Re: School Abuse on Dr. Phil - 12/5

[Guest guest]

Thanks for letting us know this show is to air soon. I will certainly be

watching this episode. There is so much school wide abuse going on today. I hope

this brings it to out in the open where the authorities can be more on the look

out for the the signs and prosecute them to the full extent of the law ! In most

cases the school denies these allegations and for some reason they seem to find

some loop hole to get away with it. I sure hope Dr. Phil can bring some good

awareness to the situation and hopefully give some great advice as to how to put

an end to it. Dr. Phil I hope you follow up on this world wide so that there

will be finally something done to these school officials. I know some of the

problem is that the public schools today seem to be hiring some of the worst

teachers out there I know in my state they sure have some very bad ones. They

are mean and degrading and are very rude too.

 

Jeanne

NH 

From: elmccann <elmccann@...>

Subject: [ ] School Abuse on Dr. Phil - 12/5

Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 8:04 PM

School Discipline: Out of Control?

When you send your children to school, you expect them to be taught

in a

nurturing environment. But what should you do if you learn your child

has

experienced extreme discipline by those entrusted to teach him or

her? Eva

and Doug's autistic daughter, Isabel, was 8 years old when her

teachers

claimed her behavior became too difficult to handle, so they sent her

to the

Time-Out room. Cameras captured Isabel's time spent in isolation,

which her

parents say lasted for over three hours. Her parents say they had

worked

with the teachers regarding disciplining Isabel and were panicked and

horrified when they saw the footage. Next, Martha says her 12-year-

old

daughter was in a classroom when $42 went missing. In an effort to

find the

money, a group of girls were strip-searched. You won't believe who

reportedly ordered the investigation. Martha says her daughter is

devastated

and will never be the same. Then, when 5-year-old constantly

complained that his teacher was mean and yelled at him, his mom,

Tabitha,

sent him to school with a tape recorder in his pocket. Hear the audio

recordings and find out the shocking information Tabitha discovered.

Psychologist Ken Merrell, special education teacher Kathy Riley and

civil

litigation attorney Areva weigh in on these cases. And, after

years

of being relentlessly bullied by fellow students, brought

the

torment to a tragic end. His father, Jeff, joins Dr. Phil and Jay

McGraw to

speak for the first time on television

[Guest guest]

I too am curious to see this, and I can guarantee you that there are some

awful teachers out there, teaching kids all the wrong stuff in an unkind

fashion. I have to speak in some defense of teachers though, because I am

one. I can speak of one reason why there may be a rise in school abuse (if

that is in fact really true). Teachers and schools have lost their power.

Expulsion used to be " forever. " If you did something awful enough to

warrant expulsion...you were gone never to be seen again in that school.

Where I teach, " expulsion " is only for a semester. I have personally known

teachers who were cursed at to their faces. They didn't respond in a

negative fashion but sent the offending child to the office. That child

bounced back to their class within the class period. What is to stop the

child from abusing the teacher? This child and many others continued that

behavior towards the teacher. This teacher did make a ton of phone calls,

talked to the student(s), offered extra help, got her husbands company to

spend money so that our school could offer after school help sessions that

involved the parents too. She did lunch and after school detentions, helped

kids before school, after school, and at lunch. She was a smart, competent

teacher. She no longer teaches at our school. She couldn't take the

abuse. She is not the first, and will not be the last. I have students

that daily disrupt the learning environment of my classroom. I may not

always use the kindest words but that is never my first response. I get to

that point when I have corrected the child, many many many many times. When

I have called the parent and the behavior continues. When I have talked to

other teachers, sent the child on a time out, sent the child to guidance,

helped the child, offered chances to improve work/class performance, changed

seats, blah blah blah....and yet the bad behavior continues. I had a child

this year hold a chair and threaten another child. He got a parent phone

call.. that is it!!! What is supposed to stop him from actually hitting the

kid next time? The other part of the truth is that the administrations

hands are tied too. There are only so many options for a badly behaving

child. In public school we keep them all! If the child has an IEP they may

be limited to 10 days of suspension. Other placements are limited...there

is only so much money to go around truthfully. If the parents don't know

enough to scream and shout to move their kids to an appropriate placement,

we get stuck. Sometimes the parents don't want their kids in another

placement (where they can actually get help). Many parents deny their child

has a problem, or even if they know their kid has a problem, the don't go

after a solution. Then let's talk about numbers. I have had classes of 36

or 37 and I am the only adult. I am way out numbered and if the kids get

rowdy...it gets to be hell.

The parents on this board are refreshing. They are aggressively seeking

solutions. You all aren't the norm (not in my school at any rate), you are

the rarity. Please when you watch the Dr. Phil show know that you may not

know the whole story. You do not know what the child has done before the

teacher's bad behavior begins. Realize that when you parent you do not

always make the best choices or say the kindest things. What if you were

caught on tape? Know that they won't show your moments of " Honey, would you

do ___(fill in the blank) the first 10 or 20 times you asked, they will only

show you when you are raging and angry the 30th time you asked. Have you

ever reacted badly to one child who is innocent because you were frustrated

with something or someone else entirely? Teachers do this too...we are only

human. Please watch with a grain of salt.

Sorry this is so long!

Noelle

On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 8:21 AM, Jeanne <jamie199866@...>wrote:

> Thanks for letting us know this show is to air soon. I will certainly be

> watching this episode. There is so much school wide abuse going on today. I

> hope this brings it to out in the open where the authorities can be more on

> the look out for the the signs and prosecute them to the full extent of the

> law ! In most cases the school denies these allegations and for some reason

> they seem to find some loop hole to get away with it. I sure hope Dr. Phil

> can bring some good awareness to the situation and hopefully give some great

> advice as to how to put an end to it. Dr. Phil I hope you follow up on this

> world wide so that there will be finally something done to these school

> officials. I know some of the problem is that the public schools today seem

> to be hiring some of the worst teachers out there I know in my state they

> sure have some very bad ones. They are mean and degrading and are very rude

> too.

