Re: preschool IEP

[Guest guest]

We did that with this year... she is in a typical 2-yr old program at

the YMCA...in fact, although I told the program that she had down syndrome the

teacher assigned to that class did not find out about Vickie's special needs

until the night before when we had the parent get together. But they have been

great and work really well with her.. We had it paid for with the family driven

money by stressing the socialization and peer model speech aspects. The

teachers and aids are really good in getting all the children involved.... and

the children at this age have just taken to Vickie like any other child... they

seem to sense that she needs a little more help on some things and the teachers

report that some of the kids help get Vickie back on track during circle time

and such.... I have seen her holding hands and dancing with some of the other

kids... the only thing that I have done that helps is occassionally having the

early intervention therapists go out there for observation every couple of

months... this helps the preschool by giving them ideas and helps the therapists

by letting them see her interact with others.... also, since Vickie is not very

verbal yet... I have taught the teachers some of her common signs so that they

understand what she is saying...... While it has been great for Vickie and I

have seen progress., she needs more then 2 days a week for 2 hours each..... so

I am looking into more options with the upcoming transition to the intermediate

unit......

saying all that it sounds like you have a very open minded preschool teacher and

it sounds like it will be great for your little one.... same age peers can be

such teachers without even trying.... Just concentrate on the goals you want...

walking, speech, and socialization..... Indicate where she is now in these

skills and figure out where you want her to be..... make goals simple to

understand and measure... like be able to identify by pointing 3 different

colors 3 out of 4 attempts.. Walk 2 feet without supports...., be able to say

her name.... develop a vocabulary of 25 words.... etc

hope that helps

Ann-marie

Preschool " IEP "

Hi everyone,

I don't write much because my daughter with DS is only 17 mos, but I am

starting to plan for the fall when she will enter our church preschool

program. She will be 2 and I want her to have a couple mornings a week with

other kids her age. I think it will be good for socialization skills and

speech and also maybe motivate her to walk, etc. (She is JUST starting to

crawl now so I don't know if she will be walking by then).

I guess I am just looking for any input on how to approach this. It is a

private program so obviously they don't have to do an IEP, but the church

education director has expressed willingness to do one. She won't be getting

her therapies there since she will still qualify for home EI and I love that

and don't want to change it until I have to, when she turns 3. So the things

that need to be addressed are things like how the teacher can help her to

learn, facilitate her socialization, and ensure that she is not just sitting

in the middle of the room while everyone else is playing (which is my fear).

I want her engaged and not just left alone because she is so quiet and good

natured. Any suggestions how to approach planning for this?

Janis

[Guest guest]

I think this a WONDERFUL idea to include your daugher at an early age.

Good for you!!! Our daugher with DS (just turned 5 last month) attended

a 2 year old program 1 day/week (3 hours), then went on to both the 3

year old program (2 afternoons/week) and 4 year old program (3

afternoons/week). All, by the way, were church preschool programs that

didn't have trouble including . She received EI services until

age 3, then at age 3, she began special day preschool (2-3

mornings/week) where she receives all her services. Our philosophy has

been that what is missing from EI and then later (after turning age 3),

special ed school offerings was the lack of typical children as role

models. All kids learn by observation and modeling, and I believe that

many children with DS need this even more (especially the repetition of

language, social skills and behavior!) Hence, we have not written any

goals for her in her typical settings..... just asked that the teachers

work with her like any other child, and if she had difficulties with

some aspect of the program, we could address them as they came up. I

would just espress to the teacher your desire to have her engaged in the

program (walking or not...... if she can't walk to the program, have the

program come to her :-) that the other children are involved in. In my

experience, there is a " classrom routine " , but minimal structure in the

2 year old program.... they will probably to circle time (which she can

sit at, and be encouraged to participate, just like her peers), then

have some free play time (where she can be offered choices that are

appropriate for her, whereever she is developmentally), probably some

art project (which most of the 2 year olds need help with, even the

simple ones!), outdoor time (hey, I've seen non-walkers crawl around a

playset pretty well), snack time (they all need helping opening their

snacks...... send things she can easily and foster independence), songs,

closing circle, etc.

Peeking in unannounced to observe what your daugher is doing will be

much more informative than an IEP at this stage. I really think that if

the teachers are good, they will do their best to keep all children

engaged and involved, and if they are not, no IEP will make them do it.

The fact that are open and welcoming to your daugher suggests that they

are willing to work with her. That be said, remember that children have

different personalities and if your daugher isn't running with the pack

(later, when she'd running :-), it may be because she chooses a more

quiet environment. , I think, shut down a little, especially

her first year of preschool, from all the noise (she has always been

sensitive to loud noises). She is really an observer, and would sit in

circle (but not participate) and watch, or sit on the rug with her

beloved books (but watching the other kids).... no matter what the

teachers did to try and involve her. Slowley, she's become more

outgoing, and now is regularly participating in circle, playing with

friends, etc. But that isn't how it looked at age 2...... remember that

2 year olds don't interact as much as you'd think when playing..... they

like to play near eather other, but don't interact all that much.

We have made the point (like many others on this list) that is

a kid first, and despite the DS and all the doctors, therapies,

teachers, etc., we still need to find ways to let her " just be a kid " .

Attending " typical " preschool without goals has allowed her to do that,

and we have been really happy with the progress she has made verbally

and socially. Her behavior at her typical preschool isn't as good as a

special day, but it isn't terrible, so I'm sort of watching this in

anticipation of transitioning to kindergarten next year. Good luck,

and feel free to email me privately if you'd like.

, mom to (7), (5 DS), and (3)

janisgonzales@... wrote:

>Hi everyone,

>I don't write much because my daughter with DS is only 17 mos, but I am

>starting to plan for the fall when she will enter our church preschool

>program. She will be 2 and I want her to have a couple mornings a week with

>other kids her age. I think it will be good for socialization skills and

>speech and also maybe motivate her to walk, etc. (She is JUST starting to

>crawl now so I don't know if she will be walking by then).

>

>I guess I am just looking for any input on how to approach this. It is a

>private program so obviously they don't have to do an IEP, but the church

>education director has expressed willingness to do one. She won't be getting

>her therapies there since she will still qualify for home EI and I love that

>and don't want to change it until I have to, when she turns 3. So the things

>that need to be addressed are things like how the teacher can help her to

>learn, facilitate her socialization, and ensure that she is not just sitting

>in the middle of the room while everyone else is playing (which is my fear).

>I want her engaged and not just left alone because she is so quiet and good

>natured. Any suggestions how to approach planning for this?

>Janis

>

>Click reply to all for messages to go to the list. Just hit reply for messages

to go to the sender of the message.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Most of our students with speech only needs(as does) do follow the

itinerant model, but the team here felt that he might benefit more from our

on-going language rich environment in the classroom. Sounds like your experts

may feel differently.

Many of our parents with children in itinerant speech only services have their

children attend a private preschool so they can have all typical preschoolers

with good communication/language skills to model

She is generalizing here. The IDEa requires that your son receive services and

supports to meet his UNIQUE needs. They cannot put a child in a cookie cutter

class based on eligibility. If he reuqires more intensive therapy then they need

to give it to him period. They cannot say it is one or the other. Get an

advocate to go with you. She sounds like a bully.

From: gretchie9@... <gretchie9@...>

Subject: [ ] preschool IEP

Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 9:11 PM

Here we go again....

 

A few weeks ago, I requested an IEP meeting to request more speech services for

my son, , during his week at preschool. 

 

Right now, according to his IEP wording - he gets " 30 minutes of group

therapy per month " (which equals less than 10 minutes per week).  When I

approached his teacher about that - she told me that 30 minutes per month is the

minimum help he gets.  She says he is actually getting 30 minutes per week,

but that the wording in the IEP states 30 per month for legal reasons.  OK,

does that sound shady to anyone else?  I think it's borderline

fraudulent.  Do any other parents have IEP's that have wording like that? 

I am confused about the whole " minimum " thing but if that's

standard for IEP's then I am willing to accept it, I just don't want to

get hosed.

