Re: Palin's choice puts her under 20%

[Guest guest]

I listened to her acceptance speech today and was impressed. But, I

think she referred to herself as a " hockey mom " not soccer mom.

(Something this hockey fan thought was refreshing.)

" Many people will

> express sympathy, but you don't want or need that, because Trig

will

> be a joy…Children are the most precious and promising ingredient in

> this mixed-up world…Trig is no different, except he has one extra

> chromosome. "

>

> And here's what others have to say about her

>

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Deb!

Hockey mom -that makes sense -after all she's in Alaska! I am

impressed by her too (and by Obama as well) -but I'm ashamed by the

news coverage of the reason she's keeping her baby and making it seem

like there is no other reason other than that's she's clearly pro

life. As if why else would anyone want a Down Syndrome baby -shame

on them!

Look how many would love to adopt a Down Syndrome baby

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/feb/12/20060212-112732-6787r/

Back before our kids were born Glenn and I talked about it and we

both decided that no matter what we would have our baby -but that was

our " choice " and it was not because I'm pro life because I happen to

be pro choice for others- pro life for me. Pro choice means you

allow others to make their own decision -and that means choosing

to 'not' abort too.

What about the many that give birth to special needs babies and stick

them in institutions for life?! Did anyone see that horrible

documentary last night on NBC?! (and not horrible for exposing it -

again-but horrible that anyone anywhere can let people live their

lives this way in a crib from infants to adults) The infants stop

growing when they are not being picked up and loved -and not being

moved most have bodies the size of young children as adults. They

are in cages (cribs) -for life. If they try to move around they are

tied to the crib -hands and feet. And without therapy their bodies

are in the one shape like a stiff pretzel unable to move. Did anyone

see this? It was a " pro life " nightmare and yes I know this is not

what prolife means! But what happens to babies that nobody wants in

some areas of the world will turn your stomach and make you ashamed

to be of the same species that lets this happen to humans...and the

human rights are not just missing in life -but in death too. The

infants, children, teens, adults, and seniors are just buried in the

dirt outside the institution like goldfish. Nobody wants them

either. There was a handful of women that pretend to be the mother's

of some of the children that come to visit once in a blue moon -and

that's the only light in these human's lives -ever.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21790870/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26227040/

and here's another one

http://warehousesofneglect.civiblog.org/blog/_archives/2007/9/12/3224933.html

Why does everything have to be about division and politics -why can't

one choose to have a special needs baby? I had two children that

were special needs and yes it's hard at times but so is childbirth -

does that mean nobody should do it? And as hard as it is -just like

moms who say it about childbirth -most go back and would do it

again. I wouldn't trade my special needs boys for " normal " children

even if I could go back. I feel like we knew how to help them and

love them no matter what. There were a few years that Dakota who was

a traumatic delivery that caused severe head, face and neck injuries -

was at risk for sudden death from SIDS (he had breathing and eating

problems from his torn neck muscles) and permanent mental retardation

and a life in a wheel chair. There is no doubt without our work and

all the therapy and doctors...and LOVE -he would probably have died

because many times he stopped breathing but because I didn't leave

him alone for one second (and he was monitored even while sleeping)

we were able to save him. He for sure would not be the gifted,

funny, popular,coordinated, athletic, creative honor student teen he

is today. How dare anyone think their child is better just because

they are " normal " So was Hitler! And today Dakota's ADHD is not an

issue since fish oils. Tanner's special needs were nothing in

comparison to Dakotas. He only had apraxia, sensory issues and some

mild low tone we needed to help him overcome -the worst was how

clueless most professionals were...oh yeah -about his " dyspraxia "

Growing up my mom was friends with a family where one of the children

had Down Syndrome. The other sister was one of the prettiest girls

in the school and the whole family was super nice. But for the life

of me I can't remember how any of them looked except for the sister

with Down Syndrome. She was like an angel to me- always smiling and

accepting of everyone. The whole family was so close and everyone

loved each other so much. It was due to knowing her as a child that

when I got a bit older I " chose " to adopt a special needs kitten. I

wrote about here (from the archives) and below is the story.

And probably why God chose me to give me the gift of 2 special

needs children! Thank you God!!

" never stopped talking

When I was a teenager and still living home with my parents -I dated

this guy Bruce that owned a pet store. One day when I visited Bruce

in the shop I noticed a little Siamese kitten that was in a cage

without all the other Siamese kittens. The other Siamese kittens

were all much larger than this one little kitten who couldn't stand

up and just kept crying and crying -and trying to stand and kept

falling over and over -all alone.

I asked Bruce about this little Siamese kitten and he told me he was

sending the kitten " back " because there was something wrong with it,

so it couldn't be sold.

After a big fuss (Bruce strongly did not want to give me this

kitten) He finally agreed to let me adopt this little teeny tiny

Siamese kitten that I named " "

I brought right away to a vet that our family used for our

other pets in Westfield, NJ -and I recall they were shocked to see

such a kitten with such severe defects. I don't remember 's

diagnosis -it was a long name and I'd have to look it up -but she

had severe neurological problems which affected her balance, sight,

and movement and there was suspicion that the mother may have had

distemper. The vet told me that a kitten like is rare to

begin with -and even more so since the mother cats typically will

reject a baby that usually is found to have serious defects. They

even asked if they could study to track her progress.

was not expected to live a long life. could see -

but I was told she saw things in doubles and triples and wouldn't

know where things were in space.

at first couldn't eat because she couldn't sense where the

bowl was even if we held her body and put her face by the dish.

When she tried to eat she looked like a woodpecker with her head -

and as she got close to the bowl she would be so excited to reach

the food that she would squirm out of our hands and fall into the

dish- knocking her food or milk all over. She couldn't stand even

at first -so walking was for awhile out of the question -but she

never stopped trying -and we kept feeding so she kept

getting stronger (she only liked the really expensive cat gourmet

cat foods in little cans)

proved everyone wrong - she learned to eat on her own like a

woodpecker - walk on her own like a drunken sailor -and even run at

times -like a snake (the back of her body which was weak would sway

from side to side) Of course since couldn't see where walls

were in reality she lost some of her front teeth when she was

playing. couldn't jump -the back of her body was kind of

limp -so she instead learned how to climb up onto things with her

front legs. As strong as 's front legs were -she didn't use

them to scratch others.