>

> Jeanne

> NH

>

>

>

> From: elmccann <elmccann@... <elmccann%40>>

> Subject: [ ] School Abuse on Dr. Phil - 12/5

> < %40>

> Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 8:04 PM

>

>

> School Discipline: Out of Control?

>

> When you send your children to school, you expect them to be taught

> in a

> nurturing environment. But what should you do if you learn your child

> has

> experienced extreme discipline by those entrusted to teach him or

> her? Eva

> and Doug's autistic daughter, Isabel, was 8 years old when her

> teachers

> claimed her behavior became too difficult to handle, so they sent her

> to the

> Time-Out room. Cameras captured Isabel's time spent in isolation,

> which her

> parents say lasted for over three hours. Her parents say they had

> worked

> with the teachers regarding disciplining Isabel and were panicked and

> horrified when they saw the footage. Next, Martha says her 12-year-

> old

> daughter was in a classroom when $42 went missing. In an effort to

> find the

> money, a group of girls were strip-searched. You won't believe who

> reportedly ordered the investigation. Martha says her daughter is

> devastated

> and will never be the same. Then, when 5-year-old constantly

> complained that his teacher was mean and yelled at him, his mom,

> Tabitha,

> sent him to school with a tape recorder in his pocket. Hear the audio

> recordings and find out the shocking information Tabitha discovered.

> Psychologist Ken Merrell, special education teacher Kathy Riley and

> civil

> litigation attorney Areva weigh in on these cases. And, after

> years

> of being relentlessly bullied by fellow students, brought

> the

> torment to a tragic end. His father, Jeff, joins Dr. Phil and Jay

> McGraw to

> speak for the first time on television

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Abuse is abuse. No teacher should ever harm a child under any circumstances.

Hopefully this show will bring attention to those students with disabilities

such as autism being abused because of the very thing they are seeking help for.

Children with autism often cannot speak and can only explain their abuse through

behavior. I have heard so many awful stories this year of teachers/aides abusing

children with special needs in the name of therapy or intervention. It is sick

and criminal. Cover ups go on all the time. The worst part of it all is that

these teachers do not think anything of using electric shock, restraint or

locked rooms on a child who cannot communicate. They are taught that this is

alright and encouraged to use such things even when guidelines provide some of

these should only be used as a last resort. To add insult to injury most states

have NO laws to protect these children. Also, there is no law providing for

parents to be

notified if their child isrestrained or put in a locked room.  Try doing this

to a typical child and see the anger. Sadly, children with disabilities are not

put on the same standard- The HUMAN standard.  

>

> From: elmccann <elmccann@... <elmccann%40>>

> Subject: [ ] School Abuse on Dr. Phil - 12/5

> To:

< %40>

> Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 8:04 PM

>

>

> School Discipline: Out of Control?

>

> When you send your children to school, you expect them to be taught

> in a

> nurturing environment. But what should you do if you learn your child

> has

> experienced extreme discipline by those entrusted to teach him or

> her? Eva

> and Doug's autistic daughter, Isabel, was 8 years old when her

> teachers

> claimed her behavior became too difficult to handle, so they sent her

> to the

> Time-Out room. Cameras captured Isabel's time spent in isolation,

> which her

> parents say lasted for over three hours. Her parents say they had

> worked

> with the teachers regarding disciplining Isabel and were panicked and

> horrified when they saw the footage. Next, Martha says her 12-year-

> old

> daughter was in a classroom when $42 went missing. In an effort to

> find the

> money, a group of girls were strip-searched. You won't believe who

> reportedly ordered the investigation. Martha says her daughter is

> devastated

> and will never be the same. Then, when 5-year-old constantly

> complained that his teacher was mean and yelled at him, his mom,

> Tabitha,

> sent him to school with a tape recorder in his pocket. Hear the audio

> recordings and find out the shocking information Tabitha discovered.

> Psychologist Ken Merrell, special education teacher Kathy Riley and

> civil

> litigation attorney Areva weigh in on these cases. And, after

> years

> of being relentlessly bullied by fellow students, brought

> the

> torment to a tragic end. His father, Jeff, joins Dr. Phil and Jay

> McGraw to

> speak for the first time on television

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with you. Abuse of authority is still abuse no matter what. teachers are

no different in the eyes of the law than we as parents are. In my state if you

physically restrain or tie your child into a chair or even lock your child in a

room. These are some of the examples that were listed about the school wide

abuse. If we as parents did this to our children. If my state DCYS office gets a

report of any of these types of abuse ona  parent. Guess what happens? They

automatically start a full blown investigation on you and A to Z of your entire

life. They in most cases go in and immediately pull the child from your custody

most times right from the childs school they are at. The parents are not

notified until much later of it. The child goes into immediate state placement

and from there you got a long battle ahead of you . Which in my state you would

not regain custody of the child again.

 

So if we as parents can not get away with it?  Then why should a teacher or

school authority figure?

 

I know first hand what it is like to be abused by the school authorities. When I

was in high school I got bullied so badly that I started to fight back and stand

up for myself. The school admistration di niothing to the bullies. They actually

blamed me for it. i got suspended numerous times and even got expelled once.