 

Here is my other question - after calling an IEP meeting (which is scheduled

for next week) - 's SLP asked me to list some goals for him.  I sent

her a few things like working on yes/no answers, eliminating his echoing habit,

working on C's and P's so he can learn to say his name correctly.  I

also mentioned that I would like him to have a 1:1 session with her once a

week - in addition to his group work.  And I passed along the recommendations

of his Developmental Pediatrician - who says needs 1:1 therapy several

times a week.

 

Then today - the preschool director dropped a huge bomb on me.  She sent me an

email saying that if I wanted to have 1:1 therapy then I would have to

take him out of the preschool altogether and begin itinerant services! 

Seriously - change his entire routine over one half hour of speech a week?!?!? 

 

Again, has anyone else had this happen?  I thought kids could get 1:1 therapy

while attending public preschool?  I hate to remove from this school

that he has grown to love.  Should I just back off or call this woman's

bluff? 

 

Most of the time I think she is just bullying the crap out of a mom who is just

trying to do right by her child.   This is the same woman who called my home a

few weeks ago (when I first told her about the Developmental Pediatrician's

recommendations) and said " I don't tell the doctor how to treat

patients, so I don't expect her to tell me how to run my school and treat

students. "   YIKES.  She is one scary lady.  I am dreading our next

confrontation.

 

Here is the Preschool Director's email from today....

 

 

Hi Gretchen,

Thanks for your response. It looks like you feel that may benefit more

from Itinerant services verses Center-based services from your last e-mail.

...

Itinerant services would be once a week for 30 minutes one on one with a speech

pathologist in his home elementary building. (which is Ridgewood Elem)

Unfortunately, he would no longer be in our classroom based setting, but this

sounds like this may better meet his needs according to you and your doctors

request .

Most of our students with speech only needs(as does) do follow the

itinerant model, but the team here felt that he might benefit more from our

on-going language rich environment in the classroom. Sounds like your experts

may feel differently.

Many of our parents with children in itinerant speech only services have their

children attend a private preschool so they can have all typical preschoolers

with good communication/language skills to model during their instruction. This

of course is parental choice and is not provided by the district.

We can certainly talk about which environment(LRE) is most appropriate for

at the IEP meeting on the 9th. I will also have Deb Osbun attend the IEP

meeting (she is my itinerant teacher) so she can explain fully about Itinerant

services. We can also share our list of private preschools if you want to move

him to an Itinerant model.

See you on the 9th and have a great rest of your week.

Sharon

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Gretchen,

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this! We had some problems with getting

the proper services for our little guy at first, but we found that getting

several different evals from both our private SLP and a developmental

psychologist were very helpful. In the eval from the developmental

pediatrician, did they say that your son needs class-based school services PLUS

the one-on-one speech therapy per week? I'd make sure that any eval had the

info that your son would need to be in both the preschool class plus get the

once a week speech therapy (which the school should be able to provide. 30

minutes per month is ridiculous, IMO. And if they keep saying that he's getting

30 min/per week, his IEP should state that number).

Since loves school, I'd strongly suggest keeping him there and keep

fighting for the weekly speech therapy. If you can, try to have him also

evaluated by a private SLP/speech clinic and have them state how much weekly

speech therapy he should be receiving.

The process can be frustrating, but hang in there! Good luck,

B.

From: gretchie9@... <gretchie9@...>

Subject: [ ] preschool IEP

Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 9:11 PM

Here we go again....

 

A few weeks ago, I requested an IEP meeting to request more speech services for

my son, , during his week at preschool. 

 

Right now, according to his IEP wording - he gets " 30 minutes of group therapy

per month " (which equals less than 10 minutes per week).  When I approached his

teacher about that - she told me that 30 minutes per month is the minimum help

he gets.  She says he is actually getting 30 minutes per week, but that the

wording in the IEP states 30 per month for legal reasons.  OK, does that sound

shady to anyone else?  I think it's borderline fraudulent.  Do any other parents

have IEP's that have wording like that?  I am confused about the whole " minimum "

thing but if that's standard for IEP's then I am willing to accept it, I just

don't want to get hosed.

 

Here is my other question - after calling an IEP meeting (which is scheduled for

next week) - 's SLP asked me to list some goals for him.  I sent her a few

things like working on yes/no answers, eliminating his echoing habit, working on

C's and P's so he can learn to say his name correctly.  I also mentioned that I

would like him to have a 1:1 session with her once a week - in addition to his

group work.  And I passed along the recommendations of his Developmental

Pediatrician - who says needs 1:1 therapy several times a week.

 

Then today - the preschool director dropped a huge bomb on me.  She sent me an

email saying that if I wanted to have 1:1 therapy then I would have to

take him out of the preschool altogether and begin itinerant services! 

Seriously - change his entire routine over one half hour of speech a week?!?!? 

 

Again, has anyone else had this happen?  I thought kids could get 1:1 therapy

while attending public preschool?  I hate to remove from this school that

he has grown to love.  Should I just back off or call this woman's bluff? 

 

Most of the time I think she is just bullying the crap out of a mom who is just

trying to do right by her child.   This is the same woman who called my home a

few weeks ago (when I first told her about the Developmental Pediatrician' s

recommendations) and said " I don't tell the doctor how to treat patients, so I

don't expect her to tell me how to run my school and treat students. "   YIKES. 

She is one scary lady.  I am dreading our next confrontation.

 

Here is the Preschool Director's email from today....

 

 

Hi Gretchen,

Thanks for your response. It looks like you feel that may benefit more

from Itinerant services verses Center-based services from your last e-mail.

...

Itinerant services would be once a week for 30 minutes one on one with a speech

pathologist in his home elementary building. (which is Ridgewood Elem)

Unfortunately, he would no longer be in our classroom based setting, but this

sounds like this may better meet his needs according to you and your doctors

request .

Most of our students with speech only needs(as does) do follow the

itinerant model, but the team here felt that he might benefit more from our

on-going language rich environment in the classroom. Sounds like your experts

may feel differently.

Many of our parents with children in itinerant speech only services have their

children attend a private preschool so they can have all typical preschoolers

with good communication/ language skills to model during their instruction. This

of course is parental choice and is not provided by the district.

We can certainly talk about which environment( LRE) is most appropriate for

at the IEP meeting on the 9th. I will also have Deb Osbun attend the IEP

meeting (she is my itinerant teacher) so she can explain fully about Itinerant

services. We can also share our list of private preschools if you want to move

him to an Itinerant model.

See you on the 9th and have a great rest of your week.

Sharon

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

> Here we go again....

>  

> A few weeks ago, I requested an IEP meeting to request more speech

services for my son, , during his week at preschool. 

>  

> Right now, according to his IEP wording - he gets " 30 minutes of

group therapy per month " (which equals less than 10 minutes per

week).  When I approached his teacher about that - she told me that

30 minutes per month is the minimum help he gets.  She says he

is actually getting 30 minutes per week, but that the wording in the

IEP states 30 per month for legal reasons.  OK, does that sound shady

to anyone else?  I think it's borderline fraudulent.  Do any other

parents have IEP's that have wording like that?  I am confused about

the whole " minimum " thing but if that's standard for IEP's then I am

willing to accept it, I just don't want to get hosed.

>  

> Here is my other question - after calling an IEP meeting (which is

scheduled for next week) - 's SLP asked me to list some goals

for him.  I sent her a few things like working on yes/no answers,

eliminating his echoing habit, working on C's and P's so he can learn

to say his name correctly.  I also mentioned that I would like him to

have a 1:1 session with her once a week - in addition to his group

work.  And I passed along the recommendations of his Developmental

Pediatrician - who says needs 1:1 therapy several times a week.

>  

> Then today - the preschool director dropped a huge bomb on me.  She

sent me an email saying that if I wanted to have 1:1 therapy

then I would have to take him out of the preschool altogether and

begin itinerant services!  Seriously - change his entire routine over

one half hour of speech a week?!?!? 

>  

> Again, has anyone else had this happen?  I thought kids could get

1:1 therapy while attending public preschool?  I hate to remove

from this school that he has grown to love.  Should I just

back off or call this woman's bluff? 

>  

> Most of the time I think she is just bullying the crap out of a mom

who is just trying to do right by her child.   This is the same woman

who called my home a few weeks ago (when I first told her about the

Developmental Pediatrician's recommendations) and said " I don't tell

the doctor how to treat patients, so I don't expect her to tell me

how to run my school and treat students. "   YIKES.  She is one scary

lady.  I am dreading our next confrontation.

