Re: Octuplets mom has son with autism

[Guest guest]

I am so sorry to hear that someone would say that. I am an invitro mom

myself. I made 5 attempts and had 2 kids. It cost 30 thousand. It was worth

every

dime. It changed my life. The people I know who have gone what we went

through are amazingly resourceful people. Many of them have traveled to Canada

because the insurance would not pay for the medication they were taking. Some of

the people I know had tubal ligation revearsals done because the insurance

would not pay for their fertility treatments since they had a voluntary

procedure at 18. The stories are heartbreaking sometimes, second mortgages for

40

thousand dollars to pay for the medical costs participating in a test study to

cover part of the costs, donating some of the eggs because that was the only

way to pay for it and amazingly unselfish people who offered to give of

themselves in ways that most people would not ever consider. We have gone

through a

lot more than most people have to have children. We have had psychological

evaluations, counseling, we have got up at 3am and driven to another state to

have a test done and driven home to go to work for a 10 hour shift the same

day. I have given myself over 300 shots endured hot flashes morning sickness

been accused of being selfish when invitro is probably the most unselfish

thing a person could do. My medication has traveled from a lab by a sherriff to

the airport then by bus where a pharmacist picked it up in the middle of the

night. People really stand up and take notice of you when you pick up your 7

thousand dollar fertinex order at costco. Every time I went to the drugstore

they met the weekly quota just from me. I received a handwritten letter on

parchment paper from Grassley a few years ago after I sent him a letter

explaining my surprise that Principal would pay for Viagra but they will not

pay for fertility drugs. They consider it experimental. Well... I have 2 kids

to prove that it was not an experiment. Life is precious. Do not let the

fact that 1 person who may have done this for the wrong reason ruin it for the

rest of us who are responsible. Most of our doctors were fabulous. Every

positive thing you have ever heard about the Mayo Clinic is true. I would do it

again 10 times over. Did she do this for the wrong reason? Was she

irresponsible? Should her Dr have transferred 8 eggs? I can tell you that there

are

thousands of people who do act responsibly compared to this 1 person. I can

introduce you to the Dr who made me take a break. For some of us it is worth

giving

up every last penny to have what others take for granted...life. May God

Bless and Keep You.

>

>

http://www.trusera.com/health/stories/trusera_on_autism/octuplets-mom-has-son-wi\

th-autism

>

> It turns out the mom who had 8 kids at one time, and who has six others at

home, has a son with autism, according to MSNBC.

> Here is a quote from a woman who babysat:

> Yolanda , 49, of Whittier, said she helped care for the mother's

autistic son three years ago.

> " From what I could tell back then, she was pretty happy with herself, saying

she liked having kids and she wanted 12 kids in all, " told the Long Beach

Press-Telegram.

> " She told me that all of her kids were through in vitro, and I said 'Gosh, how

can you afford that and go to school at the same time? " ' she added. " And she

said it's because she got paid for it. "

> said she did not ask for details.

> Do you think she is irresponsible?

>

>

>

> Love, Gabby. :0)

> http://stemcellforautism.blogspot.com/

>

[Guest guest]

I think that Gabby was using that as a conversational piece or informational

piece.

I don't believe that the comment about " Was she being selfish " was in

regards to the fact that she had in-vitro done, but rather that she has 6 kids

at

home and now another 8 on TOP of those 6, AND the fact that she's a single mom.

She may want a large family-- I totally get that being a mom of 8 children.

Do I care HOW she got those14 kids or if it was from In-Vitro? Absolutely

not! If this were a MARRIED COUPLE I would say-- GOOD FOR THEM.

The very fact that she is a SINGLE WOMAN and that these children have no

father to help raise them, THIS is where she loses me entirely. This is where I

would absolutely agree that she's a selfish person. We all know that even TWO

people raising 14 kids is extraordinarily difficult, but ONE person? That's

a bit over the top, even for ME, a Totally big family supporter!!! (One of

my all time favorite families is the Duggar family just for the record)

And the PRIMARY reason she stated that she wanted a large family was

" because I was an only child and was lonely " . If that's not selfishness-- I'm

not

sure what is??

But-- I am positive that Gabby wasn't referring to this woman receiving

In-Vitro that was irresponsible, but I'm pretty sure it was the fact that she's

a

single woman, and she also HAS NO JOB!