 

I got bullied by the teachers and tormented with verbnal abuse by them. I was

sworn at called bad names by the teachers for standing up to the bullies. I even

got had my high school principal swearing at me and yelling at top of his lungs

right in my face some very rude things. So if that just one mild example of

abuse by a public school system. This is true story. The school is located in

New Hampshire and has a bad state rating. It also is well known as the worst

school district in NH for special education services.. If anyone here on the

board lives here in our beautiful state of NH. Would like to know where this

school district is located . i will gladly give you the information off list.

Just email me privately.

 

However i do agree with the teacher who wrote about that there are two sides to

every story.

 

Just keep in mind that this is a very true in some states there are huge cases

of abuse in the schools.

 

Biggest thing to keep in mind with Dr. Phil is he does tend to way over

dramatize things. He also can be down right rude at times. He also can over step

his limits too. I watch Dr. Phil a lot. I think shows like  this are fantastic

on these issues. For bringing the situations to light and make them awareness.

 

Jeanne

NH

>

> From: elmccann <elmccann (DOT) com <elmccann%40. com>>

> Subject: [childrensapraxiane t] School Abuse on Dr. Phil - 12/5

> To:

@groups. com<childrensapraxiane t%40groups. com>

> Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 8:04 PM

>

>

> School Discipline: Out of Control?

>

> When you send your children to school, you expect them to be taught

> in a

> nurturing environment. But what should you do if you learn your child

> has

> experienced extreme discipline by those entrusted to teach him or

> her? Eva

> and Doug's autistic daughter, Isabel, was 8 years old when her

> teachers

> claimed her behavior became too difficult to handle, so they sent her

> to the

> Time-Out room. Cameras captured Isabel's time spent in isolation,

> which her

> parents say lasted for over three hours. Her parents say they had

> worked

> with the teachers regarding disciplining Isabel and were panicked and

> horrified when they saw the footage. Next, Martha says her 12-year-

> old

> daughter was in a classroom when $42 went missing. In an effort to

> find the

> money, a group of girls were strip-searched. You won't believe who

> reportedly ordered the investigation. Martha says her daughter is

> devastated

> and will never be the same. Then, when 5-year-old constantly

> complained that his teacher was mean and yelled at him, his mom,

> Tabitha,

> sent him to school with a tape recorder in his pocket. Hear the audio

> recordings and find out the shocking information Tabitha discovered.

> Psychologist Ken Merrell, special education teacher Kathy Riley and

> civil

> litigation attorney Areva weigh in on these cases. And, after

> years

> of being relentlessly bullied by fellow students, brought

> the

> torment to a tragic end. His father, Jeff, joins Dr. Phil and Jay

> McGraw to

> speak for the first time on television

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have had to physically restrain a child who was running towards a street

and in a fit of rage. She was in a basket hold and may have been a bit

uncomfortable, couldn't really move, but she wasn't in pain. As soon as she

showed signs of calming down, she was returned to the building with myself

and another teacher as an escort. (We had been to a training on restraining

kids without harm.) I have never seen or heard of anyone using electric

shock,other restraints or locked rooms. That is awful. Kids do end up in

inappropriate placements, without appropriate support, and without

appropriately trained staff. When the semester changes I will have a young

man in my class who is autistic with unusual behaviors. I have yet to be

informed as to what behaviors to expect from him, what is acceptable, and

what his triggers are. I have yet to be informed how to best approach him

or communicate with him. I will have to ask before he comes to me. His

current teachers do not always know what to do with him and some teachers

are more creative than others.

I currently have a different young man in my class who is autistic. I think

he needs a 1 to 1 aide, the special educator thinks he needs a 1 to 1

aide...yet we wait.

Teaching is a difficult profession. At our school we are always working to

improve as individuals, as grade level teams, and as a whole school.

Noelle

[Guest guest]

Jeanne-Thank you for sharing those painful memoried. I am so sorry you had to

endure such abuse at such a young age. Sadly, what is going on in our schools is

nothing more than criminal in many cases. It almost seems as if the state gives

schools this carte' blanche to deal with kids with disabilities- mainly autism.

The worst part of it all is that it is a crime NOT to report abuse but when an

aide or para reports incidents nothing happens and the aide is often let go-

Ofcourse this is against the law but the aides don't know that it is illegal for

the school to fire them. I just hope everyone watched with open eyes and hearts

on Friday. Remember it is not easy for parents to fight this sort of thing. It

takes a lot of courage. I find the blog site below very informative in case you

are interested. 

http://familiesagainstrestraintandseclusion.blogspot.com/

 

From: Jeanne <jamie199866@...>

Subject: Re: [ ] School Abuse on Dr. Phil - 12/5

Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 7:33 PM

I agree with you. Abuse of authority is still abuse no matter what. teachers are

no different in the eyes of the law than we as parents are. In my state if you

physically restrain or tie your child into a chair or even lock your child in a

room. These are some of the examples that were listed about the school wide

abuse. If we as parents did this to our children. If my state DCYS office gets a

report of any of these types of abuse ona  parent. Guess what happens? They

automatically start a full blown investigation on you and A to Z of your entire

life. They in most cases go in and immediately pull the child from your custody

most times right from the childs school they are at. The parents are not

notified until much later of it. The child goes into immediate state placement

and from there you got a long battle ahead of you . Which in my state you would

not regain custody of the child again.

 

So if we as parents can not get away with it?  Then why should a teacher or

school authority figure?

 

I know first hand what it is like to be abused by the school authorities. When

I was in high school I got bullied so badly that I started to fight back and

stand up for myself. The school admistration di niothing to the bullies. They

actually blamed me for it. i got suspended numerous times and even got expelled

once.