Unlike most cats - would come to you when you called her -she

would answer the door bell with her friends (our dogs) Actually

acted more like a dog than a cat. When she was happy -which

seemed like always -she would purr really loud and lick your face

with her stinky rough tongue.

People who hated cats actually changed their mind when they met

-she could win over anyone.

wasn't my child -she was my pet. I didn't take her because

I felt sorry for her -or because I wanted to punish myself -or

because I thought I was so tolerant or special I could help her when

nobody else could. I took out of that pet store because I

saw a kitten that wanted and deserved a chance just like the others -

and that's what I gave her.

lived into her teens -and as most Siamese cats -she never

stopped " talking " to us up to the end. Having as a pet was

one of the blessings of my life. She taught me and many others much

more than what we taught her.

Ironically while never stopped " talking " , years later I

became a mom to two children who were " late talkers " The lessons

taught me helped me to help my boys to overcome, and to help

others like them through the CHERAB Foundation which I founded.

Who but God is to say what type of life is right and what type of

life is wrong? -as if there is such an answer! "

=====

[Guest guest]

Janice, I completely agree with you. I had the same thoughts after hearing

that Palin's baby has down syndrome. Once I realized that my daughter was

having delays, I stopped working. As an attorney, working with my husband in

our

own practice, I had a home office so I could still run around for my sons. But

even with a home office, I realized quickly that I had to be with my

daughter all the time. I completely understand and appreciate the fact that

many

parents cannot afford not to work, and for them, there isn't any choice.

When I was in my late twenties I was involved in politics, and served as the

first female municipal attorney in NJ. Clearly, the role of a governor and a

Vice-President is more time consuming than that of a municipal attorney. I do

NOT believe that Palin has her baby with her all the time. Meetings alone,

including public meetings can go on into the late night and early morning

hours.

So, MY personal opinion is that having a child who will undoubtedly face

disabilities and challenges and still serve as governor and participate in a

Presidential campaign, then possibly as Vice-President, is something I

personally would not do. I am not making a judgment against her, as you did not.

Everyone does things differently. I have always been a hands on mom in every

aspect. Palin clearly made her choice; it is just different than mine would

have been. Carolyn

**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel

deal here.

(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)

[Guest guest]

Janice,

You took the words right out of my mouth.  My friend says, " Well she'll have her

husband or other family members to take care of her child. "   I just shake my

head because it's hard to stomach.  To have an NT child and work is different

than having a child with Special Needs, that young.

I don't know how to say it correctly without coming off looking as if Moms

belong at home birthing, cooking and cleaning but when you have a Special Needs

child, your priorities Have to change.

From: Janice <jscott@...>

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Palin's choice puts her under 20%

Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 6:54 PM

Hi,

I am not American and so have no affiliations but I do wonder about Sondra

Palin's decision to take on such a challenge with firstly.... such a young baby

to care for and secondly.... . a young baby who is clearly going to need all of

the help and extra assistance a family can muster.

The decision to have a child necessitates the decision to give that child every

opportunity to thrive and to prosper at your disposal.

Mat. leave is there for a purpose.... so that mother and baby can bond during

the first year of life. I believe that this is a very important time between

mother and child so I was flabergasted to learn that Sondra Palin was accepting

the call to service with a little tyke to care for and to nurture.

I just cannot help but feel sorry for the child in this case. I wonder if she

is a bit naive as to the 'true' needs of a special needs child or if perhaps,

she is such a dynamo that she has it covered. ly, I don't know how this

could be possible but perhaps it can....

I know that when I was working with Mark needing so much extra..... I always

felt torn between his needs getting fulfilled and our financial needs as a

family and my personal career which was at an all time high. It is a difficult

balance. When a child has special needs, all of the nurtering and early

intervention goes a long, long way to making the difference between severely

handicapped and high-functioning individual. I still feel guilty for working

through Mark's first 4 years of life. I still feel that had I stayed home, I

could have helped him so much more. In addition, it is very tough to stay

focused in a high level position when your child is not thriving as he could be.

I make no judgements on her character or her person since I have not followed

her career but it does seem like she is a wonderful and dynamic politician.

However, I cannot help but feel this twinge of sorrow for her child who needs

her so much and shall have to make do with nannies and such because of this

decision to serve. It is a difficult road that she has chosen.

I only hope that she does not look back at some later date and regret her

decision.

What do all of you think instinctively? Can you have a high powered career such

as being the VP of the US and still adequately provide the 'extra's' required

for a special needs child?

I only know that I finally gave up my career to stay home...... I just couldn't

do it and give my son the focus he needed to thrive and overcome his many

challenges. I know that some women do manage to balance this successfully but

my job was all consuming... ..

Janice

[Guest guest]

I agree with you Janice in that I spent every single minute with

Dakota for years and years to help him -and for Tanner too we had to

drive to see doctors and therapists etc. so don't know either how you

can do that and be VP either -nobody does because nobody ever did it

before. But guess as they say " where there is a will there will be a

way " ... it appears she plans on taking her baby with her everywhere

and forget about nanny - I'm sure the top therapists, doctors,

teachers and what ever other help needed will be at 'her' beck and

call 24/7 365 days of the year. Only a VP will have that power- if

only for the rest of us!

Also remember 80% of people wouldn't choose to have a baby with Down

Syndrome -so your opinion is well within the norm. I'm the strange

one here -I'm proud of her decision because I think it's gross

frankly that if people could know before hand that their child was

going to have any type of " defect " parents can just choose to abort

them. What about our kids with dyspraxia or autism? What about if

your child will need glasses or braces? What if your child's eyes

are going to be brown and only green will do because it matches your

car? Gross. To me -that's my opinion that we decide which life is

worth living.