Becky

In a message dated 2/7/2009 9:36:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

stehn4@... writes:

I am so sorry to hear that someone would say that. I am an invitro mom

myself. I made 5 attempts and had 2 kids. It cost 30 thousand. It was worth

every

dime. It changed my life. The people I know who have gone what we went

through are amazingly resourceful people. Many of them have traveled to

Canada

because the insurance would not pay for the medication they were taking.

Some of

the people I know had tubal ligation revearsals done because the insurance

would not pay for their fertility treatments since they had a voluntary

procedure at 18. The stories are heartbreaking sometimes, second mortgages

for 40

thousand dollars to pay for the medical costs participating in a test study

to

cover part of the costs, donating some of the eggs because that was the only

way to pay for it and amazingly unselfish people who offered to give of

themselves in ways that most people would not ever consider. We have gone

through a

lot more than most people have to have children. We have had psychological

evaluations, counseling, we have got up at 3am and driven to another state

to

have a test done and driven home to go to work for a 10 hour shift the same

day. I have given myself over 300 shots endured hot flashes morning sickness

been accused of being selfish when invitro is probably the most unselfish

thing a person could do. My medication has traveled from a lab by a sherriff

to

the airport then by bus where a pharmacist picked it up in the middle of the

night. People really stand up and take notice of you when you pick up your 7

thousand dollar fertinex order at costco. Every time I went to the drugstore

they met the weekly quota just from me. I received a handwritten letter on

parchment paper from Grassley a few years ago after I sent him a

letter

explaining my surprise that Principal would pay for Viagra but they will not

pay for fertility drugs. They consider it experimental. Well... I have 2

kids

to prove that it was not an experiment. Life is precious. Do not let the

fact that 1 person who may have done this for the wrong reason ruin it for

the

rest of us who are responsible. Most of our doctors were fabulous. Every

positive thing you have ever heard about the Mayo Clinic is true. I would do

it

again 10 times over. Did she do this for the wrong reason? Was she

irresponsible? Should her Dr have transferred 8 eggs? I can tell you that

there are

thousands of people who do act responsibly compared to this 1 person. I can

introduce you to the Dr who made me take a break. For some of us it is worth

giving

up every last penny to have what others take for granted...life. May God

Bless and Keep You.

>

>

_http://www.trusera.http://www.http://www.trusehttp://wwwhttp://wwwhttp://www.th\

ttp://www._

(http://www.trusera.com/health/stories/trusera_on_autism/octuplets-mom-has-son-w\

ith-autism)

>

> It turns out the mom who had 8 kids at one time, and who has six others at

home, has a son with autism, according to MSNBC.

> Here is a quote from a woman who babysat:

> Yolanda , 49, of Whittier, said she helped care for the mother's

autistic son three years ago.

> " From what I could tell back then, she was pretty happy with herself,

saying she liked having kids and she wanted 12 kids in all, " told the

Long

Beach Press-Telegram.

> " She told me that all of her kids were through in vitro, and I said 'Gosh,

how can you afford that and go to school at the same time? " ' she added. " And

she said it's because she got paid for it. "

> said she did not ask for details.

> Do you think she is irresponsible?

>

>

>

> Love, Gabby. :0)

> _http://stemcellforahttp://stemcellhttp_

(http://stemcellforautism.blogspot.com/)

>

**************Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on

AOL Music.

(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000\

003)

[Guest guest]

Hi Charlotte,

I'm not sure what was said from Gabby's MSNBC interview that you are

sorry to hear someone say. In my opinion whether or not this single

young mother has a special needs child or not makes no difference in

the fact that she already had 6 children (SIX YOUNG CHILDREN!) and got

implanted with 6 more (SIX MORE) and 2 divided and now she has 8 more.

(that's what I heard the mother claim -others report 8 were implanted)

In my opinion she is completely irresponsible, her mother if she

backed her up on this is irresponsible, her doctors if they did this

knowing her situation are irresponsible...and I felt bad about this

story since I heard it prior to knowing one of the children is

autistic. Yes that makes it even more tragic because we here know how

much more time for therapy and advocating a special needs child takes.

