Re: Why I MUST do MORE than just fish oils LONG read to the end

February 23, 2008

We are all looking for new approaches and what can help but we want

to keep it credible. MILK IS EVIL and other such statements are not

credible and take away from the integrity of what this group has been

for years. I appreciate that there are more children in this group

who must have much more severe issues or mental retardation -but my

messages are to those parents of the typical apraxic child like mine

who has normal IQ and who responds to what is basic. As I've said

before -if Tanner did not respond to therapy and fish oils I probably

would have gone down the more complex expensive biomedical routes -

but we didn't have to and many of us didn't have to. Too many today

will make statements that hold no water without any documentation to

back it up -we never did that years ago.

I also didn't say anything negative about NACD other than that it's

all that is brought up while the Association Method (AM) is no longer

mentioned -and AM is a proven method that has worked for many! My

message about NACD being expensive came from an archive of a parent

that tried it -not from me since again neither of my boys ever did

and it has not come up often in this group -except recently as if

it's the only way to go.

~~~from a recent message I posted about NACD

NACD -this one parent summed it up back in 2002

Dear Kim,

We have limited knowledge with NACD. The program

seemed very good but very expensive. It was also very

demanding and we found we couldn't keep up with it for

our daughter.

Deborah Lea

If I had a choice I'd go with an association school over NACD for our

children if one had the time and money for a special program.

http://www.usm.edu/dubard/

http://www.magnoliaspeechschool.org/general/associationmethod.pdf

And here is info from just one school that uses this approach

http://www.bridgestherapy.com/bridgesnew_files/Page828.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~end of archive

I also questioned the CAPD or APD diagnosis at toddler age because I

have a son diagnosed with ADD/ADHD and CAPD at school age. Dakota however has

in

spite of this been a top student (tested at 99% percentile) since

kindergarten -but a bit of an absentminded professor in regards to

planning etc. It's never affected his ability to have tons of

friends and be an awesome kid who has a great sense of humor. Who

knows -it's perhaps why he is so creative and comes up with so much

that blows everyone away. He is also very theatrical and after last

year being cast in a high school play while just in 7th grade he was

without audition cast in a broadway play that will be coming out this Spring.

Point is if I knew all of this would I have needed to " treat " him at

2 or 3 or even 5? So again my question is it NACD that diagnosis

CAPD at preschool age?! It would also be interesting to take

a " normal " child one is worried about to such a professional that

diagnosis CAPD at 2 and see what they are diagnosed with. Kids are

never easy for sure- but some of that is normal! I am not one for

piling up diagnosis on diagnosis -and in fact believe that can hurt a

child even more due to preconceived perceptions which are probably

not favorable.

I will send out on a separate message some information which will

validate what we have been talking about here for years.

This group is founded and owned by me -and I do try to keep things

open by keeping it uncensored -the messages are what they are. I

have no problem with anyone not agreeing with me and will always post

it and let all the other moderators know to post it. I have a

problem with any attacks on anyone outside of mine and those are the

messages that bother me. Perhaps my message was in response to

someone who was very mean in email to someone here who is too nice to

fight back and both parties know who they are.

Of course I do let everyone know when I don't agree and that's my

right just like it's your right to believe I'm being pushy. Perhaps

I was -but when I see new parents thinking they 'have' to take their

child to NACD or whatever I will jump in. Of course they have the

right to listen to you and not me. I encourage people to examine all

views and make the best decision for their own child. I personally

feel what worked for the majority for years is more important than

what worked for a few. (especially if the minority way is more

complex and expensive)

I will send out on a separate message some information which will

validate what we have been talking about here for years.

=====

February 23, 2008

,

Could you please tell me what fruits and veggies the doc said to

start with. I am playing around and tweaking diet daily but recent

events make me wonder if I am recycling issues so any info you can

share with me would be greatly appreciated on or off list.

Thanks!

Liz

February 23, 2008

, thank you for your heartfelt message. Your encouragement and

advice is spot on, in my view. Thank you!

And, PLEASE do not " walk the plank! " :-)

February 23, 2008

,

This is an amazing email. Thank you for sharing from your heart. As

