmallow root (to soothe and heal the lining of the intestines), and nattokinase or serrapeptidase (to counteract scar tissue in the intestines as well as inflammation) etc. until the next day--I probably

should have got some at

the store but wasn't feeling quite that rich. The following day my only other symptom was a small pimple on my face, often a sign of glutening in the old pre pure days before I went off all hidden gluten. I did feel a little depressed (another symptom) but then recovered after going for a long walk and working on clay (clay pulls out toxins through the skin of the hands and feet etc.). I bet going for a sauna would have worked too. Taking the dandelion etc. also helped a great deal.It was a big discovery for me. I keep hearing there is nothing you can do except grin and bear it, but I discovered that at least for me there are remedies. I feel like I no longer have to be terrified of going out to eat, especially with these new gluten-eating enzymes out there. I wonder if this would help others? Methinks it would. Please try it in an emergency and let me (and us all) know if it does.I still think its not wise to court experiences

like this, but hey

they happen. Especially for someone like me that is actually trying to have a life outside of my safe cocoon sometimes.Another note--in case of shooting D right away (before you can take action or know you needed to), pepto bismol tablets or their equivalent work great. They are easy to carry in the purse or pocket or whatever. Another remedy is to make a tea with either blackberry or guava leaves. Meadowsweet I hear also works.Bea

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

May 2, 2008

Hi ,And here I thought it was the "glutenase" powder and the "glucoamylase" that made the difference with the Gluten-zyme etc.---not the probiotics. Due to your sharp eye I now see the 5 ingredient probiotic blend. Its great news however if the probiotics do help to such a great degree. The Gluten-zyme by the way also has varying different kinds of peptidase activity as well as "strong acid protease" and amylase.We do need double blind studies I agree wholeheartedly, both for regular supplements and herbs since they too really do seem to help in my experience and for other people with celiac that I know. However for now without the studies for the most part (except for the study you cite), its nice to know that its possible these new gluten enzyme like products actually help--as well as the probiotics. I also think the enzymes in the pineapple and papaya helped me too--which makes sense since they counteract swelling and scar tissue

formation. Question is of course, next time do I use the whole kitchen sink remedy or not? This is where studies are important, though probably for now for myself I can use trial and error--as a kind of personal science. For now I erred on the side of kitchen sink methodology since I did not want to get sick once again and just threw everything that I had available to me at it.I think it would be great however if various people here on the celiac group did try some of these products and remedies and let us all know if it helped them or not when inadvertently glutened. At least it would be a start -- from "nothing one can do" (sigh!) to definitely "doing something!" Since I was affected quite dramatically about 4 times this winter after I went "pure" with not only my diet but also my sundries etc. I am very happy I did not seriously get sick again.If as you imply just the

probiotics are all that is needed as a remedy, I would be highly surprised. However I am open to that being true nevertheless. It would be great in fact since it would be so very simple...and fit in with some of the Northern European people's diet -- since in ancient times they practically lived on fermented reindeer milk for a good part of the year.Bea"j. hogle" <jjhogle@...> wrote: I'm glad that the Glutenzyme product worked for you, but I would like to see

how well the Lactobacillus brevis, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Gluten protease, and Amylase in "Glutenzyme" works in a double-blind, well-controlled research study. On the other hand, in a recent peer-reviewed scientific paper available (abstract, at least) from PubMed.gov, Finnish researchers found that ..."Lactobacillus fermentum or Bifidobacterium lactis can inhibit the toxic effects of gliadin in intestinal cell culture conditions" and that it "...would clearly warrant further studies of its potential as a novel dietary supplement in the treatment of coeliac disease." Early stage research, but very interesting.Below I've included the PubMed citation in Medline format for the paper that was published in the April 16, 2008 e-edition of the Journal of Clinical and Experimental Immunology.Cheers, HogleFreelance academic librarianInstructor, online researchEmail: jjhogle Web: www.blueroom.comReality ain't what you think it isArt Graphics & Photographs[http://www.blueroom.com/realityaint.htm]============ CITATION ===============Lindfors K et al. Live probiotic Bifidobacteriu...[PMID: 18422736]Related

Articles, LinksPMID- 18422736OWN- NLMSTAT- PublisherDA- 20080421PUBM- Print-ElectronicIS- 1365-2249 (Electronic)DP- 2008 Apr 16TI- Live probiotic Bifidobacterium lactis bacteria inhibit the toxic effects induced by wheat gliadin in epithelial cell culture.AB- Wheat gliadin induces severe intestinal symptoms and small-bowel mucosal damage in coeliac disease patients. At present, the only effective treatment for the disease is a strict life-long gluten-free diet. In this study we investigated whether probiotics Lactobacillus fermentum or Bifidobacterium lactis can inhibit the toxic effects of gliadin in intestinal cell culture conditions. The ability of live probiotics to inhibit peptic-tryptic digested gliadin-induced damage to human colon cells Caco-2 was evaluated by measuring epithelial permeability by transepithelial resistance, actin cytoskeleton arrangements by the extent of membrane ruffling and expression of tight junctional protein ZO-1. B. lactis inhibited the gliadin-induced increase dose-dependently in epithelial permeability, higher

concentrations completely abolishing the gliadin-induced decrease in transepithelial resistance. The same bacterial strain also inhibited the formation of membrane ruffles in Caco-2 cells induced by gliadin administration. Furthermore, it also protected the tight junctions of Caco-2 cells against the effects of gliadin, as evinced by the pattern of ZO-1 expression. We conclude thus that live B. lactis bacteria can counteract directly the harmful effects exerted by coeliac-toxic gliadin and would clearly warrant further studies of its potential as a novel dietary supplement in the treatment of coeliac disease.AD- Paediatric Research Centre, Medical School, University of Tampere, Finland, Department of Peadiatrics, Tampere University Hospital, Tampere, Finland.AU- Lindfors KAU- Blomqvist TAU- Juuti-Uusitalo KAU- Stenman

SAU- Venalainen JAU- Maki MAU- Kaukinen KLA- ENGPT- JOURNAL ARTICLEDEP- 20080416TA- Clin Exp ImmunolJT- Clinical and experimental immunologyJID- 0057202EDAT- 2008/04/22 09:00MHDA- 2008/04/22 09:00AID- CEI3635 [pii]AID- 10.1111/j.1365-2249.2008.03635.x [doi]PST- aheadofprintSO- Clin Exp Immunol. 2008 Apr 16;.----- Original Message ----From: Beatrice Garth <beagarth > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:16:43 PMSubject: [ ] Regarding chance glutening remedies Last week I had both the confronting experience of being glutened by chance at a supposedly celiac aware restaurant-- the bane of most celiacs--and discovered some remedies that actually worked for me. This after having gotten shooting D just from a food handler who prepared my tea after making someone else a sandwich in February as well as other equivalent experiences since I have

gone off all trace hidden glutens! What happened is that I asked for and got some pineapple and fresh papaya at the establishment I was eating at after I discovered they had put soy sauce in my dish (after I had been assured they wouldn't). I had already eaten about 1/2 my portion--and wasn't paying as much attention as I might since it was supposed to be a "safe" and experienced restaurant concerning the gluten matter. If I had brought along my papain/bromelain caps that would have been the easy equivalent to the pineapple and papaya. As it was the owner ran across the street and bought me some fresh papaya. I also immediately took some pancreatin enzymes I had brought along--a double dose.Right after dinner my date and I went over to a natural foods store and I bought this new product called Gluten-zyme by Country Life. There was another bottle of a different brand that cost a little more that also looked pretty equivalent. Again I immediately took a

double dose. That night I took another dose and two more the next day just to make sure.Instead of shooting D I had inflammation in my feet and calves which went down after I took my co-enzyme B vitamins. I wasn't home where I usually have my herbs and most of my stuff so I didn't take dandelion (to clean out the liver), cleavers (to clean out the lymphs), marshmallow root (to soothe and heal the lining of the intestines), and nattokinase or serrapeptidase (to counteract scar tissue in the intestines as well as inflammation) etc. until the next day--I probably should have got some at the store but wasn't feeling quite that rich. The following day my only other symptom was a small pimple on my face, often a sign of glutening in the old pre pure days before I went off all hidden gluten. I did feel a little depressed (another symptom) but then recovered after going for a long walk and working on clay (clay pulls out toxins through the skin of the hands and

feet etc.). I bet going for a sauna would have worked too. Taking the dandelion etc. also helped a great deal.It was a big discovery for me. I keep hearing there is nothing you can do except grin and bear it, but I discovered that at least for me there are remedies. I feel like I no longer have to be terrified of going out to eat, especially with these new gluten-eating enzymes out there. I wonder if this would help others? Methinks it would. Please try it in an emergency and let me (and us all) know if it does.I still think its not wise to court experiences like this, but hey they happen. Especially for someone like me that is actually trying to have a life outside of my safe cocoon sometimes.Another note--in case of shooting D right away (before you can take action or know you needed to), pepto bismol tablets or their equivalent work great. They are easy to carry in the purse or pocket or whatever. Another remedy is to make a tea with either

blackberry or guava leaves. Meadowsweet I hear also works.Bea Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

May 2, 2008

Hi Bea:I don't mean to imply that "...just the

probiotics are all that is needed as a remedy." I am only pointing out research whose results, thus far, are proving "interesting." I will follow it, other quality research, and anecdotal reportage about individual's experiences with a lot of interest because my wife's CS has already resulted in three transfusions in the four months since diagnosis.On the other hand, as you note, it may often be worthwhile to err "...on the side of kitchen sink methodology..." because, as long as the kitchen sinks don't have any inherent problems themselves, we might as well try those potentially salutary tools (medicines, herbs, probiotics, whatever) that are showing at least a reasonable amount of anecdotal success. A good analogy might be the many people who were taking glucosamine and condroitin years before scientific studies concluded the supplements' viability in reducing pain in individuals with very painful osteoarthritis.