 

I got bullied by the teachers and tormented with verbnal abuse by them. I was

sworn at called bad names by the teachers for standing up to the bullies. I even

got had my high school principal swearing at me and yelling at top of his lungs

right in my face some very rude things. So if that just one mild example of

abuse by a public school system. This is true story. The school is located in

New Hampshire and has a bad state rating. It also is well known as the worst

school district in NH for special education services.. If anyone here on the

board lives here in our beautiful state of NH. Would like to know where this

school district is located . i will gladly give you the information off list.

Just email me privately.

 

However i do agree with the teacher who wrote about that there are two sides to

every story.

 

Just keep in mind that this is a very true in some states there are huge cases

of abuse in the schools.

 

Biggest thing to keep in mind with Dr. Phil is he does tend to way over

dramatize things. He also can be down right rude at times. He also can over step

his limits too. I watch Dr. Phil a lot. I think shows like  this are fantastic

on these issues. For bringing the situations to light and make them awareness.

 

Jeanne

NH

[Guest guest]

I have a friend who was working as an aid in an autism school (NJ) who had

to leave on disability as she was attacked more than once by the

students -but one of them did something to her back after he knocked

her down. I've also posted how another friend of mine -this one a

teacher (also NJ) -had a gun pulled on her- a real gun.

It's also in the archives here how some children with severe

behavioral issues have hurt children. There are parents here who

have children that have been hurt by children with severe behavioral

issues.

This group represents the child that is the one with the severe

behavioral problem and the one that is not...the teacher that is

abused by the student and the student by the teacher.

Of course abuse is never right -but on the other hand keep in mind as

you post that there are both sides here as members.

All should learn -no excuse -it's never right coming from either side.

Here's an archive on behavioral issues with apraxia:

Re: Behavioral Problems with Apraxia

Behavioral problems do not go hand in hand with apraxia. They are

secondary to apraxia when due to frustration that goes above and

beyond the norm. First question is what placement is this child in?

(historically these issues happen more when preschool essentially

nonverbal apraxic children are placed into mainstream preschools) Is

Ethan in a mainstream or special ed preschool or both? I'm all for

mainstream k-12 -but have found special ed preschool the way to

typically go for apraxic children. (they do not learn to talk more

in mainstream classes -nor do apraxic children need to learn social

skills)

Of course all kids at this age go through frustration. I just heard

a story from one teacher about a " normal " boy who was upset and

grabbed a butterfly that the class watched turn from a cocoon to a

butterfly and tore off the wings in front of the class to the shock

and horror of the teacher and other preschool children. When the

mother was told what happened she got very upset and said " Why are

you picking on my child?! " Yes that's one way to look at it...

In the long run however we need to teach right from wrong -not make

excuses for bad behavior (late talking or sensory issues or not) and

to be consistent. Children should have a way to express anger,

frustration or other " bad " feelings in a healthy way.

(and learn that " just because ___ " they are not excused)

There is a ton about this in the archives -but here's one story about

a preschool apraxic child named Evan written by his mom called " A

very tough year " (schooled in both special ed and mainstream

preschool programs)

http://www.latetalker.com/information/familiesrelate/staci.html

And of course....archive!

kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote:

you can't underestimate the wisdom you have as a professional

just because it's now your own child. Try to think of how you would

have addressed this with a parent of a child in your class -and

follow your own advice. Don't feel guilty -our children do have

frustrations and in some cases some have behavioral issues that go

beyond the norm. No matter what we can't stop all the frustrations

for any child -special needs or not. We 'all' do what we can to

help our children learn what's the right way to deal with

frustrations so that they can be mainstreamed in school and in

life. For communication impaired children we have to consider there

may be more than meets the eye. First separate was he bullied in

some way which is still no excuse for choking someone but a wee bit

understandable -or did he just lash out inappropriately due to simple

frustration.

So, is there a bully situation going on that is causing to lash

out

at this other child? While working on alternative ways for him to

deal with frustrations and defense appropriately, it's probably best

to get to the bottom of it with the causes/triggers.

Have you thought of working in clay with to find out why he

acted out by choking someone, which is a potentially dangerous way

to deal with anger and frustration? As you say, not to excuse the

negative behavior, but see if you can find out what the cause was.

This may provide clues to the cause.

If you do believe there is some teasing or bullying going on -what

about doing a circle of friends in 's class? I have an archive

about how I did this in Tanner's class in kindergarten with Scooby

Doo. It works amazingly well. Let me know if you want me to find

the archive and links as to how the circle of friends works.

Information about this is also in The Late Talker.

needs to be taught what to do for anger/defense by acting

scenarios out perhaps. Give him a list of things he 'can' do such

as if talking well enough -leave and tell a teacher

if not talking -an augmentative way to leave and tell a teacher

(pictures -even one you make up and tell him to use when he needs it

if it ends up this other child is the bully. For emergencies -we

gave Tanner a whistle when he couldn't talk and he loved that even

though he thank God never needed to use it for emergencies.)

Then there is, in my opinion, a worse case scenario -simple

frustration caused to choke another child.

If it ends up that reacted poorly to this other child for

little reason and choked him when most would have just said " that's

my toy " , pushed vs. punched or whatever...Talk to about his

actions and explain why he's being punished. Take away ___ for

a day or so, have him make a picture of himself and the other child

for an apology picture. Let him know that he not only hurt this

other little boy's feelings, but that it's never OK to grab someone

by the neck and choke them. That if you or daddy did that you would

go to jail!

As far as punishments...

