RE: Starting kindergarten on time vs. One more year of preschool

January 23, 2009

My question is - what is your experience holding a child back

> out of kindergarten for one more year in a " transitional kindergarten "

> program.

YES -when in doubt give that child one more year of a multisensory

enriched preschool/therapy prior to kindergarten!!! And for your

other question -don't assume that apraxia means a learning disability

-that's sadly probably how many of the school professionals will view

your son and you'll have to fight that ignorance. In this group most

of the " old timers " aren't even here posting often because their

children are in mainstream and off doing " normal " stuff. Some of you

that are on my personal FB page can chat with many of them -and there

are a few wonderful parents who have apraxic tweens and teens and

adults that grew up with apraxia and are doing or did very well in

school- or now college who do continue to post here. Apraxia is not

something you outgrow or are cured of -but you overcome it. Yes there

are some in this group that aren't good students -but that will happen

in a group of children with or without apraxia. Apraxia in itself is

not a cognitive nor receptive disability -it's a motor planning one.

Here's more on this from a very very very very very very long archive

(well not that long -I have more info if needed):

Re: classroom placement? - How it benefits the other children

Hi Tonya!

Glad to still see you here and learning more about apraxia (in spite

none of your state test including information about it!) Wish all

were like you! In regards to classroom placement I'm curious if the

research of Dr. Rosenthal is shared in consideration. If not

in my opinion it should be. It appears from research (and various

movies based on his principles like Stand and Deliver or even the

newer Freedom Writers for those not up on research) that his theory

of self fulfilling prophesy ring true.

Do we know what percentage of those that start in self contained

basically all stay there? What percentage (like my son Tanner) who

start in the mainstream in spite of inappropriate " testing " that

says " he'll never make it in the mainstream " not only stay mainstream-

but as A and B students? Where would my son Tanner be if they put

him in a self contained class? No doubt in my mind that if I was

less knowledgeable I'd have the same attitude as those parents who

say to me " Oh but your son is different -my son is so behind he can't

be in the mainstream " Tanner rose above everyone's expectations -

including my own. I hid the public school testing and put him into

an accelerated academics school because...well I live in Florida now

and not a huge choice. I didn't know if he'd make it there either -

but he not only made it -but made it with As and Bs. I would have

been happy with Cs! (since it was accelerated academics)

Students rise to the level of expectations -and needless to say -not

as much is typically expected of those shoved into the self contained

classrooms. I have so much to say about this subject -but in a

nutshell I know from first hand experience that many of the

communication impaired children today are dealing with the same

discrimination the hearing impaired and deaf community dealt with 50

years ago. My son Tanner's story

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html

As a wise woman once said:

" I believe what Mrs. Geng is trying to say is give the child the

benefit of the doubt. There is no reason we see why he couldn't make

it in the mainstream, so start him there, and if he " can't make it "

then pull him out and put him in the self contained kindergarten

class. "

~ Kanter -director of the Summit Speech School who sadly died

of cancer

if you would like to speak to me about the conversations I had

with Dr. Rosenthal -please call me at 772 335-5135. I'd love for

this research to be done!

And since I haven't been around to post archives in a bit -here's one

some of you may not have seen yet:

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:36 pm

Subject: Re: question about kindergarten kiddietalk

Dear Archana,

Below are some archives that will help answer your question. In a

nutshell your child is entitled to continue preschool until 6 if the

IEP team deems that to be appropriate. Appropriate as you can

imagine is far too tangible a word in something as important as

decisions for what is or is not " most appropriate " for your child's

education. They may say throwing an essentially nonverbal 5 year

old child who still needs tons of therapies into kindergarten as

" most appropriate "

Fortunately, you and your husband are part of that IEP team to make

that decision and you can share outside information to support your

stand...such as private evals and opinions,

and all of the following which has helped others. I'd

also suggest showing up with a copy of The Late Talker. All the

stories from The Late Talker are from this group and printed with

permission from the families. Oh, and let them know we are working

on the next book and that we may be interviewing you!

If your public school can no longer provide appropriate preschool

placement until your child is 6, they will need to provide out of

district preschool placement. You would be amazed what they find

they can do when they are confronted with that option.

Share the study posted below about the reasons to delay kindergarten

vs. retaining. If you need help you can call me at 973 390 7541.

(Jersey line to still reach me at even though we are now in

Florida!) Hope the following helps!