The one thing we need to be sure is that we and our loved ones don't fall victims to often-expensive scams by or products from vendors who know how to prey on people with illnesses, needs, and fears. Fortunately, there are numerous high-quality Web sites (such as Consumer Reports Health subscription site, the government's MedLinePlus, the Mayo Clinic, the not-for-profit Celiac organizations, and many, many more that can provide us with objective information on the "cures," "medicines," herbs, etc., that are of questionable value or are complete frauds. HogleFreelance academic librarianInstructor, online researchEmail: jjhogle@...Web: www.blueroom.comReality ain't what you think it isArt Graphics & Photographs[http://www.blueroom.com/realityaint.htm]-----

Original Message ----From: Beatrice Garth <beagarth@...> Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 6:52:00 PMSubject: Re: [ ] Regarding chance glutening remedies

Hi ,And here I thought it was the "glutenase" powder and the "glucoamylase" that made the difference with the Gluten-zyme etc.---not the probiotics. Due to your sharp eye I now see the 5 ingredient probiotic blend. Its great news however if the probiotics do help to such a great degree. The Gluten-zyme by the way also has varying different kinds of peptidase activity as well as "strong acid protease" and amylase.We do need double blind studies I agree wholeheartedly, both for regular supplements and herbs since they too really do seem to help in my experience and for other people with celiac that I know. However for now without the studies for the most part (except for the study you cite), its nice to know that its possible these new gluten enzyme like products actually help--as well as the probiotics. I also think the enzymes in the pineapple and papaya helped me too--which makes sense since they

counteract swelling and scar tissue

formation. Question is of course, next time do I use the whole kitchen sink remedy or not? This is where studies are important, though probably for now for myself I can use trial and error--as a kind of personal science. For now I erred on the side of kitchen sink methodology since I did not want to get sick once again and just threw everything that I had available to me at it.I think it would be great however if various people here on the celiac group did try some of these products and remedies and let us all know if it helped them or not when inadvertently glutened. At least it would be a start -- from "nothing one can do" (sigh!) to definitely "doing something!" Since I was affected quite dramatically about 4 times this winter after I went "pure" with not only my diet but also my sundries etc. I am very happy I did not seriously get sick again.If as you

imply just the

probiotics are all that is needed as a remedy, I would be highly surprised. However I am open to that being true nevertheless. It would be great in fact since it would be so very simple...and fit in with some of the Northern European people's diet -- since in ancient times they practically lived on fermented reindeer milk for a good part of the year.Bea"j. hogle" <jjhogle (DOT) com> wrote: I'm glad that the Glutenzyme product worked for you, but I would like to see

how well the Lactobacillus brevis, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Gluten protease, and Amylase in "Glutenzyme" works in a double-blind, well-controlled research study. On the other hand, in a recent peer-reviewed scientific paper available (abstract, at least) from PubMed.gov, Finnish researchers found that ..."Lactobacillus fermentum or Bifidobacterium lactis can inhibit the toxic effects of gliadin in intestinal cell culture conditions" and that it "...would clearly warrant further studies of its potential as a novel dietary supplement in the treatment of coeliac disease." Early stage research, but very interesting.Below I've included the PubMed citation in Medline format for the paper that was published in the April 16, 2008

e-edition of the Journal of Clinical and Experimental Immunology.Cheers, HogleFreelance academic librarianInstructor, online researchEmail: jjhogle (DOT) comWeb: www.blueroom. comReality ain't what you think it isArt Graphics & Photographs[http://www.blueroom .com/realityaint .htm]============ CITATION ============ ===Lindfors K et al. Live probiotic Bifidobacteriu. ..[PMID: 18422736]Related

Articles, LinksPMID- 18422736OWN- NLMSTAT- PublisherDA- 20080421PUBM- Print-ElectronicIS- 1365-2249 (Electronic)DP- 2008 Apr 16TI- Live probiotic Bifidobacterium lactis bacteria inhibit the toxic effects induced by wheat gliadin in epithelial cell culture.AB- Wheat gliadin induces severe intestinal symptoms and small-bowel mucosal damage in coeliac disease patients. At present, the only effective treatment for the disease is a strict life-long gluten-free diet. In this study we investigated whether probiotics Lactobacillus fermentum or Bifidobacterium lactis can inhibit the toxic effects of gliadin in intestinal cell culture conditions. The ability of live probiotics to inhibit peptic-tryptic digested gliadin-induced damage to human colon cells Caco-2 was evaluated by measuring epithelial permeability by transepithelial resistance, actin cytoskeleton arrangements by the extent of membrane ruffling and expression of tight junctional protein ZO-1. B. lactis inhibited the gliadin-induced increase

dose-dependently in epithelial permeability, higher

concentrations completely abolishing the gliadin-induced decrease in transepithelial resistance. The same bacterial strain also inhibited the formation of membrane ruffles in Caco-2 cells induced by gliadin administration. Furthermore, it also protected the tight junctions of Caco-2 cells against the effects of gliadin, as evinced by the pattern of ZO-1 expression. We conclude thus that live B. lactis bacteria can counteract directly the harmful effects exerted by coeliac-toxic gliadin and would clearly warrant further studies of its potential as a novel dietary supplement in the treatment of coeliac disease.AD- Paediatric Research Centre, Medical School, University of Tampere, Finland, Department of Peadiatrics, Tampere University Hospital, Tampere,

Finland.AU- Lindfors KAU- Blomqvist TAU- Juuti-Uusitalo KAU- Stenman

SAU- Venalainen JAU- Maki MAU- Kaukinen KLA- ENGPT- JOURNAL ARTICLEDEP- 20080416TA- Clin Exp ImmunolJT- Clinical and experimental immunologyJID- 0057202EDAT- 2008/04/22 09:00MHDA- 2008/04/22 09:00AID- CEI3635 [pii]AID- 10.1111/j.1365- 2249.2008. 03635.x [doi]PST- aheadofprintSO- Clin Exp Immunol. 2008 Apr 16;.----- Original Message ----From: Beatrice Garth <beagarth (DOT) com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:16:43 PMSubject: [ ] Regarding chance glutening remedies Last week I had both the confronting experience of being glutened by chance at a supposedly celiac aware restaurant-- the bane of most celiacs--and discovered some remedies that actually worked for me. This after having gotten shooting D just from a food handler who prepared my tea after making

someone else a sandwich in February as well as other equivalent experiences since I have

gone off all trace hidden glutens! What happened is that I asked for and got some pineapple and fresh papaya at the establishment I was eating at after I discovered they had put soy sauce in my dish (after I had been assured they wouldn't). I had already eaten about 1/2 my portion--and wasn't paying as much attention as I might since it was supposed to be a "safe" and experienced restaurant concerning the gluten matter. If I had brought along my papain/bromelain caps that would have been the easy equivalent to the pineapple and papaya. As it was the owner ran across the street and bought me some fresh papaya. I also immediately took some pancreatin enzymes I had brought along--a double dose.Right after dinner my date and I went over to a natural foods store and I bought this new product called Gluten-zyme by Country Life. There was another bottle of a different brand that cost a little more that also looked pretty equivalent. Again I

immediately took a

double dose. That night I took another dose and two more the next day just to make sure.Instead of shooting D I had inflammation in my feet and calves which went down after I took my co-enzyme B vitamins. I wasn't home where I usually have my herbs and most of my stuff so I didn't take dandelion (to clean out the liver), cleavers (to clean out the lymphs), marshmallow root (to soothe and heal the lining of the intestines), and nattokinase or serrapeptidase (to counteract scar tissue in the intestines as well as inflammation) etc. until the next day--I probably should have got some at the store but wasn't feeling quite that rich. The following day my only other symptom was a small pimple on my face, often a sign of glutening in the old pre pure days before I went off all hidden gluten. I did feel a little depressed (another symptom) but then recovered after going for a long walk and working on clay (clay pulls out toxins through the

skin of the hands and

feet etc.). I bet going for a sauna would have worked too. Taking the dandelion etc. also helped a great deal.It was a big discovery for me. I keep hearing there is nothing you can do except grin and bear it, but I discovered that at least for me there are remedies. I feel like I no longer have to be terrified of going out to eat, especially with these new gluten-eating enzymes out there. I wonder if this would help others? Methinks it would. Please try it in an emergency and let me (and us all) know if it does.I still think its not wise to court experiences like this, but hey they happen. Especially for someone like me that is actually trying to have a life outside of my safe cocoon sometimes.Another note--in case of shooting D right away (before you can take action or know you needed to), pepto bismol tablets or their equivalent work great. They are easy to carry in the purse or pocket or whatever. Another remedy is to make a

tea with either

blackberry or guava leaves. Meadowsweet I hear also works.Bea Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

May 2, 2008

Where do you find co-enzyme B? I am still low on b1, after injections and double doses of b1 pills.

Also, the Scandinavian info is very interesting. My background is mostly Russian Jew with one grandparent Polish Jew. Big on herring and smoked fish.

It's good to hear that sauerkraut is helpful - I've been eating a ton of it lately as a craving with pupusas. I do think food cravings often reveal deficiencies that your brain translates into a known food for you...

Thanks for this interesting conversation.

Tristan

In a message dated 5/2/08 11:40:33 AM, beagarth@... writes:

Dear and Connie,

I just am so glad we are having this discussion. As I said for me the current attitude that "nothing can be done" about the reaction to inadvertent exposure to trace glutens etc. after one has gone off gluten needs to change--since it seems there definitely are things one can do. Each person is probably slightly different of course--which is what makes researchers crazy I am certain. I am very glad to hear they are researching potential healing enzymes for this condition at Stanford.

According to my 93 year old mother (a former anthropologist/According to my 93 year old mother (a former anthropologist/archaeologist with my dad), her beginning anthropology professorÂ Ollie Olson at the Univ. of California at Berkeley said that Scandinavian people needed to eat a special diet rich in fermented milk etc. as compared to other Europeans. Their ancestors after all relied on fermented Reindeer milk for a significant part of the year. Plus they needed to take things like cod liver oil or eat lots of oily fish since otherwise they didn't get enough vitamin D. I also have learned that most Scandinavians did not eat a diet high in wheat until recently (like after the 1950's!) in places like Finland Sweden and Norway. Instead it was used just for special occasions. The peoples of the British Isles are also known for their difficult digestive problems of

Unfortunately I am allergic to most fermented things; however most fortunately now I do well eating nonfat organic yogurt on a daily basis. What changed this was taking co-enzyme B complex vitamins since I am low on B-1 (necessary for basic carbohydrate and protein synthesis) and like most people with celiac I am not able to either manufacture enough B's in my intestines or get enough value out of regular B complex. The co-enzyme B vitamins go directly into the blood stream rather than having to be digested in the liver and intestines first. I take the kind without sorbitol since I seem to have a problem with it.

I personally think taking the co-enzyme B vitamins could help other people with celiac too. It has made a huge difference in my health overall. I now can use saunas etc. without fainting and actually sweat for instance plus no longer have a racing heart if I walk up a small hill or get a little concerned about something -- or burning legs and feet at night etc.

My ex-husband was first generation Scandinavian American--and I know his family had a tradition of eating lutefisk--which may have had lots of B vitamins for all I know. I do remember him telling me it was smelly and "awful".

I also have come to rely on taking cod liver oil as has the rest of my (partially Scandinavian and British Isles descent) family.

I think in general it would be interesting for someone to investigate the old dietary practices and remedies of Scandinavians since they seem to be the source (as far as I can figure) for this celiac condition--and the old Vikings then spread their genes around so to speak. Plus a significant number of the Scandinavian and British warriors were taken in by the old Roman Army during Caeser's time--which is why I think so many Italians also have this condition.