one who has felt like I'm standing in the gap between reality and

hope (but longing to ONLY focus on the hope, even though things

happen every day that make me feel like I should cave in and accept

some reality that the " world " is telling me to accept) I so

appreciate your words. Owen has been on a GF/CF/SF diet for almost a

year but we just discovered a hidden source of wheat in something we

were giving him since last summer. In addition to that he has

occasionally drank from his brother's milk when I wasn't looking...so

I don't truly know the effect of this diet change or what he would

have been like not on the diet. It's really hard to say. He's also

been on fish oils for a long time, but now we're bumping those up and

adding E. AND, to top it all off, Monday night we'll give him him

first methyl-B12 shot. (Not seeing much about that on this group.)

I'm so thankful for the success your kiddos are having!!! Thank you

for caring enough about the rest of our kids to remain actively

wanting to share your story.

Warmly,

Pearson

mom of Owen, 33 months

February 23, 2008

Responding to fish oils is great. At a glance, all we want is for our

children to speak and act typical. (if typical even exists any longer)

I cannot understand how you cannot see diet as the first intervention.

What our kids eat effects them like fish oil, other supplements, or meds

they take. What if something they are eating is actually damaging them

but the supplemental fish oils are masking this? Isn't this a risk? What

about kids that are not able to function normally years later without

the fish oil or additional vitamins like E. Doesn't this tell you

something? Fish oils is not the cure.I don't think there is one cure.

Although again, I am not discounting this intervention which is very

important for many children. The underlying gut issue is common for most

of our kids , the symptoms are what range from mild to severe, simple or

complex. I am just emphasizing that simple apraxia, ADD, ADHD are

symptoms of an underlying condition that fish oils and therapy do not

address completely. Sure they may take away the symptoms that doctors

like to call the disease or condition but does the supplementing of fish

oils or therapy cure the real problem? Do you think that celiac disease

can be cured by supplementing fish oils? I marvel at the number of

parents with gut issues and their offspring with apraxia, or other

developmental issues. I am not saying that diet is a cure, but surely

parents must know how each and every food their child eats or drinks

affects them. Furthermore, a child that is addicted to processed carbs,

milk or unhealthy processed foods is the first indication that diet

needs immediate attention. As hard as it may appear to get a child off

of these foods, it can be done. If you can tell me that through long

term studies, that fish oils and therapy has healed the underlying

problem that caused the apraxia, ADD, ADHD, or the other developmental

symptoms, then that would be great.

kiddietalk wrote:

> We are all looking for new approaches and what can help but we want

> to keep it credible. MILK IS EVIL and other such statements are not

> credible and take away from the integrity of what this group has been

> for years. I appreciate that there are more children in this group

> who must have much more severe issues or mental retardation -but my

> messages are to those parents of the typical apraxic child like mine

> who has normal IQ and who responds to what is basic. As I've said

> before -if Tanner did not respond to therapy and fish oils I probably

> would have gone down the more complex expensive biomedical routes -

> but we didn't have to and many of us didn't have to. Too many today

> will make statements that hold no water without any documentation to

> back it up -we never did that years ago.

>

> I also didn't say anything negative about NACD other than that it's

> all that is brought up while the Association Method (AM) is no longer

> mentioned -and AM is a proven method that has worked for many! My

> message about NACD being expensive came from an archive of a parent

> that tried it -not from me since again neither of my boys ever did

> and it has not come up often in this group -except recently as if

> it's the only way to go.

>

> ~~~from a recent message I posted about NACD

> NACD -this one parent summed it up back in 2002

> Dear Kim,

> We have limited knowledge with NACD. The program

> seemed very good but very expensive. It was also very

> demanding and we found we couldn't keep up with it for

> our daughter.

> Deborah Lea

>

> If I had a choice I'd go with an association school over NACD for our

> children if one had the time and money for a special program.

> http://www.usm.edu/dubard/

> http://www.magnoliaspeechschool.org/general/associationmethod.pdf

> And here is info from just one school that uses this approach

> http://www.bridgestherapy.com/bridgesnew_files/Page828.htm

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~end of archive

>

> I also questioned the CAPD or APD diagnosis at toddler age because I

> have a son diagnosed with ADD/ADHD and CAPD at school age. Dakota however has