>  

> Here is the Preschool Director's email from today....

>  

>  

> Hi Gretchen,

> Thanks for your response. It looks like you feel that may

benefit more from Itinerant services verses Center-based services

from your last e-mail.

> ..

> Itinerant services would be once a week for 30 minutes one on one

with a speech pathologist in his home elementary building. (which is

Ridgewood Elem)

>

> Unfortunately, he would no longer be in our classroom based

setting, but this sounds like this may better meet his needs

according to you and your doctors request .

>

> Most of our students with speech only needs(as does) do

follow the itinerant model, but the team here felt that he might

benefit more from our on-going language rich environment in the

classroom. Sounds like your experts may feel differently.

>

> Many of our parents with children in itinerant speech only services

have their children attend a private preschool so they can have all

typical preschoolers with good communication/language skills to model

during their instruction. This of course is parental choice and is

not provided by the district.

>

> We can certainly talk about which environment(LRE) is most

appropriate for at the IEP meeting on the 9th. I will also

have Deb Osbun attend the IEP meeting (she is my itinerant teacher)

so she can explain fully about Itinerant services. We can also share

our list of private preschools if you want to move him to an

Itinerant model.

>

>

> See you on the 9th and have a great rest of your week.

> Sharon

>  

>  

>  

>  

>  

>  

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gretchen,

I would try (very quickly) to get a Parent Mentor if you don't

already have one. Right now is your son in a centerbased special ed

prek w/ ST? As a special ed prek teacher (in Ohio), we put

the " minimum amount of service required by law " for each service on

the IEP; ST is typically " 20 minutes per week individual and/or small

group " . That being said, the SLP tries to see the kids more (and

it's typically 1:1) than the minimum, provided her schedule allows

(this year it's been 2x per week for most of my kids). My own son

gets ST through our SD 2x week for 20 minutes w/ another child. He

attends a private prek (no services there) and we take him into the

local elem for ST.

I'm not sure why this woman would feel that " itinierant services "

would be best for your son. Itinerant services to me means a special

ed teacher, not a SLP (fyi - state of ohio say that a " itinerant

teacher " can not provide ST to a child (as we are not SLPs!!!) My

district actually tried to get me to agree to this when my son

transitioned from EI to prek. I threw a major fit (hello- this is

what I do for a living, don't try to pull that crap w/ me!) and got

the ST from a SLP!

So, I guess my question would be is the itinerant services from a SLP

(maybe the just mean home based for itinerant services?)? But also

why can't he get his ST and still be in the same prek class? I think

our kids learn as much language from other kids w/ good langauge as

they do from the SLP.

Good luck,

Bonnie

[Guest guest]

Hi there

UGH... bringing back bad memories of a woman who thought she was God

and knew less than nothing about SN's yet knew everything about

bullying, in my past experiences. The tough parents got lawyers,

others moved kids. I had some choices and avoided her altogether -

this was long ago.

I dont mean to be dense and I know what " Itinerant " means but is your

son currently in a public special ed (speech only) preschool or a

private preschool receiving ST thru the schools? If he's in special ed

- speech only.. preschool, I'm not understanding the suggested move.

Group speech, unfortunately as I've found over the years seems to be

the norm and is not always beneficial to all kids. Esp those with

Apraxia so I've heard (havent as of yet dealt with).

The IEP is a legal document and the time for services needs to be

documented accurately. If not, dont sign (you NEVER have to sign when

you're there and you can always have family members, friends,

advocates attend IEP meetings with you). You can also tape record IEPs

but have to let them know. My experience anyway.

Appropriate testing will often show whether a child benefits best from

private vs. group speech. Often the child will help make that

decision. My dd was unable to follow anything in a group and

essentially got up and did her own thing (very happy, didnt interrupt

but never followed instructions). Group speech was a disaster for her.

There was no hiding it and the ST wanted nothing more than to get her

out of the group setting. So that helped a lot. Keep in mind that

schools will often use tests that help them make their spiel on what a

child needs. They often use tests that are inappropriate. My dd has

significant receptive issues (I realize most here arent dealing with

that) but the schools didnt test for that. I had to request in writing

the appropriate test (yes there are books out there) in order to get

the folks to see in black/white that what they were recommending was

idiotic. I often (as much as I could ) got independent evals to

corroborate what I felt was needed.

My dd did eventually attend private preschool, after public preschool,

a few days a week and her aide actually went with which was

awesome...Private preschool was really wonderful for her and we

scheduled her private preschool ultimately a few days a week, and

special ed preschool the other few so she wasnt gone all day. Anyway

that was a rather long rattle. Remember your sons needs drive the IEP.

Identify needs and then what services are needed to meet those needs.

It's not a matter of what the district *can* do... it's a matter of

what your child needs and their legal obligation to fulfill said need

(of course not always that easy). Currently dd is mainstreamed in 1st

grade and still has language issues but is doing beautfully. District

wanted her at their other elementary where they have more support

services (1 hour away). I said " no " .. I fought. The main issue when it

came down to it was lack of OT at our school. She now receives her OT

after school at a Pediatric OT facility (yep it took all of last

summer but they finally, finally thought outside the box). .. I hate

the driving at the late hour, but she's getting incredible and much

needed 1:1 OT in an environment that has a sensory gym, etc.. Dont

give up! www.wrightslaw.com.. great website. Take care and again sorry

so long

Leigh

> >

> >

> >

> > Here we go again....

> > �

> > A few weeks ago, I requested an IEP meeting to request more speech

> services for my son, , during his week at preschool.�

> > �

> > Right now, according to his IEP wording - he gets " 30 minutes of

> group therapy per month " (which equals less than 10 minutes per

> week).� When I approached his teacher about that - she told me that

> 30 minutes per month is the minimum help he gets.� She says he

> is�actually getting 30 minutes per week, but that the wording in the

> IEP states 30 per month for legal reasons.� OK, does that sound shady

> to anyone else?� I think it's borderline fraudulent.� Do any other

> parents have IEP's that have wording like that?� I am confused about

> the whole " minimum " thing but if that's standard for IEP's then I am

> willing to accept it, I just don't want to get hosed.

> > �

> > Here is my other question - after calling an IEP meeting (which is

> scheduled for next week) - 's SLP asked me to list some goals

> for him.� I sent her a few things like working on yes/no answers,

> eliminating his echoing habit, working on C's and P's so he can learn

> to say his name correctly.� I also mentioned that I would like him to

> have�a 1:1 session with her once�a week - in addition to his group

> work.� And I passed along the recommendations of his Developmental

> Pediatrician - who says needs 1:1 therapy several times a week.

> > �

> > Then today - the preschool director dropped a huge bomb on me.� She

> sent me an email saying�that if I wanted to have 1:1 therapy

> then I would have to take him out of the preschool altogether and

> begin itinerant services!� Seriously - change his entire routine over

> one half hour of speech a week?!?!?�

> > �

> > Again, has anyone else had this happen?� I thought kids could get

> 1:1 therapy while attending public preschool?� I hate to remove

> from this school that he has grown to love.� Should I just

> back off or call this woman's bluff?�

> > �

> > Most of the time I think she is just bullying the crap out of a mom

> who is just trying to do right by her child.�� This is the same woman

> who called my home a few weeks ago (when I first told her about the

> Developmental Pediatrician's recommendations) and said " I don't tell

> the doctor how to treat patients, so I don't expect her to tell me

> how to run my school and treat students. " � YIKES.� She is one scary

> lady.� I am dreading our next confrontation.

> > �

> > Here is�the Preschool Director's�email from today....

> > �

> > �

> > Hi Gretchen,

> > Thanks for your response. It looks like you feel that may

> benefit more from Itinerant services verses Center-based services

> from your last e-mail.

> > ..

> > Itinerant services would be once a week for 30 minutes one on one

> with a speech pathologist in his home elementary building. (which is

> Ridgewood Elem)

> >

> > Unfortunately, he would no longer be in our classroom based

> setting, but this sounds like this may better meet his needs

> according to you and your doctors request .

> >

> > Most of our students with speech only needs(as does) do

> follow the itinerant model, but the team here felt that he might

> benefit more from our on-going language rich environment in the

> classroom. Sounds like your experts may feel differently.