Bea

Connie Hampton <connie@hampton-connie@hacon> wrote:

Probiotics donâ€™t last long in the body and need to be eaten daily for the best effects â€“ sauerkraut, kefir, kefired apple juice, traditional lactofermented pickles, etc.Â really help on a daily basis and are quite traditional.

Stanford researchers are working on an enzyme therapeutic to use against cross contamination but they are not there yet.Â

Clays like pascalite (www.pascalite.www â€“ I donâ€™t get anything for mentioning them) also can help by sticking to the sticky gliadin peptides.Â

Red wine has been mentioned as well.

I am so glad that you described all that you did, Bea.Â I will print this out and see if any of these herbs and vitamins help me.Â I usually just take my migraine to bed and lose 6 hours.

Connie

From: @ celiacbayar @yah @ celiOn Behalf Of j. hogle

Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 12:21 AM

@ celiacbayar ce

Subject: Re: [ ] Regarding chance glutening remedies

Hi Bea:

I don't mean to imply that "...just the probiotics are all that is needed as a remedy."Â I am only pointing out research whose results, thus far, are proving "interesting. I don't mean to imply that "...just the probiotics are all that is needed as a remedy."Â I am only pointing out research whose results, thus far, are proving "interesting."Â I will follow it, other quality research,

On the other hand, as you note, it may often be worthwhile to err "...on the side of kitchen sink methodology. On the other hand, as you note, it may often be worthwhile to err "...on the side of kitchen sink methodology..." because, as long as the kitchen sinks don't have any inherent problems themselves, we might as well try those potentially salutary tools (medicines, herbs, probiotics, whatever) that are showing at least a reasonable amount of anecdotal success.Â Â A good analogy might be the many people who were taking glucosamine and condroitin years before scienti

The one thing we need to be sure is that we and our loved ones don't fall victims to often-expensive scams by or products from vendors who know how to prey on people with illnesses, needs, and fears.Â Fortunately, there are numerous high-quality Web sites (such as Consumer Reports Health subscription site,Â the government's MedLinePlus,Â the Mayo Clinic, the not-for-profit Celiac organizations, and many, many more that can provide us with objectiveÂ information on the "cures," "medicines," herbs, etc., that are of questionable value or are complete frauds.Â

Hogle

Freelance academic librarian

Instructor, online research

Email: jjhogle (DOT) jj

Web: www.blueroom.www

Reality ain't what you think it is

Art Graphics & Photographs

[http://www.blueroomhttp://www.bluerhttp]

----- Original Message ----

From: Beatrice Garth <beagarth@...>

@ celiacb To

Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 6:52:00 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Regarding chance glutening remedies

Hi ,

And here I thought it was the "glutenase" powder and the "glucoamylase" that made the difference with the Gluten-zyme etc.---not the probiotics. Due to your sharp eye I now see the 5 ingredient probiotic blend. Its great news however if the probiotics do help to such a great degree.

The Gluten-zyme by the way also has varying different kinds of peptidase activity as well as "strong acid protease" and amylase.

We do need double blind studies I agree wholeheartedly, both for regular supplements and herbs since they too really do seem to help in my experience and for other people with celiac that I know. However for now without the studies for the most part (except for the study you cite), its nice to know that its possible these new gluten enzyme like products actually help--as well as the probiotics.

I also think the enzymes in the pineapple and papaya helped me too--which makes sense since they counteract swelling and scar tissue formation.

Question is of course, next time do I use the whole kitchen sink remedy or not? This is where studies are important, though probably for now for myself I can use trial and error--as a kind of personal science. For now I erred on the side of kitchen sink methodology since I did not want to get sick once again and just threw everything that I had available to me at it.

I think it would be great however if various people here on the celiacÂ group did try some of these products and remedies and let us all know if it helped them or not when inadvertently glutened. At least it would be a start -- from "nothing one can do" (sigh!) to definitely "doing something!"Â

Since I was affected quite dramatically about 4 times this winter after I went "pure" with not only my diet but also my sundries etc. I am very happy I did not seriously get sick again.

If as you imply just the probiotics are all that is needed as a remedy, I would be highly surprised. However I am open to that being true nevertheless. It would be great in fact since it would be so very simple...and fit in with some of the Northern European people's diet -- since in ancient times they practically lived on fermented reindeer milk for a good part of the year.

Bea

"j. hogle" <jjhogle (DOT) com> wrote:

I'm glad that the Glutenzyme product worked for you, but I would like to see how well the Lactobacillus brevis, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Gluten protease, and Amylase in "Glutenzyme" works in a double-blind, well-controlled research study.Â

On the other hand, in a recent peer-reviewed scientific paper available (abstract, at least) from PubMed.gov, Finnish researchers found that ..."Lactobacillus fermentum or Bifidobacterium lactis can inhibit the toxic effects of gliadin in intestinal cell culture conditions"Â and that it "...would clearly warrant further studies of its potential as a novel dietary supplement in the treatment of coeliac disease."Â Â Early stage research, but very interesting.

Below I've included the PubMed citation in Medline format for the paper that was published in the April 16, 2008 e-edition of the Journal of Clinical and Experimental Immunology.

Cheers,

Hogle

Freelance academic librarian

Instructor, online research

Email: jjhogle (DOT) com

Web: www.blueroom. com

Reality ain't what you think it is

Art Graphics & Photographs

[http://www.blueroom .com/realityaint .htm]

============ CITATION ============ ===

Lindfors K et al. Live probiotic Bifidobacteriu. ..[PMID: 18422736]

Related Articles, Links

PMID

-

18422736

OWN

-

NLM

STAT

-

Publisher

DA

-

20080421

PUBM

-

Print-Electronic

IS

-

1365-2249 (Electronic)

DP

-

2008 Apr 16

TI

-

Live probiotic Bifidobacterium

lactis bacteria inhibit the toxic effects induced by wheat gliadin in

epithelial cell culture.

AB

-

Wheat gliadin induces severe

intestinal symptoms and small-bowel mucosal damage in coeliac disease

patients. At present, the only effective treatment for the disease is a

strict life-long gluten-free diet. In this study we investigated whether

probiotics Lactobacillus fermentum or Bifidobacterium lactis can inhibit the

toxic effects of gliadin in intestinal cell culture conditions. The ability

of live probiotics to inhibit peptic-tryptic digested gliadin-induced damage

to human colon cells Caco-2 was evaluated by measuring epithelial

permeability by transepithelial resistance, actin cytoskeleton arrangements

by the extent of membrane ruffling and expression of tight junctional protein

ZO-1. B. lactis inhibited the gliadin-induced increase dose-dependently in

epithelial permeability, higher concentrations completely abolishing the

gliadin-induced decrease in transepithelial resistance. The same bacterial

strain also inhibited the formation of membrane ruffles in Caco-2 cells

induced by gliadin administration. Furthermore, it also protected the tight

junctions of Caco-2 cells against the effects of gliadin, as evinced by the

pattern of ZO-1 expression. We conclude thus that live B. lactis bacteria can

counteract directly the harmful effects exerted by coeliac-toxic gliadin and

would clearly warrant further studies of its potential as a novel dietary

supplement in the treatment of coeliac disease.

AD

-

Paediatric Research Centre, Medical

School, University of Tampere, Finland, Department of Peadiatrics, Tampere

University Hospital, Tampere, Finland.

AU

-

Lindfors K

AU

-

Blomqvist T

AU

-

Juuti-Uusitalo K

AU

-

Stenman S

AU

-

Venalainen J

AU

-

Maki M

AU

-

Kaukinen K

LA

-

ENG

PT

-

JOURNAL ARTICLE

DEP

-

20080416

TA

-

Clin Exp Immunol

JT

-

Clinical and experimental

immunology

JID

-

0057202

EDAT

-

2008/04/22 09:00

MHDA

-

2008/04/22 09:00

AID

-

CEI3635 [pii]

AID

-

10.1111/j.1365- 2249.2008. 03635.x [doi]

PST

-

aheadofprint

SO

-

Clin Exp Immunol. 2008 Apr 16;.

----- Original Message

----

From: Beatrice Garth <beagarth (DOT) com>

Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:16:43 PM

Subject: [ ] Regarding chance glutening remedies

Last week I had both the

confronting experience of being glutened by chance at a supposedly celiac

aware restaurant-- the bane of most celiacs--and discovered some remedies that

actually worked for me. This after having gotten shooting D just from a food

handler who prepared my tea after making someone else a sandwich in February as

well as other equivalent experiences since I have gone off all trace hidden

glutens!

What happened is that I asked for and got some pineapple and fresh papaya at

the establishment I was eating at after I discovered they had put soy sauce in

my dish (after I had been assured they wouldn't). I had already eaten about 1/2

my portion--and wasn't paying as much attention as I might since it was

supposed to be a " safe " and experienced restaurant concerning the

gluten matter. If I had brought along my papain/bromelain caps that would have

been the easy equivalent to the pineapple and papaya. As it was the owner ran

across the street and bought me some fresh papaya. I also immediately took some

pancreatin enzymes I had brought along--a double dose.

Right after dinner my date and I went over to a natural foods store and I

bought this new product called Gluten-zyme by Country Life. There was another

bottle of a different brand that cost a little more that also looked pretty

equivalent. Again I immediately took a double dose. That night I took another

dose and two more the next day just to make sure.

Instead of shooting D I had inflammation in my feet and calves which went down

after I took my co-enzyme B vitamins. I wasn't home where I usually have my

herbs and most of my stuff so I didn't take dandelion (to clean out the liver),

cleavers (to clean out the lymphs), marshmallow root (to soothe and heal the

lining of the intestines), and nattokinase or serrapeptidase (to counteract

scar tissue in the intestines as well as inflammation) etc. until the next

day--I probably should have got some at the store but wasn't feeling quite that

rich.

The following day my only other symptom was a small pimple on my face, often a

sign of glutening in the old pre pure days before I went off all hidden gluten.

I did feel a little depressed (another symptom) but then recovered after going

for a long walk and working on clay (clay pulls out toxins through the skin of

the hands and feet etc.). I bet going for a sauna would have worked too. Taking

the dandelion etc. also helped a great deal.

It was a big discovery for me. I keep hearing there is nothing you can do

except grin and bear it, but I discovered that at least for me there are

remedies. I feel like I no longer have to be terrified of going out to eat,

especially with these new gluten-eating enzymes out there. I wonder if this

would help others? Methinks it would. Please try it in an emergency and let me

(and us all) know if it does.

I still think its not wise to court experiences like this, but hey they happen.

Especially for someone like me that is actually trying to have a life outside

of my safe cocoon sometimes.

Another note--in case of shooting D right away (before you can take action or

know you needed to), pepto bismol tablets or their equivalent work great. They

are easy to carry in the purse or pocket or whatever. Another remedy is to make

a tea with either blackberry or guava leaves. Meadowsweet I hear also works.