I don't believe in hitting a child to stop them from hitting

others. My brother sister and I were never spanked by our parents

so that's the way I was raised. However I do believe if this was

virtually unprovoked that 's actions need to be punished -and he

needs to understand why. He needs to learn that these types of

actions are completely unacceptable. Wild or not -and I have tons

of boys in my neighborhood that will fight here and there -they know

what not to do and choking is one of them. Choking isn't boys

acting wild -it's abusive, dangerous, over the edge.

And here's probably why you feel guilty -you know better. I hope

I'm not being too strong when I say the following -but I feel

strongly about this for a few reasons which I'll explain.

When a parent calls to tell you what happened -don't make excuses

for by saying " he's frustrated because he can't talk " I've

posted about a parent who did that with her son after he punched

Tanner in the face and made him cry and punched Dakota in the back

and made him cry because " that's his way of talking " his mother told

us with a weak smile. My husband went off on her as to how " that's

no excuse and we don't allow our children to " talk " this way " (both

Dakota and Tanner were " late talkers " and frustrated at times) That

was the first and only play date with this family -never again.

Don't fall into the parent trap of babying your baby this way/making

excuses for poor actions - or he'll grow up with few friends to play

with.

I recall does get ABA therapy (modified) and is mild PDD as

well as apraxic -am I right? Not sure on this one -but is it

possible the modified ABA isn't enough and he needs another kind of

therapy to help teach him how to deal with frustration appropriately?

Make a punching bag that he can hit whenever he is angry or

frustrated that you can have at home too. And here's the other

reason I feel strong about no excuses for poor behaviour. In the

long run you'll hurt your child so much more.

My boys never needed a punching bag -but my brother needed one when

we were all little to keep him from hitting my sister and me

when he was angry. And it worked. My mom and dad didn't coddle or

make excuses for my brother who was diagnosed by neurologist Dr.

Gold from Columbia as " hyperactivity child " years ago -he had

traumatic head injury from falling out of a window as a toddler. He

wasn't spanked -he was punished each time he did something wrong -

and my parents kept my sister and me safe from him. He once

picked up a brick in front of me and threw it at another child's

head. I don't remember why -but I remember the blood and the child

screaming and crying and I remember my mom and dad were furious at

my brother -no matter why he threw that brick. No excuses -he was

SO punished, and my parents made no excuses for my brother in spite

of his head injuries as a toddler! He was expected to act like a

normal person even if he had to be taught how to do just that. My

brother today? -he is a happily married father of two, a senior

partner in a NY maritime law firm today who also was one of the

youngest captains ever after graduating with honors from the

Merchant Marine Academy. He's so funny too -he'll make anyone

laugh.

So I can again tell you based on my brilliant brother who was the

biggest bully in the world as a child -who said to me " you are so

lucky mommy and daddy are here or I'd kill you " that today we

nicknamed him " camp counselor " because he's so sweet with children,

animals, and who is requested as attorney on billion dollar cases

because he's so calm and can get to the root of the problem while

keeping all tempers even - there is always hope.

No excuses -there's always hope.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~end of archive

=====

[Guest guest]

Noelle-

No doubt an ESE teacher has one of the toughest jobs. The problem comes when

IDEA is not followed because of a poor ESE Specialist who does not get proper

training for teacher and staff- not to mention proper supports for the child.

You should not have to deal with some of these issues on your own. A certified

behavior therapist should be called on to perform a behavior assessment and

plan. This rarely happens.

 

I am not against all restraint.  There are times when certain non-lethal

restraint may be necessary- However, prone restraint in my opinion needs to be

outlawed- It is already illegal in some states and many psych hospitals, yet a

teacher is permitted to use it.  There have been many reported deaths from prone

restraint yet the paid company that trains personnel continuously tout it as

safe. Seclusion rooms exist in many many schools. I believe the girl featured on

teh Dr Phil show was kept in one. I am glad to know that you are a caring

teacher- What I suggest is that at the IEP meeting you speak up and state what

you believe the student needs. If the student needs an aide he/she should get

one.

From: Noelle Brillant <noellebrillant@...>

Subject: Re: [ ] School Abuse on Dr. Phil - 12/5

Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 8:57 PM

I have had to physically restrain a child who was running towards a street

and in a fit of rage. She was in a basket hold and may have been a bit

uncomfortable, couldn't really move, but she wasn't in pain. As soon

as she

showed signs of calming down, she was returned to the building with myself

and another teacher as an escort. (We had been to a training on restraining

kids without harm.) I have never seen or heard of anyone using electric

shock,other restraints or locked rooms. That is awful. Kids do end up in

inappropriate placements, without appropriate support, and without

appropriately trained staff. When the semester changes I will have a young

man in my class who is autistic with unusual behaviors. I have yet to be

informed as to what behaviors to expect from him, what is acceptable, and

what his triggers are. I have yet to be informed how to best approach him

or communicate with him. I will have to ask before he comes to me. His

current teachers do not always know what to do with him and some teachers

are more creative than others.

I currently have a different young man in my class who is autistic. I think

he needs a 1 to 1 aide, the special educator thinks he needs a 1 to 1

aide...yet we wait.

Teaching is a difficult profession. At our school we are always working to

improve as individuals, as grade level teams, and as a whole school.