> >

> > Many of our parents with children in itinerant speech only services

> have their children attend a private preschool so they can have all

> typical preschoolers with good communication/language skills to model

> during their instruction. This of course is parental choice and is

> not provided by the district.

> >

> > We can certainly talk about which environment(LRE) is most

> appropriate for at the IEP meeting on the 9th. I will also

> have Deb Osbun attend the IEP meeting (she is my itinerant teacher)

> so she can explain fully about Itinerant services. We can also share

> our list of private preschools if you want to move him to an

> Itinerant model.

> >

> >

> > See you on the 9th and have a great rest of your week.

> > Sharon

> > �

> > �

> > �

> > �

> > �

> > �

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I hope your meeting goes well next week. I only wanted to comment on

one of the goals you mentioned. Attaining a specific sound may be

difficult to list as a goal. There is a standard chart for when and

what age certain sounds are reached. There are M,P,B are what they

look for in babbling and beginning to talk babies. It progresses from

there to where they are not expected to do certain blends until at

least 7yrs old for a typical developing child. An Apraxia child would

not have the same goals. Most kids do not attain certain blends till

8 or 9 yrs old. So, ask what age those letters you want him to have

to be able to say his name are normally attained.

My 7dd has full-blown Apraxia and the reason I am here. My 3.11yr old

only required speech services for articulation. He attends a private

preschool where services are not provided.So, two days a week- I

bring him to my SD special services buildig where he gets his 30min

2x week session. I'm not sure what they call public preschool- here

in NY that would only be the Universal PreK program which kids can't

attend till 4 yrs old- or the year before K.They are in the ES but

there is no busing and its only 1/2 day. I have emailed my sons SLP

to ask--IF he qualified for services next year while in the UPK

program- would he be able to get services in school or would I still

have to transport him after his school day is done. I just thought

all preschools are private?

The environment above is different than the center based special

needs private preschool that my daughter attended to be able to get

all her services in one place. My son did not qualify for that

because he only qualified for speech.

[Guest guest]

For what its worth, if I am correct, ASHA (The National Speech and

Language asscociation used to be the National Speach and Hearing

Assoc.) www.asha.org/public/ advises 3 to 5 days of one on one speech

therapy a week. Apraxiakids.org also advocates this because speech

for apraxic children and also for articulation problems requires

repetition in order to build the pathways for the speech to become

natural for the child. otherwise if or when the speech comes it will

be slow and require thought on the childs part. My son has been with

his speech path privatly for a year and he is alsready speaking in 5

to 7 word sentances with small phrases being more spontaneous. he

wasn't speaking at all on his own when we started. After a year with

infants and toddlers program with the school system, we pulled him

out of the school system. We had a horrible experience. We are so

happy we did it this way.

The min. requirement as put forth by federal law is that the school

system is only required to bring the child up to a 25% deficit and

they are not required to provide any services that do not (in their

words) effect a child educationally. In otherwise, they are just

required to help your child to sit in a classroom.

Also you should know that apraxia is not developmental, it is

neurological. The ASHA has advice and documentation to force your

insurance company to cover treatment for apraxia. They should provide

OT and Speech. Even if you only get a few treatments, you can go

private to a speech path (CCC-SLP ceritfied) and have them write up a

treatment plan and an advocate or an attorney can help to force the

school to follow that plan. Also make sure that if you have a speech

path who is not ccc-slp certified through the school system, the

school must require that they treat under the supervision of a speech

path who is CCC-SLP certified. This is the standard treatment for

children and adults with apraxia.

Robyn

>

> Gretchen,

> I would try (very quickly) to get a Parent Mentor if you don't

> already have one. Right now is your son in a centerbased special

ed

> prek w/ ST? As a special ed prek teacher (in Ohio), we put

> the " minimum amount of service required by law " for each service on

> the IEP; ST is typically " 20 minutes per week individual and/or

small

> group " . That being said, the SLP tries to see the kids more (and

> it's typically 1:1) than the minimum, provided her schedule allows

> (this year it's been 2x per week for most of my kids). My own son

> gets ST through our SD 2x week for 20 minutes w/ another child. He

> attends a private prek (no services there) and we take him into the

> local elem for ST.

> I'm not sure why this woman would feel that " itinierant services "

> would be best for your son. Itinerant services to me means a

special

> ed teacher, not a SLP (fyi - state of ohio say that a " itinerant

> teacher " can not provide ST to a child (as we are not SLPs!!!) My

> district actually tried to get me to agree to this when my son

> transitioned from EI to prek. I threw a major fit (hello- this is

> what I do for a living, don't try to pull that crap w/ me!) and got

> the ST from a SLP!

> So, I guess my question would be is the itinerant services from a

SLP

> (maybe the just mean home based for itinerant services?)? But also

> why can't he get his ST and still be in the same prek class? I

think

> our kids learn as much language from other kids w/ good langauge as

> they do from the SLP.

> Good luck,

> Bonnie

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for that info Robyn. My son Adam diagnosed a year ago

w/Apraxia has been receiving OT and Speech through private practice as well. I

had a awful experience w/ my school district when they wanted him to have

behavioral therapy and be in an autistic support classroom. I submitted medical

records that stated he has A[raxia and they told meotherwise. So I told them

otherwise " He's out " ! He is now 4 only in not even a year deep into therapy and

making marvelous progress still no conversations but getting there. I alos put

him in Barn Assisted activities which he loves to death! Thanks for the info

again. brainstorming what school program will meet his needs next year any

suggestions..........

From: robynmichelle@... <robynmichelle@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: preschool IEP

Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 8:20 PM

For what its worth, if I am correct, ASHA (The National Speech and

Language asscociation used to be the National Speach and Hearing

Assoc.) www.asha.org/ public/ advises 3 to 5 days of one on one speech

therapy a week. Apraxiakids. org also advocates this because speech

for apraxic children and also for articulation problems requires

repetition in order to build the pathways for the speech to become

natural for the child. otherwise if or when the speech comes it will

be slow and require thought on the childs part. My son has been with

his speech path privatly for a year and he is alsready speaking in 5

to 7 word sentances with small phrases being more spontaneous. he

wasn't speaking at all on his own when we started. After a year with

infants and toddlers program with the school system, we pulled him

out of the school system. We had a horrible experience. We are so

happy we did it this way.

The min. requirement as put forth by federal law is that the school

system is only required to bring the child up to a 25% deficit and

they are not required to provide any services that do not (in their

words) effect a child educationally. In otherwise, they are just

required to help your child to sit in a classroom.

Also you should know that apraxia is not developmental, it is

neurological. The ASHA has advice and documentation to force your

insurance company to cover treatment for apraxia. They should provide

OT and Speech. Even if you only get a few treatments, you can go

private to a speech path (CCC-SLP ceritfied) and have them write up a

treatment plan and an advocate or an attorney can help to force the

school to follow that plan. Also make sure that if you have a speech

path who is not ccc-slp certified through the school system, the

school must require that they treat under the supervision of a speech

path who is CCC-SLP certified. This is the standard treatment for

children and adults with apraxia.

Robyn

>

> Gretchen,

> I would try (very quickly) to get a Parent Mentor if you don't

> already have one. Right now is your son in a centerbased special

ed

> prek w/ ST? As a special ed prek teacher (in Ohio), we put

> the " minimum amount of service required by law " for each service on

> the IEP; ST is typically " 20 minutes per week individual and/or

small

> group " . That being said, the SLP tries to see the kids more (and

> it's typically 1:1) than the minimum, provided her schedule allows

> (this year it's been 2x per week for most of my kids). My own son

> gets ST through our SD 2x week for 20 minutes w/ another child. He

> attends a private prek (no services there) and we take him into the

> local elem for ST.

> I'm not sure why this woman would feel that " itinierant services "

> would be best for your son. Itinerant services to me means a

special

> ed teacher, not a SLP (fyi - state of ohio say that a " itinerant

> teacher " can not provide ST to a child (as we are not SLPs!!!) My

> district actually tried to get me to agree to this when my son

> transitioned from EI to prek. I threw a major fit (hello- this is

> what I do for a living, don't try to pull that crap w/ me!) and got

> the ST from a SLP!