Bea

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try

it now.

May 2, 2008

Thanks for the recipe, Connie. I didn't know it was that quick. I buy the Bubbe sauerkraut, which is just cabbage, salt, and water. I'm pretty sure it's not cooked. But maybe I'll try making my own.

Tristan

In a message dated 5/2/08 1:04:05 PM, connie@... writes:

Tristan,

It needs to be raw sauerkraut for the probiotic effect â€“ if you heat can it, you kill the good bacterial.Â But kraut is so very easy to make!Â Slice or chop some cabbage and salt it with 3 Tbsp for every 5#s of cabbage, put in jar and press down so that the juices cover the top (or add more brine to cover) and keep on the counter for a day or three until the bubbles show up then put in the refrigerator and enjoy.

Connie

**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

May 2, 2008

Connie, do you use kosher salt or table salt?

H.

In a message dated 5/2/08 2:17:38 PM, TrVerb@... writes:

Thanks for the recipe, Connie. I didn't know it was that quick. I buy the Bubbe sauerkraut, which is just cabbage, salt, and water. I'm pretty sure it's not cooked. But maybe I'll try making my own.

Tristan

In a message dated 5/2/08 1:04:05 PM, connie@hampton- In a mes In a messa

Tristan,

It needs to be raw sauerkraut for the probiotic effect â€“ if you heat can it, you kill the good bacterial.Â But kraut is so very easy to make!Â Slice or chop some cabbage and salt it with 3 Tbsp for every 5#s of cabbage, put in jar and press down so that the juices cover the top (or add more brine to cover) and keep on the counter for a day or three until the bubbles show up then put in the refrigerator and enjoy.

Connie

**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

May 2, 2008

Dear and Connie,I just am so glad we are having this discussion. As I said for me the current attitude that "nothing can be done" about the reaction to inadvertent exposure to trace glutens etc. after one has gone off gluten needs to change--since it seems there definitely are things one can do. Each person is probably slightly different of course--which is what makes researchers crazy I am certain. I am very glad to hear they are researching potential healing enzymes for this condition at Stanford.According to my 93 year old mother (a former anthropologist/archaeologist with my dad), her beginning anthropology professor Ollie Olson at the Univ. of California at Berkeley said that Scandinavian people needed to eat a special diet rich in fermented milk etc. as compared to other Europeans. Their ancestors after all relied on fermented Reindeer milk for a significant part of the year. Plus they needed to take things like cod liver oil or eat lots of

oily fish since otherwise they didn't get enough vitamin D. I also have learned that most Scandinavians did not eat a diet high in wheat until recently (like after the 1950's!) in places like Finland Sweden and Norway. Instead it was used just for special occasions. The peoples of the British Isles are also known for their difficult digestive problems often resolved by a diet emphasizing meat, vegetables and potatoes.Unfortunately I am allergic to most fermented things; however most fortunately now I do well eating nonfat organic yogurt on a daily basis. What changed this was taking co-enzyme B complex vitamins since I am low on B-1 (necessary for basic carbohydrate and protein synthesis) and like most people with celiac I am not able to either manufacture enough B's in my intestines or get enough value out of regular B complex. The co-enzyme B vitamins go directly

into the blood stream rather than having to be digested in the liver and intestines first. I take the kind without sorbitol since I seem to have a problem with it. I personally think taking the co-enzyme B vitamins could help other people with celiac too. It has made a huge difference in my health overall. I now can use saunas etc. without fainting and actually sweat for instance plus no longer have a racing heart if I walk up a small hill or get a little concerned about something -- or burning legs and feet at night etc.My ex-husband was first generation Scandinavian American--and I know his family had a tradition of eating lutefisk--which may have had lots of B vitamins for all I know. I do remember him telling me it was smelly and "awful".I also have come to rely on taking cod liver oil as has the rest of my (partially Scandinavian and British Isles descent) family.I think in general it would be interesting for someone to investigate the

old dietary practices and remedies of Scandinavians since they seem to be the source (as far as I can figure) for this celiac condition--and the old Vikings then spread their genes around so to speak. Plus a significant number of the Scandinavian and British warriors were taken in by the old Roman Army during Caeser's time--which is why I think so many Italians also have this condition.BeaConnie Hampton <connie@...> wrote: Probiotics don’t last long in the body and need to be eaten daily for the best effects – sauerkraut, kefir, kefired apple juice, traditional lactofermented pickles, etc. really help on a daily basis and are quite traditional. Stanford researchers are working on an enzyme therapeutic to use against cross contamination but they are not there yet. Clays like pascalite (www.pascalite.com – I don’t get anything for mentioning them) also can help by sticking to the sticky gliadin peptides. Red wine has been mentioned as well. I am so glad that you described

all that you did, Bea. I will print this out and see if any of these herbs and vitamins help me. I usually just take my migraine to bed and lose 6 hours. Connie From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of j. hogle Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 12:21 AM Subject: Re: [ ] Regarding chance glutening remedies Hi Bea: I don't mean to imply that "...just the probiotics are all that is needed as a remedy." I am only pointing out research whose results, thus far, are proving "interesting." I will follow it, other quality research, and anecdotal reportage about individual's experiences with a lot of interest because my wife's CS has already resulted in three transfusions in the four months since diagnosis. On the other hand, as you note, it may often be worthwhile to err "...on the side of kitchen sink methodology..." because, as long as the kitchen sinks don't have any inherent problems themselves, we might as well try those potentially salutary tools (medicines, herbs, probiotics, whatever) that are showing at least a reasonable amount of anecdotal success. A good analogy might be the many people who were taking glucosamine and

condroitin years before scientific studies concluded the supplements' viability in reducing pain in individuals with very painful osteoarthritis. The one thing we need to be sure is that we and our loved ones don't fall victims to often-expensive scams by or products from vendors who know how to prey on people with illnesses, needs, and fears. Fortunately, there are numerous high-quality Web sites (such as Consumer Reports Health subscription site, the government's MedLinePlus, the Mayo Clinic, the not-for-profit Celiac organizations, and many, many more that can provide us with objective information on the "cures," "medicines," herbs, etc., that are of questionable value or are complete frauds. Hogle Freelance academic librarian Instructor, online research

Email: jjhogle Web: www.blueroom.com Reality ain't what you think it is Art Graphics &

Photographs [http://www.blueroom.com/realityaint.htm] ----- Original Message ---- From: Beatrice Garth <beagarth > Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 6:52:00 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Regarding chance glutening remedies Hi , And here I thought it was the "glutenase" powder and the "glucoamylase" that made the difference with the Gluten-zyme etc.---not the probiotics. Due to your sharp eye I now see the 5 ingredient probiotic blend. Its great news however if the probiotics do help to such a great degree. The Gluten-zyme by the way also has varying different kinds of peptidase activity as well as "strong acid protease" and amylase. We do need double blind studies I agree wholeheartedly, both for regular supplements and herbs since they too really do seem to help in my experience and for other people with celiac that I know. However for now without the studies for the most part (except for the study you cite), its nice to know that its possible these new gluten enzyme like products actually help--as well as the probiotics. I also think the enzymes in the

pineapple and papaya helped me too--which makes sense since they counteract swelling and scar tissue formation. Question is of course, next time do I use the whole kitchen sink remedy or not? This is where studies are important, though probably for now for myself I can use trial and error--as a kind of personal science. For now I erred on the side of kitchen sink methodology since I did not want to get sick once again and just threw everything that I had available to me at it. I think it would be great however if various people here on the celiac group did try some of these products and remedies and let us all know if it helped them or not when inadvertently glutened. At least it would be a start -- from "nothing one can do" (sigh!) to definitely "doing something!" Since I was affected quite dramatically about 4 times this winter after I went "pure" with not only my diet but also my sundries etc. I am very happy I did

not seriously get sick again. If as you imply just the probiotics are all that is needed as a remedy, I would be highly surprised. However I am open to that being true nevertheless. It would be great in fact since it would be so very simple...and fit in with some of the Northern European people's diet -- since in ancient times they practically lived on fermented reindeer milk for a good part of the year. Bea "j. hogle" <jjhogle (DOT) com> wrote: I'm glad that the Glutenzyme product worked for you, but I would like to see how well the Lactobacillus brevis, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Gluten protease, and Amylase in "Glutenzyme" works in a

double-blind, well-controlled research study. On the other hand, in a recent peer-reviewed scientific paper available (abstract, at least) from PubMed.gov, Finnish researchers found that ..."Lactobacillus fermentum or Bifidobacterium lactis can inhibit the toxic effects of gliadin in intestinal cell culture conditions" and that it "...would clearly warrant further studies of its potential as a novel dietary supplement in the treatment of coeliac disease." Early stage research, but very interesting. Below I've included the PubMed citation in Medline format for the paper that was published in the April 16, 2008 e-edition of the Journal of Clinical and Experimental Immunology. Cheers, Hogle Freelance academic librarian Instructor, online research Email: jjhogle (DOT) com Web: www.blueroom. com Reality ain't what you think it is Art Graphics & Photographs

[http://www.blueroom .com/realityaint .htm] ============ CITATION ============ === Lindfors K et al. Live probiotic Bifidobacteriu. ..[PMID: 18422736] Related Articles, Links PMID - 18422736 OWN - NLM STAT - Publisher DA - 20080421 PUBM - Print-Electronic IS - 1365-2249 (Electronic) DP - 2008 Apr 16 TI - Live probiotic Bifidobacterium lactis bacteria inhibit the toxic effects induced by wheat gliadin in epithelial cell culture. AB - Wheat gliadin induces severe intestinal symptoms and small-bowel mucosal damage in coeliac disease patients. At present, the only effective treatment for the disease is a strict life-long gluten-free diet. In this study we

investigated whether probiotics Lactobacillus fermentum or Bifidobacterium lactis can inhibit the toxic effects of gliadin in intestinal cell culture conditions. The ability of live probiotics to inhibit peptic-tryptic digested gliadin-induced damage to human colon cells Caco-2 was evaluated by measuring epithelial permeability by transepithelial resistance, actin cytoskeleton arrangements by the extent of membrane ruffling and expression of tight junctional protein ZO-1. B. lactis inhibited the gliadin-induced increase dose-dependently in epithelial permeability, higher concentrations completely abolishing the gliadin-induced decrease in transepithelial resistance. The same bacterial strain also inhibited the formation of membrane ruffles in Caco-2 cells induced by gliadin administration. Furthermore, it also protected the tight junctions of Caco-2 cells against the effects of gliadin, as evinced by the pattern of ZO-1 expression. We conclude

thus that live B. lactis bacteria can counteract directly the harmful effects exerted by coeliac-toxic gliadin and would clearly warrant further studies of its potential as a novel dietary supplement in the treatment of coeliac disease. AD - Paediatric Research Centre, Medical School, University of Tampere, Finland, Department of Peadiatrics, Tampere University Hospital, Tampere, Finland.