Noelle

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I appreciate your points- However, I believe (like some of the posts below)most

of the problems stem from the fact that these students are not provided with the

proper supports they should have from the beginning. Schools do not provide

proper training or supports to teachers either. Most bad behaviors are from a

child's unmet needs. If a teacher is getting so badly injured there is something

very wrong. Where is her support? Has a Certified Behavior therapist drawn up a

behavior plan? Is the child's placement correct? The problem is IDEA is rarely

followed. Most of the children I know who have these issues do not understand

empathy or consequences. Most have autism and cannot speak. Believe me I know

how challenging it can be to teach and care for them. However, We need to step

back and remember who the adults are. Aversives such as certain physical

restraints, electric shock and locking a student in a seclusion room for hours

is criminal behavior

bottom line.Not to mention a denial of a free and appropriate (FAPE)education

under IDEA. under  Parents should not have to fear that their child will be

abused each time they send him/her to school.

you can't underestimate the wisdom you have as a professional

just because it's now your own child. Try to think of how you would

have addressed this with a parent of a child in your class -and

follow your own advice. Don't feel guilty -our children do have

frustrations and in some cases some have behavioral issues that go

beyond the norm. No matter what we can't stop all the frustrations

for any child -special needs or not. We 'all' do what we can to

help our children learn what's the right way to deal with

frustrations so that they can be mainstreamed in school and in

life. For communication impaired children we have to consider there

may be more than meets the eye. First separate was he bullied in

some way which is still no excuse for choking someone but a wee bit

understandable -or did he just lash out inappropriately due to simple

frustration.

So, is there a bully situation going on that is causing to lash

out

at this other child? While working on alternative ways for him to

deal with frustrations and defense appropriately, it's probably best

to get to the bottom of it with the causes/triggers.

Have you thought of working in clay with to find out why he

acted out by choking someone, which is a potentially dangerous way

to deal with anger and frustration? As you say, not to excuse the

negative behavior, but see if you can find out what the cause was.

This may provide clues to the cause.

If you do believe there is some teasing or bullying going on -what

about doing a circle of friends in 's class? I have an archive

about how I did this in Tanner's class in kindergarten with Scooby

Doo. It works amazingly well. Let me know if you want me to find

the archive and links as to how the circle of friends works.

Information about this is also in The Late Talker.

needs to be taught what to do for anger/defense by acting

scenarios out perhaps. Give him a list of things he 'can' do such

as if talking well enough -leave and tell a teacher

if not talking -an augmentative way to leave and tell a teacher

(pictures -even one you make up and tell him to use when he needs it

if it ends up this other child is the bully. For emergencies -we

gave Tanner a whistle when he couldn't talk and he loved that even

though he thank God never needed to use it for emergencies.)

Then there is, in my opinion, a worse case scenario -simple

frustration caused to choke another child.

If it ends up that reacted poorly to this other child for

little reason and choked him when most would have just said " that's

my toy " , pushed vs. punched or whatever...Talk to about his

actions and explain why he's being punished. Take away ___ for

a day or so, have him make a picture of himself and the other child

for an apology picture. Let him know that he not only hurt this

other little boy's feelings, but that it's never OK to grab someone

by the neck and choke them. That if you or daddy did that you would

go to jail!

As far as punishments...

I don't believe in hitting a child to stop them from hitting

others. My brother sister and I were never spanked by our parents

so that's the way I was raised. However I do believe if this was

virtually unprovoked that 's actions need to be punished -and he

needs to understand why. He needs to learn that these types of

actions are completely unacceptable. Wild or not -and I have tons

of boys in my neighborhood that will fight here and there -they know

what not to do and choking is one of them. Choking isn't boys

acting wild -it's abusive, dangerous, over the edge.

And here's probably why you feel guilty -you know better. I hope

I'm not being too strong when I say the following -but I feel

strongly about this for a few reasons which I'll explain.

When a parent calls to tell you what happened -don't make excuses

for by saying " he's frustrated because he can't talk "

I've

posted about a parent who did that with her son after he punched

Tanner in the face and made him cry and punched Dakota in the back

and made him cry because " that's his way of talking " his mother

told

us with a weak smile. My husband went off on her as to how " that's

no excuse and we don't allow our children to " talk " this

way " (both

Dakota and Tanner were " late talkers " and frustrated at times) That

was the first and only play date with this family -never again.

Don't fall into the parent trap of babying your baby this way/making

excuses for poor actions - or he'll grow up with few friends to play

with.

I recall does get ABA therapy (modified) and is mild PDD as

well as apraxic -am I right? Not sure on this one -but is it

possible the modified ABA isn't enough and he needs another kind of

therapy to help teach him how to deal with frustration appropriately?

Make a punching bag that he can hit whenever he is angry or

frustrated that you can have at home too. And here's the other

reason I feel strong about no excuses for poor behaviour. In the

long run you'll hurt your child so much more.

My boys never needed a punching bag -but my brother needed one when

we were all little to keep him from hitting my sister and me

when he was angry. And it worked. My mom and dad didn't coddle or

make excuses for my brother who was diagnosed by neurologist Dr.

Gold from Columbia as " hyperactivity child " years ago -he had

traumatic head injury from falling out of a window as a toddler. He

wasn't spanked -he was punished each time he did something wrong -

and my parents kept my sister and me safe from him. He once

picked up a brick in front of me and threw it at another child's

head. I don't remember why -but I remember the blood and the child

screaming and crying and I remember my mom and dad were furious at

my brother -no matter why he threw that brick. No excuses -he was

SO punished, and my parents made no excuses for my brother in spite

of his head injuries as a toddler! He was expected to act like a

normal person even if he had to be taught how to do just that. My

brother today? -he is a happily married father of two, a senior

partner in a NY maritime law firm today who also was one of the

youngest captains ever after graduating with honors from the

Merchant Marine Academy. He's so funny too -he'll make anyone

laugh.

So I can again tell you based on my brilliant brother who was the

biggest bully in the world as a child -who said to me " you are so

lucky mommy and daddy are here or I'd kill you " that today we

nicknamed him " camp counselor " because he's so sweet with

children,

animals, and who is requested as attorney on billion dollar cases

because he's so calm and can get to the root of the problem while

keeping all tempers even - there is always hope.