> So, I guess my question would be is the itinerant services from a

SLP

> (maybe the just mean home based for itinerant services?)? But also

> why can't he get his ST and still be in the same prek class? I

think

> our kids learn as much language from other kids w/ good langauge as

> they do from the SLP.

> Good luck,

> Bonnie

>

[Guest guest]

Gretchen:

I spoke to my SD SLP- the one who runs our whole district. She provides

the 2x a week individual therapy for my 3 yr old. He does not even have

an Apraxia dx. When I mentioned to her that you were given 30minutes a

month for an Apraxia child- she was almost flabbergasted! I'm in NY.

She asked if I would fwd your original posting- which I did before

school ended today. She said she'd even try to get back over the

weekend. I hope we can get something from her before your meeting

Monday. She said Apraxic children should get only Individual and at the

very least 2-3x per week. I'll post as soon as she replies.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, that would be great!  I am organizing my own research - 's Law and

what-not- as we speak.   Thamks do much for the help - I need all I can get

From: Maureen <mosense@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: preschool IEP

Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 8:32 PM

Gretchen:

I spoke to my SD SLP- the one who runs our whole district. She provides

the 2x a week individual therapy for my 3 yr old. He does not even have

an Apraxia dx. When I mentioned to her that you were given 30minutes a

month for an Apraxia child- she was almost flabbergasted! I'm in NY.

She asked if I would fwd your original posting- which I did before

school ended today. She said she'd even try to get back over the

weekend. I hope we can get something from her before your meeting

Monday. She said Apraxic children should get only Individual and at the

very least 2-3x per week. I'll post as soon as she replies.

>

>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi Gretchen,

I'm just coming in on this subject but sure like everyone else am

shocked to hear what your school is doing. I mean like it's possible

your child is the first apraxic child ever to go through their

program?! With IEPs some parents don't appreciate that the squeaky

wheel gets the grease. That doesn't mean just complain, complain,

complain -but stay calm, get your facts together and make a case for

why the placement and therapy your child is in is not appropriate and

what you propose as an appropriate alternative to the current

situation. Your child is entitled by Federal law to a free and

appropriate public education (FAPE) in the least restrictive

environment (LRE). In addition the school year, he may be entitled to

extended school year as well (ESY) if that is deemed to be appropriate

as well.

This is just one of the statements I found annoying

" the team here felt that he might benefit more from our on-going

language rich environment in the classroom. Sounds like your experts

may feel differently. "

The classroom setting/placement is not a replacement for appropriate

one on one therapy -your child is entitled to both appropriate

placement and appropriate therapy. The SLP in the school (is he or

she ASHA certified with 3 Cs?) should be aware (as I am and I'm not

even an SLP!) that " the experts " from ASHA found that " inclusive "

(group) therapy -is only appropriate for children with mild delays in

speech. Debatable with moderate delays in speech, depending upon the

expert, and found inappropriate, possibly detrimental, for children

with severe impairments in speech such as apraxia.

And why is she trying to confuse you with the " itinerant " and " center

based " crap? What difference does it make if the therapy is in the

classroom, or your child needs to go another class or building -or a

therapist is sent to your home, or you take your child to an outside

of the school therapist for it?! Point to them again is that your

child is entitled by Federal law to " both " an appropriate placement

'and' appropriate therapy. <-period!!! Just because he receives one

day or even 5 days a week of one on one therapy doesn't mean he isn't

" entitled " to an appropriate classroom placement as well. I'd ask her

to clarify that in writing -or send me her info and I'll email her and

ask! I can probably use info like this going ahead for the next book!

A language enriched multisensory placement is appropriate, but your

child is also entitled to working with professionals that are

knowledgeable about how to provide appropriate therapy. Is it me or

is this school also making the case that they are not familiar with

apraxia?!! My son Tanner's preschool was bad too -but not as bad as

the picture you have painted of yours...and I was able to secure " out

of district placement " Out of district placement is where you pull

the child out of the program to place them in a school that has

appropriate placement and therapy. Notice the word I keep repeating

here? " appropriate " " inappropriate " Don't have to use any other

words just about. Your child is not entitled to the best -just what

is appropriate. So use that word instead of " best " or " want " or " was

told he needs " etc.

Number one question is do you have a copy of The Late Talker book? If

not please get one because the advocacy chapters contain information

that was thoroughly checked by special ed attorneys, advocates, SLPs,

a neurodevelopmental pediatrician (my co author) and of course I made

sure the parent angle was fully covered.

In my opinion you have to stop talking to them without a tape recorder

or advocate with you, make a paper trail of everything up till now and

from now, and put everything in writing going forward and when you

send something send it return receipt requested, fax copies over,

email -all ways to document -send all three ways just in case. When

anyone from the school says anything to you that sounds fishy= smile

and say " that's interesting, can you put that in writing for me and

explain why? " If they don't put it in writing, you can put what they

said to you in writing and ask for an explanation.

You will need help in advocating and I highly recommend out of pocket

(private insurance) exams with outside the school SLP/s, OT/s, and at

least one neuroMD exam to confirm or rule out soft signs. Also what

state are you in- perhaps there are others here that can help. If you

are in Florida I've helped a few people here already.

To me they are showing how ignorant they are in regards to what type

of therapy is appropriate for an apraxic child and making your case

for out of district placement. What that means is that you find a

school, public or participating private, that can provide appropriate

placement and therapy. Thing is unless you document what they are

saying -watch how quickly you " misunderstood " what they were trying to

say.

~~~~~~~~~~~~just posted to our CHERAB Facebook under IEP discussion

http://www.apraxia.org is the direct website

This parent's school has already suspected both " autism " and

" cognitive delays " in her 3 year old child who has been outside the

school diagnosed as apraxic. Are we seeing a pattern here people?!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The following is a general message to any parent looking to secure an

appropriate IEP- however there is information in it about apraxia. I'm

guessing with the wrong course of treatment you meant they were

treating your child as if there was a simple delay in speech or some

other diagnosis; probably worst case scenario would be misdiagnosis of

autism for an apraxic. Some therapies for autism such as ABA are

highly inappropriate for apraxic children and in our group are known

to be detrimental. (I can supply quite a few stories) As always

appropriate diagnosis is most important.

~~~~~~~~general info on IEPs

If you don't have a diagnosis , you really want to know the reason for

your child's delay in speech as there are quite a list of reasons. Who

evaluated your child thus far? What is your child's diagnosis? Have

you observed the therapy at school to see how knowledgeable the

therapist is about your child's condition? Do you believe you would be

able to tell the difference? Do you have any local support groups near

you to have someone who has been there before help you advocate? Since

school began are you noticing any improvements with the therapy? What

does the IEP goals have for 3 months -6 months. After 3 months of no

progress either the therapy, therapist or diagnosis should be examined

again as perhaps one of them isn't appropriate. It's a bit of a time

game in that your job is to help get her up to speed as quickly as

possible and not to keep her in a situation just because she's getting

the right amount of the wrong therapy -or the right amount of the

right therapy for the wrong condition or the right amount of the right

therapy with a therapist who isn't very good. Don't worry about

hurting anyone's feelings because in a year or so you may never see

the same school professionals again, you could move, but your daughter

is always.

In short to answer your question -many of the children in this group

had almost daily therapy between EI or school and private therapy

You need to know by a neurodevelopmental medical exam (pediatric

neurologist or neurodevelopmental pediatrician if apraxia is

suspected) if there are signs of sensory integration dysfunction or

hypotonia and/or motor planning issues so that you can secure

appropriate therapy for these co existing conditions as well in the

IEP. Of course in addition to the neuroMD exam it's best to secure an

outside the school SLP/ outside the school OT as well.

For example does your child right now have 1/1 therapy in his IEP and

if so how often? Here's a severity intervention matrix to help as well

as some reasons for 1/1 therapy

Importance of one on one therapy

http://www.cherab.org/information/speechlanguage/therapyintensity.html

Severity Intervention Matrix

http://www.cherab.org/information/speechlanguage/therapymatrix.html

Don't let them say there is a language/receptive delay until you have

an appropriate diagnosis since signs of a receptive delay may be due

to an impairment in speech and or motor, sensory or weakness issues.