AU - Lindfors K AU - Blomqvist T AU - Juuti-Uusitalo K AU - Stenman S AU - Venalainen J AU - Maki M AU - Kaukinen K LA - ENG PT - JOURNAL ARTICLE DEP - 20080416 TA - Clin Exp Immunol JT - Clinical and experimental immunology JID - 0057202 EDAT - 2008/04/22 09:00 MHDA - 2008/04/22 09:00 AID - CEI3635 [pii] AID - 10.1111/j.1365- 2249.2008. 03635.x [doi] PST - aheadofprint SO - Clin Exp Immunol. 2008 Apr 16;. ----- Original Message ---- From: Beatrice Garth <beagarth (DOT) com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:16:43 PM Subject: [ ] Regarding chance glutening remedies Last week I had both the confronting experience of being glutened by chance at a supposedly celiac aware restaurant-- the bane of most celiacs--and discovered some remedies that actually worked for me. This after having gotten shooting D just from a food handler who prepared my tea after making someone else a sandwich in February as well as other equivalent experiences since I have gone off all trace hidden glutens! What happened is that I asked for and got some pineapple and fresh papaya at the establishment I was eating at after I discovered they had put

soy sauce in my dish (after I had been assured they wouldn't). I had already eaten about 1/2 my portion--and wasn't paying as much attention as I might since it was supposed to be a "safe" and experienced restaurant concerning the gluten matter. If I had brought along my papain/bromelain caps that would have been the easy equivalent to the pineapple and papaya. As it was the owner ran across the street and bought me some fresh papaya. I also immediately took some pancreatin enzymes I had brought along--a double dose. Right after dinner my date and I went over to a natural foods store and I bought this new product called Gluten-zyme by Country Life. There was another bottle of a different brand that cost a little more that also looked pretty equivalent. Again I immediately took a double dose. That night I took another dose and two more the next day just to make sure. Instead of shooting D I had inflammation in my feet and calves which went down after I

took my co-enzyme B vitamins. I wasn't home where I usually have my herbs and most of my stuff so I didn't take dandelion (to clean out the liver), cleavers (to clean out the lymphs), marshmallow root (to soothe and heal the lining of the intestines), and nattokinase or serrapeptidase (to counteract scar tissue in the intestines as well as inflammation) etc. until the next day--I probably should have got some at the store but wasn't feeling quite that rich. The following day my only other symptom was a small pimple on my face, often a sign of glutening in the old pre pure days before I went off all hidden gluten. I did feel a little depressed (another symptom) but then recovered after going for a long walk and working on clay (clay pulls out toxins through the skin of the hands and feet etc.). I bet going for a sauna would have worked too. Taking the dandelion etc. also helped a great deal. It was a big discovery for me. I keep hearing there is nothing

you can do except grin and bear it, but I discovered that at least for me there are remedies. I feel like I no longer have to be terrified of going out to eat, especially with these new gluten-eating enzymes out there. I wonder if this would help others? Methinks it would. Please try it in an emergency and let me (and us all) know if it does. I still think its not wise to court experiences like this, but hey they happen. Especially for someone like me that is actually trying to have a life outside of my safe cocoon sometimes. Another note--in case of shooting D right away (before you can take action or know you needed to), pepto bismol tablets or their equivalent work great. They are easy to carry in the purse or pocket or whatever. Another remedy is to make a tea with either blackberry or guava leaves. Meadowsweet I hear also works. Bea Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

May 2, 2008

Hi ,I agree--fear mongering and needless expensive remedies should be avoided. I am really glad you are keeping abreast of the latest research news. It can only help not hinder. However the Gluten-Zyme (given what it did for me) did not seem overly expensive. I was glad to find something that helped. I noticed there was at least one other such enzyme remedy out there. In the past I avoided products like that since I believed I was already taking everything that was in them already. Plus I just didn't believe it would "cure" gluten intolerance as it might be construed by the less than informed. However in the hour of need so to speak I was willing to try it due to my having inadvertently eaten soy sauce in a dish of food at a restaurant--plus I noticed new ingredients (i.e., enzymes) that I hadn't tried before. That there were certain "gluten-digesting" enzymes was news to me.Another note--I have used herbs for years. Basically they saved my life.

I do not buy the seeming AMA wisdom that they are just a bunch of old wives tales or somehow intrinsically dangerous. I think it is unfortunate that the AMA really has had so little interest in herbs for instance except to debunk them. I think with study and application one can figure out what works for a person especially if one is observant. My rule of thumb is that we are all different and need to pay attention to our bodies as to what is or is not going on. However there is also enough similarity that we can learn from each other.As it turns out unbeknown to me until recently (!) I had first been dx'd as a four month old infant as having sprue since I was "failing to thrive" and was seriously ill with pneumonia. Having been exposed to radiation from Hanford's Green Run release of radiation into the atmosphere probably didn't help. My mother was warned by her ex Mayo clinic doctor about my need (and that of my sisters and brother) to stay off gluten--however I

was reintroduced to gluten at age four and nothing was said to me so as not to "alarm" me. No doubt my mother did not want us to feel like we were weird or different like she had given her low carbohydrate diet to avoid sprue and DH as a child.I grew but had health problems plus "visions" etc. ever since until I gradually figured out remedies to help me feel better. At age 23 I started losing my right kidney. Apparently my kidneys were inflamed by constant exposure to gluten--even though I didn't know it at the time. (I loved baking.) Using herbs made it so I didn't have to take antibiotics regularly--and I have come to depend on them to help me and my friends. I was motivated since even a small amount of the antibiotics made me feel dopey and made my ears ring. Plus I was quickly becoming allergic to them.My grandmother suggested food allergies might be part of the problem; gradually I figured out I needed to avoid wheat, rye and oats as well

as a number of other allergens. It took years however to go off all gluten since my doctors (both AMA and naturopathic) really didn't have a clue as to what was going on--even after eventually I told them I thought I had celiac 13 years ago. But back then less was known than now. I am so glad there are forums like this and that research is now actually starting to be done and more attention is being paid to the more developed knowledge of celiac they have in Europe.By the way, good luck and increased health for your wife! I am sure it helps for her to have someone like you on her side.Bea"j. hogle" <jjhogle@...> wrote: Hi Bea:I don't mean to imply that "...just the probiotics are all that is needed as a remedy." I am only pointing out research whose results, thus far, are proving "interesting." I will follow it, other quality research, and anecdotal reportage about individual's experiences with a lot of interest because my wife's CS has already resulted in three transfusions in the four months since diagnosis.On the other hand, as you note, it may often be worthwhile to err "...on the side of kitchen sink methodology..." because, as long as the kitchen sinks don't have any inherent problems themselves, we might as well try those potentially salutary tools (medicines, herbs, probiotics, whatever) that are showing at least a reasonable amount of anecdotal

success. A good analogy might be the many people who were taking glucosamine and condroitin years before scientific studies concluded the supplements' viability in reducing pain in individuals with very painful osteoarthritis. The one thing we need to be sure is that we and our loved ones don't fall victims to often-expensive scams by or products from vendors who know how to prey on people with illnesses, needs, and fears. Fortunately, there are numerous high-quality Web sites (such as Consumer Reports Health subscription site, the government's MedLinePlus, the Mayo Clinic, the not-for-profit Celiac organizations, and many, many more that can provide us with objective information on the "cures," "medicines," herbs, etc., that are of questionable value or are complete frauds.

HogleFreelance academic librarianInstructor, online researchEmail: jjhogle Web: www.blueroom.comReality ain't what you think it isArt Graphics & Photographs[http://www.blueroom.com/realityaint.htm]----- Original Message ----From: Beatrice Garth <beagarth > Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 6:52:00 PMSubject: Re: [ ] Regarding chance glutening remedies Hi ,And here I thought it was the "glutenase" powder and the "glucoamylase" that made the difference with the Gluten-zyme etc.---not the probiotics. Due to your sharp eye I now see the 5 ingredient probiotic blend. Its great news however if the probiotics do help to such a great degree. The Gluten-zyme by the way also has varying different kinds of peptidase activity as well as "strong acid protease" and amylase.We do need double blind studies I agree wholeheartedly, both for regular supplements and herbs since they too really do seem

to help in my experience and for other people with celiac that I know. However for now without the studies for the most part (except for the study you cite), its nice to know that its possible these new gluten enzyme like products actually help--as well as the probiotics. I also think the enzymes in the pineapple and papaya helped me too--which makes sense since they counteract swelling and scar tissue formation. Question is of course, next time do I use the whole kitchen sink remedy or not? This is where studies are important, though probably for now for myself I can use trial and error--as a kind of personal science. For now I erred on the side of kitchen sink methodology since I did not want to get sick once again and just threw everything that I had available to me at it.I think it would be great however if various people here on the celiac group did try some of these products and remedies and let us all know if it helped them or

not when inadvertently glutened. At least it would be a start -- from "nothing one can do" (sigh!) to definitely "doing something!" Since I was affected quite dramatically about 4 times this winter after I went "pure" with not only my diet but also my sundries etc. I am very happy I did not seriously get sick again.If as you imply just the probiotics are all that is needed as a remedy, I would be highly surprised. However I am open to that being true nevertheless. It would be great in fact since it would be so very simple...and fit in with some of the Northern European people's diet -- since in ancient times they practically lived on fermented reindeer milk for a good part of the year.Bea"j. hogle" <jjhogle (DOT) com> wrote: I'm glad that the Glutenzyme product worked for you, but I would like to see how well the Lactobacillus brevis, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Gluten protease, and Amylase in "Glutenzyme" works in a double-blind, well-controlled research study. On the other hand, in a recent peer-reviewed scientific paper available (abstract, at least) from PubMed.gov, Finnish researchers found that ..."Lactobacillus fermentum or Bifidobacterium lactis can inhibit the toxic effects of gliadin in intestinal cell culture conditions" and that it "...would clearly warrant further studies of its potential as a novel dietary supplement in the treatment of coeliac disease." Early stage research, but very

interesting.Below I've included the PubMed citation in Medline format for the paper that was published in the April 16, 2008 e-edition of the Journal of Clinical and Experimental Immunology.Cheers, HogleFreelance academic librarianInstructor, online researchEmail: jjhogle (DOT) comWeb: www.blueroom. comReality ain't what you think it isArt Graphics & Photographs[http://www.blueroom .com/realityaint .htm]============ CITATION ============