in

> spite of this been a top student (tested at 99% percentile) since

> kindergarten -but a bit of an absentminded professor in regards to

> planning etc. It's never affected his ability to have tons of

> friends and be an awesome kid who has a great sense of humor. Who

> knows -it's perhaps why he is so creative and comes up with so much

> that blows everyone away. He is also very theatrical and after last

> year being cast in a high school play while just in 7th grade he was

> without audition cast in a broadway play that will be coming out this Spring.

> Point is if I knew all of this would I have needed to " treat " him at

> 2 or 3 or even 5? So again my question is it NACD that diagnosis

> CAPD at preschool age?! It would also be interesting to take

> a " normal " child one is worried about to such a professional that

> diagnosis CAPD at 2 and see what they are diagnosed with. Kids are

> never easy for sure- but some of that is normal! I am not one for

> piling up diagnosis on diagnosis -and in fact believe that can hurt a

> child even more due to preconceived perceptions which are probably

> not favorable.

>

> I will send out on a separate message some information which will

> validate what we have been talking about here for years.

>

> This group is founded and owned by me -and I do try to keep things

> open by keeping it uncensored -the messages are what they are. I

> have no problem with anyone not agreeing with me and will always post

> it and let all the other moderators know to post it. I have a

> problem with any attacks on anyone outside of mine and those are the

> messages that bother me. Perhaps my message was in response to

> someone who was very mean in email to someone here who is too nice to

> fight back and both parties know who they are.

>

> Of course I do let everyone know when I don't agree and that's my

> right just like it's your right to believe I'm being pushy. Perhaps

> I was -but when I see new parents thinking they 'have' to take their

> child to NACD or whatever I will jump in. Of course they have the

> right to listen to you and not me. I encourage people to examine all

> views and make the best decision for their own child. I personally

> feel what worked for the majority for years is more important than

> what worked for a few. (especially if the minority way is more

> complex and expensive)

>

> I will send out on a separate message some information which will

> validate what we have been talking about here for years.

>

> =====

>

February 23, 2008

For the number of times I've started and stopped writing this note I

think I'm really at a loss for words. I guess I don't know how else

to say it but LISA HAS NOT INSULTED ANY ORGANIZATION OR CHOICE OF

THERAPY. We ALL have a right to express what we believe in and what

has worked for us. She has not said NOT to post what is working for

your children. She has NOT said DON'T do those therapies. She HAS

though expressed concern over how a FEW people appear to be

monopolizing the support board that SHE founded!

PLEASE be aware that what you post DOES indeed affect others. SHARE

what you have learned but please don't pass off questions with vague

answers if it doesn't pertain to what YOU are interested in. This

list is more than just therapies. Let's face it, as of right now

there is no CURE for apraxia. There are interventions that help and

we can all wish for a special diet or pill that makes it all go away

but if that were out there, well then this list wouldn't be

needed.

I would like to suggest that the best thing to do is if you have a

therapy that has worked for you that you put it in a file or ask

someone to do it for you and then specifcally direct people to it. If

they then have questions let them ask. That's what's being done to

people when they ask about fish oil and Vit E now, or worse NO ONE

ANSWERS because it is not the flavor of the month question. I

know because I was not answered when I posted asking what brand of

Vit E people were using.

Lastly, has the right to censor this group if she wants to but

she doesn't do that. Please don't ask her to censor what she

believes in.

McCann

February 23, 2008

For new folks get the recommended coagulation tests before jumping on

vitamin E. You need to know about bleeding and about celiac.

>

> NACD never gives a diagnosis. They just give you exercises to work

the child's ability or lack thereof. If they see that a child is not

responding appropriately to auditory stimuli, then they will give you

exercises to further work this channel and develop this skill set.

>

> If they see a child is not writing to age level, they will give you

exercises to strengthen the hand muscles, body core, improve

tactility and increase the exposure to areas where handwriting can be

developed.

>

> It is just plain old OT. It is just easier to discuss in some ways

and easier to recommend. Being from Canada, I cannot recommend an OT

in New Jersey that would deliver a comprehensive program for a

child.... but I CAN recommend NACD. This does not mean that there