No excuses -there's always hope.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~end of archive

=====

[Guest guest]

Thank you lisa. Yes it was very hard to endure that abuse at the time. yes it

very sad that these instances of abuse occuring. Yes it is often the aide who

reports or the person who reports it that loses their job in the end. In this

particular school district atr the time the principal that did the abusive

yelling at me was the assistant one. he actually got sued by a special education

students parents and it went to court. it ended with the students parents

winning the battle. In the end this principal was fired eventually not sure the

exact reason why. i also know that two of the teachers that were part of the

abuse also no longer work for this school. One no ones seems to knopw where he

is now . the other i think maybe ended up retiring. This same teacher also use

to drink vodka on the job. No kidding. It is true everyone knew it.

 

There have been some major changes done in this school district since then. Our

new special ed director this year she use to be involved in this school district

until this year and had been a part of the superintendents office for many years

there. I know her from when I was kid.

 

i recently saw her ina  meeting for son unrelated issue. Anyway she told me taht

some major changes have taken place in the school and district wide due to these

types of issues. Some faculty changes and admin changes have beem made.

 

I wish everyone the best of luck in your futures with dealing with these types

of issues. I hope no one on this list has to ever experience this type of

situation with their child, family,friends etc. thjose that have had experiences

on either side of the situation I hope youa ll find quick and fast and healthy

solutions to better everyone. I sincerely hope that by watching this Dr. Phil

that everyone ends up with more knowledge and keeps an open mind.

 

jeanne

NH

From: Jeanne <jamie199866>

Subject: Re: [childrensapraxiane t] School Abuse on Dr. Phil - 12/5

@groups. com

Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 7:33 PM

I agree with you. Abuse of authority is still abuse no matter what. teachers are

no different in the eyes of the law than we as parents are. In my state if you

physically restrain or tie your child into a chair or even lock your child in a

room. These are some of the examples that were listed about the school wide

abuse. If we as parents did this to our children. If my state DCYS office gets a

report of any of these types of abuse ona  parent. Guess what happens? They

automatically start a full blown investigation on you and A to Z of your entire

life. They in most cases go in and immediately pull the child from your custody

most times right from the childs school they are at. The parents are not

notified until much later of it. The child goes into immediate state placement

and from there you got a long battle ahead of you . Which in my state you would

not regain custody of the child again.

 

So if we as parents can not get away with it?  Then why should a teacher or

school authority figure?

 

I know first hand what it is like to be abused by the school authorities. When

I was in high school I got bullied so badly that I started to fight back and

stand up for myself. The school admistration di niothing to the bullies. They

actually blamed me for it. i got suspended numerous times and even got expelled

once.

 

I got bullied by the teachers and tormented with verbnal abuse by them. I was

sworn at called bad names by the teachers for standing up to the bullies. I even

got had my high school principal swearing at me and yelling at top of his lungs

right in my face some very rude things. So if that just one mild example of

abuse by a public school system. This is true story. The school is located in

New Hampshire and has a bad state rating. It also is well known as the worst

school district in NH for special education services.. If anyone here on the

board lives here in our beautiful state of NH. Would like to know where this

school district is located . i will gladly give you the information off list.

Just email me privately.

 

However i do agree with the teacher who wrote about that there are two sides to

every story.

 

Just keep in mind that this is a very true in some states there are huge cases

of abuse in the schools.

 

Biggest thing to keep in mind with Dr. Phil is he does tend to way over

dramatize things. He also can be down right rude at times. He also can over step

his limits too. I watch Dr. Phil a lot. I think shows like  this are fantastic

on these issues. For bringing the situations to light and make them awareness.

 

Jeanne

NH

[Guest guest]

I agree that abuse of authority is abuse of authority and that no child

should be tied to a chair or locked in a room!! How scary to be the child

and to be the parent of the child to find this is happening.

Kids who bully kids (and sometimes adults too) are a significant and

challenging problem. As a teacher sometimes I see things happen and wonder

how to deal with them or wonder why they are handled the way they are

handled when they get to administration (case in point I mentioned before

that I had a kid hold a chair in his hand and threaten another kid...the kid

who did the threatening got a phone call home by administration...what is a

phone call home when you have physically threatened someone??) I have

talked to kids about things they have done/seen/heard and tried to determine

" does this fit the label of bullying? " I too have been treated incredibly

unkindly and publicly humiliated by a teacher and was witness to that same

teacher treat other kids badly. I have talked to numerous kids about how

they felt they were treated by an adult. I have apologized to kids for

things that I have said that didn't come out the right way. I have talked

to kids who refuse to disclose the name of who is bullying them. I am

currently struggling with how to handle kids who have very challenging

behaviors on a daily basis. How do I educate them? How do I help them

change their behavior? What are my resources? What do I do when I have no

resources? How do I manage these difficult kids and attempt to teach the

other 30 or more kids that are sitting in my room?

I appreciate 's comments on not accepting inappropriate behavior because

the child has _____ issues.

It is a difficult knot to untangle. It is good to have discussions and

bring things to light. School systems need the support of their communities

to be successful. It does take a village.

Noelle

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 7:33 PM, Jeanne <jamie199866@...>wrote:

> I agree with you. Abuse of authority is still abuse no matter what.

> teachers are no different in the eyes of the law than we as parents are. In

> my state if you physically restrain or tie your child into a chair or even

> lock your child in a room. These are some of the examples that were listed

> about the school wide abuse. If we as parents did this to our children. If

> my state DCYS office gets a report of any of these types of abuse ona

> parent. Guess what happens? They automatically start a full blown

> investigation on you and A to Z of your entire life. They in most cases go

> in and immediately pull the child from your custody most times right from

> the childs school they are at. The parents are not notified until much later

> of it. The child goes into immediate state placement and from there you got

> a long battle ahead of you . Which in my state you would not regain custody

> of the child again.