===Lindfors K et al. Live probiotic Bifidobacteriu. ..[PMID: 18422736]Related Articles, LinksPMID- 18422736OWN- NLMSTAT- PublisherDA- 20080421PUBM- Print-ElectronicIS- 1365-2249 (Electronic)DP- 2008 Apr 16TI- Live probiotic Bifidobacterium lactis bacteria inhibit the toxic effects induced by wheat gliadin in epithelial cell culture.AB- Wheat gliadin induces severe intestinal symptoms and small-bowel mucosal damage in coeliac disease patients. At present, the only effective treatment for the disease is a strict life-long gluten-free diet. In this study we investigated whether probiotics Lactobacillus fermentum or Bifidobacterium lactis can inhibit the toxic effects of gliadin in intestinal cell culture conditions. The ability of live probiotics to inhibit peptic-tryptic digested gliadin-induced damage to human colon cells Caco-2 was evaluated by measuring epithelial permeability by transepithelial resistance, actin cytoskeleton arrangements by the extent of membrane ruffling and expression of tight junctional protein ZO-1. B. lactis inhibited the gliadin-induced increase dose-dependently in epithelial permeability, higher concentrations completely abolishing the gliadin-induced decrease in transepithelial resistance. The same bacterial strain also

inhibited the formation of membrane ruffles in Caco-2 cells induced by gliadin administration. Furthermore, it also protected the tight junctions of Caco-2 cells against the effects of gliadin, as evinced by the pattern of ZO-1 expression. We conclude thus that live B. lactis bacteria can counteract directly the harmful effects exerted by coeliac-toxic gliadin and would clearly warrant further studies of its potential as a novel dietary supplement in the treatment of coeliac disease.AD- Paediatric Research Centre, Medical School, University of Tampere, Finland, Department of Peadiatrics, Tampere University Hospital, Tampere, Finland.AU- Lindfors KAU- Blomqvist TAU- Juuti-Uusitalo KAU- Stenman SAU- Venalainen JAU- Maki MAU- Kaukinen KLA- ENGPT- JOURNAL ARTICLEDEP- 20080416TA- Clin Exp

ImmunolJT- Clinical and experimental immunologyJID- 0057202EDAT- 2008/04/22 09:00MHDA- 2008/04/22 09:00AID- CEI3635 [pii]AID- 10.1111/j.1365- 2249.2008. 03635.x [doi]PST- aheadofprintSO- Clin Exp Immunol. 2008 Apr 16;.----- Original Message

----From: Beatrice Garth <beagarth (DOT) com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:16:43 PMSubject: [ ] Regarding chance glutening remedies Last week I had both the confronting experience of being glutened by chance at a supposedly celiac aware restaurant-- the bane of most celiacs--and discovered some remedies that actually worked for me. This after having gotten shooting D just from a food handler who prepared my tea after making someone else a sandwich in February as well as other equivalent experiences since I have gone off all trace hidden glutens! What happened is that I asked for and got some pineapple and fresh papaya at the establishment I was eating at after I discovered they had put soy sauce in my dish (after I had been assured they wouldn't). I had already eaten about 1/2 my portion--and wasn't paying as much attention as

I might since it was supposed to be a "safe" and experienced restaurant concerning the gluten matter. If I had brought along my papain/bromelain caps that would have been the easy equivalent to the pineapple and papaya. As it was the owner ran across the street and bought me some fresh papaya. I also immediately took some pancreatin enzymes I had brought along--a double dose.Right after dinner my date and I went over to a natural foods store and I bought this new product called Gluten-zyme by Country Life. There was another bottle of a different brand that cost a little more that also looked pretty equivalent. Again I immediately took a double dose. That night I took another dose and two more the next day just to make sure.Instead of shooting D I had inflammation in my feet and calves which went down after I took my co-enzyme B vitamins. I wasn't home where I usually have my herbs and most of my stuff so I didn't take dandelion (to clean out the liver),

cleavers (to clean out the lymphs), marshmallow root (to soothe and heal the lining of the intestines), and nattokinase or serrapeptidase (to counteract scar tissue in the intestines as well as inflammation) etc. until the next day--I probably should have got some at the store but wasn't feeling quite that rich. The following day my only other symptom was a small pimple on my face, often a sign of glutening in the old pre pure days before I went off all hidden gluten. I did feel a little depressed (another symptom) but then recovered after going for a long walk and working on clay (clay pulls out toxins through the skin of the hands and feet etc.). I bet going for a sauna would have worked too. Taking the dandelion etc. also helped a great deal.It was a big discovery for me. I keep hearing there is nothing you can do except grin and bear it, but I discovered that at least for me there are remedies. I feel like I no longer have to be terrified of going

out to eat, especially with these new gluten-eating enzymes out there. I wonder if this would help others? Methinks it would. Please try it in an emergency and let me (and us all) know if it does.I still think its not wise to court experiences like this, but hey they happen. Especially for someone like me that is actually trying to have a life outside of my safe cocoon sometimes.Another note--in case of shooting D right away (before you can take action or know you needed to), pepto bismol tablets or their equivalent work great. They are easy to carry in the purse or pocket or whatever. Another remedy is to make a tea with either blackberry or guava leaves. Meadowsweet I hear also works.Bea Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

May 2, 2008

Hi Tristan,I get my co-enzyme B's at Whole Foods. Its also sold on the Internet. The large bottle is not that expensive. Its best taken away from food (i.e., on an empty stomach). I use the Country Life brand due to not being able to tolerate the sorbitol in the sublingual tablets on a regular basis. I take it twice a day, once at night before bed and once on arising. My understanding is that its best to take B vitamins together since otherwise it can create an imbalance. I think also taking things like marshmallow root or slippery elm and scar eating and inflammation blocking firbonylitic enzymes (bromelain/papain--or papaya and fresh pineapple-- and nattokinase--or natto cakes-- or serrapeptidase) regularly that help heal the lining of the gut improves its absorpability. Maybe the pro-biotics act somewhat similarly?Glad you like the discussion. I think its important to explore the basis of our disease as well as possible remedies.

Unfortunatley there just isn't enough research being done. Like Pam Newman says celiac just isn't as profitable a disease for the drug companies to want to research it.That's interesting what you say about the Russian Jew and Polish connection. I ran into someone else at the Y who has that background too that also may have celiac.Maybe I should try some sauerkraut again just to see if maybe now I can tolerate it...BeaTrVerb@... wrote: Where do you find co-enzyme B? I am still low on b1, after injections and double doses of b1 pills. Also, the Scandinavian info is very interesting. My background is mostly Russian Jew with one grandparent Polish Jew. Big on herring and smoked fish. It's good to hear that sauerkraut is helpful - I've been eating a ton of it lately as a craving with pupusas. I do think food cravings often reveal deficiencies that your brain translates into a known food for you... Thanks for this interesting conversation. Tristan In a message dated 5/2/08 11:40:33 AM, beagarth writes:

Dear and Connie, I just am so glad we are having this discussion. As I said for me the current attitude that "nothing can be done" about the reaction to inadvertent exposure to trace glutens etc. after one has gone off gluten needs to change--since it seems there definitely are things one can do. Each person is probably slightly different of course--which is what makes researchers crazy I am certain. I am very glad to hear they are researching potential healing enzymes for this condition at Stanford. According to my 93 year old mother (a former anthropologist/According to my 93 year old mother (a former anthropologist/archaeologist with my dad), her beginning anthropology professorÂ Ollie Olson at the Univ. of California at Berkeley said that Scandinavian people needed to eat a special diet rich in fermented milk etc. as compared to other Europeans. Their ancestors after all relied on fermented Reindeer milk for a

significant part of the year. Plus they needed to take things like cod liver oil or eat lots of oily fish since otherwise they didn't get enough vitamin D. I also have learned that most Scandinavians did not eat a diet high in wheat until recently (like after the 1950's!) in places like Finland Sweden and Norway. Instead it was used just for special occasions. The peoples of the British Isles are also known for their difficult digestive problems of Unfortunately I am allergic to most fermented things; however most fortunately now I do well eating nonfat organic yogurt on a daily basis. What changed this was taking co-enzyme B complex vitamins since I am low on B-1 (necessary for basic carbohydrate and protein synthesis) and like most people with celiac I am not able to either manufacture enough B's in my intestines or get enough value out of regular B complex. The co-enzyme B vitamins go directly into the blood stream rather than having to be digested in the liver

and intestines first. I take the kind without sorbitol since I seem to have a problem with it. I personally think taking the co-enzyme B vitamins could help other people with celiac too. It has made a huge difference in my health overall. I now can use saunas etc. without fainting and actually sweat for instance plus no longer have a racing heart if I walk up a small hill or get a little concerned about something -- or burning legs and feet at night etc. My ex-husband was first generation Scandinavian American--and I know his family had a tradition of eating lutefisk--which may have had lots of B vitamins for all I know. I do remember him telling me it was smelly and "awful". I also have come to rely on taking cod liver oil as has the rest of my (partially Scandinavian and British Isles descent) family. I think in general it would be interesting for someone to investigate the old dietary practices and remedies of Scandinavians since they

seem to be the source (as far as I can figure) for this celiac condition--and the old Vikings then spread their genes around so to speak. Plus a significant number of the Scandinavian and British warriors were taken in by the old Roman Army during Caeser's time--which is why I think so many Italians also have this condition. Bea Connie Hampton <connie@hampton-connie@hacon> wrote: Probiotics donâ€™t last long in the body and need to be eaten daily for the best effects â€“ sauerkraut, kefir, kefired apple juice, traditional lactofermented pickles, etc.Â really help on a daily basis and are quite traditional.

Stanford researchers are working on an enzyme therapeutic to use against cross contamination but they are not there yet.Â Clays like pascalite (www.pascalite.www â€“ I donâ€™t get anything for mentioning them) also can help by sticking to the sticky gliadin peptides.Â Red wine has been mentioned as well.

