Re: Drooling:: what to do for 6yo

March 7, 2008

Amy, thank you! As a parent of a child who had crushed facial nerves

from a traumatic birth injury which created oral motor weakness and

horrible drooling back when my oldest was preschool -I know how

anxious we can become as parents when our child is drooling. Thank

you once again for sharing great insight and therapy resources. Any

thoughts on the drooling remediation kit that Sara has on her site?

http://www.talktools.net/site/web-content/products/1031.html There

are many other therapy sources out there if you search under it -also

on my one archive message there were a few links.

Back when Dakota was younger we didn't have these type of resources -

but thank goodness for therapists like you -Dakota was no longer

drooling much by the time he started preschool -and it was resolved

by the time he started kindergarten! I can't imagine a therapist not

mentioning the drooling as it's a tease issue for a school aged child

and needs to be addressed as soon as possible.

On a funny note...did get some helpful hints from TV too. I learned

from one of the episodes of nne (yes the comedian that used to be

on TV!) that frozen waffles were good to give to kids that were

teething because the holes in the waffles " catch the drool " . Yuck -

but it worked and was probably good for oral motor strengthening

too!

=====

March 7, 2008

For a child that has a speech impairment -and a drooling problem -

last thing one would think anyone would do is eliminate milk which

has no valid link to drooling - and put this speech impaired,

drooling school aged child at risk to be short, overweight with poor

bone health/prone to fractures. (see study below) I like the way

Janice suggested it if one wanted to try it -3 weeks off- and try on

and off and see if you see a difference. Of course if you see a

negative reaction I too would go by my own child's reaction even with

lack of any credible information out there to support what I was

seeing...

But again historically the great majority of us never stopped milk -

nor did it come up much...and again most of the parents of these milk

drinking children are off doing " normal " stuff with their kids today

who are mainstreamed -not teased -doing well in school in most cases -

and yes at one time diagnosed severe apraxic etc. (see post from

below who's child stopped drooling she reports once on EFAs -

but was still in therapy)

It's OK to share all sides and if you have a good experience with

stopping milk that's great to share -but keep in mind there are new

parents here and stopping milk isn't the first step of what to do if

you have a late talker or a child just diagnosed apraxic. If the

basics don't work one may want to explore other things.

Over the years most of us have tried many alternatives like listening

therapy, cranial sacral therapy -but for the most part we keep it

simple -therapy and EFAs and now vitamin E for most (and before that

one person jumps in again to say that this is not simple -I didn't

say easy -I mean it doesn't have to be complicated or expensive)

It's like the sauna -I love saunas and if I had the money and room to

put one in my house perhaps I would too. Who wouldn't want a sauna

in their home?! Not sure if it would help therapy wise -but as the

article Heavy Metal Sweat says -it feels good!

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000A6B6E-42B1-1334-82B183414B7F0000

The one thing I don't get is the milk thing -we can count the people

that post about it as it's pretty much always the same people. I

know I posted it before and some of you can't give milk -but for

those that are new and just want to try this -please don't try it

first as you may never have to. You may never have to go to a Dan

either -it's good to know about these things if the simple things

that work for most don't work for your child. But they are more

complex and expensive ways that most don't have to do.

And while diets can be life saving when there are allergies -some of

our beliefs -like a detox diet for example may be proved worthless.

Just the other day Oprah had Dr. Oz on and he took a group of 8 woman

who were out partying and eating like crap and while half went on a

detox diet -the other half ate normal. Dr. Oz thought there would be

a difference. Even Dr. Oz was shocked to learn that there is no such

thing as detox diet -no change in the two groups at all. That one

half had to drink " spinach, garlic, and onion " juice for nothing!!

No change at all!!! Did anyone else see this but me? If not see the

article link below. (I love Dr. Oz)

If diet is needed by some fine -but again don't just assume

that " your child is apraxic -stop milk " because it may be a way of

making your poor child drink " spinach, garlic, and onion " juice. Or

perhaps milk elimination is worse -because again of what it can

cause. If you do eliminate it make sure it's with guidance from a

reputable medical doctor.