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:56 am

Subject: Re: Waiting on Kindergarten/long (even for me!) answer

Hi !

Tanner was in out of district placement at the Summit Speech School

for the hearing impaired/deaf which was a preschool placement that

went up to six years old http://www.oraldeafed.org/schools/summit/

I'm not sure what happens with in district placement from State to

State -or country to country. I can however share my experience

with this:

Tanner at five was still not able to hold a pencil correctly nor was

he good at imitating circles etc. He would work hard -he's always

been a child that wants to do what others tell him to do. Due to

motor planning and weakness problems however -he still needed OT.

His speech was much improved by five -but he spoke like a baby. Put

it this way -Becca -the child who just turned three speaks far more

and far more articulate than Tanner was at five. Tanner was

developmentally slow on speech and language development. Another

theory of mine is that our children do NOT have the diagnosis of

speech language impairment -but they appear to have that when they

developmentally go through that stage. (this is the stage where

they are doing sentences -but mix up syntax -etc.) Just like the

stuttering stage can last longer and happen much later -with apraxic

children not enough studies have gone into what is " normal " for

them. So again -don't want them to be inappropriately labeled. At

five Tanner was still in intensive therapy -and needed that extra

year of intensive therapy for speech and occupational therapy. He

was only in a half a day program -and by the time he came home on

the 15 minute bus ride -he would fall asleep on the bus. I'd have

to wake him up and then he would come in and nap more. Tanner

needed much more sleep than other five year olds.

When it was time for IEP -I was told not to have him evaluated -

there was a chance that he was doing well enough that he wouldn't

qualify for continued out of district placement until six. What

happened then was that both my town school and Summit Speech School

professionals both agreed that it was most appropriate to keep

Tanner in preschool until six. Here is my favorite part of the

story from the archives : " Funny story is that

Tanner's case manager at Tanner's five year old IEP meeting said " In

our town we like to start five year olds in Kindergarten " I

actually laughed when she said that (couldn't help it) and said " Our

town? I live in this town and was a Kindergarten classroom mom for

Dakota who I started at five year olds and he and Molly ___ were

just about the only two five year olds in the entire Kindergarten

class -so suggesting to start special needs speech impaired apraxic

children at five when all the quote unquote normal kids don't start

till six is not the best idea to say the least! "

Needless to say -our town paid for Tanner to continue in his " out of

district " placement at the Summit Speech School in New Providence NJ

till six. We withheld testing which I was advised we could do -

since he would have " tested out of the program " So in fact your

town could pay for in district or out of district preschool

placement from five to six years old if you and the child study team

agree that will be best to wait till six. Keep in mind that apraxic

children take a bit longer at times to do what comes naturally to

other children -and in time they can perhaps blend in with others

with no damage to self esteem from teasing etc. I heard that in NJ

a child doesn't legally have to begin Kindergarten till seven -not

sure but anyone could check that out for their state/area. So don't

rule out paid preschool after five years old as an option...if that

is what is appropriate for your child. "

Bottom line is both the school system and you are looking for the

best way to get your child succeeding in the mainstream with as few

services as possible and as quickly as possible.

Here are some archives to answer more. Since there are a number -

and this is just the most recent -it's long and some may be

repeating but I don't have time to clean up. So if this isn't a

concern -just delete! )

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Check with other parents in your town if this is your first child to

find out what age most other parents in your town start their

children in Kindergarten. I started my son Dakota at five years old

for Kindergarten in the Warren/Berkeley Heights/Basking Ridge area

of NJ where we used to live -and he was one of the two five year

olds in the class. Most parents in our upper middle class town

didn't start their children until six for competitive sports and

academics reasons -so starting my " suspected ADHD late talker " five

year old Dakota in Kindergarten we saw as a mistake -and one we

could never fix.

Dakota was too bright to be left back once he started -socially he

was not as mature as his classmates however -but he became friends

with his class mates regardless -so repeating is something Dakota

didn't want.

What I didn't at all like was that each day the teachers had to keep

yelling over and over " Dakota... " fill in the blank - " do this or

don't do that or sit down or be quiet or pay attention " etc.

So not starting Tanner in Kindergarten at five was not even a

thought when we lived in NJ. Why put a double whammy on the kid and

start him at five when most of his classmates will be six -and in

some cases -already reading and writing!! Funny story is that