>

> So if we as parents can not get away with it? Then why should a teacher or

> school authority figure?

>

> I know first hand what it is like to be abused by the school authorities.

> When I was in high school I got bullied so badly that I started to fight

> back and stand up for myself. The school admistration di niothing to the

> bullies. They actually blamed me for it. i got suspended numerous times and

> even got expelled once.

>

> I got bullied by the teachers and tormented with verbnal abuse by them. I

> was sworn at called bad names by the teachers for standing up to the

> bullies. I even got had my high school principal swearing at me and yelling

> at top of his lungs right in my face some very rude things. So if that just

> one mild example of abuse by a public school system. This is true story. The

> school is located in New Hampshire and has a bad state rating. It also is

> well known as the worst school district in NH for special education

> services.. If anyone here on the board lives here in our beautiful state of

> NH. Would like to know where this school district is located . i will gladly

> give you the information off list. Just email me privately.

>

> However i do agree with the teacher who wrote about that there are two

> sides to every story.

>

> Just keep in mind that this is a very true in some states there are huge

> cases of abuse in the schools.

>

> Biggest thing to keep in mind with Dr. Phil is he does tend to way over

> dramatize things. He also can be down right rude at times. He also can over

> step his limits too. I watch Dr. Phil a lot. I think shows like this are

> fantastic on these issues. For bringing the situations to light and make

> them awareness.

>

> Jeanne

> NH

>

>

> >

> > From: elmccann <elmccann (DOT) com <elmccann%40. com>>

> > Subject: [childrensapraxiane t] School Abuse on Dr. Phil - 12/5

> > To:

> @groups. com<childrensapraxiane t%40groups.

> com>

> > Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 8:04 PM

> >

> >

> > School Discipline: Out of Control?

> >

> > When you send your children to school, you expect them to be taught

> > in a

> > nurturing environment. But what should you do if you learn your child

> > has

> > experienced extreme discipline by those entrusted to teach him or

> > her? Eva

> > and Doug's autistic daughter, Isabel, was 8 years old when her

> > teachers

> > claimed her behavior became too difficult to handle, so they sent her

> > to the

> > Time-Out room. Cameras captured Isabel's time spent in isolation,

> > which her

> > parents say lasted for over three hours. Her parents say they had

> > worked

> > with the teachers regarding disciplining Isabel and were panicked and

> > horrified when they saw the footage. Next, Martha says her 12-year-

> > old

> > daughter was in a classroom when $42 went missing. In an effort to

> > find the

> > money, a group of girls were strip-searched. You won't believe who

> > reportedly ordered the investigation. Martha says her daughter is

> > devastated

> > and will never be the same. Then, when 5-year-old constantly

> > complained that his teacher was mean and yelled at him, his mom,

> > Tabitha,

> > sent him to school with a tape recorder in his pocket. Hear the audio

> > recordings and find out the shocking information Tabitha discovered.

> > Psychologist Ken Merrell, special education teacher Kathy Riley and

> > civil

> > litigation attorney Areva weigh in on these cases. And, after

> > years

> > of being relentlessly bullied by fellow students, brought

> > the

> > torment to a tragic end. His father, Jeff, joins Dr. Phil and Jay

> > McGraw to

> > speak for the first time on television

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Often the problem is $. Schools receive federal and state funding specifically

slated so they can pull resources for your kind of situation. Often they prefer

touse this money elsewhere or just not spend it at all. A parent typically has

to fight to get the support a child needs. Gen Ed teachers need training and

support (paras/ aides) from other trained staff in the classroom. Often the

child is set up for failure. Rarely does staff properly prepare for a child to

be placed in gen ed. IDEA specifically states: ...place the child in the least

restrictive environment ..given PROPER SUPPORTS AND ACCOMODATIONS. It will take

a lot to fix this problem.

From: Noelle Brillant <noellebrillant@...>

Subject: Re: [ ] School Abuse on Dr. Phil - 12/5

Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 10:19 PM

I agree that abuse of authority is abuse of authority and that no child

should be tied to a chair or locked in a room!! How scary to be the child

and to be the parent of the child to find this is happening.

Kids who bully kids (and sometimes adults too) are a significant and

challenging problem. As a teacher sometimes I see things happen and wonder

how to deal with them or wonder why they are handled the way they are

handled when they get to administration (case in point I mentioned before

that I had a kid hold a chair in his hand and threaten another kid...the kid

who did the threatening got a phone call home by administration...what is a

phone call home when you have physically threatened someone??) I have

talked to kids about things they have done/seen/heard and tried to determine

" does this fit the label of bullying? " I too have been treated

incredibly

unkindly and publicly humiliated by a teacher and was witness to that same

teacher treat other kids badly. I have talked to numerous kids about how

they felt they were treated by an adult. I have apologized to kids for

things that I have said that didn't come out the right way. I have talked

to kids who refuse to disclose the name of who is bullying them. I am

currently struggling with how to handle kids who have very challenging

behaviors on a daily basis. How do I educate them? How do I help them

change their behavior? What are my resources? What do I do when I have no

resources? How do I manage these difficult kids and attempt to teach the

other 30 or more kids that are sitting in my room?

I appreciate 's comments on not accepting inappropriate behavior

because

the child has _____ issues.

It is a difficult knot to untangle. It is good to have discussions and

bring things to light. School systems need the support of their communities

to be successful. It does take a village.

Noelle