What state are you in? Perhaps I or others can help you find a

competent neuromedical doctor. At this point it's not just the SLP or

OT who will be able to help you secure the appropriate therapies if it

is apraxia. It does not matter if nobody in the history of your town

ever received one on one -that just tells me that you don't have

advocates in your town. If your town's school is in the US than it

receives Federal monies and has to by law follow the Federal (not just

State or City) laws. The Federal Law is FAPE in the LRE or your child

is entitled to a free and appropriate public education in the least

restrictive environment and you'd be shocked how much is offered once

you learn how to advocate. Rule one never say " best " say " appropriate "

whenever you want to say best. Or " inappropriate " because the school

is not obligated by law to offer your child the best therapy and

placement -only what is appropriate. If they can not provide

appropriate placement and therapy in district than you can seek " out

of district placement " or to have an " expert " come in to train the

current staff and work with your son or to keep your child in district

for certain services and to pay for private therapy at home a few days

a week. If you don't ask you won't get any of that for your child as

I've never known for schools to just offer any of the above without

advocacy.

Have you read The Late Talker book? It's a good starting point book.

Also is your child in the early intervention program through the

school right now and if so how much speech and occupational therapy is

she receiving? To make sure it's appropriate speech and occupational

therapy again you need to have that appropriate diagnosis.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

=====

[Guest guest]

,

 

Thanks so much for your response.  We live in Hilliard, Ohio - it's the 9th

biggest district in the state, so it's hard to believe they are so ill-equipped

to handle apraxia. 

 

I have so many more questions for you...

 

First, how do I go about getting an advocate?  Who and where are these people? 

Possibly my good friend who is a kindergarten teacher in another district?  My

father is an attorney.  Maybe I should consider delaying the IEP meeting and

getting him up to speed on things.  Would it be inappropriate to have an

attorney present at an IEP meeting?

 

The preschool director seems very offended over my decision to consult 's

Developmental Pediatrician about appropriate therapy for him.  She keeps tossing

it aside as if it doesn't matter.  The recommendation from the Specialized

Physician was my chief piece of ammo for the IEP meeting, but it seems like I

need to start focusing more on the laws and less on outside recommendation from

a doctor.

 

Here's the deal - they keep telling me that is getting 30 minutes of

speech a week.  The SLP may be in his classroom 30 minutes per week - but that

doesn't mean she is working 1:1 with .  In fact, he probably is getting

less than 10 minutes per week because she is working with a GROUP of kids.

 

I got a copy of 's new IEP yesterday.  They wanted me to look it over

before the meeting Monday.  They have now offered him 15 minutes 4 times per

month.  In the first IEP, they offered a minimum of 30 minutes per month

overall. 

 

Overall, I think the school is ignorant when it comes to apraxia.  's

teacher, the SLP, the Principal - they all seem to think group therapy is fine

for him.  I don't get it.  You would think the SLP would acknowlege that apraxia

is a disorder that requires more intense services than a lousy 15 minutes of

group therapy a week.  The school's director is beyond intimidating and I fear

going to this meeting alone Monday.  It seems like she really wants rid of us. 

 

Now here's the hard part - I am putting every dime I have into private therapy

twice a week.  It's costing about $500 out of pocket a month.  I have appeals

going with UHC and  just received some funding through through the MRDD

board, but the loose ends are still being tied up - so there's no money yet, and

I have no idea how much actual funding they will give us.  Bottom line, I can't

afford a private preschool at the moment.  The school director seems to

be threatening me with yanking us from the cost-free program, and that's very

intimidating for a family like us who is already pumping so much money into

private speech.

 

So, if things don't go well, should I request out of district placement through

the school or school board? 

 

Should I consider taking the Itinerant services and start looking for another

preschool?  The place where attends speech therapy has a private

preschool that provides speech services EVERY DAY.  Maybe it's time for Mommy to

start working the Taco Bell late shift just to get Coop the help he needs.  He

deserves it.

 

Thanks for help!  I have read the Late Talker several times (checked it out from

the local library about 4 times now).   I need to get my own copy.  They can't

keep it in stock at the library.  Let's hope no one has checked it out today - I

am headed there as soon as the sun comes up!

From: kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: preschool IEP

Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 10:01 PM

Hi Gretchen,

I'm just coming in on this subject but sure like everyone else am

shocked to hear what your school is doing.  I mean like it's possible

your child is the first apraxic child ever to go through their

program?!  With IEPs some parents don't appreciate that the squeaky

wheel gets the grease.  That doesn't mean just complain, complain,

complain -but stay calm, get your facts together and make a case for

why the placement and therapy your child is in is not appropriate and

what you propose as an appropriate alternative to the current

situation.  Your child is entitled by Federal law to a free and

appropriate public education (FAPE) in the least restrictive

environment (LRE).  In addition the school year, he may be entitled to

extended school year as well (ESY) if that is deemed to be appropriate

as well.   

This is just one of the statements I found annoying

" the team here felt that he might benefit more from our on-going

language rich environment in the classroom. Sounds like your experts

may feel differently. "

The classroom setting/placement is not a replacement for appropriate

one on one therapy -your child is entitled to both appropriate

placement and appropriate therapy.  The SLP in the school (is he or

she ASHA certified with 3 Cs?) should be aware (as I am and I'm not

even an SLP!) that " the experts " from ASHA found that " inclusive "

(group) therapy -is only appropriate for children with mild delays in

speech.  Debatable with moderate delays in speech, depending upon the

expert, and found inappropriate, possibly detrimental, for children

with severe impairments in speech such as apraxia.

And why is she trying to confuse you with the " itinerant " and " center

based " crap?  What difference does it make if the therapy is in the

classroom, or your child needs to go another class or building -or a

therapist is sent to your home, or you take your child to an outside

of the school therapist for it?!  Point to them again is that your

child is entitled by Federal law to " both " an appropriate placement

'and' appropriate therapy. <-period!!! Just because he receives one

day or even 5 days a week of one on one therapy doesn't mean he isn't

" entitled " to an appropriate classroom placement as well.  I'd ask her

to clarify that in writing -or send me her info and I'll email her and

ask!  I can probably use info like this going ahead for the next book! 

A language enriched multisensory placement is appropriate, but your

child is also entitled to working with professionals that are

knowledgeable about how to provide appropriate therapy.  Is it me or

is this school also making the case that they are not familiar with

apraxia?!!  My son Tanner's preschool was bad too -but not as bad as

the picture you have painted of yours...and I was able to secure " out

of district placement "   Out of district placement is where you pull

the child out of the program to place them in a school that has

appropriate placement and therapy.  Notice the word I keep repeating

here?  " appropriate "   " inappropriate "   Don't have to use any other

words just about.  Your child is not entitled to the best -just what

is appropriate.  So use that word instead of " best " or " want " or " was

told he needs " etc.

Number one question is do you have a copy of The Late Talker book?  If

not please get one because the advocacy chapters contain information

that was thoroughly checked by special ed attorneys, advocates, SLPs,

a neurodevelopmental pediatrician (my co author) and of course I made

sure the parent angle was fully covered.

In my opinion you have to stop talking to them without a tape recorder

or advocate with you, make a paper trail of everything up till now and

from now, and put everything in writing going forward and when you

send something send it return receipt requested, fax copies over,

email -all ways to document -send all three ways just in case.  When

anyone from the school says anything to you that sounds fishy= smile

and say " that's interesting, can you put that in writing for me and

explain why? "   If they don't put it in writing, you can put what they

said to you in writing and ask for an explanation. 

You will need help in advocating and I highly recommend out of pocket

(private insurance) exams with outside the school SLP/s, OT/s, and at

least one neuroMD exam to confirm or rule out soft signs.  Also what

state are you in- perhaps there are others here that can help.  If you

are in Florida I've helped a few people here already.

To me they are showing how ignorant they are in regards to what type

of therapy is appropriate for an apraxic child and making your case

for out of district placement.  What that means is that you find a

school, public or participating private, that can provide appropriate

placement and therapy.  Thing is unless you document what they are

saying -watch how quickly you " misunderstood " what they were trying to

say.

~~~~~~~~~~~~just posted to our CHERAB Facebook under IEP discussion

http://www.apraxia.org is the direct website

This parent's school has already suspected both " autism " and

" cognitive delays " in her 3 year old child who has been outside the

school diagnosed as apraxic.  Are we seeing a pattern here people?!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The following is a general message to any parent looking to secure an

appropriate IEP- however there is information in it about apraxia. I'm

guessing with the wrong course of treatment you meant they were

treating your child as if there was a simple delay in speech or some

other diagnosis; probably worst case scenario would be misdiagnosis of

autism for an apraxic. Some therapies for autism such as ABA are

highly inappropriate for apraxic children and in our group are known

to be detrimental. (I can supply quite a few stories) As always

appropriate diagnosis is most important.