I have a sister in law who is an OT, very intelligent woman. She went

through invitro as well and the first time had my one niece and when

Jess was 3 years old she had invitro again and this time had my niece

and nephew (twins)

I can't even tell you that my sister in law with 2 babies and a 3 year

old almost became a recluse as she said it was too hard to leave to go

anywhere by herself with the 2 babies and the 3 year old.

I'm sure there are others here that would be no problem for....but

even a day care center won't allow the ratio of 1 adult to 14

babies!!!! I think for babies it needs to be 1/4?

When Palin was running this group was in a debate about whether you

can have " one " special needs baby and run the country. I was on the

side of yes she can -because in my opinion that baby not only had his

mother, but his much older loving sisters and brothers, his father,

and probably the best of the best quality care given the situation.

Now we have an unemployed young mother with a special needs child and

13 other babies. At least 8 babies -perhaps the rest are toddlers now

(as if that makes it easier!!!)

So to me this isn't about a mother's love for her children, nor is it

about invitro, to me it's about a very selfish woman who has just

brought 14 babies into this world and is probably going to leave it up

to the rest of the world to help care and raise them. According to

the article below you are talking one million dollars for neonatal

units alone!

Ellen Goodman: Fertility mistreatment

By Ellen Goodman

Published: February 6, 2009

BOSTON: Maybe we owe an apology to the doctors who made the birth

announcement with such pride and excitement. The delivery of eight

babies in five minutes was, they exhaled, " amazing. " The mom was

" incredibly courageous. " All in all it was a " very exciting day, " a

feat for which the 46-member medical team at the California hospital

expected kudos and high fives.

But instead of smiles, they saw jaws drop. Attention turned from the

doctors to the mom, from her courage to her judgment, from the medical

success of this delivery team to the ethical failures of fertility

treatment.

It turned out that Nadya Suleman already had six kids at home. The

Suleman Fourteen don't have a father, they have a sperm donor. They

were apparently all conceived by in vitro fertilization with the last

eight presumably implanted en masse. For good measure, their mother

doesn't have a job. And her family recently filed for bankruptcy.

Before she left the hospital, before the babies left intensive care,

the whole country had gone from " gee whiz " to " are you kidding? "

Everything that we don't really want to talk about in terms of

pregnancy and child rearing - marital status, money, individual

choice, responsibility and technology - had converged in the shouting

and blogging over Nadya Suleman's womb mates.

Does anyone have a right to tell anyone else how many kids to have?

Can only people who can afford them bear children? Do you need a

husband to have a baby? These are questions that make us feel queasy

when we are talking about old-fashioned families. But they take on a

new flavor in the unregulated wild west of fertility technology.

Need we review exactly what's happened since Baby Louise came out of a

petri dish and reproduction became a family business? We now have tens

of thousands of healthy children born every year through fertility

drugs and IVF to delighted families.

Fertility doctors don't say no - nor should they - to single or gay

patients or those who already have children. Doctors do not do home

visits or psychological evaluations or socio-economic profiles on

patients who want children. At most, doctors do what bioethicist

Arthur Caplan calls " a wallet biopsy " to see if they can pay the bill.

We are far more rigorous about accepting people for adoption or foster

care than for fertility treatments. But shouldn't there be limits?

Suleman's mother now famously describes her daughter as " obsessed with

children, " and wishes that she'd chosen to be a kindergarten teacher.

But it turns out that you can have six children and still be treated

for " infertility. " And, here we get to the heart of this case, it

turns out there are no laws in the country limiting the number of

embryos that can be implanted in one womb.

As bioethicist Lori s says, " Women's bodies are not large enough

to hold a litter. " If, as we are told so far, Nadya Suleman was

implanted with eight embryos left over from her earlier treatments, it

is something akin to malpractice. If she wanted all eight implanted

knowing she would refuse to terminate any, it's close to mal-mothering.

The reason why we haven't seen Nadya's fertility doctor on " Larry King

Live " (yet) is that it's against all guidelines to implant more than

one or two embryos in a woman under 35. Given our experience with the

extraordinary high risk of multiple pregnancies for mothers and

babies, anyone who endangers patients ought to lose their license.

This is more than an individual decision. Suleman's babies weighed

between 1 pound 8 ounces and 3 pounds 4 ounces. They will cost at

least $1 million in neonatal care and more if they have the typical

range of disabilities for premature babies. The meter is running at

the neonatal unit.