And since we talked about teen and adult dyspraxics and autistics -

here's an " normal teen " story written by a teen with Down Syndrome

and you have to check out the amazing song she wrote (it's the You

Tube link)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~article written by a Down Syndrome teenager who has since passed

away far too young

(and PS -her dad is the CEO and and Noble)

I have Down Syndrome but I'm a normal teenager

By Riggio

When I first started to work on this story, I thought maybe I

shouldn't do it. I thought you might see that I have Down syndrome,

and that you wouldn't like me.

My mom thinks that's silly. " Have you ever met anyone who didn't like

you because you have Down syndrome? " she asks me. She's right, of

course. (She usually is!)

When people ask me what Down syndrome is, I tell them it's an extra

chromosome. A doctor would tell you the extra chromosome causes an

intellectual disability that makes it harder for me to learn things.

(For instance, some of my classes are in a " resource room, " where

kids with many kinds of learning disabilities are taught at a

different pace.)

When my mom first told me I had Down syndrome, I worried that people

might think I wasn't as smart as they were, or that I talked or

looked different.

I just want to be like everyone else, so sometimes I wish I could

give back the extra chromosome. But having Down syndrome is what

makes me " me. " And I'm proud of who I am. I'm a hard worker, a good

person, and I care about my friends.

A Lot Like You

Even though I have Down syndrome, my life is a lot like yours. I read

books and watch TV. I listen to music with my friends. I'm on the

swim team and in chorus at school. I think about the future, like who

I'll marry. And I get along with my sisters—except when they take my

CDs without asking!

Some of my classes are with typical kids, and some are with kids with

learning disabilities. I have an aide who goes with me to my harder

classes, like math and biology. She helps me take notes and gives me

tips on how I should study for tests. It really helps, but I also

challenge myself to do well. For instance, my goal was to be in a

typical English class by 12th grade. That's exactly what happened

this year!

But sometimes it's hard being with typical kids. For instance, I

don't drive, but a lot of kids in my school do. I don't know if I'll

ever be able to, and that's hard to accept.

Dream Job: Singer

I try not to let things like that upset me and just think of all the

good things in my life. Like that I've published two songs. One of my

favorite things to do is write poetry, And this singer my dad knows

recorded some of my poems as singles.

Right now someone else is singing my songs, but someday, I want to be

the one singing. I know it's going to happen, because I've seen it.

One day I looked in the mirror, and I saw someone in my head, a

famous person or someone who was somebody, and I just knew: I will be

a singer.

It's true that I don't learn some things as fast as other people. But

that won't stop me from trying. I just know that if I work really

hard and be myself, I can do almost anything.

See Me

But I still have to remind myself all the time that it really is OK

to just be myself. Sometimes all I see—all I think other people see—

is the outside of me, not the inside. And I really want people to go

in there and see what I'm all about.

Maybe that's why I write poetry—so people can find out who I really

am. My poems are all about my feelings: when I hope, when I hurt. I'm

not sure where the ideas come from—I just look them up in my head.

It's like I have this gut feeling that comes out of me and onto the

paper.

I can't change that I have Down syndrome, but one thing I would

change is how people think of me. I'd tell them: Judge me as a whole

person, not just the person you see. Treat me with respect, and

accept me for who I am. Most important, just be my friend.

After all, I would do the same for you.

Listen to " The Ring " , the song that wrote!

What is Down Syndrome?

Down syndrome is an intellectual disability that about 5,000 babies

in the United States are born with each year. A person with Down

syndrome has 47 chromosomes, microscopic structures that carry

genetic information to determine almost everything about a person.

Most people have only 46 chromosomes. It's the extra chromosome that

can cause certain physical characteristics (such as short stature and

an upward slant to the eyes) and speech and developmental delays.

Still, people with Down syndrome are a lot like you: They are unique

people with strengths and talents.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/ngkids/0612/index.html

also posted here

http://ckihuc.blogspot.com/2008/05/melissa-riggio.html

Tragically won't be around anymore to share how beautiful it is to be

who she is.

~article

" She was a songwriter

She was a poet

She was a homecoming queen

She traveled the world with her family

She aspired to be a singer

She was a high school graduate

She was a sister

She was a daughter

She worked at the YMCA

She talked of going to college

She was changing the data

She was a dreamer

She was an inspiration

She had Down syndrome

She proved the stereotypes were wrong

She was twenty

She was battling leukemia

She lost.

She will be deeply missed.

Weeks after was born, and Noble stores across the country were

hosting storytimes to promote Down syndrome Awareness. I couldn't believe it.

Had I ever heard of an event to promote Down syndrome awareness before? Was such

an event ever promoted to the general public in such a popular place as

and Noble?

That is when I learned of Riggio and her father Steve, who just happens

to be CEO of, yes, and Noble. There they were in the headlines. It was

just the type of story I needed to hear....a story about a teenager with Down

syndrome who was living a full and happy life and of her parents who were doing

all they could to advocate for her and others like her. I felt less alone.

Just a couple of months ago, my nine year old niece proudly came to me with her

National Geographic Kids magazine in her hands and showed me an article about a

girl with Down syndrome. There was again. She was excited to tell me

about all the cool things kids with Down syndrome could do.

Now is gone. I didn't know she was battling leukemia. Given all of the

reading I do about Down syndrome online, I don't know how this fact escaped me.

When I went to our local Down syndrome website this afternoon to post a notice

about a Mommy and Me Music class, and saw the news about , I was caught

off guard. A sense of loss immediately hit me.

I worry so much about who will take care of when he is fifty, and we are

most probably gone. When I learned of 's death, one of the first things

that hit me was, " that could be " . Then again it could be any of us. Another

reminder not to take life for granted and to make the most of every day.

My deepest sympathies go out to 's family. "

http://momseatofpants.blogspot.com/2008/04/melissa-riggio.html

Her poem The Ring

THE RING

I'm in the Ring outside

I'm following my belief

I'm looking at the sky

I saw God following my heart

I'm an ordinary woman

The Ring is falling down my way

The wind is blowing me away

The Ring is falling down, down my way

The wind is blowing me away

And so I came back to

The center of the Ring

Am I just a broken angel?

