Chelation Question

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 05/04/2006 14:41:06 GMT Daylight Time,

larsin@... writes:

Since then, we have seen more

autistic behaviors while chelating (and not chelating) and no

improvements and yeast behaviors. His yeast protocol is samento,

candex,GSE, no fenol and I have added OoO 2 days ago. Also on

probiotics. Should we continue to chelate or take a break and wait til

he is back to normal?

>>>Is he happy stimmy? I just ploughed through is Sam seemed comfortble if

a little dotty LOL. Do whats right for your situation

Good luck

Mandi in UK

[Guest guest]

What chelator? What dose and dosing schedule?

S S

<tt>

<BR>

In a message dated 05/04/2006 14:41:06 GMT Daylight Time,  <BR>

larsin@... writes:<BR>

<BR>

Since  then, we have seen more <BR>

autistic behaviors while chelating (and not  chelating) and no <BR>

improvements and  yeast behaviors. His yeast  protocol is samento, <BR>

candex,GSE, no fenol and I have added OoO 2 days ago.  Also on <BR>

probiotics. Should we continue to chelate or take a break and wait  til <BR>

he is back to normal?<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

>>>Is he happy stimmy? I just ploughed through is  Sam seemed  comfortble if

<BR>

a little dotty LOL. Do whats right for your situation<BR>

<BR>

Good luck<BR>

<BR>

Mandi in UK<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

[Guest guest]

Hello Diane: You may get different answers to this question...but I

would continue to chelate with ALA and treat yeast overgrowth at the

same time. I know many DANs suggest giving even more probiotics during

chelation days and perhaps you can list how much you are giving of each

antiyeast items you mentioned below. When I listed " how much " I was

giving, many wonderful parents here told me that it was not nearly

enough. For example, I was only giving one candex or one drop of

GSE. The people here are the best and great help to me.

We also have done 4 rounds of ALA/DMSA. The first two rounds were

miraculous. The best ever! But, he had yeast when we started

and that yeast increased during chelation. ALA will do that. But, you

will never get rid of yeast until metals are gone...so it is a double

edge sword.

We also see an increase of autistic symptoms....bummer. I hate that.

Usually, yeast is the culprit.... " yeast masks gains " .

And also, consider that even though andy's protocol is the safest and

less chance of redistribution.....you are detoxing which is very hard

on our kids. I have to remember that myself, because I am SO hard on

myself and second guess everything I do. I have NO patience! I

want recovery now, and get very frustrated with the increase of

symptoms.

Andy says....keep chelating, slow, correct dosage, safely, every 3 hour

dosing and we need loads of patience.

Good luck! Kim

>

> Hi all,

> We have chelated 4 rounds with ALA 25mg ( son weighs 109lbs). The

> first round we saw improvements such as being brighter, more self

> aware, more cognitive in general. Since then, we have seen more

> autistic behaviors while chelating (and not chelating) and no

> improvements and yeast behaviors. His yeast protocol is samento,

> candex,GSE, no fenol and I have added OoO 2 days ago. Also on

> probiotics. Should we continue to chelate or take a break and wait

til

> he is back to normal?

> Thanks in advance,

> Diane

>

[Guest guest]

Kim,

Thanks for your reply. I have him on GSE 10 drops 3x/day when he is flared up,

Samento 5 drops per day, OoO capsules 3x/day,Candex 2 caps twice a day, No fenol

with every dose of ALA plus 8 in divided doses in between meals on off days.

Diane

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi,

> I have a couple of questions also about this. If anyone can answer,

I would really appreciate it.1. why does everyone say heal the gut

first-what impact does this have on chelation.

Because chelation can really upset the gut if it is not in some

semblance of balance.

>>2. I have heard from parents and at least 1 doctor to chelate before

4 years old if possible is important, is this true?

I started chelating my son at age 5-1/2. But, the earlier the better.

>> 3. I have read of people doing many rounds of chelation...5-6, how

many is too many and isn't this hard on the liver

I did approx 100 rounds of ALA for my kids. ALA is not hard on the

liver because it actually helps support the liver. Other chelators

can be hard on the liver, but giving milk thistle can help.

Dana

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi all,

> We have chelated 4 rounds with ALA 25mg ( son weighs 109lbs). The

> first round we saw improvements such as being brighter, more self

> aware, more cognitive in general. Since then, we have seen more

> autistic behaviors while chelating (and not chelating) and no

> improvements and yeast behaviors. His yeast protocol is samento,

> candex,GSE, no fenol and I have added OoO 2 days ago. Also on

> probiotics. Should we continue to chelate or take a break and wait til

> he is back to normal?