I wish these eight little people well. I tip my hat to the delivery

team for dealing with an octuplet of problems they didn't create. If

Suleman's brand new publicist succeeds in selling her as a " smart, "

" joyful " mother with a " wonderful sense of humor " who is grateful " for

the miracle of life, " maybe this mother will be able to roll her

degree in child development into a reality program that supports them all.

But right now, a reproductive business that generates so much

controversy has produced a remarkable consensus. Infertility treatment

for an unemployed, single mother of six? Eight embryos in one womb?

There must be a proper word in the medical literature to describe this

achievement. I think the word is " nuts. "

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/06/opinion/edgoodman.1-424180.php

=====

[Guest guest]

If I were a member of the American Medical Association I would take a second

look. I do know of someone who had 21 eggs and donated 7 each to 2 other

couples because it would cover her fertility treatment and she then had 7 eggs

implanted and ended up with triplets. I told her right out that I thought

implanting 7 embryos was crazy. You have to look at the research.

The lady from Iowa Mrs. Mc Cough did not have invitro. With invitro you can

limit the risk of multiple births. The Mc Coughs had 7 and they had the record

for along time. You are right about the risks of birth defects being a lot

higher for multiple births. Two of the kids have a form of CP. I bought there

book. It might help them a little to know that people do care.

I do not know if we should talk about who should and who should not have

kids anyway. I would not want to take care of 14 kids. I do know that there are

people who have kids for the wrong reasons. I know that it was not so long

ago that women did not have a choice about the number of children they could

have and the kids somehow survived. It is not the life that you or I would have

probably chosen but it is someone life.

The county in which I live in has a rule that a registered childcare

provider can only take care of 4 children under the age of 4 and out of the 4

only 3

can be under 18 months. I have taken care of 2 kids that were 2 years old

and 3 kids from the age of 2 months old until they were 1 year old. It was not

terrible. They were all in diapers.

So now I have made the mistake of disclosing something that was deeply

personal to someone that I do not know and for that I am sorry. I should also

have

not taken it so personally.

My comments were very harsh to say the least and for that I am sorry if it

was taken the wrong way but the point I am trying to get across here is that we

need to take a long hard look at why we have to spend all this money for

insurance only to be told that the insurance company does not want to cover all

these things. People resort to taking these chances because they are

desperate to have children and it is such a hardship to pay for these medical

procedures. We drive to Canada because our medication is at least 1 third less

and

it is safe.

It makes all of us look bad when 1 person acts irresponsibly and it should

not be that way. It is not the clinics place to say who can and cannot get 8

eggs implanted but they did have the opportunity to get help for people who act

irresponsibly. They could have and should have simply said, 'NO' the risks

are too high. We do not want to put you in the position where you either 'risk

losing the pregnancy' or have to make the choice of 'selective reduction' We

will not do it. They can refuse. It is not illegal.

The doctors and the medical team should be proud that they were able to

deliver 8 healthy babies.

Charlotte

**************Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on

AOL Music.

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003)

[Guest guest]

Parents filed bankrupcy? Unemployed? Single? How many of my hard earned tax

dollars are paying for this selfish, irresponsible woman's obsession?

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 7, 2009, at 9:23 AM, " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...> wrote:

Hi Charlotte,

I'm not sure what was said from Gabby's MSNBC interview that you are

sorry to hear someone say. In my opinion whether or not this single

young mother has a special needs child or not makes no difference in

the fact that she already had 6 children (SIX YOUNG CHILDREN!) and got

implanted with 6 more (SIX MORE) and 2 divided and now she has 8 more.

(that's what I heard the mother claim -others report 8 were implanted)

In my opinion she is completely irresponsible, her mother if she

backed her up on this is irresponsible, her doctors if they did this

knowing her situation are irresponsible...and I felt bad about this

story since I heard it prior to knowing one of the children is

autistic. Yes that makes it even more tragic because we here know how

much more time for therapy and advocating a special needs child takes.

I have a sister in law who is an OT, very intelligent woman. She went

through invitro as well and the first time had my one niece and when

Jess was 3 years old she had invitro again and this time had my niece

and nephew (twins)

I can't even tell you that my sister in law with 2 babies and a 3 year

old almost became a recluse as she said it was too hard to leave to go

anywhere by herself with the 2 babies and the 3 year old.