God has sent me here to heal

To be an ordinary woman

Poem by Riggio

Set to music and recorded by Fuller

http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2007-02-19-melissa-riggio_x.htm

=====

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I am not American and so have no affiliations but I do wonder about Sondra

Palin's decision to take on such a challenge with firstly.... such a young baby

to care for and secondly..... a young baby who is clearly going to need all of

the help and extra assistance a family can muster.

The decision to have a child necessitates the decision to give that child every

opportunity to thrive and to prosper at your disposal.

Mat. leave is there for a purpose.... so that mother and baby can bond during

the first year of life. I believe that this is a very important time between

mother and child so I was flabergasted to learn that Sondra Palin was accepting

the call to service with a little tyke to care for and to nurture.

I just cannot help but feel sorry for the child in this case. I wonder if she

is a bit naive as to the 'true' needs of a special needs child or if perhaps,

she is such a dynamo that she has it covered. ly, I don't know how this

could be possible but perhaps it can....

I know that when I was working with Mark needing so much extra..... I always

felt torn between his needs getting fulfilled and our financial needs as a

family and my personal career which was at an all time high. It is a difficult

balance. When a child has special needs, all of the nurtering and early

intervention goes a long, long way to making the difference between severely

handicapped and high-functioning individual. I still feel guilty for working

through Mark's first 4 years of life. I still feel that had I stayed home, I

could have helped him so much more. In addition, it is very tough to stay

focused in a high level position when your child is not thriving as he could be.

I make no judgements on her character or her person since I have not followed

her career but it does seem like she is a wonderful and dynamic politician.

However, I cannot help but feel this twinge of sorrow for her child who needs

her so much and shall have to make do with nannies and such because of this

decision to serve. It is a difficult road that she has chosen.

I only hope that she does not look back at some later date and regret her

decision.

What do all of you think instinctively? Can you have a high powered career such

as being the VP of the US and still adequately provide the 'extra's' required

for a special needs child?

I only know that I finally gave up my career to stay home...... I just couldn't

do it and give my son the focus he needed to thrive and overcome his many

challenges. I know that some women do manage to balance this successfully but

my job was all consuming.....

Janice

[Guest guest]

Here's 's website which I also meant to post

http://www.riggio.net/

" It is with deep sadness that we tell you of the loss of 20-year old

Ann Riggio. She passed away peacefully on, Monday, April 7,

at 6:00 a.m. at University Hospital of Columbia and Cornell in

Manhattan. She was surrounded by her parents, sisters, aunts and

uncles, and cousins.

As so many of you know, was diagnosed with leukemia last

summer and since that time she fought long and hard to overcome the

disease. Last June, she graduated from Bernards High School in

Bernardsville, New Jersey, where she was crowned Prom Queen.

was so grateful to the many people who reached out to offer their

support by donating blood, platelets, and sending cards and letters.

Through it all, remained strong and optimistic. She was an

inspiration to everyone who had the opportunity to know her.

Although was born with Down Syndrome, she lived a full and

extraordinary life. worked at the YMCA in Basking Ridge and

recently talked about entering a post secondary program so that she

could become a counselor at the YMCA. She loved to read and listen to

music, and she loved to write. was a poet and songwriter.

was taking voice, drama, and dance lessons as she also

aspired to become a singer one day. Some of 's songs were

recorded by acclaimed singer/songwriter, Fuller. "

http://www.riggio.net/weblog/index.html

=====

[Guest guest]

, you are making an assumption that the husband is caring for the baby.

I don't know that is the case, but I'll be happy to research it and see if

there is any information out there stating that. For ME, this isn't about leave

it to the beavers at all! This is about 2008 and a child that is going to

face disabilities. I am NOT talking about a situation where there is a

typically

developing child. As I stated already, I still worked with my two other

typically developing children. NOT a problem. But personally, for ME, I believe

that if a child is facing disabilities/special needs, a mother's care is the

best; and if a mother can swing not working financially, that would be ideal.

Having been involved in politics and given up that work for a special needs

child, my opinion is that Palin put her political ambitions first. But again,

that's my personal opinion based upon my own experience and what I gave up to

care for MY child. Carolyn

**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel

deal here.

(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)

[Guest guest]

>

> Not about right to life -but it's amazing over 80% of people faced

> with knowing their baby would be born with Down Syndrome would

> abort.

>

I assume prenatal diagnoses to mean a diagnosis from amniocentesis.

Since most pro-life parents I know do not have an amnio, this figure is

very misleading. It's already eliminated most of the population who

would keep a baby with Down Syndrome. I view it more like 20% of the

pro-choice parents, when faced with a Down Syndrome diagnosis, choose

to have the baby.

[Guest guest]

I think that the child will suffer no differently than with her old

career. Public service rips parents away from kids more than any

other career and while gov of Alaska is different from VP, she left

the kid to return to that job after 3 days. I do think she is a

dynamo but also that whatever what was in place for her kids as gov

will probably be the same at this post should she get it. I frankly

hope she foes. If it helps bring awareness to our kids then I am all

for it. I do share your beliefs as to what the first year of life is

for, etc. but the truth is I really do not spend a lot of time

looking at what other people do with their kids for I do not want to

hear their opinions on what I do with mine. That may come from

foregoing the integrated preK which now seems a great choice even to

doubters of my decision as it is no longer integrated because this

year's 3 year olds seem to have such difficult issues (breaks my

heart). It may come from deciding to homeschool, which when you tell

people they look at you like you are an axe murder. It may come from

telling them you are doing NACD, at which they then look at you as

though you joined a cult.

>

> Hi,

>

> I am not American and so have no affiliations but I do wonder about

Sondra Palin's decision to take on such a challenge with firstly....

such a young baby to care for and secondly..... a young baby who is

clearly going to need all of the help and extra assistance a family

can muster.

>

> The decision to have a child necessitates the decision to give that

child every opportunity to thrive and to prosper at your disposal.