Try adding a yeast-digesting enzyme, like No-Fenol, Candidase, or Candex.

Dana

[Guest guest]

no, no fillings and thank you so very much for all of these straightforward

answers and so much good info!

Re: [ ] Re: Chelation Question

>

> Comments interspersed.

> S S

>

>

>

>

> <tt>

> Hi,<BR>

> I have a couple of questions also about this. If anyone can answer, I

> would really appreciate it.1. why does everyone say heal the gut

> first-what impact does this have on chelation.

>

> *It's mainly docs (and some people who believe them) who say that. Docs

> benefit financially if they keep having you return for office visits.

> They don't profit much if any when people figure out they can chelate

> without a doc.

>

> 2. I have heard from parents and at least 1 doctor to chelate before 4

> years old if possible is important, is this true?

>

> *The sooner the better, but it's never too late. Less catching up to do,

> socially and academically and less time with a label, potentially easier

> to keep them on a diet when they're younger, etc.

>

> 3. I have read of people doing many rounds of chelation...5-6, how many is

> too many and isn't this hard on the liver

>

> *It takes many, many rounds, many more than 5 or 6. the toxins being

> chelated are hard on the liver, but there are supports like milk thistle

> which help and doing it low and slow helps make it easier on the liver.

>

> 4. What are the best liver support supplements during chealtion.

>

> *Milk thistle is one of them.

>

> I appreciate any and all input. We are getting ready to chealte.

>

> *I presume the individual about to begin chelation has NO mercury amalgam

> dental fillings. Please use Andy Cutler's protocol.

>

> Thank you, <BR>

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com

> The most personalized portal on the Web!

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Do we need to give chelation pro support apart from the regular biomed

> that we are doing before starting chelation?

>

> Right now my son is on SNT/CLO/Ca-Mg/Buffered vit c/Gaba/folinic

> acid/mb12.

Yes, you do need more than that, alhough I'm not sure what's in SNT

exactly. Take a look at the file on supplements in the Files section

of the list. Essentially you want a lot of antioxidants and minerals,

plus various other stuff to support the body during the stress of

chelating.

Nell

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your reply Nell,

When I look at the Krikman's site

(http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/antioxidant/antioxidant_index.html)

under anbtioxidants, I see Detoxification Aid Pro-Support II Capsules

- 180ct. Is that what is typically used? Or is there something else.

Please reply.

Thanks

> >

> > Do we need to give chelation pro support apart from the regular biomed

> > that we are doing before starting chelation?

> >

> > Right now my son is on SNT/CLO/Ca-Mg/Buffered vit c/Gaba/folinic

> > acid/mb12.

>

> Yes, you do need more than that, alhough I'm not sure what's in SNT

> exactly. Take a look at the file on supplements in the Files section

> of the list. Essentially you want a lot of antioxidants and minerals,

> plus various other stuff to support the body during the stress of

> chelating.

>

> Nell

>

[Guest guest]

(http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/antioxidant/antioxidant_index.html)

> under anbtioxidants, I see Detoxification Aid Pro-Support II Capsules

> - 180ct. Is that what is typically used? Or is there something else.

> Please reply.

If it were me, I'd just go with Vit C and E which you can get a whole

lot cheaper than that. Oral glutathione is largely wasted because it

gets digested before it can do any good.

Nell

[Guest guest]

,

I would encourage you NOT to do this. After removing my own obvious

amalgam fillings, I gambled that the crowns in my mouth had

no/little amalgam underneath. There was not a good dental record to

tell me what was the build up under the crowns. After a few rounds I

knew that there was enough nasty stuff under there that I did not

continue. It was evident to me that no good was being

accomplished!!!

Our first grade grandson had the high lead and mercury indices that

you speak of for your child. He was a great responder to dmsa but

had NO amalgams. imo, the risk of further damage is just not worth

it. Is there no way you could get the amalgam replaced quickly adn

then begin chelation as per Cutler protocol?

-- In , " ljkporter " <lkporter91@...>

wrote:

> Our local pediatrician (who attended a couple of DAN!s but isn't a

> full-time DAN! doc) recently asked me if we'd like to chelate for

lead

> now. She is hypothesizing that we might chelate to remove lead

during

> the time we're slowly taking out 's amalgams, then chelate

for

> mercury after all of the amalgams are gone.