Children who avoid drinking cow milk have low dietary calcium intakes

and poor bone health1,2,3

Conclusions: In growing children, long-term avoidance of cow milk is

associated with small stature and poor bone health. This is a major

concern that warrants further study.

The high proportion of overweight and obese children in the present

study was an unexpected finding, particularly because many of the

children had been breast-fed for prolonged periods (44). Because we

did not measure energy balance in our study, we cannot say whether

the high adiposity of these children was due to excessive energy

intakes or to inadequate energy expenditure. It could be that the

milk avoiders were drinking more high-energy substitute fluids, such

as fruit juice or carbonated drinks. Short stature and obesity have

been reported in children who consume excessive amount of fruit juice

(45), although not always (46). Alternatively, the milk avoiders in

the present study may have been less physically active than the

control subjects. Low activity would have affected bone growth

adversely because intermittent weight-bearing exercise is a

critically important stimulus to osteogenesis in prepubertal children

(47–50). Another possible mechanism contributing to the high

adiposity we observed in the milk avoiders was that their high body

weights were linked to their low calcium intakes. Recent studies

suggest that low dietary calcium intakes can stimulate lipogenesis

and inhibit lipolysis simultaneously, resulting in the accumulation

of body fat (51–54).

In summary, our study of young male and female prepubertal children

with a long history of avoiding cow-milk consumption has identified

major problems in bone health (eg, small bones, low aBMD and

volumetric BMAD, and a high prevalence of bone fractures) that many

health professionals and members of the general public appear to be

unaware of. Short stature and high adiposity were other health

concerns. Ideally, a full dietary assessment of children who avoid

milk consumption seems warranted to help identify possible

nutritional deficiencies or excesses. Future studies of bone health

in larger populations of children who avoid the consumption of cow

milk are desirable to confirm our findings and to determine whether

the problems associated with this dietary pattern resolve as the

children grow (4). In the interim it seems prudent to advise parents

of all children who do not drink cow milk that they should seek

professional nutritional advice to help optimize their children's

bone health.

Key Words: Dietary calcium • bone density • milk avoidance •

children • obesity • fractures • cow milk allergy • New Zealand

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/76/3/675

And for sure this is what happens if one doesn't do milk elimination

under supervision.

Multiple Bone Fractures in an 8-Year-Old Child with Cow's Milk

Allergy and Inappropriate Calcium Supplementation

Giovanna Montia, Valentina Libanorea, Letizia Marinaroa, o

Lalab, o Minieroa, Francesco Savinoa

aFood Allergy Service, Department of Pediatric and Adolescence

Science, and

bDivision of Pediatric Endocrinology, Regina Margherita Children's

Hospital, Turin, Italy

Abstract

The case of an 8-year-old boy with severe bone mass reduction and 4

fractures as a result of an unsupervised diet established to treat

cow's milk allergy is presented. Endocrine, genetic and orthopedic

pathologies were excluded. While vitamin D intake had always been

appropriate, his calcium intake had been inadequate for many years.

This clinical report suggests that both vitamin D and calcium

supplementation are necessary when a cow's milk protein-free diet is

prescribed, even when a hypo- or non-allergenic formula is provided.

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowPDF & ArtikelNr=10414\

2 & Ausgabe=233284 & ProduktNr=223977 & filename=104142.pdf

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~article

Dr. Oz tells viewers if Detox Diets really Work on the 'Oprah' TV Show

[best Syndication] A detox diet is a popular fad that is going around

where a person drastically changes their diet by either fasting or

eating raw vegetables and certain `health' foods to purge the body of

harmful toxins.

Dr. Oz is hosting a show called `The Truth about Food' which is on

the Discovery Channel. This show shows a number of studies that they

conducted to see if food can be beneficial to your health.