>

> Mat. leave is there for a purpose.... so that mother and baby can

bond during the first year of life. I believe that this is a very

important time between mother and child so I was flabergasted to

learn that Sondra Palin was accepting the call to service with a

little tyke to care for and to nurture.

>

> I just cannot help but feel sorry for the child in this case. I

wonder if she is a bit naive as to the 'true' needs of a special

needs child or if perhaps, she is such a dynamo that she has it

covered. ly, I don't know how this could be possible but

perhaps it can....

>

> I know that when I was working with Mark needing so much extra.....

I always felt torn between his needs getting fulfilled and our

financial needs as a family and my personal career which was at an

all time high. It is a difficult balance. When a child has special

needs, all of the nurtering and early intervention goes a long, long

way to making the difference between severely handicapped and high-

functioning individual. I still feel guilty for working through

Mark's first 4 years of life. I still feel that had I stayed home, I

could have helped him so much more. In addition, it is very tough to

stay focused in a high level position when your child is not thriving

as he could be.

>

> I make no judgements on her character or her person since I have

not followed her career but it does seem like she is a wonderful and

dynamic politician. However, I cannot help but feel this twinge of

sorrow for her child who needs her so much and shall have to make do

with nannies and such because of this decision to serve. It is a

difficult road that she has chosen.

>

> I only hope that she does not look back at some later date and

regret her decision.

>

> What do all of you think instinctively? Can you have a high

powered career such as being the VP of the US and still adequately

provide the 'extra's' required for a special needs child?

>

> I only know that I finally gave up my career to stay home...... I

just couldn't do it and give my son the focus he needed to thrive and

overcome his many challenges. I know that some women do manage to

balance this successfully but my job was all consuming.....

>

> Janice

>

[Guest guest]

Re: Also remember 80% of people wouldn't choose to have a baby with Down

Syndrome -so your opinion is well within the norm. I'm the strange

one here -I'm proud of her decision because I think it's gross

frankly that if people could know before hand that their child was

going to have any type of " defect " parents can just choose to abort

them. What about our kids with dyspraxia or autism? What about if

your child will need glasses or braces? What if your child's eyes

are going to be brown and only green will do because it matches your

car? Gross. To me -that's my opinion that we decide which life is

worth living.

, as much as we may disagree on things there is nothing that we

agree on more than this. A friend of mine just this year was thinking

about aborting a baby because it may have DS. It killed me. In the end

she did not but she was very upfront in telling everyone her plan if

the tests did not come out right. My stepmom was the same way when she

got pregnant with my sister. I am glad both girls got to live. Neither

happen to be DS but how sad to think if they were they would not live.

Very Nazi Germany if you ask me.

[Guest guest]

Isn't having this debate so Leave it to Beaver 50s. We are not

talking about a normal job -but VP of the USA with perks (like

probably top therapists and doctors and all on call) on top of the

200K a year http://www.lib.umich.edu/govdocs/fedprssal.html And

isn't that way more than a professional fisherman makes?

So who says the father -Palin's husband, can't take a sabbatical from

his professional fishing job if his wife is VP and " mother " the baby?

It's 2008 -we are either going to have the first black president or

the first woman vice president but do we still have to catch up on

gender equality rights? In my book club one of the moms has a high

powered job and her husband is the house husband -and they are happy

and so are their kids. Based on Palin's stand however -I doubt she'd

let her husband do the brunt -even though I don't know her it seems

like she's going to be there as much as she possibly can. But again -

it's not like she's a single mom.

http://www.fathersnetwork.org/

=====

[Guest guest]

For me, it's not about gender equality, it's not about pro-life or pro-choice

..... it's about sacrifice and bonding.  I am pro-woman and think a woman can do

anything she wants and be anything she wants but when it comes to kids

(especially special needs) ... you have to step back and reevaluate.

I wasn't a VP but at 30, I was an IT Director for a large healthcare org and the

first and only ethnic.  I thought I had arrived and I just knew in a few short

years, I would be CIO then CEO; I was blazing in my career.  After about six

months on the job, I took an early lunch break and went to see my daughter at

school and I didn't like what I saw. So, I went back to my brand new office and

typed up my resignation on my brand new laptop because in spite of all the money

i spent on therapy my daughter was unhappy and had not improved one bit.

I didn't work for 1 1/2 years and when I started back, I worked from home, in

the middle of the night.  I can't even begin to explain how my presence and

connection with my daughter has helped her in this recovery process. (Shoot, I

think everybody in this group understands that their presence has been key.)

[Guest guest]

When I was pregnant with Dakota I was working on one of my first

patents in the medical field and had just been offered a consultant

job to Kendall Futuro, and....I was also working on an animated film

that I wrote and designed with one of the top directors from Disney.

It had received praise from both the UN and the CDC. I had been

promised help from the (at the time) leading person from Sony

pictures -when you are on a roll you're on a roll. Then Dakota was

born. I put everything on hold and as I said I chose to spend 24/7

with Dakota and didn't leave his side for a second. But that was my

choice. Then Tanner was born and about 2 to 3 years later I found

out that I had 2 special needs kids. My babies did change my life's

direction. But that was my choice and one I never once doubted. But

not everyone that has a child with special needs is me. The woman I

know from my kid's school that I have the book club with told me that

she just does not have the maternal instinct that we have. She loves

her kids but knows that her husband does a better job of caring for

them. None of us I'm guessing know Palin -but Liz made an excellent

point. Within 3 days of giving birth to her baby with Down Syndrome

she was back to work as Governor of Alaska. So if one wants to do

research as to how she'll work it out a good model would be how she's

working it out. So I just did a quick search and actually perhaps

the baby will be with her mother if elected 24/7 at Number One

Observatory Circle, the VP residence...how is that possible? Some

believe the eldest daughter is the mother. Hmmm and who's always

holding the baby in the photos? So there! There mister...mister

leave it to beaver! Now we're a bunch of Mrs. Kravitz's!