are NOT OT`s in New Jersey or Florida or whatever state you can think

of that will not deliver a similar program.... I just cannot

recommend any since I have not that personal knowledge. I CAN

recommend NACD because I know that the product that the parent will

get is solid just a you can recommend a specific brand of vitamin E.

>

> , you found one post back in 2002 claiming that NACD was time

consuming and expensive and you continue to bring that quote out of

the wood-work over and over again. I tire of reading it! I wonder

how the original poster would feel about your using her words in such

a manner. I certainly would not appreciate it!

>

> I think that the only person that has posted the words that `MILK

IS EVIL` outside of one episode, months and months ago.... is YOU!

In actuality, I don`t know who the original poster of that message

was but it was obviously in jest, it happened months and months ago

and when you take it out of context, you really do make it sound as

though we are all nutbars and you insult us! There is really no need

for this....palpable hostility towards the group members on this list

who ARE writing and who ARE interested in helping others.

>

> If you wish to get the message of vitamin E out..... then write

about it! I had a mom email me privately and I recommended her

vitamin E but did not feel comfortable about advising her on brands

(since I am from Canada) or dosages since I am a vitamin E newbie

myself. Thus, I advised her to query the list and told her that she

would get some help from the gals on this subject. I was

disappointed to see that she maybe got one response and was just

redirected to the archives!

>

> I DO think that the benefits of Vitamin E get lost on this list but

it is not my area of specialty and I need to leave it to the vitamin

E `pros`to keep this message alive. I don`t feel comfortable about

advising moms on it BUT I am grateful for finding it for Mark! And,

I am grateful that I did go out and try a different kind of E since

he is doing quite nicely on it. I don`t know exactly how or why it

works and thus have trouble with telling other moms about it.... but

you do!

>

> So write about it and tell us and show us! You spend a lot of time

criticising others lately rather than giving us knowledge that I know

you have! Your words DO have importance but only when they are

constructive rather than destructive. So, please, enough of this.

It is so unbecoming!

>

> But really......... if you want to ensure the E message does

not get lost.... then you must continue to write, encourage and

promote it.

>

> So for those of you who are new.....

>

> DO try the vitamin E since it has worked for many of the youngsters

and provided a lot of benefits. But please make sure that you get

the right kind of E; it must be a specific blend.

>

> DO try milk elimination especially if you suspect any type of ear

issues going on with your child.

>

> DO supplement the Omegas. I don`t think there is a kid born in

this century who could not use Omega supplementation and our children

are especially known to be deficient.

>

> DO eliminate all of the artificial colours, flavours and MSG from

your child`s diet as much as possible. This is just good common

sense but is really important for children such as ours to avoid all

neuro-toxins.

>

> DO ensure that your child is not exposed to moulds and other

contaminants such as lead. Have your house checked at some point for

hidden dangers which may be compromising your little ones

development. Take a hard look at your child's toys and other items

in their environment and make sure that you are keeping your child

safe from societies harm.

>

> DO read the current research and as well as old research. Explore

what is and has worked for other kids. Develop your body of personal

knowledge of what is out there and what is working for others. YOU

are the expert on your own child and never let anyone tell you

different.

>

> Janice

> Mother of Mark, 13

>

> [sPAM][ ] Re: Why I MUST do MORE than

just fish oils LONG read to the end

>

> We are all looking for new approaches and what can help but we

want

> to keep it credible. MILK IS EVIL and other such statements are

not

> credible and take away from the integrity of what this group has

been

> for years. I appreciate that there are more children in this

group

> who must have much more severe issues or mental retardation -but

my

> messages are to those parents of the typical apraxic child like

mine

> who has normal IQ and who responds to what is basic. As I've said

> before -if Tanner did not respond to therapy and fish oils I

probably

> would have gone down the more complex expensive biomedical

routes -

> but we didn't have to and many of us didn't have to. Too many

today

> will make statements that hold no water without any documentation

to

> back it up -we never did that years ago.

>

> I also didn't say anything negative about NACD other than that

it's

> all that is brought up while the Association Method (AM) is no

longer

> mentioned -and AM is a proven method that has worked for many! My

> message about NACD being expensive came from an archive of a