To find out if a detox diet can be helpful they recruited 10 women

that admitted to have liked to party a little too much. They divided

the women into two groups, one that was put on a detox diet, and

another that ate a normal diet.

The detox diet group had to eat an awful combination of foods. For

breakfast they were to drink a fresh vegetable juice that contained

spinach, garlic, and onions. They also had Beet root shakes and

seaweed salads. It was not a pleasant diet the detox diet.

The research included collecting both groups urine samples during the

duration of the study. The finding showed that the liver was still

doing the same things.

Dr. Oz said that the detox diet had no impact at all as far as

removing toxins from the body. Toxins go to the liver and the brain

and if they were to be removed would take a very long time to do so.

He said that detox diets can jumpstart you into healthier eating

habits. By shocking your system, you could start a long term change

for the long haul by reducing sugar and salt cravings.

By

Best Syndication News Writer

http://www.bestsyndication.com/?q=091807_dr_oz_tells_if_rapid_detox_programs_wor\

k_on_oprah.htm

From a mom who's child used to drool prior to EFAs. used to

run Cherab of Ohio support -but like many " old timers " who have

children doing well today -she has not posted recently.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~archive from 2002

Wed Jan 9, 2002 5:17 pm

" Larry " <hugheslke@...

I would be glad to share with you how my son was before the Efalex. I

love

to talk about it to anyone who listens without doubt about the

strides he

has made on EFA's!

I started Liam on Efalex in June (2y and 4months) when someone

mentioned the

word apraxia to me and told me about the site. I immediately knew

after

reading the symptoms that Liam has apraxia.

Recently I was watching a video from this July and I heard myself say

Liam

said " I wet " for him to say that was a huge ordeal. That was after a

month

and a half I think. I was shocked watching the video. It just

refreshes

how far he has come. The first time he said Thank you I started

crying.

Liam had words and then would lose them. He use to say

duck,juice,baba,

elmo 1x and water 1x. These words came and went. He use to repeat

bop,bop,bop,bop or dat,dat, dat ,dat. It seems like he knew what he

was

saying but it would not come out right. At a year I would ask him

where is

the computer,clock and other numerous items and he would point right

at them

and ah. Ironically my Dr. told me he would probably talk early. He

also

new all of his shapes young but of course could not say them. There

was a

great difference between his receptive and expressive language. I

love to

hear his voice now.

When liam started the Efalex he was only saying mama , dada and bebe

(for

baby)of course dat, and bop,bop. He did also make some animal sounds.

Those

were approximations. I remember somewhere in the beginning of him

starting

efalex he said dragon when Dragon Tales came on. He started to blow

better

and stop drooling. Liam mouthed everything and drooled continually. I

had

a set of mouth toys for him just so he could get the stimulation he

needed

with appropriate toys.

/Now seven and a half months later I am amazed. I now have new wonders

about how far he will go. His articulation is a big concern and I

wonder

about this SLI. I still continue to see improvement though and am sooo

thankful for that. I still have days when I worry, worry worry about

his

future. I love to read about Khalid, s son and hope Liam future

can be

as bright as his. I believe Liam has " pure apraxia " as he is very

coordinated and shows no other problems. He is a wonderful easy going

little guy who rolls with the punches. I believe this will help him

get

where he wants to go in life. He never ceases to amaze me.

I have run on far too long. THanks for listening. If you have any

other

questions I can help you with please feel free to ask. The hardest

part

about starting the EFA's is having patience.

H

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~end of archive

=====

March 7, 2008

I agree, try taking it out for a few weeks and then adding it back and

see if you see a difference. There are lots of studies that go either

way with the

issues of calcium. Calcium has been now studied for it's ill effects on

the heart and teeth, you can google it if you want. But like and

Janice said,

take it out for a few weeks, and then add it back in. For us it was a

problem, and it was the root cause of my children's poor teeth and poor

growth.