~~~~~~~~general info on IEPs

If you don't have a diagnosis , you really want to know the reason for

your child's delay in speech as there are quite a list of reasons. Who

evaluated your child thus far? What is your child's diagnosis? Have

you observed the therapy at school to see how knowledgeable the

therapist is about your child's condition? Do you believe you would be

able to tell the difference? Do you have any local support groups near

you to have someone who has been there before help you advocate? Since

school began are you noticing any improvements with the therapy? What

does the IEP goals have for 3 months -6 months. After 3 months of no

progress either the therapy, therapist or diagnosis should be examined

again as perhaps one of them isn't appropriate. It's a bit of a time

game in that your job is to help get her up to speed as quickly as

possible and not to keep her in a situation just because she's getting

the right amount of the wrong therapy -or the right amount of the

right therapy for the wrong condition or the right amount of the right

therapy with a therapist who isn't very good. Don't worry about

hurting anyone's feelings because in a year or so you may never see

the same school professionals again, you could move, but your daughter

is always.

In short to answer your question -many of the children in this group

had almost daily therapy between EI or school and private therapy

You need to know by a neurodevelopmental medical exam (pediatric

neurologist or neurodevelopmental pediatrician if apraxia is

suspected) if there are signs of sensory integration dysfunction or

hypotonia and/or motor planning issues so that you can secure

appropriate therapy for these co existing conditions as well in the

IEP. Of course in addition to the neuroMD exam it's best to secure an

outside the school SLP/ outside the school OT as well.

For example does your child right now have 1/1 therapy in his IEP and

if so how often? Here's a severity intervention matrix to help as well

as some reasons for 1/1 therapy

Importance of one on one therapy

http://www.cherab.org/information/speechlanguage/therapyintensity.html

Severity Intervention Matrix

http://www.cherab.org/information/speechlanguage/therapymatrix.html

Don't let them say there is a language/receptive delay until you have

an appropriate diagnosis since signs of a receptive delay may be due

to an impairment in speech and or motor, sensory or weakness issues.

What state are you in? Perhaps I or others can help you find a

competent neuromedical doctor. At this point it's not just the SLP or

OT who will be able to help you secure the appropriate therapies if it

is apraxia. It does not matter if nobody in the history of your town

ever received one on one -that just tells me that you don't have

advocates in your town. If your town's school is in the US than it

receives Federal monies and has to by law follow the Federal (not just

State or City) laws. The Federal Law is FAPE in the LRE or your child

is entitled to a free and appropriate public education in the least

restrictive environment and you'd be shocked how much is offered once

you learn how to advocate. Rule one never say " best " say " appropriate "

whenever you want to say best. Or " inappropriate " because the school

is not obligated by law to offer your child the best therapy and

placement -only what is appropriate. If they can not provide

appropriate placement and therapy in district than you can seek " out

of district placement " or to have an " expert " come in to train the

current staff and work with your son or to keep your child in district

for certain services and to pay for private therapy at home a few days

a week. If you don't ask you won't get any of that for your child as

I've never known for schools to just offer any of the above without

advocacy.

Have you read The Late Talker book? It's a good starting point book.

Also is your child in the early intervention program through the

school right now and if so how much speech and occupational therapy is

she receiving? To make sure it's appropriate speech and occupational

therapy again you need to have that appropriate diagnosis.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

=====

[Guest guest]

Gretchen -call me at 772 335 5135 or send me your number at

lisa@... (lisa at cherab.org)

=====

[Guest guest]

we have 5 slp a week with sd.

 

 

sl

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which

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Sharon Lang

From: Maureen <mosense (DOT) com>

Subject: [childrensapraxiane t] Re: preschool IEP

@groups. com

Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 8:32 PM

Gretchen:

I spoke to my SD SLP- the one who runs our whole district. She provides

the 2x a week individual therapy for my 3 yr old. He does not even have

an Apraxia dx. When I mentioned to her that you were given 30minutes a

month for an Apraxia child- she was almost flabbergasted! I'm in NY.

She asked if I would fwd your original posting- which I did before

school ended today. She said she'd even try to get back over the

weekend. I hope we can get something from her before your meeting

Monday. She said Apraxic children should get only Individual and at the

very least 2-3x per week. I'll post as soon as she replies.

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Robyn,

when you say that your son has been with his speech path privately for

a year, is that through the school or do you take him somewhere like

to an office where they are located? did you try the school speech

pathologist route too? I am currently looking for a private speech

therapist for my 3 year old apraxic son versus having him go through

the school system. thanks for your help.

Jenn

> >

> > Gretchen,

> > I would try (very quickly) to get a Parent Mentor if you don't

> > already have one. Right now is your son in a centerbased special

> ed

> > prek w/ ST? As a special ed prek teacher (in Ohio), we put

> > the " minimum amount of service required by law " for each service on

> > the IEP; ST is typically " 20 minutes per week individual and/or

> small

> > group " . That being said, the SLP tries to see the kids more (and

> > it's typically 1:1) than the minimum, provided her schedule allows

> > (this year it's been 2x per week for most of my kids). My own son

> > gets ST through our SD 2x week for 20 minutes w/ another child. He

> > attends a private prek (no services there) and we take him into the

> > local elem for ST.

> > I'm not sure why this woman would feel that " itinierant services "

> > would be best for your son. Itinerant services to me means a

> special

> > ed teacher, not a SLP (fyi - state of ohio say that a " itinerant

> > teacher " can not provide ST to a child (as we are not SLPs!!!) My

> > district actually tried to get me to agree to this when my son

> > transitioned from EI to prek. I threw a major fit (hello- this is

> > what I do for a living, don't try to pull that crap w/ me!) and got

> > the ST from a SLP!

> > So, I guess my question would be is the itinerant services from a

> SLP

> > (maybe the just mean home based for itinerant services?)? But also

> > why can't he get his ST and still be in the same prek class? I

> think

> > our kids learn as much language from other kids w/ good langauge as

> > they do from the SLP.

> > Good luck,

> > Bonnie

> >

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[Guest guest]

Gretchen,

I am trying to catch up on emails, I meant to respond to you earlier

last week before your meeting tomorrow on Monday.

You may want to look into

http://www.mcescregionalcenter.com/parent_mentors.html They are part

of the Ohio's regional centers and they do provide support to parents.

The link I sent you has a parent mentor listing, but I believe your

regional area may also have advocacy. If you feel that you are not

fully prepared for tmw's meeting, you may want to request a

continuation of the meeting for a later date so you can get your ducks

in a row.

My background is in special education administration so I can tell you

that your administrator is incorrect that in order to receive 1:1 you

would have to pull your child out of the center based program and go

to the itinerant program . What it is that they are forcing you to do

is to be convenient to them as opposed to the other way around. The

IEP team has to agree on what your child's needs are and from there

build the services around him. If your child is currently successful

and doing well in this center based language rich program, then why

pull him out? Their response may be that that program has a SLP that

only provides group sessions, then your response will be, then your

SLP needs to rearrange his/her schedule to accommodate my child, or

the district needs to send another SLP.

It is not inappropriate to have an attorney, in fact, I have been

present at many IEP/MFE meetings wtih attorneys present, and I'll tell

you that sd personnel tend to be much more careful when attorneys are

present, especially one versed in the spec ed law. Keep in mind that

just because they're administrators, it does not mean that they are

completely versed in the special ed law.

When you hve your meeting, asked them where they got 15 mins 4x a

month from? Some school districts, because of a nationwide speech

pathologists shortage, have been negligent on providing speech

services. Print out all of the information from the Cherab.org

website and bring it with you. Ask the SLP at the meeting what her

background knowledge and experience with apraxia has been. Ask the SLP

if she knows what ASHA's (which she must have a license with to

provide speech), recommendations are for apraxia. Ask her what her

treatment plan for your child is/would be? Would she used PROMPT,

Kaufman or a mix of both? If not, then present the asha handout. Ask

the team to explain apraxia to you. If they cannot explain it, present

the info on how it is neurologically based. Ask them would they

present a child with CP with only 30 mins a month?