Is Bristol Palin Baby Trig's Mother? Evidence & Pictures

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnBjwZ93n6Q

=====

[Guest guest]

After watching the news shows this morning, I'm just shaking my head. 

They are pushing that she made the right choice and did not abort her child

after she found out her child had down syndrome; what's so good about it when

you're not there? 

Someone made a comment about how hopefully Palin will bring attention to Special

Needs children; she didn't bring attention to the issue while she was Governor

so who says she'll do it if she is VP?

I'm just flabbergasted.  In my opinion, the lack of treatment/lack of attention

given to Special Needs children in America is worse than Racism.  If I'm not

there as her Protector and Bodyguard, they'd walk all over her.  Lord knows my

Mom and Sister try and love my daughter but they just don't understand.  This

drives home how hard I have to work to get my child as recovered as possible.

[Guest guest]

We can't make assumptions that the husband is not sharing in the care

for the baby also. My husband is always willing to share the

responsiblity for doctor's visits and therapies, as well as quick

trips to the grocery store and many child raising activities. I

also think some of the people who have commented are insinuating that

Govenor Palin is not being a " good mother " by having a successful,

high powered career. This is truely a step back for our society. I

know of a woman who is self-proclaimed " not maternal " and works as a

successful doctor, while her husband is the primary caregiver and

stay-at-home dad. We have to remember that in this day and age,

women and men are free to make the " choices " that work best for them

individually, without worrying about social stigma. It would also

help to remember that there are probably more than a few mom's on

this message board that either cannot afford to not work, or have

successful careers not worth giving up (including some of the medical

professionals and researchers who have kindly shared their knowledge

with many of us here, personally).

Sorry to rant, but I just feel like it's easy to judge someone when

you are not living in their shoes. We should give everyone the

benifit of the doubt that they are doing the very best they can.

Kate

[Guest guest]

Personally,

I believe that we all take some time to realize the 'truth' of special needs and

the requirements of the 'mom'. Right now, I think that Palin is operating under

the premise of naiveté but when her child gets a little older and he doesn't

seem so cute to others and it becomes obvious that he really needs some extra

care and a lot of it..... then she will see and then she will begin to

understand but I simply don't think it has sunk in yet. In addition, how much

time does she really spend with the child if she is governor? She certainly

cannot possibly be a full time mom.....

[sPAM]Re: [ ] Re: Palin's choice puts her under 20%

After watching the news shows this morning, I'm just shaking my head.

They are pushing that she made the right choice and did not abort her child

after she found out her child had down syndrome; what's so good about it when

you're not there?

Someone made a comment about how hopefully Palin will bring attention to

Special Needs children; she didn't bring attention to the issue while she was

Governor so who says she'll do it if she is VP?

I'm just flabbergasted. In my opinion, the lack of treatment/lack of

attention given to Special Needs children in America is worse than Racism. If

I'm not there as her Protector and Bodyguard, they'd walk all over her. Lord

knows my Mom and Sister try and love my daughter but they just don't understand.

This drives home how hard I have to work to get my child as recovered as

possible.

[Guest guest]

I couldn't agree with you more! Talk about living in the 50's, people who

still use the MR term for developmentally disabled children should think twice

and consider the feelings of the parents and the children. It's great for

fathers to be involved, and so they should. But moms who feel they just aren't

maternal enough, in my opinion, having stopped worked as an attorney and as a

campaign manager for local political campaigns, are just making excuses.

Caring for a special needs child, especially one who has severe issues, isn't

easy. But so many of us put our children first and rise to the level that we

have

to, for our child's sake. Carolyn

**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel

deal here.

(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)

[Guest guest]

As a group of parents on this board I find it amazing that we can be

so negative and critical towards somone's decision on how to parent a

special needs child, whether to work or stay at home. We all know

that what works for one parent doesn't necessarily mean that it will

work for another. What works for one child doens't necessarily work

for another. We try not to critize each other when it comes to

particular treatments but when it comes to whether a mother choses to

work for pay that seems okay to critize.

Although I chose to stay at home with my special needs child (b/c I

also wanted to be available to volunteer in my other children's

classrooms) I know that services would have come to my child's day

care and/or to my office if I had been working. I have seen it with

other working moms in my area. Some work places in my area allow

children to be brought until they are mobile. Others have onsite

child care. When I requested EI services they asked if I would like

to have the services brought to the home, child care center, place of

work, or even at my other children's school site while I volunteered.

I would think that as VP, Palin would have some of these services

available to her.

Todd Palin works on the North slope. Living in AK, I have many

neighbours who also work on the slope. They usually work two weeks

on, two weeks off type of schedules. Why can't Todd be with Trig

during his weeks off to take him to therapy? Then on the weeks he

works the slope other arrangements be made. Working parents do this

all the time, whether they work because they want to or work because

they have to.

Maybe the Palin family is in denial about how much it takes to raise

a special needs child but I think we all were. Whether a republican

or democrat, we should remember that we have all been there. After

all, isn't that why so many of us are on this board...to help support

the parents of newly diagnosed children, whether working parents or

not, becuase we know how hard it is. Let's not bash parenting styles

of special needs children or whether she should work or not. Leave

that to the media.

[Guest guest]

You know, we always make excuses and reward people that don't need yet don't

reward those that make the sacrifice.  In my opinion (and we all have one)

children should come first.

It is boggling my mind how they are now making excuses about her pregnant 17

year old daughter.  Somebody on that side needs to put those kids first.

From: juleeff <juleeff@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: Palin's choice puts her under 20%

Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 2:51 PM

As a group of parents on this board I find it amazing that we can be

so negative and critical towards somone's decision on how to parent a

special needs child, whether to work or stay at home. We all know

that what works for one parent doesn't necessarily mean that it will

work for another. What works for one child doens't necessarily work

for another. We try not to critize each other when it comes to

particular treatments but when it comes to whether a mother choses to

work for pay that seems okay to critize.