There are lots of studies done on both sides of the debate but it all

boils down to researching it yourself and doing a trial if your research

gives you the

sense that you should and go from there.

Along this journey you will end up with two differnent views on

everything from therapies, to using fish oils, to eliminating milk, etc.

Just do your research

and go with your instinct.

kiddietalk wrote:

> For a child that has a speech impairment -and a drooling problem -

> last thing one would think anyone would do is eliminate milk which

> has no valid link to drooling - and put this speech impaired,

> drooling school aged child at risk to be short, overweight with poor

> bone health/prone to fractures. (see study below) I like the way

> Janice suggested it if one wanted to try it -3 weeks off- and try on

> and off and see if you see a difference. Of course if you see a

> negative reaction I too would go by my own child's reaction even with

> lack of any credible information out there to support what I was

> seeing...

>

> But again historically the great majority of us never stopped milk -

> nor did it come up much...and again most of the parents of these milk

> drinking children are off doing " normal " stuff with their kids today

> who are mainstreamed -not teased -doing well in school in most cases -

> and yes at one time diagnosed severe apraxic etc. (see post from

> below who's child stopped drooling she reports once on EFAs -

> but was still in therapy)

>

> It's OK to share all sides and if you have a good experience with

> stopping milk that's great to share -but keep in mind there are new

> parents here and stopping milk isn't the first step of what to do if

> you have a late talker or a child just diagnosed apraxic. If the

> basics don't work one may want to explore other things.

>

> Over the years most of us have tried many alternatives like listening

> therapy, cranial sacral therapy -but for the most part we keep it

> simple -therapy and EFAs and now vitamin E for most (and before that

> one person jumps in again to say that this is not simple -I didn't

> say easy -I mean it doesn't have to be complicated or expensive)

> It's like the sauna -I love saunas and if I had the money and room to

> put one in my house perhaps I would too. Who wouldn't want a sauna

> in their home?! Not sure if it would help therapy wise -but as the

> article Heavy Metal Sweat says -it feels good!

> http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000A6B6E-42B1-1334-82B183414B7F0000

>

> The one thing I don't get is the milk thing -we can count the people

> that post about it as it's pretty much always the same people. I

> know I posted it before and some of you can't give milk -but for

> those that are new and just want to try this -please don't try it

> first as you may never have to. You may never have to go to a Dan

> either -it's good to know about these things if the simple things

> that work for most don't work for your child. But they are more

> complex and expensive ways that most don't have to do.

>

> And while diets can be life saving when there are allergies -some of

> our beliefs -like a detox diet for example may be proved worthless.

> Just the other day Oprah had Dr. Oz on and he took a group of 8 woman

> who were out partying and eating like crap and while half went on a

> detox diet -the other half ate normal. Dr. Oz thought there would be

> a difference. Even Dr. Oz was shocked to learn that there is no such

> thing as detox diet -no change in the two groups at all. That one

> half had to drink " spinach, garlic, and onion " juice for nothing!!

> No change at all!!! Did anyone else see this but me? If not see the

> article link below. (I love Dr. Oz)

>

> If diet is needed by some fine -but again don't just assume

> that " your child is apraxic -stop milk " because it may be a way of

> making your poor child drink " spinach, garlic, and onion " juice. Or

> perhaps milk elimination is worse -because again of what it can

> cause. If you do eliminate it make sure it's with guidance from a

> reputable medical doctor.

>

> Children who avoid drinking cow milk have low dietary calcium intakes

> and poor bone health1,2,3

>

> Conclusions: In growing children, long-term avoidance of cow milk is

> associated with small stature and poor bone health. This is a major

> concern that warrants further study.