>

> Everything I read about chelation says to remove amalgams first.

> Please help me understand the issues of chelating before amalgams

are

> removed. Will chelating for lead harm him b/c he still has the

mercury

> in his teeth? Will it leech mercury from his fillings or

redistribute

> the mercury, harming him? The ped thought chelation would

> just pull the lead and any available mercury from his body, leaving

> the mercury in his teeth until we replace the fillings and chelate

> again. Is this correct?

>

> Thanks in advance for any information.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Absolutely you CANNOT chelate with amalgams in the mouth.

Pamela

" Courage is doing what you're afraid to do. There can be no courage unless

you're scared. "

Eddie Rickenbacker, top US fighter ace, WWI

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of ljkporter

Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 4:24 PM

Subject: [ ] Chelation question

My son, , was adopted from India, and came home with a

relatively high lead level. We could have chelated when he first came

home, but didn't know enough about the pros and cons to do it, so we

declined at that time.

In the meantime, we've come to realize that he has mercury as well. He

was vaccinated in India with thimerosal-containing vaccines and has

multiple amalgams.

He's not a classic ASD kid, but he's got enough physical (digestive,

immune) similarities that we persued biomed for him. We're GFCF and

doing minerals and various supplements, which are helping. But, we

want to help heal his gut, etc., as quickly as possible -- safely.

Our local pediatrician (who attended a couple of DAN!s but isn't a

full-time DAN! doc) recently asked me if we'd like to chelate for lead

now. She is hypothesizing that we might chelate to remove lead during

the time we're slowly taking out 's amalgams, then chelate for

mercury after all of the amalgams are gone.

Everything I read about chelation says to remove amalgams first.

Please help me understand the issues of chelating before amalgams are

removed. Will chelating for lead harm him b/c he still has the mercury

in his teeth? Will it leech mercury from his fillings or redistribute

the mercury, harming him? The ped thought chelation would

just pull the lead and any available mercury from his body, leaving

the mercury in his teeth until we replace the fillings and chelate

again. Is this correct?

Thanks in advance for any information.

[Guest guest]

Do NOT chelate with mercury amalgams in place, you run a high risk of pushing

mercury into the brain.

S S

<p>My son, , was adopted from India, and came home with a<br>

relatively high lead level. We could have chelated when he first came<br>

home, but didn't know enough about the pros and cons to do it, so we<br>

declined at that time. <br>

<br>

In the meantime, we've come to realize that he has mercury as well. He<br>

was vaccinated in India with thimerosal-containi<wbr>ng vaccines and has<br>

multiple amalgams. <br>

<br>

He's not a classic ASD kid, but he's got enough physical (digestive,<br>

immune) similarities that we persued biomed for him. We're GFCF and<br>

doing minerals and various supplements, which are helping. But, we<br>

want to help heal his gut, etc., as quickly as possible -- safely.<br>

<br>

Our local pediatrician (who attended a couple of DAN!s but isn't a<br>

full-time DAN! doc) recently asked me if we'd like to chelate for lead<br>

now. She is hypothesizing that we might chelate to remove lead during<br>

the time we're slowly taking out 's amalgams, then chelate for<br>

mercury after all of the amalgams are gone.<br>

<br>

Everything I read about chelation says to remove amalgams first.<br>

Please help me understand the issues of chelating before amalgams are<br>

removed. Will chelating for lead harm him b/c he still has the mercury<br>

in his teeth? Will it leech mercury from his fillings or redistribute<br>

the mercury, harming him? The ped thought chelation would<br>

just pull the lead and any available mercury from his body, leaving<br>

the mercury in his teeth until we replace the fillings and chelate<br>

again. Is this correct?<br>

<br>

Thanks in advance for any information.<br>

<br>

<br>

_______________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Are you doing oral? Can I be so rude as to ask how much you figure each dose to

be? We are seeing Usman in September and I was trying to figure out what kind of

budget we will need for chelation, if it is recommended.

Thanks

[Guest guest]

Yes we will be doing oral. I don't exactly know how much each dose

will end up being exactly, but the ALA I ordered from Kirkman's (25 mg

capsules) and the DMSA (25 mg capsules) I got from my doctor, but

comes from www.vrp.com. He had suggested 50 mg per dose 3x/day, but I

am going to dose every 4 hours at lower doses and just break open the

capsules. My son still doesn't swallow anyways. Sorry I couldn't be

a little more precise, but maybe the websites will give you some more

information with pricing. Betsy

>

> Are you doing oral? Can I be so rude as to ask how much you figure

each dose to be? We are seeing Usman in September and I was trying to

figure out what kind of budget we will need for chelation, if it is

recommended.