Although I chose to stay at home with my special needs child (b/c I

also wanted to be available to volunteer in my other children's

classrooms) I know that services would have come to my child's day

care and/or to my office if I had been working. I have seen it with

other working moms in my area. Some work places in my area allow

children to be brought until they are mobile. Others have onsite

child care. When I requested EI services they asked if I would like

to have the services brought to the home, child care center, place of

work, or even at my other children's school site while I volunteered.

I would think that as VP, Palin would have some of these services

available to her.

Todd Palin works on the North slope. Living in AK, I have many

neighbours who also work on the slope. They usually work two weeks

on, two weeks off type of schedules. Why can't Todd be with Trig

during his weeks off to take him to therapy? Then on the weeks he

works the slope other arrangements be made. Working parents do this

all the time, whether they work because they want to or work because

they have to.

Maybe the Palin family is in denial about how much it takes to raise

a special needs child but I think we all were. Whether a republican

or democrat, we should remember that we have all been there. After

all, isn't that why so many of us are on this board...to help support

the parents of newly diagnosed children, whether working parents or

not, becuase we know how hard it is. Let's not bash parenting styles

of special needs children or whether she should work or not. Leave

that to the media.

[Guest guest]

Janice, my thoughts exactly. Even for a neurotypical child, I strongly feel that

in the first few years one of the parents should be there more often than other

people in that child's life. Doesn't have to be the mother necessarily, unless

breastfeeding, which I strongly believe in, but pumps can make that easier from

further away, even stewardesses can do it and overnight their breast milk back

home for the baby. 

However, with a special needs child, and one that will clearly have so many

challenges, just bringing him/her into the world  is not enough even if you do

have other people to take your child to all the therapies and work on all the

things the parents should be working on at home, and some one to cook and clean

and do everything else in the house and for that child.   Kissing them good

night and playing with them once in a while is not exactly what a parent's role

should be

and with a highly demanding career (never mind vice president or PRESIDENT of

the USA) I just can't see her having time to do more than that or even that on a

regualr basis, given the traveling and the intense overtime required in this

position. 

Don't get me wrong,I'm all for women taking more of a role in political life

careers etc. but these are decisions each woman and mother has to make and once

you decide to become a parent and are blessed with several children including

special needs,  putting your career above the family needs seems to me

irresponsible even if the financial circumstances enable you to pay for someone

else to care for your children's needs. There is still a LOT of researching and

understanding about your child's exact needs, and that personalized attention

that only a parent can give and it can make a world of difference for that

child.

I know my personal and political biases are showing in what I'm about to say

now,

but it seems to be that many of the very vocal pro-life proponents, are very

outspoken about bringing even the severely special needs children into the

world, but when it comes to providing the funding for all the costly treatments

these children need, their attitude is very different than we'd expect and the

burden falls completly on the parents since they generally do not believe in

very expensive social and medical programs to address these children's needs.

So in her case if her husband will be doing all this in her place, it's one

thing, and she certainly has the money to pay others to do things too, but with

such a high level political career I just don't see how that could happen even

if the husband stayed home and was the primary caregiver.  It requires too much

effort from the entire family to be so involved in the running of the biggest

and most politically complex country in the world. Even with grown children it's

not easy to keep up with the family obligations, much less younger ones and

special needs ones.

Yes, I know I'm biased and it's her choice of course but the American people

will need to decide if they can entrust such responsibility to a person with so

little experience in the first place, and such a heavy family burden on top of

it all.  I know that if I had brought such a special needs child into the world

I would feel my primary responsibility toward the family obligations.  But

that's just me and I've already made this decision in my life to give up my

career so I'm biased in my views I admit.  Before I had children it was

different, and I'm sure I may go back to that independence of mind when she's

all grown up and on her own, but now at 4 years of age and in such great need of

special interventions and intense work outside of school and therapy hours, I

cannot imagine thinking of trying to " save or run the world " on top of it all. I

just can't imagine where my daughter would be had she been taken to day care at

an early age and just left

with whatever Early Intervention and the school Dsitrict wanted to provide for

her and without the special diet and supplements if I had made the decision to

return to my career as noble as it may have been since I was previously working

in non-profit development.  A life is a terrible thing to waste... and as

parents our children's lives are our primary concern.

Anyway, nice to see others are thinking along the same line.

-Elena

From: Janice <jscott@...>

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Palin's choice puts her under 20%

Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 6:54 PM

Hi,

I am not American and so have no affiliations but I do wonder about Sondra

Palin's decision to take on such a challenge with

firstly.... such a young

baby to care for and secondly..... a young baby who is clearly going to need all

of the help and extra assistance a family can muster.

The decision to have a child necessitates the decision to give that child every

opportunity to thrive and to prosper at your disposal.

Mat. leave is there for a purpose.... so that mother and baby can bond during

the first year of life. I believe that this is a very important time between

mother and child so I was flabergasted to learn that Sondra Palin was accepting

the call to service with a little tyke to care for and to nurture.

I just cannot help but feel sorry for the child in this case. I wonder if she

is a bit naive as to the 'true' needs of a special needs child or if

perhaps, she is such a dynamo that she has it covered. ly, I don't

know how this could be possible but perhaps it can....

I know that when I was working with

Mark needing so much extra..... I always

felt torn between his needs getting fulfilled and our financial needs as a

family and my personal career which was at an all time high. It is a difficult

balance. When a child has special needs, all of the nurtering and early

intervention goes a long, long way to making the difference between severely

handicapped and high-functioning individual. I still feel guilty for working

through Mark's first 4 years of life. I still feel that had I stayed home,

I could have helped him so much more. In addition, it is very tough to stay

focused in a high level position when your child is not thriving as he could be.

I make no judgements on her character or her person since I have not followed

her career but it does seem like she is a wonderful and dynamic politician.

However, I cannot help but feel this twinge of sorrow for her child who needs

her so much and shall have to make

do with nannies and such because of this

decision to serve. It is a difficult road that she has chosen.

I only hope that she does not look back at some later date and regret her

decision.

What do all of you think instinctively? Can you have a high powered career

such as being the VP of the US and still adequately provide the

'extra's' required for a special needs child?