>

> The high proportion of overweight and obese children in the present

> study was an unexpected finding, particularly because many of the

> children had been breast-fed for prolonged periods (44). Because we

> did not measure energy balance in our study, we cannot say whether

> the high adiposity of these children was due to excessive energy

> intakes or to inadequate energy expenditure. It could be that the

> milk avoiders were drinking more high-energy substitute fluids, such

> as fruit juice or carbonated drinks. Short stature and obesity have

> been reported in children who consume excessive amount of fruit juice

> (45), although not always (46). Alternatively, the milk avoiders in

> the present study may have been less physically active than the

> control subjects. Low activity would have affected bone growth

> adversely because intermittent weight-bearing exercise is a

> critically important stimulus to osteogenesis in prepubertal children

> (47–50). Another possible mechanism contributing to the high

> adiposity we observed in the milk avoiders was that their high body

> weights were linked to their low calcium intakes. Recent studies

> suggest that low dietary calcium intakes can stimulate lipogenesis

> and inhibit lipolysis simultaneously, resulting in the accumulation

> of body fat (51–54).

>

> In summary, our study of young male and female prepubertal children

> with a long history of avoiding cow-milk consumption has identified

> major problems in bone health (eg, small bones, low aBMD and

> volumetric BMAD, and a high prevalence of bone fractures) that many

> health professionals and members of the general public appear to be

> unaware of. Short stature and high adiposity were other health

> concerns. Ideally, a full dietary assessment of children who avoid

> milk consumption seems warranted to help identify possible

> nutritional deficiencies or excesses. Future studies of bone health

> in larger populations of children who avoid the consumption of cow

> milk are desirable to confirm our findings and to determine whether

> the problems associated with this dietary pattern resolve as the

> children grow (4). In the interim it seems prudent to advise parents

> of all children who do not drink cow milk that they should seek

> professional nutritional advice to help optimize their children's

> bone health.

>

> Key Words: Dietary calcium • bone density • milk avoidance •

> children • obesity • fractures • cow milk allergy • New Zealand

> http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/76/3/675

>

> And for sure this is what happens if one doesn't do milk elimination

> under supervision.

>

> Multiple Bone Fractures in an 8-Year-Old Child with Cow's Milk

> Allergy and Inappropriate Calcium Supplementation

> Giovanna Montia, Valentina Libanorea, Letizia Marinaroa, o

> Lalab, o Minieroa, Francesco Savinoa

> aFood Allergy Service, Department of Pediatric and Adolescence

> Science, and

> bDivision of Pediatric Endocrinology, Regina Margherita Children's

> Hospital, Turin, Italy

> Abstract

>

> The case of an 8-year-old boy with severe bone mass reduction and 4

> fractures as a result of an unsupervised diet established to treat

> cow's milk allergy is presented. Endocrine, genetic and orthopedic

> pathologies were excluded. While vitamin D intake had always been

> appropriate, his calcium intake had been inadequate for many years.

> This clinical report suggests that both vitamin D and calcium

> supplementation are necessary when a cow's milk protein-free diet is

> prescribed, even when a hypo- or non-allergenic formula is provided.

>

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowPDF & ArtikelNr=10414\

2 & Ausgabe=233284 & ProduktNr=223977 & filename=104142.pdf

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~article

> Dr. Oz tells viewers if Detox Diets really Work on the 'Oprah' TV Show

>

> [best Syndication] A detox diet is a popular fad that is going around

> where a person drastically changes their diet by either fasting or

> eating raw vegetables and certain `health' foods to purge the body of

> harmful toxins.

>

> Dr. Oz is hosting a show called `The Truth about Food' which is on

> the Discovery Channel. This show shows a number of studies that they

> conducted to see if food can be beneficial to your health.

>

> To find out if a detox diet can be helpful they recruited 10 women

> that admitted to have liked to party a little too much. They divided

> the women into two groups, one that was put on a detox diet, and

> another that ate a normal diet.

>

> The detox diet group had to eat an awful combination of foods. For

> breakfast they were to drink a fresh vegetable juice that contained

> spinach, garlic, and onions. They also had Beet root shakes and

> seaweed salads. It was not a pleasant diet the detox diet.