>

> Thanks

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for your feedback. It helps out tremendously.

Take care and good luck.

How do you determine the dose? Is it based on Andy's protocol? or child's

weight?

[Guest guest]

According to Andy' protocol in the files section, the dosing is based

onthe child's weight. Betsy

>

> Thank you so much for your feedback. It helps out tremendously.

>

> Take care and good luck.

>

>

> How do you determine the dose? Is it based on Andy's protocol? or

child's weight?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You can mix them. If the child has had no mercury exposure in the

past 3 months such as amalgam removal or a vaccine, you can use both.

I did both from the start with my 3 year old because his last

exposure was his 2 year old shots and he never had any fillings. My

daughter I had to wait because she has fillings and we had to wait

three months post removal. I actually pushed that out to four months.

>

> Ok, we are going to start chelation this weekend. I have already

> figured out that the protocol the DAN doctor suggested was not

right,

> so we are going to follow Andy's protocol over the weekend since

my

> son is in school. The doctor has recommended that we use both

DMSA

> and ALA, so if I do, can I give them mixed together or do I need

to

> keep them separate? Since we are just starting this journey,

should

> I start with just the DMSA and later add the ALA, or do both from

the

> start? Thanks for the input. Betsy

>

[Guest guest]

DMSA is for lead and cadmium, are those high for your family? Your husband has

NO mercury amalgam dental fillings?

S S

My kiddoes and hubby are both very toxic. They are toxic in almost

al

metals on the chart. In fact many of them were in the red when we

first started. We have been doing supps for about 5 years...heavy and

really looking for more info the last 3. The kids have done 25 rounds

of chelation on ALA. Most of the metals are dropping...slowly..but

dropping...we stopped because the virals seemed to be causing more

issues...chelation was causing more issues and making them much more

miserable...we moved into virals....and our having good gains...but I

am thinking it is time to move back to chelation. My question is

this...since the kids have some liver issues...I am wondering if I

should stick to ALA as we have been doing. I have DMSA but am

wondering if is a good idea for them.

Also hubby is a diabetic and is having a hard time with it. I am

wondering I should start him on ALA. I know that would help with his

diabetic issues. I know he needs ALA...but I sure can't give it to him

as a supp... I am also concerned for both of them as to all the side

effects that I have been hearing.... I would wish for a safer way to

go.

I would like to start soon. Any ideas?

Thanks

Ronni

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[Guest guest]

Yes they are ...and he had his amalgams removed over a year

ago...so that isn't an issue... They are high in alot of the

metals...and their do meet counting rules...at least on the original

hair tests before we started supps.

Thanks

Ronni

<_Shepard@...> wrote:

>

>

> DMSA is for lead and cadmium, are those high for your family? Your

husband has NO mercury amalgam dental fillings?

> S S

>

>

>

>

>

>

> My kiddoes and hubby are both very toxic. They are

toxic in almost al

> metals on the chart. In fact many of them were in the red when we

> first started. We have been doing supps for about 5 years...heavy

and

> really looking for more info the last 3. The kids have done 25

rounds

> of chelation on ALA. Most of the metals are dropping...slowly..but

> dropping...we stopped because the virals seemed to be causing more

> issues...chelation was causing more issues and making them much

more

> miserable...we moved into virals....and our having good gains...but

I

> am thinking it is time to move back to chelation. My question is

> this...since the kids have some liver issues...I am wondering if I

> should stick to ALA as we have been doing. I have DMSA but am

> wondering if is a good idea for them.

>

> Also hubby is a diabetic and is having a hard time with it. I am

> wondering I should start him on ALA. I know that would help with

his

> diabetic issues. I know he needs ALA...but I sure can't give it to

him

> as a supp... I am also concerned for both of them as to all the

side

> effects that I have been hearing.... I would wish for a safer way

to

> go.

>

> I would like to start soon. Any ideas?

> Thanks

> Ronni

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com

> The most personalized portal on the Web!

>

[Guest guest]

You could always try a round of ALA and see how it goes. As long as

you are waking at night might as well chelate everyone? I think that

the secret to minimizing side effects is to start with very low doses.

With your husband you may want to start as low as 5 mg per dose and

see how it goes for a couple of rounds.