parent

> that tried it -not from me since again neither of my boys ever

did

> and it has not come up often in this group -except recently as if

> it's the only way to go.

>

> ~~~from a recent message I posted about NACD

> NACD -this one parent summed it up back in 2002

> Dear Kim,

> We have limited knowledge with NACD. The program

> seemed very good but very expensive. It was also very

> demanding and we found we couldn't keep up with it for

> our daughter.

> Deborah Lea

>

> If I had a choice I'd go with an association school over NACD for

our

> children if one had the time and money for a special program.

> http://www.usm.edu/dubard/

> http://www.magnoliaspeechschool.org/general/associationmethod.pdf

> And here is info from just one school that uses this approach

> http://www.bridgestherapy.com/bridgesnew_files/Page828.htm

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~end of archive

>

> I also questioned the CAPD or APD diagnosis at toddler age

because I

> have a son diagnosed with ADD/ADHD and CAPD at school age. Dakota

however has in

> spite of this been a top student (tested at 99% percentile) since

> kindergarten -but a bit of an absentminded professor in regards

to

> planning etc. It's never affected his ability to have tons of

> friends and be an awesome kid who has a great sense of humor. Who

> knows -it's perhaps why he is so creative and comes up with so

much

> that blows everyone away. He is also very theatrical and after

last

> year being cast in a high school play while just in 7th grade he

was

> without audition cast in a broadway play that will be coming out

this Spring.

> Point is if I knew all of this would I have needed to " treat " him

at

> 2 or 3 or even 5? So again my question is it NACD that diagnosis

> CAPD at preschool age?! It would also be interesting to take

> a " normal " child one is worried about to such a professional that

> diagnosis CAPD at 2 and see what they are diagnosed with. Kids

are

> never easy for sure- but some of that is normal! I am not one for

> piling up diagnosis on diagnosis -and in fact believe that can

hurt a

> child even more due to preconceived perceptions which are

probably

> not favorable.

>

> I will send out on a separate message some information which will

> validate what we have been talking about here for years.

>

> This group is founded and owned by me -and I do try to keep

things

> open by keeping it uncensored -the messages are what they are. I

> have no problem with anyone not agreeing with me and will always

post

> it and let all the other moderators know to post it. I have a

> problem with any attacks on anyone outside of mine and those are

the

> messages that bother me. Perhaps my message was in response to

> someone who was very mean in email to someone here who is too

nice to

> fight back and both parties know who they are.

>

> Of course I do let everyone know when I don't agree and that's my

> right just like it's your right to believe I'm being pushy.

Perhaps

> I was -but when I see new parents thinking they 'have' to take

their

> child to NACD or whatever I will jump in. Of course they have the

> right to listen to you and not me. I encourage people to examine

all

> views and make the best decision for their own child. I

personally

> feel what worked for the majority for years is more important

than

> what worked for a few. (especially if the minority way is more

> complex and expensive)

>

> I will send out on a separate message some information which will

> validate what we have been talking about here for years.

>

> =====

>

February 23, 2008

Speaking of fish oil. Does anyone know of one that does not have the

borage oil in it? This I have posted before with no answer and I am

not being sarcastic. I am looking for genuine options.

>

> For the number of times I've started and stopped writing this note

I

> think I'm really at a loss for words. I guess I don't know how

else

> to say it but LISA HAS NOT INSULTED ANY ORGANIZATION OR CHOICE OF

> THERAPY. We ALL have a right to express what we believe in and

what

> has worked for us. She has not said NOT to post what is working

for

> your children. She has NOT said DON'T do those therapies. She HAS

> though expressed concern over how a FEW people appear to be

> monopolizing the support board that SHE founded!

>

> PLEASE be aware that what you post DOES indeed affect others.

SHARE

> what you have learned but please don't pass off questions with

vague

> answers if it doesn't pertain to what YOU are interested in. This

> list is more than just therapies. Let's face it, as of right now

> there is no CURE for apraxia. There are interventions that help

and

> we can all wish for a special diet or pill that makes it all go

away

> but if that were out there, well then this list wouldn't be

> needed.

>

> I would like to suggest that the best thing to do is if you have a

> therapy that has worked for you that you put it in a file or ask

> someone to do it for you and then specifcally direct people to it.

If

> they then have questions let them ask. That's what's being done to