I am so glad that you described all that you did, Bea.Â I will print this out and see if any of these herbs and vitamins help me.Â I usually just take my migraine to bed and lose 6 hours. Connie From: @ celiacbayar

@yah @ celiOn Behalf Of j. hogle Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 12:21 AM @ celiacbayar ce Subject: Re: [ ] Regarding chance glutening remedies Hi Bea: I don't mean to imply that "...just the probiotics are all

that is needed as a remedy."Â I am only pointing out research whose results, thus far, are proving "interesting. I don't mean to imply that "...just the probiotics are all that is needed as a remedy."Â I am only pointing out research whose results, thus far, are proving "interesting."Â I will follow it, other quality research, On the other hand, as you note, it may often be worthwhile to err "...on the side of kitchen sink methodology. On the other hand, as you note, it may often be worthwhile to err "...on the side of kitchen sink methodology..." because, as long as the kitchen sinks don't have any inherent problems themselves, we might as well try those potentially salutary tools (medicines, herbs, probiotics, whatever) that are showing at least a reasonable amount of anecdotal success.Â Â A good analogy might be the many people who were taking glucosamine and condroitin years before scienti The one

thing we need to be sure is that we and our loved ones don't fall victims to often-expensive scams by or products from vendors who know how to prey on people with illnesses, needs, and fears.Â Fortunately, there are numerous high-quality Web sites (such as Consumer Reports Health subscription site,Â the government's MedLinePlus,Â the Mayo Clinic, the not-for-profit Celiac organizations, and many, many more that can provide us with objectiveÂ

information on the "cures," "medicines," herbs, etc., that are of questionable value or are complete frauds.Â Hogle Freelance academic librarian Instructor, online research Email: jjhogle (DOT) jj Web: www.blueroom.www Reality ain't what you think it

is Art Graphics & Photographs [http://www.blueroomhttp://www.bluerhttp] ----- Original Message ---- From: Beatrice Garth <beagarth (DOT) bea> @ celiacb To Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 6:52:00 PM Subject: Re:

[ ] Regarding chance glutening remedies Hi , And here I thought it was the "glutenase" powder and the "glucoamylase" that made the difference with the Gluten-zyme etc.---not the probiotics. Due to your sharp eye I now see the 5 ingredient probiotic blend. Its great news however if the probiotics do help to such a great degree. The Gluten-zyme by the way also has varying different kinds of peptidase activity as well as "strong acid protease" and amylase. We do need double blind studies I agree wholeheartedly, both for regular supplements and herbs since they too really do seem to help in my experience and for other people with celiac that I know. However for now without the studies for the most part (except for the study you cite), its nice to know that its possible these

new gluten enzyme like products actually help--as well as the probiotics. I also think the enzymes in the pineapple and papaya helped me too--which makes sense since they counteract swelling and scar tissue formation. Question is of course, next time do I use the whole kitchen sink remedy or not? This is where studies are important, though probably for now for myself I can use trial and error--as a kind of personal science. For now I erred on the side of kitchen sink methodology since I did not want to get sick once again and just threw everything that I had available to me at it. I think it would be great however if various people here on the celiacÂ group did try some of these products and remedies and let us all know if it helped them or not when inadvertently glutened. At least it would be a start -- from "nothing one can do" (sigh!) to definitely

"doing something!"Â Since I was affected quite dramatically about 4 times this winter after I went "pure" with not only my diet but also my sundries etc. I am very happy I did not seriously get sick again. If as you imply just the probiotics are all that is needed as a remedy, I would be highly surprised. However I am open to that being true nevertheless. It would be great in fact since it would be so very simple...and fit in with some of the Northern European people's diet -- since in ancient times they practically lived on fermented reindeer milk for a good part of the year. Bea "j. hogle" <jjhogle (DOT) com> wrote: I'm glad that the Glutenzyme product worked for you, but I would like to see how well the Lactobacillus brevis, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Gluten protease, and Amylase in "Glutenzyme" works in a double-blind, well-controlled research study.Â On the other hand, in a recent peer-reviewed scientific paper available (abstract, at least) from PubMed.gov, Finnish researchers found that ..."Lactobacillus fermentum or Bifidobacterium lactis can inhibit the toxic effects of gliadin in intestinal cell culture conditions"Â and that it "...would clearly warrant further studies of its potential as a novel dietary supplement in the treatment of coeliac disease."Â Â Early stage research, but very

interesting. Below I've included the PubMed citation in Medline format for the paper that was published in the April 16, 2008 e-edition of the Journal of Clinical and Experimental Immunology. Cheers, Hogle Freelance academic librarian Instructor, online research Email: jjhogle (DOT) com Web: www.blueroom. com Reality ain't what you think it is Art Graphics & Photographs [http://www.blueroom .com/realityaint .htm] ============ CITATION ============ === Lindfors K et al. Live probiotic Bifidobacteriu. ..[PMID: 18422736] Related Articles, Links PMID -Â 18422736 OWN -Â NLM STAT -Â Publisher

DA -Â 20080421 PUBM -Â Print-Electronic IS -Â 1365-2249 (Electronic) DP -Â 2008 Apr 16 TI -Â Li ve probiotic Bifidobacterium lactis bacteria inhibit the toxic effects induced by wheat gliadin in epithelial cell culture. AB -Â Wheat gliadin induces severe intestinal symptoms and small-bowel mucosal damage in coeliac disease patients. At present, the only effective treatment for the disease is a strict life-long gluten-free diet. In this study we investigated whether probiotics Lactobacillus fermentum or Bifidobacterium lactis can inhibit the toxic effects of gliadin in intestinal cell culture conditions. The ability of live probiotics to inhibit peptic-tryptic digested gliadin-induced damage to human colon cells Caco-2 was evaluated by measuring epithelial permeability by transepithelial resistance, actin cytoskeleton arrangements by the extent of membrane ruffling and expression of tight junctional protein ZO-1. B. lactis inhibited the gliadin-induced increase dose-dependently in epithelial permeability, higher concentrations completely abolishing the gliadin-induced decrease in transepithelial

resistance. The same bacterial strain also inhibited the formation of membrane ruffles in Caco-2 cells induced by gliadin administration. Furthermore, it also protected the tight junctions of Caco-2 cells against the effects of gliadin, as evinced by the pattern of ZO-1 expression. We conclude thus that live B. lactis bacteria can counteract directly the harmful effects exerted by coeliac-toxic gliadin and would clearly warrant further studies of its potential as a novel dietary supplement in the treatment of coeliac disease. AD -Â Paediatric Research Centre, Medical School, University of Tampere, Finland, Department of Peadiatrics, Tampere University Hospital, Tampere, Finland. AU -Â Lindfors K AU -Â Blomqvist T AU -Â Juuti-Uusitalo K AU -Â Stenman S AU -Â Venalainen J AU

-Â Maki M AU -Â Kaukinen K LA

-Â ENG PT -Â JOURNAL ARTICLE DEP -Â 20080416 TA -Â Clin Exp Immunol JT -Â Clinical and experimental immunology JID -Â 0057202 EDAT -Â 2008/04/22 09:00 MHDA -Â 2008/04/22 09:00 AID -Â CEI3635 [pii] AID -Â 10.1111/j.1365- 2249.2008. 03635.x [doi] PST -Â aheadofprint SO -Â Clin Exp Immunol. 2008 Apr 16;. ----- Original Message ---- From: Beatrice Garth <beagarth (DOT) com> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:16:43 PM Subject: [ ] Regarding chance glutening remedies Last week I had both the confronting experience of being glutened by chance at a supposedly celiacÂ aware restaurant-- the bane of most celiacs--and discovered some remedies that actually worked for me. This after having gotten shooting D just from a food handler who prepared my tea after making someone else a sandwich in February as well as other equivalent experiences since I have gone off all trace hidden

glutens! What happened is that I asked for and got some pineapple and fresh papaya at the establishment I was eating at after I discovered they had put soy sauce in my dish (after I had been assured they wouldn't). I had already eaten about 1/2 my portion--and wasn't paying as much attention as I might since it was supposed to be a "safe" and experienced restaurant concerning the gluten matter. If I had brought along my papain/bromelain caps that would have been the easy equivalent to the pineapple and papaya. As it was the owner ran across the street and bought me some fresh papaya. I also immediately took some pancreatin enzymes I had brought along--a double dose. Right after dinner my date and I went over to a natural foods store and I bought this new product called Gluten-zyme by Country Life. There was another bottle of a different brand that cost a little more that also looked pretty equivalent. Again I immediately took a double dose. That night I

took another dose and two more the next day just to make sure. Instead of shooting D I had inflammation in my feet and calves which went down after I took my co-enzyme B vitamins. I wasn't home where I usually have my herbs and most of my stuff so I didn't take dandelion (to clean out the liver), cleavers (to clean out the lymphs), marshmallow root (to soothe and heal the lining of the intestines), and nattokinase or serrapeptidase (to counteract scar tissue in the intestines as well as inflammation) etc. until the next day--I probably should have got some at the store but wasn't feeling quite that rich. The following day my only other symptom was a small pimple on my face, often a sign of glutening in the old pre pure days before I went off all hidden gluten. I did feel a little depressed (another symptom) but then recovered after going for a long walk and working on clay (clay pulls out toxins through the skin of the hands and feet etc.). I bet going

for a sauna would have worked too. Taking the dandelion etc. also helped a great deal. It was a big discovery for me. I keep hearing there is nothing you can do except grin and bear it, but I discovered that at least for me there are remedies. I feel like I no longer have to be terrified of going out to eat, especially with these new gluten-eating enzymes out there. I wonder if this would help others? Methinks it would. Please try it in an emergency and let me (and us all) know if it does. I still think its not wise to court experiences like this, but hey they happen. Especially for someone like me that is actually trying to have a life outside of my safe cocoon sometimes. Another note--in case of shooting D right away (before you can take action or know you needed to), pepto bismol tablets or their equivalent work great. They are easy to carry in the purse or pocket or whatever. Another remedy is to make a tea with either blackberry or guava

leaves. Meadowsweet I hear also works. Bea Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Messages in this topic (23) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar Change settings via the Web ( ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity â€¢ Â 5 New Members Visit Your Group Meditation and Lovingkindness A Group to share and learn. Health Healthy Aging Improve your quality of life. Ads on Learn more now. Reach customers searching for you. . **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

May 2, 2008

Tristan,

It needs to be raw sauerkraut for the

probiotic effect – if you heat can it, you kill the good bacterial. But kraut

is so very easy to make! Slice or chop some cabbage and salt it with 3 Tbsp

for every 5#s of cabbage, put in jar and press down so that the juices cover

the top (or add more brine to cover) and keep on the counter for a day or three

until the bubbles show up then put in the refrigerator and enjoy.

Connie

From:

[mailto: ] On

Behalf Of TrVerb@...

Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 11:51

AM

Subject: Re: [ ]

Regarding chance glutening remedies

Where do you find

co-enzyme B? I am still low on b1, after injections and double doses of b1

pills.

Also, the Scandinavian info is very interesting. My background is mostly

Russian Jew with one grandparent Polish Jew. Big on herring and smoked fish.

It's good to hear that sauerkraut is helpful - I've been eating a ton of it

lately as a craving with pupusas. I do think food cravings often reveal

deficiencies that your brain translates into a known food for you...

Thanks for this interesting conversation.

Tristan

In a message dated 5/2/08 11:40:33 AM, beagarth writes:

Dear and Connie,

I just am so glad we are having this discussion. As I said for me the current

attitude that " nothing can be done " about the reaction to inadvertent

exposure to trace glutens etc. after one has gone off gluten needs to

change--since it seems there definitely are things one can do. Each person is

probably slightly different of course--which is what makes researchers crazy I

am certain. I am very glad to hear they are researching potential healing

enzymes for this condition at Stanford.