I'm sure there are others here that would be no problem for....but

even a day care center won't allow the ratio of 1 adult to 14

babies!!!! I think for babies it needs to be 1/4?

When Palin was running this group was in a debate about whether you

can have " one " special needs baby and run the country. I was on the

side of yes she can -because in my opinion that baby not only had his

mother, but his much older loving sisters and brothers, his father,

and probably the best of the best quality care given the situation.

Now we have an unemployed young mother with a special needs child and

13 other babies. At least 8 babies -perhaps the rest are toddlers now

(as if that makes it easier!!!)

So to me this isn't about a mother's love for her children, nor is it

about invitro, to me it's about a very selfish woman who has just

brought 14 babies into this world and is probably going to leave it up

to the rest of the world to help care and raise them. According to

the article below you are talking one million dollars for neonatal

units alone!

Ellen Goodman: Fertility mistreatment

By Ellen Goodman

Published: February 6, 2009

BOSTON: Maybe we owe an apology to the doctors who made the birth

announcement with such pride and excitement. The delivery of eight

babies in five minutes was, they exhaled, " amazing. " The mom was

" incredibly courageous. " All in all it was a " very exciting day, " a

feat for which the 46-member medical team at the California hospital

expected kudos and high fives.

But instead of smiles, they saw jaws drop. Attention turned from the

doctors to the mom, from her courage to her judgment, from the medical

success of this delivery team to the ethical failures of fertility

treatment.

It turned out that Nadya Suleman already had six kids at home. The

Suleman Fourteen don't have a father, they have a sperm donor. They

were apparently all conceived by in vitro fertilization with the last

eight presumably implanted en masse. For good measure, their mother

doesn't have a job. And her family recently filed for bankruptcy.

Before she left the hospital, before the babies left intensive care,

the whole country had gone from " gee whiz " to " are you kidding? "

Everything that we don't really want to talk about in terms of

pregnancy and child rearing - marital status, money, individual

choice, responsibility and technology - had converged in the shouting

and blogging over Nadya Suleman's womb mates.

Does anyone have a right to tell anyone else how many kids to have?

Can only people who can afford them bear children? Do you need a

husband to have a baby? These are questions that make us feel queasy

when we are talking about old-fashioned families. But they take on a

new flavor in the unregulated wild west of fertility technology.

Need we review exactly what's happened since Baby Louise came out of a

petri dish and reproduction became a family business? We now have tens

of thousands of healthy children born every year through fertility

drugs and IVF to delighted families.

Fertility doctors don't say no - nor should they - to single or gay

patients or those who already have children. Doctors do not do home

visits or psychological evaluations or socio-economic profiles on

patients who want children. At most, doctors do what bioethicist

Arthur Caplan calls " a wallet biopsy " to see if they can pay the bill.

We are far more rigorous about accepting people for adoption or foster

care than for fertility treatments. But shouldn't there be limits?

Suleman's mother now famously describes her daughter as " obsessed with

children, " and wishes that she'd chosen to be a kindergarten teacher.

But it turns out that you can have six children and still be treated

for " infertility. " And, here we get to the heart of this case, it

turns out there are no laws in the country limiting the number of

embryos that can be implanted in one womb.

As bioethicist Lori s says, " Women's bodies are not large enough

to hold a litter. " If, as we are told so far, Nadya Suleman was

implanted with eight embryos left over from her earlier treatments, it

is something akin to malpractice. If she wanted all eight implanted

knowing she would refuse to terminate any, it's close to mal-mothering.

The reason why we haven't seen Nadya's fertility doctor on " Larry King

Live " (yet) is that it's against all guidelines to implant more than

one or two embryos in a woman under 35. Given our experience with the

extraordinary high risk of multiple pregnancies for mothers and

babies, anyone who endangers patients ought to lose their license.

This is more than an individual decision. Suleman's babies weighed

between 1 pound 8 ounces and 3 pounds 4 ounces. They will cost at

least $1 million in neonatal care and more if they have the typical

range of disabilities for premature babies. The meter is running at

the neonatal unit.

I wish these eight little people well. I tip my hat to the delivery

team for dealing with an octuplet of problems they didn't create. If

Suleman's brand new publicist succeeds in selling her as a " smart, "

" joyful " mother with a " wonderful sense of humor " who is grateful " for

the miracle of life, " maybe this mother will be able to roll her

degree in child development into a reality program that supports them all.