> people when they ask about fish oil and Vit E now, or worse NO ONE

> ANSWERS because it is not the flavor of the month question. I

> know because I was not answered when I posted asking what brand of

> Vit E people were using.

>

> Lastly, has the right to censor this group if she wants to but

> she doesn't do that. Please don't ask her to censor what she

> believes in.

>

> McCann

>

February 23, 2008

NACD never gives a diagnosis. They just give you exercises to work the child's

ability or lack thereof. If they see that a child is not responding

appropriately to auditory stimuli, then they will give you exercises to further

work this channel and develop this skill set.

If they see a child is not writing to age level, they will give you exercises to

strengthen the hand muscles, body core, improve tactility and increase the

exposure to areas where handwriting can be developed.

It is just plain old OT. It is just easier to discuss in some ways and easier

to recommend. Being from Canada, I cannot recommend an OT in New Jersey that

would deliver a comprehensive program for a child.... but I CAN recommend NACD.

This does not mean that there are NOT OT`s in New Jersey or Florida or whatever

state you can think of that will not deliver a similar program.... I just cannot

recommend any since I have not that personal knowledge. I CAN recommend NACD

because I know that the product that the parent will get is solid just a you can

recommend a specific brand of vitamin E.

, you found one post back in 2002 claiming that NACD was time consuming and

expensive and you continue to bring that quote out of the wood-work over and

over again. I tire of reading it! I wonder how the original poster would feel

about your using her words in such a manner. I certainly would not appreciate

it!

I think that the only person that has posted the words that `MILK IS EVIL`

outside of one episode, months and months ago.... is YOU! In actuality, I

don`t know who the original poster of that message was but it was obviously in

jest, it happened months and months ago and when you take it out of context, you

really do make it sound as though we are all nutbars and you insult us! There

is really no need for this....palpable hostility towards the group members on

this list who ARE writing and who ARE interested in helping others.

If you wish to get the message of vitamin E out..... then write about it! I had

a mom email me privately and I recommended her vitamin E but did not feel

comfortable about advising her on brands (since I am from Canada) or dosages

since I am a vitamin E newbie myself. Thus, I advised her to query the list and

told her that she would get some help from the gals on this subject. I was

disappointed to see that she maybe got one response and was just redirected to

the archives!

I DO think that the benefits of Vitamin E get lost on this list but it is not my

area of specialty and I need to leave it to the vitamin E `pros`to keep this

message alive. I don`t feel comfortable about advising moms on it BUT I am

grateful for finding it for Mark! And, I am grateful that I did go out and try

a different kind of E since he is doing quite nicely on it. I don`t know

exactly how or why it works and thus have trouble with telling other moms about

it.... but you do!

So write about it and tell us and show us! You spend a lot of time criticising

others lately rather than giving us knowledge that I know you have! Your words

DO have importance but only when they are constructive rather than destructive.

So, please, enough of this. It is so unbecoming!

But really......... if you want to ensure the E message does not get

lost.... then you must continue to write, encourage and promote it.

So for those of you who are new.....

DO try the vitamin E since it has worked for many of the youngsters and provided

a lot of benefits. But please make sure that you get the right kind of E; it

must be a specific blend.

DO try milk elimination especially if you suspect any type of ear issues going

on with your child.

DO supplement the Omegas. I don`t think there is a kid born in this century who

could not use Omega supplementation and our children are especially known to be

deficient.

DO eliminate all of the artificial colours, flavours and MSG from your child`s

diet as much as possible. This is just good common sense but is really

important for children such as ours to avoid all neuro-toxins.

DO ensure that your child is not exposed to moulds and other contaminants such

as lead. Have your house checked at some point for hidden dangers which may be

compromising your little ones development. Take a hard look at your child's

toys and other items in their environment and make sure that you are keeping

your child safe from societies harm.

DO read the current research and as well as old research. Explore what is and

has worked for other kids. Develop your body of personal knowledge of what is

out there and what is working for others. YOU are the expert on your own child

and never let anyone tell you different.

Janice

Mother of Mark, 13

[sPAM][ ] Re: Why I MUST do MORE than just fish

oils LONG read to the end