I only know that I finally gave up my career to stay home...... I just

couldn't do it and give my son the focus he needed to thrive and overcome

his many challenges. I know that some women do manage to balance this

successfully but my job was all consuming.....

Janice

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I'm sure those of us, including me, that were able to make that

choice to stay home with our children with or without special needs

did so because we decided what was best in our situation. We have

quite a few working mothers in this group who did/could not give

up their career and the direction of these messages (forget very

narrow minded) is very hurtful in my opinion. Yes there are bad

parents out there but you can't guess who they are just based on if

they work or not when they have a special needs child! That's just

ridiculous. If you are angry at me for saying this or angry at Palin

or the media for bringing this up then you have to look within

yourself and ask why. If others are happy with their decision it's

not right for others to judge that they are wrong. On the other

extreme parents that chose to stay home and home school have been

attacked for being on the opposite side. What are we ants?

Forget VP (which again in my opinion if elected that child will have

more then any of our children do and did whether you stay home or

not!) I don't know why this topic is bringing so much anger against

working mothers -but it's a bit barbaric. As one parent said what

about all the parents here that are doctors or researchers who in

addition to working and raising a special needs child volunteer here

to answer other's questions and help. Let's raise the level of

acceptance here. There is no right or wrong -there is the right to

personal decision as to what is best for each individual's

situation. If you are not that person it's just your opinion. And

you know what they say about opinions -so stop being one!

=====

[Guest guest]

Thank you for sharing your story with us . I think all of us on this

board have made and are making constant sacrifices for our special needs

children.  Some give up more than others, but the point is the bonding and that

special care only a parent can give. And what a difference it makes. I gave up

my non-profit development career but I  actually still work --in a different

area true, and from home and at night so it is more flexible, and I do it

primarily for the extra money not any career aspirations per se, but I cannot

imagine having a full time job, much less a very demanding one in terms of time

and responsibility knowing what my daughter and I are up against in this world

and she's considered a " speech only " child.  Of course I know what that means

for an apraxic child and how I need to work that much harder to help her learn

and succeed because others will either consider her incapable or will ignore her

special needs as it suits them

and either way she will need my help for a long long time.

We all make difficult decisions, but the price our children pay cannot be

calculated by anybody. It is ultimately our conscience and our knowing we've

done all that we possibly can.  All the power to you ! Your child may

never fully know all you did for her because children rarely do, but she will

surely have the benefits and that's all that counts. You will be rewarded I am

sure when your child would have reached her full potential and will have the

best chances for a happy, well balanced life in spite of her initial

difficulties.

Elena

From: Strozier <imyconsulting@...>

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Palin's choice puts her under 20%

Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 11:52 PM

For me, it's not about gender equality, it's not about pro-life or

pro-choice .... it's about sacrifice and bonding.  I am pro-woman and think

a woman can do anything she wants and be anything she wants but when it comes to

kids (especially special needs) ... you have to step back and reevaluate.

I wasn't a VP but at 30, I was an IT Director for a large healthcare org

and the first and only ethnic.  I thought I had arrived and I just knew in a

few short years, I would be CIO then CEO; I was blazing in my career.  After

about six months on the job, I took an early lunch break and went to see my

daughter at school and I didn't like what I saw. So, I went back to my brand

new office and typed up my resignation on my brand new laptop because in spite

of all the money i spent on therapy my daughter was unhappy and had not improved

one bit.

I didn't work for 1 1/2 years and when I started back, I worked from home,

in the middle of the night.  I can't even begin to explain how my presence

and connection with my daughter has helped her in this recovery process. (Shoot,

I think everybody in this group understands that their presence has been key.)

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

You know, maybe it's just a southern idea, but it is not really any of

our business. Whatever happened to women supporting other woman?

What about the wonderful therapists who have special needs children of

their own?? Might be a sad day if everyone got their keys and went to

the house as we say!!

I know there has to have been some Moms offended because of some of the

things mentioned in this thread. When I had polio at age 2 in 1951, my

mother HAD to go to work to pay for the extra physical therapy their

insurance would not pay for. A loving, caring neighbor came in and

took care of me.

I am just fine and I am sure this child will be too!!

Pam in GA.

kiddietalk wrote:

>

> I'm sure those of us, including me, that were able to make that

> choice to stay home with our children with or without special needs

> did so because we decided what was best in our situation. We have

> quite a few working mothers in this group who did/could not give

> up their career and the direction of these messages (forget very

> narrow minded) is very hurtful in my opinion. Yes there are bad

> parents out there but you can't guess who they are just based on if

> they work or not when they have a special needs child! That's just

> ridiculous. If you are angry at me for saying this or angry at Palin

> or the media for bringing this up then you have to look within

> yourself and ask why. If others are happy with their decision it's

> not right for others to judge that they are wrong. On the other

> extreme parents that chose to stay home and home school have been

> attacked for being on the opposite side. What are we ants?

>

> Forget VP (which again in my opinion if elected that child will have

> more then any of our children do and did whether you stay home or

> not!) I don't know why this topic is bringing so much anger against

> working mothers -but it's a bit barbaric. As one parent said what

> about all the parents here that are doctors or researchers who in

> addition to working and raising a special needs child volunteer here

> to answer other's questions and help. Let's raise the level of

> acceptance here. There is no right or wrong -there is the right to

> personal decision as to what is best for each individual's

> situation. If you are not that person it's just your opinion. And

> you know what they say about opinions -so stop being one!

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

A. Yes

B. No

C. Again

Perhaps she now has a different view about sex ed?

" CNN.com reports that Palin " indicated during her run for Alaska

governor that she was a firm supporter of abstinence-only education

in schools. In a 2006 Eagle Forum questionnaire, Palin indicated that

she supported funding abstinence-until-marriage education programs

instead of teaching sex-education programs. 'Explicit sex-ed programs

will not find my support,' Palin wrote in the conservative group's

questionnaire. "

from one of the links from this site

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/01/palin-my-daughter-is-preg_n_122947.html

=====