According to my 93 year old mother (a former anthropologist/According to

my 93 year old mother (a former anthropologist/archaeologist with my

dad), her beginning anthropology professor Ollie Olson at the Univ. of

California at Berkeley said that Scandinavian people needed to eat a special

diet rich in fermented milk etc. as compared to other Europeans. Their

ancestors after all relied on fermented Reindeer milk for a significant part of

the year. Plus they needed to take things like cod liver oil or eat lots of

oily fish since otherwise they didn't get enough vitamin D. I also have learned

that most Scandinavians did not eat a diet high in wheat until recently (like

after the 1950's!) in places like Finland Sweden and Norway. Instead it was used just

for special occasions. The peoples of the British Isles

are also known for their difficult digestive problems of

Unfortunately I am allergic to most fermented things; however most fortunately

now I do well eating nonfat organic yogurt on a daily basis. What changed this

was taking co-enzyme B complex vitamins since I am low on B-1 (necessary for

basic carbohydrate and protein synthesis) and like most people with celiac I am

not able to either manufacture enough B's in my intestines or get enough value

out of regular B complex. The co-enzyme B vitamins go directly into the blood

stream rather than having to be digested in the liver and intestines first. I

take the kind without sorbitol since I seem to have a problem with it.

I personally think taking the co-enzyme B vitamins could help other people with

celiac too. It has made a huge difference in my health overall. I now can use

saunas etc. without fainting and actually sweat for instance plus no longer

have a racing heart if I walk up a small hill or get a little concerned about

something -- or burning legs and feet at night etc.

My ex-husband was first generation Scandinavian American--and I know his family

had a tradition of eating lutefisk--which may have had lots of B vitamins for

all I know. I do remember him telling me it was smelly and " awful " .

I also have come to rely on taking cod liver oil as has the rest of my

(partially Scandinavian and British Isles descent) family.

I think in general it would be interesting for someone to investigate the old

dietary practices and remedies of Scandinavians since they seem to be the

source (as far as I can figure) for this celiac condition--and the old Vikings

then spread their genes around so to speak. Plus a significant number of the

Scandinavian and British warriors were taken in by the old Roman Army during

Caeser's time--which is why I think so many Italians also have this condition.

Bea

Connie Hampton

<connie@hampton-connie@hacon> wrote:

Probiotics don’t last

long in the body and need to be eaten daily for the best effects – sauerkraut,

kefir, kefired apple juice, traditional lactofermented pickles, etc.

really help on a daily basis and are quite traditional.

Stanford researchers are

working on an enzyme therapeutic to use against cross contamination but they

are not there yet.

Clays like pascalite (www.pascalite.www – I don’t get anything for mentioning them)

also can help by sticking to the sticky gliadin peptides.

Red wine has been

mentioned as well.

I am so glad that you

described all that you did, Bea. I will print this out and see if any of

these herbs and vitamins help me. I usually just take my migraine to bed

and lose 6 hours.

Connie

From: @ celiacbayar @yah

@ celiOn Behalf Of j.

hogle

Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 12:21

AM

@ celiacbayar ce

Subject: Re: [ ]

Regarding chance glutening remedies

Hi Bea:

I don't mean to imply that " ...just the probiotics are all that is needed

as a remedy. " I am only pointing out research whose results, thus

far, are proving " interesting. I don't mean to imply that " ...just

the probiotics are all that is needed as a remedy. " I am only

pointing out research whose results, thus far, are proving

" interesting. " I will follow it, other quality

research,

On the other hand, as you note, it may often be worthwhile to err " ...on

the side of kitchen sink methodology. On the other hand, as you note, it may

often be worthwhile to err " ...on the side of kitchen sink

methodology... " because, as long as the kitchen sinks don't

have any inherent problems themselves, we might as well try those potentially

salutary tools (medicines, herbs, probiotics, whatever) that are showing at

least a reasonable amount of anecdotal success. A good analogy

might be the many people who were taking glucosamine and condroitin years

before scienti

The one thing we need to be sure is that we and our loved ones don't fall

victims to often-expensive scams by or products from vendors who know how to

prey on people with illnesses, needs, and fears. Fortunately, there are

numerous high-quality Web sites (such as Consumer Reports Health

subscription site, the

government's MedLinePlus, the Mayo Clinic, the not-for-profit Celiac organizations, and many, many more

that can provide us with objective information on the " cures, "

" medicines, " herbs, etc., that are of questionable value or are

complete frauds.

Hogle

Freelance academic librarian

Instructor, online research

Email: jjhogle (DOT) jj

Web: www.blueroom.www

Reality

ain't what you think it is

Art Graphics &

Photographs

[http://www.blueroomhttp://www.bluerhttp]

-----

Original Message ----

From: Beatrice Garth <beagarth (DOT) bea>

@ celiacb To

Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 6:52:00 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Regarding chance glutening remedies

Hi ,

And here I thought it was the " glutenase " powder and the

" glucoamylase " that made the difference with the Gluten-zyme

etc.---not the probiotics. Due to your sharp eye I now see the 5 ingredient

probiotic blend. Its great news however if the probiotics do help to such a

great degree.

The Gluten-zyme by the way also has varying different kinds of peptidase

activity as well as " strong acid protease " and amylase.

We do need double blind studies I agree wholeheartedly, both for regular

supplements and herbs since they too really do seem to help in my experience

and for other people with celiac that I know. However for now without the studies

for the most part (except for the study you cite), its nice to know that its

possible these new gluten enzyme like products actually help--as well as the

probiotics.

I also think the enzymes in the pineapple and papaya helped me too--which makes

sense since they counteract swelling and scar tissue formation.

Question is of course, next time do I use the whole kitchen sink remedy or not?

This is where studies are important, though probably for now for myself I can

use trial and error--as a kind of personal science. For now I erred on the side

of kitchen sink methodology since I did not want to get sick once again and

just threw everything that I had available to me at it.

I think it would be great however if various people here on the celiac

group did try some of these products and remedies and let us all know if

it helped them or not when inadvertently glutened. At least it would be a start

-- from " nothing one can do " (sigh!) to definitely " doing

something! "

Since I was affected quite dramatically about 4 times this winter after I went

" pure " with not only my diet but also my sundries etc. I am very

happy I did not seriously get sick again.

If as you imply just the probiotics are all that is needed as a remedy, I would

be highly surprised. However I am open to that being true nevertheless. It

would be great in fact since it would be so very simple...and fit in with some

of the Northern European people's diet -- since in ancient times they

practically lived on fermented reindeer milk for a good part of the year.

Bea

" j. hogle "

<jjhogle (DOT) com> wrote:

I'm glad that the Glutenzyme product

worked for you, but I would like to see how well the Lactobacillus brevis,

Lactobacillus acidophilus, Gluten protease, and Amylase in

" Glutenzyme " works in a double-blind, well-controlled research

study.

On the other hand, in a recent peer-reviewed scientific paper available

(abstract, at least) from PubMed.gov,

Finnish researchers found that ... " Lactobacillus fermentum or

Bifidobacterium lactis can inhibit the toxic effects of gliadin in intestinal

cell culture conditions " and that it " ...would clearly warrant

further studies of its potential as a novel dietary supplement in the treatment

of coeliac disease. " Early stage research, but very

interesting.

Below I've included the PubMed citation in Medline format for the paper that

was published in the April 16, 2008 e-edition of the Journal of Clinical and

Experimental Immunology.

Cheers,

Hogle

Freelance academic librarian

Instructor, online research

Email: jjhogle (DOT) com

Web: www.blueroom. com

Reality

ain't what you think it is

Art Graphics &

Photographs

[http://www.blueroom

..com/realityaint .htm]

============ CITATION

============ ===

Lindfors

K et al. Live probiotic Bifidobacteriu. ..[PMID:

18422736]

PMID

-

18422736

OWN

-

NLM

STAT

-

Publisher

DA

-

20080421

PUBM

-

Print-Electronic

IS

-

1365-2249 (Electronic)

DP

-

2008 Apr 16

TI

-

Li ve probiotic Bifidobacterium lactis

bacteria inhibit the toxic effects induced by wheat gliadin in epithelial cell

culture.

AB

-

Wheat gliadin induces severe intestinal

symptoms and small-bowel mucosal damage in coeliac disease patients. At

present, the only effective treatment for the disease is a strict life-long

gluten-free diet. In this study we investigated whether probiotics

Lactobacillus fermentum or Bifidobacterium lactis can inhibit the toxic effects

of gliadin in intestinal cell culture conditions. The ability of live

probiotics to inhibit peptic-tryptic digested gliadin-induced damage to human

colon cells Caco-2 was evaluated by measuring epithelial permeability by

transepithelial resistance, actin cytoskeleton arrangements by the extent of

membrane ruffling and expression of tight junctional protein ZO-1. B. lactis

inhibited the gliadin-induced increase dose-dependently in epithelial

permeability, higher concentrations completely abolishing the gliadin-induced

decrease in transepithelial resistance. The same bacterial strain also

inhibited the formation of membrane ruffles in Caco-2 cells induced by gliadin

administration. Furthermore, it also protected the tight junctions of Caco-2

cells against the effects of gliadin, as evinced by the pattern of ZO-1

expression. We conclude thus that live B. lactis bacteria can counteract

directly the harmful effects exerted by coeliac-toxic gliadin and would clearly

warrant further studies of its potential as a novel dietary supplement in the

treatment of coeliac disease.

AD

-

Paediatric Research Centre, Medical

School, University of Tampere, Finland, Department of Peadiatrics, Tampere

University Hospital, Tampere, Finland.

AU

-

Lindfors K

AU

-

Blomqvist T

AU

-

Juuti-Uusitalo K

AU

-

Stenman S

AU

-

Venalainen J

AU

-

Maki M

AU

-

Kaukinen K

LA

-

ENG

PT

-

JOURNAL ARTICLE

DEP

-

20080416

TA

-

Clin Exp Immunol

JT

-

Clinical and experimental immunology

JID

-

0057202

EDAT

-

2008/04/22 09:00

MHDA

-

2008/04/22 09:00

AID

-

CEI3635 [pii]

AID

-

10.1111/j.1365- 2249.2008. 03635.x [doi]

PST

-

aheadofprint

SO

-

Clin Exp Immunol. 2008 Apr 16;.

-----

Original Message ----

From: Beatrice Garth <beagarth (DOT) com>

Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:16:43 PM

Subject: [ ] Regarding chance glutening remedies

Last

week I had both the confronting experience of being glutened by chance at a

supposedly celiac aware restaurant-- the bane of most celiacs--and

discovered some remedies that actually worked for me. This after having gotten

shooting D just from a food handler who prepared my tea after making someone

else a sandwich in February as well as other equivalent experiences since I

have gone off all trace hidden glutens!