>

> The research included collecting both groups urine samples during the

> duration of the study. The finding showed that the liver was still

> doing the same things.

>

> Dr. Oz said that the detox diet had no impact at all as far as

> removing toxins from the body. Toxins go to the liver and the brain

> and if they were to be removed would take a very long time to do so.

> He said that detox diets can jumpstart you into healthier eating

> habits. By shocking your system, you could start a long term change

> for the long haul by reducing sugar and salt cravings.

>

> By

> Best Syndication News Writer

>

http://www.bestsyndication.com/?q=091807_dr_oz_tells_if_rapid_detox_programs_wor\

k_on_oprah.htm

>

> >From a mom who's child used to drool prior to EFAs. used to

> run Cherab of Ohio support -but like many " old timers " who have

> children doing well today -she has not posted recently.

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~archive from 2002

>

> Wed Jan 9, 2002 5:17 pm

> " Larry " <hugheslke@...

>

> I would be glad to share with you how my son was before the Efalex. I

> love

> to talk about it to anyone who listens without doubt about the

> strides he

> has made on EFA's!

>

> I started Liam on Efalex in June (2y and 4months) when someone

> mentioned the

> word apraxia to me and told me about the site. I immediately knew

> after

> reading the symptoms that Liam has apraxia.

>

> Recently I was watching a video from this July and I heard myself say

> Liam

> said " I wet " for him to say that was a huge ordeal. That was after a

> month

> and a half I think. I was shocked watching the video. It just

> refreshes

> how far he has come. The first time he said Thank you I started

> crying.

>

> Liam had words and then would lose them. He use to say

> duck,juice,baba,

> elmo 1x and water 1x. These words came and went. He use to repeat

> bop,bop,bop,bop or dat,dat, dat ,dat. It seems like he knew what he

> was

> saying but it would not come out right. At a year I would ask him

> where is

> the computer,clock and other numerous items and he would point right

> at them

> and ah. Ironically my Dr. told me he would probably talk early. He

> also

> new all of his shapes young but of course could not say them. There

> was a

> great difference between his receptive and expressive language. I

> love to

> hear his voice now.

>

> When liam started the Efalex he was only saying mama , dada and bebe

> (for

> baby)of course dat, and bop,bop. He did also make some animal sounds.

> Those

> were approximations. I remember somewhere in the beginning of him

> starting

> efalex he said dragon when Dragon Tales came on. He started to blow

> better

> and stop drooling. Liam mouthed everything and drooled continually. I

> had

> a set of mouth toys for him just so he could get the stimulation he

> needed

> with appropriate toys.

>

> /Now seven and a half months later I am amazed. I now have new wonders

> about how far he will go. His articulation is a big concern and I

> wonder

> about this SLI. I still continue to see improvement though and am sooo

> thankful for that. I still have days when I worry, worry worry about

> his

> future. I love to read about Khalid, s son and hope Liam future

> can be

> as bright as his. I believe Liam has " pure apraxia " as he is very

> coordinated and shows no other problems. He is a wonderful easy going

> little guy who rolls with the punches. I believe this will help him

> get

> where he wants to go in life. He never ceases to amaze me.

>

> I have run on far too long. THanks for listening. If you have any

> other

> questions I can help you with please feel free to ask. The hardest

> part

> about starting the EFA's is having patience.

>

> H

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~end of archive

>

> =====

>

March 7, 2008

I doubt this will ever be studied well since getting direct vitamin

intake labs is a mountain climb. As for this statement:

For a child that has a speech impairment -and a drooling problem -

last thing one would think anyone would do is eliminate milk which

has no valid link to drooling - and put this speech impaired,

drooling school aged child at risk to be short, overweight with poor

bone health/prone to fractures.

I did not see in the mentioned study where an elimination trial was

shown to cause all of that. If worried about all that even during a

short elimination trial hemp milk can address a lot of this.

> Children who avoid drinking cow milk have low dietary calcium

intakes