But right now, a reproductive business that generates so much

controversy has produced a remarkable consensus. Infertility treatment

for an unemployed, single mother of six? Eight embryos in one womb?

There must be a proper word in the medical literature to describe this

achievement. I think the word is " nuts. "

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/06/opinion/edgoodman.1-424180.php

=====

[Guest guest]

I have heard that she just got a 270,000 dollar settlement but housing is so

expensive in California that 270,000 is not a lot of money at least if you

are going to buy a house. There are some clinics I have heard of that will

implant as many eggs as you want. The lady that I met with triplets was from

Florida and usually the 1st transfer is included in the costs. I had to see a

perinatologist the last time I got pregnant because I had a history of

preeclampsia. I was told that there is a 20% increased chance of getting

preeclampsia

which can be life threatening. I also had to wait. It took me 9 months to

have so they asked that I wait until was 9 months old to try

again. They also thought I should consider having them farther than 1 grade

apart

in school, Josh has a birthday sept 29 so they are 2 years apart. Our

insurance covered about 60% of the cost because ADM had an inclusion in their

policies that they pay for fertility costs and they are the only company I have

ever heard of that does that but our out of pocket expenses were still 30 thou

over a 3 year period. We both had to have a psychiatric evaluation and be

tested for some genetic things and see a counselor a couple times. They offered

to

have me participate in a test study for a drug company and the drug company

would have covered all the costs but I did not go for it because there were

other drugs that were stronger. Fertinex is the drug I took. They have classes

to show you how to give your own shots too. People from all over the world

go there.

**************Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on

AOL Music.

(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000\

003)

[Guest guest]

I think that the Dr. should have to pay for all these kids and not our

taxes. What was the Dr. thinking when he helped her. I really feel sorry for

her

parents. From what I have read and heard on tv they are raising the other

kids. This is very selfish on lots of people. But the all the kids will be

the one hurting in the long run. I thing we all need to say some prayers for

the family.

Rita

**************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499.

(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://\

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[Guest guest]

another thing to think about with the infertility issues and implanting how

many embryos, etc-- some people have serious issues and if you implant 6

healthy embryos, those won't all survive most of the time.

While I believe that implanting 6 at one time is a bit much (that was how

many they implanted with the Octuplet lady) I can totally understand why

someone would WANT to be implanted with that many if they know that there's a

great chance that not even half will survive.

Becky

[Guest guest]

I think IVF is a huge blessing for people who have been unable to have

children using conventional methods. I would not pass judgment on those who

have used IVF to have babies, based on one fool's bad judgment! I'd like to

say I don't pass judgment at all, but that's just not the case.

On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 4:38 PM, <stehn4@...> wrote:

> If I were a member of the American Medical Association I would take a

> second

> look. I do know of someone who had 21 eggs and donated 7 each to 2 other

> couples because it would cover her fertility treatment and she then had 7

> eggs

> implanted and ended up with triplets. I told her right out that I thought

> implanting 7 embryos was crazy. You have to look at the research.

> The lady from Iowa Mrs. Mc Cough did not have invitro. With invitro you can

>

> limit the risk of multiple births. The Mc Coughs had 7 and they had the

> record

> for along time. You are right about the risks of birth defects being a lot

> higher for multiple births. Two of the kids have a form of CP. I bought

> there

> book. It might help them a little to know that people do care.

> I do not know if we should talk about who should and who should not have

> kids anyway. I would not want to take care of 14 kids. I do know that there

> are

> people who have kids for the wrong reasons. I know that it was not so long

> ago that women did not have a choice about the number of children they

> could

> have and the kids somehow survived. It is not the life that you or I would

> have

> probably chosen but it is someone life.

> The county in which I live in has a rule that a registered childcare

> provider can only take care of 4 children under the age of 4 and out of the

> 4 only 3

> can be under 18 months. I have taken care of 2 kids that were 2 years old

> and 3 kids from the age of 2 months old until they were 1 year old. It was

> not

> terrible. They were all in diapers.

> So now I have made the mistake of disclosing something that was deeply

> personal to someone that I do not know and for that I am sorry. I should

> also have

> not taken it so personally.