J

>

> My kiddoes and hubby are both very toxic. They are toxic in almost al

> metals on the chart. In fact many of them were in the red when we

> first started. We have been doing supps for about 5 years...heavy and

> really looking for more info the last 3. The kids have done 25 rounds

> of chelation on ALA. Most of the metals are dropping...slowly..but

> dropping...we stopped because the virals seemed to be causing more

> issues...chelation was causing more issues and making them much more

> miserable...we moved into virals....and our having good gains...but I

> am thinking it is time to move back to chelation. My question is

> this...since the kids have some liver issues...I am wondering if I

> should stick to ALA as we have been doing. I have DMSA but am

> wondering if is a good idea for them.

>

> Also hubby is a diabetic and is having a hard time with it. I am

> wondering I should start him on ALA. I know that would help with his

> diabetic issues. I know he needs ALA...but I sure can't give it to him

> as a supp... I am also concerned for both of them as to all the side

> effects that I have been hearing.... I would wish for a safer way to

> go.

>

> I would like to start soon. Any ideas?

> Thanks

> Ronni

>

[Guest guest]

>

> My son has been on supplements for 3 months and antifungal for one

month i need to start chelation but i am noticing that he is haveing

a runny nose constantly for the last one week and i was thinking if i

should start him chelating or not please help me on this . My DAN has

given him dmsa+glutathione and edta + glutathione suppositories to be

used alternating weekends as he is mercury and alluminium toxic

according to French lab , he is 4 yrs old .

>

> Hi Andy Cutler does not recommend glutathion in his protocol. read

up on this, good idea to order his book. My 4yr old has a constatly

runny nose, so if I waited to for it to clear before chelating i

would be waiting a long time, maybe have a check up with your GP to

make sure he is well enough before you start. I have often had to

cease a round of chelation if my 4yr year old seems to be getting run

down. Good luck, it all sounds harder than it is, you are doing the

right thing and no one knows your child better than you, so as always

follow your gut instinct. Good luck and keep us posted, we are all

here to help each other! Heidi

>

______________________________________________________________________

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> Be a better friend, newshound, and

> know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

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>

>

[Guest guest]

Did you give him NAC? It will cause a runny nose for quite a long

time. It's known as NAC flu.

> >

> > My son has been on supplements for 3 months and antifungal for

one

> month i need to start chelation but i am noticing that he is

haveing

> a runny nose constantly for the last one week and i was thinking if

i

> should start him chelating or not please help me on this . My DAN

has

> given him dmsa+glutathione and edta + glutathione suppositories to

be

> used alternating weekends as he is mercury and alluminium toxic

> according to French lab , he is 4 yrs old .

> >

> > Hi Andy Cutler does not recommend glutathion in his protocol.

read

> up on this, good idea to order his book. My 4yr old has a constatly

> runny nose, so if I waited to for it to clear before chelating i

> would be waiting a long time, maybe have a check up with your GP to

> make sure he is well enough before you start. I have often had to

> cease a round of chelation if my 4yr year old seems to be getting

run

> down. Good luck, it all sounds harder than it is, you are doing the

> right thing and no one knows your child better than you, so as

always

> follow your gut instinct. Good luck and keep us posted, we are all

> here to help each other! Heidi

> >

>

______________________________________________________________________

> ______________

> > Be a better friend, newshound, and

> > know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

> http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Do any of the moms or dads here have any experience with a chelation

therapy called Kelatox?

It is a suppository & contains calcium disodium, E4M & cocoa butter.

It was recommended by a doctor to chelate my cousin's son who has a lot

of metal in his body.

What do you think of chelation?

Thank so much for your input.

Yvette

[Guest guest]

My son didnt meet the counting rules either but chelation (AC protocol) has been

a huge help for him. Good gains in cognitive and social skills. Self regulation

is also improving. Now starting to extrapolate and ask about/get abstract

concepts, which we hadnt seen before.

Karla

>

> Hi Everyone

> I have been following this group for a couple months. My son who is 5 is

affected with ASD.We have Doing GFCF diet for 1 year also basic supps like vit

c,d,digestive enzymes and probiotics. We did a hair analysis about aug 2009.He

does not fall within the counting rule, but is very high in nickle,moderatly

high in titanium,barium,and aluminum. We saw high positive gains with what we

implemented but, he remains to have huge OCD,tantums and fixations.He is not

doing well in his new kindergarden. I am wondering if chelation will help?Any

advice would be great. I am currently reading Andy'S book.

> B

>