THe only thing I want to tell you is that the school director CANNOT

threaten you by stating your son will be pulled out of the public

preschool . Your son has an IEP and therefore his preschool program

is at NO COST to you, even if it was at the home elemetary shcool.

I repeat, your son's FAPE is at no cost to you. If they are unable

to meet his needs within the district, then discussion about out of

district or private school placement can occur such as where he

currently gets his speech therapy that offers preschool with speech

everyday.

Just because a person is a SLP or a spec ed person does not mean that

they are knowledgeable about apraxia or the special education process

and the law. It would behoove you to hvae people attend the meeting

with you so that you are not intimidated and have a voice to help you.

By the way, the center based program he is going to now, is it a

speech only program or a preschool disability classroom?

I am in Cincinnati, and I am more than happy to help you. Email me off

list if you want to talk more.

Lori

> >

> >

> >

> > Here we go again....

> >  

> > A few weeks ago, I requested an IEP meeting to request more speech

> services for my son, , during his week at preschool. 

> >  

> > Right now, according to his IEP wording - he gets " 30 minutes of

> group therapy per month " (which equals less than 10 minutes per

> week).  When I approached his teacher about that - she told me that 30

> minutes per month is the minimum help he gets.  She says he

> is actually getting 30 minutes per week, but that the wording in the

> IEP states 30 per month for legal reasons.  OK, does that sound shady

> to anyone else?  I think it's borderline fraudulent.  Do any other

> parents have IEP's that have wording like that?  I am confused about

> the whole " minimum " thing but if that's standard for IEP's then I am

> willing to accept it, I just don't want to get hosed.

> >  

> > Here is my other question - after calling an IEP meeting (which is

> scheduled for next week) - 's SLP asked me to list some goals

> for him.  I sent her a few things like working on yes/no answers,

> eliminating his echoing habit, working on C's and P's so he can learn

> to say his name correctly.  I also mentioned that I would like him to

> have a 1:1 session with her once a week - in addition to his group

> work.  And I passed along the recommendations of his Developmental

> Pediatrician - who says needs 1:1 therapy several times a week.

> >  

> > Then today - the preschool director dropped a huge bomb on me.  She

> sent me an email saying that if I wanted to have 1:1 therapy

> then I would have to take him out of the preschool altogether and

> begin itinerant services!  Seriously - change his entire routine over

> one half hour of speech a week?!?!? 

> >  

> > Again, has anyone else had this happen?  I thought kids could get

> 1:1 therapy while attending public preschool?  I hate to remove

> from this school that he has grown to love.  Should I just back off or

> call this woman's bluff? 

> >  

> > Most of the time I think she is just bullying the crap out of a mom

> who is just trying to do right by her child.   This is the same woman

> who called my home a few weeks ago (when I first told her about the

> Developmental Pediatrician's recommendations) and said " I don't tell

> the doctor how to treat patients, so I don't expect her to tell me how

> to run my school and treat students. "   YIKES.  She is one scary lady. 

> I am dreading our next confrontation.

> >  

> > Here is the Preschool Director's email from today....

> >  

> >  

> > Hi Gretchen,

> > Thanks for your response. It looks like you feel that may

> benefit more from Itinerant services verses Center-based services from

> your last e-mail.

> > ..

> > Itinerant services would be once a week for 30 minutes one on one

> with a speech pathologist in his home elementary building. (which is

> Ridgewood Elem)

> >

> > Unfortunately, he would no longer be in our classroom based setting,

> but this sounds like this may better meet his needs according to you

> and your doctors request .

> >

> > Most of our students with speech only needs(as does) do

> follow the itinerant model, but the team here felt that he might

> benefit more from our on-going language rich environment in the

> classroom. Sounds like your experts may feel differently.

> >

> > Many of our parents with children in itinerant speech only services

> have their children attend a private preschool so they can have all

> typical preschoolers with good communication/language skills to model

> during their instruction. This of course is parental choice and is not

> provided by the district.

> >

> > We can certainly talk about which environment(LRE) is most

> appropriate for at the IEP meeting on the 9th. I will also have

> Deb Osbun attend the IEP meeting (she is my itinerant teacher) so she

> can explain fully about Itinerant services. We can also share our list

> of private preschools if you want to move him to an Itinerant model.

> >

> >

> > See you on the 9th and have a great rest of your week.

> > Sharon

> >  

> >  

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know if you ended up having your meeting yesterday. here is

the response from my SD SLP. She said something sounds very wrong with

the whole picture. She sent it on Sunday--but I only found it today.

Sorry.

I think it's really important for this Mom to do some research on her

state's regulations for preschool special ed services. NY state has a

minimum requirement for speech of 2 times a week/ 30 minutes. She

really needs to educate herself on her state's regulations and that is

why an advocate may be helpful. I don't think she automatically has to

bring one to the meeting but they may be a good resource for her in

finding out the laws of her state. Family Empowerment is one agency I

can think of here that does advocacy, but she needs to find a similar

group in her state. I have never heard of putting a minimum amount of

services on the IEP. it is usually a stated amount on the document

that the school has to adhere to in meeting the child's educational

needs. I would want clarification from the district on why they need

to report 30 minutes a month for legal reasons????. I don't think it

is the standard for IEP's. Typically, it is clearly spelled out on an

IEP what services will be provided, how they will be provided ( i.e

ind vs. group) and the duration of the therapy ( i.e 30 vs. 45 minutes).

Next, the amount of therapy given to a student develops through the

evaluation process. A professional ( i.e licensed SLP) will evaluate

the child and determine if the child's speech-language needs are at

age-appropriate20levels. Dependent on the amount of delay of deficit

the child would be recommended for speech and goals would be developed

for the IEP through weaknesses noted during the evaluation process.

What evaluations were done on the child to qualify him for speech?.

Does he have a diagnosis of apraxia? Typically, kids with apraxia

benefit from short frequent sessions. If the child was deemed

eligible for speech, then the weaknesses identified during the

evaluation process should be written as targeted goals on the IEP. The

SLP should be developing her goals from the evaluation process! Sounds

like he has both language and articulation needs based on your e-mail

but again I am answering this blindly as I have not seen his test

scores or other assessment tools from his initial evaluation. Was he

put in this school because of other educational needs? it is not clear

from reading the e-mail. In NY state, if you are deemed eligible for a

service such as speech, it is up to the school district to find you a

provider whether it be within the public school system or through an

outside agency. Is it possible that they don't have enough speech

therapists at the school to provide services to all of the kids. This

may be possible as there is a shortage of speech therapists in many

areas of the country. They would then need to contract with an outside

agency to provide the services stated on the IEP. The preschool

director said he can get one individual session if he leaves the

center- based program, but not within the center-based program. It

doesn't make sense especially considering that he appears to have

articulation needs. Language goals can often be met within a classroom

setting through a push-in model. Most articulation deficits cannot be

met by pushing into a classroom. P is an early developing sound( prior

to age 3) and hard C usually emerges prior to age 3 1/2. Again I

don't have the test scores in front of me but from a developmental

standpoint these sounds typically emerge on the earlier side rather

then much later developmentally. Again if the child goes to 1:1

individual then that change would mean changing the IEP. The IEP is a

legal document so it is important to get as much as possible in the

IEP that you want and not have things such s frequency of therapy

left as vague.

The developmental pediatrician can make his recommendations to the

CPSE, however the evaluations or assessments from the specialists or

professionals in the specific areas, ( i.e SLP, OT, PT) are what drive

the process as they determine the weaknesses in their specific areas

and then can recommend or not recommend based on their assessments.

Again, I stress the mother needs to go back to the initial evaluation

process and scores as to how significant the delays were. If she

doesn't feel the evaluations were accurate, I believe she can request

an independent evaluation from a different agency through the CPSE.

Not absolutely sure about that, but I believe that is true.

Hope this helps. This Mom needs to find out the regs in her state for

preschool special education related services prior to her meeting.

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