> My comments were very harsh to say the least and for that I am sorry if it

> was taken the wrong way but the point I am trying to get across here is

> that we

> need to take a long hard look at why we have to spend all this money for

> insurance only to be told that the insurance company does not want to cover

> all

> these things. People resort to taking these chances because they are

> desperate to have children and it is such a hardship to pay for these

> medical

> procedures. We drive to Canada because our medication is at least 1 third

> less and

> it is safe.

> It makes all of us look bad when 1 person acts irresponsibly and it should

> not be that way. It is not the clinics place to say who can and cannot get

> 8

> eggs implanted but they did have the opportunity to get help for people who

> act

> irresponsibly. They could have and should have simply said, 'NO' the risks

> are too high. We do not want to put you in the position where you either

> 'risk

> losing the pregnancy' or have to make the choice of 'selective reduction'

> We

> will not do it. They can refuse. It is not illegal.

> The doctors and the medical team should be proud that they were able to

> deliver 8 healthy babies.

> Charlotte

>

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>

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> )

>

>

[Guest guest]

I would not want to take the chance. If you examine all the statistics you

will find that most people do 3 unless they are a candidate for selective

reduction. Most women her age can successfully carry 3 or perhaps 4 without

serious complications and I might add that it is very difficult to carry that

many

babies. There is a great amount of bedrest involved and not everyone can be

on bedrest for such a long time. I was 43 when we tried our 1st attempt and

they did not think I could carry triplets. I took a chance that 1 would not

survive. The truth of the matter is that with 3 embryos my chance of having a

multiple pregnancy was about 20 percent and that usually results in twins. The

majority of ivf pregnancies are singular (around 40% the last time I

checked). The odds are the same no matter how may times you try. The odds of

getting

pregnant at all go down as we get older so those were the odds if I did get

pregnant. There is no magic number as far as your age goes but we know that

women of color usually age slower than women who are white so they usually stay

fertile about a year longer. The other thing to consider is that many women

lose a pregnancy before they even know that they are pregnant. The odds of

carrying 8 babies and having all of them survive would be incredible.

Ivf is so expensive that some people implant more embryos hoping that they

will be lucky and have at least 1 pregnancy. There can be psychological

effects. People do feel badly when there is a misscarriage but once the embryo

or

embryos are implanted it is as if you are pregnant. There are 2 quantitative

hcg's done. I think the 1st one was at 12 days and the second one was at 14

days. The numbers can tell you if it took. If the second test is lower maybe it

did not take. You can still lose the pregnancy. You can also get a false

positive with a home pregnancy test because you get an hcg shot during the

process.

One of the movies that I really like because I think that this movie is very

empathetic is called " a smile like yours' Although it is not very realistic

I think it really stresses the importance of how people feel when they want to

start a family and it has a happy ending. "

There were 11 different women at work that got pregnant before I did and I

made most of them quilts for their babies, I got pretty depressed at times.

Waiting for that 1st test is very nerve wracking to say the least.

I did the home pregnancy test 8 times with Josh. I took it everyday after

day 8 and then took it every day for 8 days to see if the color was darker each

time I took it. I would take it 1st thing in the morning because that is the

best time to take it I have heard.

The hcg level with was double with the second hcg. At 21 days you can

hear the heartbeat and I think that was the 1st ultrasound but I am not sure.

I was wondering if there was more than 1. Twins would have been ok.

I know of 4 ivf attempts that worked on the 1st and the 4th try. The

fertility drugs are what cost the most money in our case. The drugs are stronger

today probably.

Cyropreservation can be used and the embryos can be thawed and used later.

Maybe they are sort of like twins in a way.

2 of the dixie chix, Celine Dionne. Angelina Jolie. It is getting more and

more common. People are more open about it than they use to be. Times are

changing and women are establishing their careers, buying houses and getting

some

money saved more and more and put off starting a family. Then they find it

difficult to conceive and look to professionals for help.

There are some women who feel that we are being unfair to other women if we

do not disclose our difficulties because it leads people to believe we can

wait as long as we want to have a family which is simply not true of course.

The spotlight was on the McCoughs for awhile but now that the kids are older

Good Housekeeping did not want to do a cover story this year. The people

from the community got together and built them a beautiful house that they let

people come to see before they moved into it and they had a lot of volunteers

from their church who helped. They had a pattern of children's clothing sold (

Mrs Mccough was a seamstress) and they wrote a book called ' 7 from Heaven'

They live in Carlisle. I have never met them personally. It was quite a

secret to keep.

I wish that more insurance companies would cover the costs. The problem is

that it is an elective procedure.

There are support groups for people going through fertility problems. There

are a lot of online support groups now.

Ivf well probably be less controversial as time goes on but some things will

always be controversial.

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[Guest guest]

She could get a real nice house here for that price. I live in West Des

Moines in Iowa. Housing is still affordable here.

[Guest guest]

yes... let's pray for those children.

[Guest guest]

I think it was because of a chemical in the skin. The skin is the largest

organ in the body.

>

> Can I ask what the science behind women of color aging slower is? I

> never knew that.

[Guest guest]

I think the mother needs to figure a way to raise these kids

properly, not us, not the dr.

>

> I think that the Dr. should have to pay for all these kids and not

our

> taxes. What was the Dr. thinking when he helped her. I really

feel sorry for her

> parents. From what I have read and heard on tv they are raising

the other

> kids. This is very selfish on lots of people. But the all the

kids will be

> the one hurting in the long run. I thing we all need to say some

prayers for

> the family.

>

> Rita

> **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499.

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redir=http://ad.doubleclick.

> net/clk;211531132;33070124;e)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If 270 is not enough then it is time to move.

>

> I have heard that she just got a 270,000 dollar settlement but

housing is so

> expensive in California that 270,000 is not a lot of money at least

if you

> are going to buy a house. There are some clinics I have heard of

that will

> implant as many eggs as you want. The lady that I met with triplets

was from

> Florida and usually the 1st transfer is included in the costs. I

had to see a

> perinatologist the last time I got pregnant because I had a history

of

> preeclampsia. I was told that there is a 20% increased chance of

getting preeclampsia

> which can be life threatening. I also had to wait. It took me 9

months to

> have so they asked that I wait until was 9 months old

to try

> again. They also thought I should consider having them farther than

1 grade apart

> in school, Josh has a birthday sept 29 so they are 2 years apart.

Our

> insurance covered about 60% of the cost because ADM had an

inclusion in their

> policies that they pay for fertility costs and they are the only

company I have

> ever heard of that does that but our out of pocket expenses were

still 30 thou

> over a 3 year period. We both had to have a psychiatric evaluation

and be

> tested for some genetic things and see a counselor a couple times.

They offered to

> have me participate in a test study for a drug company and the

drug company

> would have covered all the costs but I did not go for it because

there were

> other drugs that were stronger. Fertinex is the drug I took. They

have classes

> to show you how to give your own shots too. People from all over

the world

> go there.

> **************Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of

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ncid=emlcntusmusi00000003)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Can I ask what the science behind women of color aging slower is? I

never knew that.

[Guest guest]

In the best possible world Liz. That's not reality. She just filed

bankruptcy and the bill for neonatal alone they say will be around a

million dollars. We are the ones paying for those poor children. I

know this is a horrible thing to say -but I wish she was deemed to be

an unfit mother and those poor children (at least the 8 preemies)

could go to loving parents who aren't mentally unstable.

I mean how can anyone think of her as anything but mentally unstable?

And she may not have enough money to pay for her poor little preemies

-but guess she did have enough to hire a publicist!

(so perhaps not mentally unstable -perhaps she saw this as a way for fame?)

" The children are still hospitalized and their mother has not spoken

publicly, but she hired a public relations expert.

The flack, Joann Killeen, said her client has been deluged with offers

for books, TV shows and other deals, but has not made any decisions.

Killeen is doing her best to counter portrayals of the woman - an

unemployed single mom - as unstable and irresponsible.

" She's very joyful. Nadya is a very balanced and together woman, " she

said.

" She's smart, she's bright, she's articulate, she's well-educated and

she has a wonderful sense of humor. "

Good thing. She's gonna need it. "

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/02/03/2009-02-03_octuplet_mom_driv\

en_by_lonely_childhood_.html

=====

[Guest guest]

I guess the best possible world is indeed one where selfishness

remains uncelebrated. We do not have that.

>

> In the best possible world Liz. That's not reality. She just filed

> bankruptcy and the bill for neonatal alone they say will be around a

> million dollars. We are the ones paying for those poor children. I

> know this is a horrible thing to say -but I wish she was deemed to

be

> an unfit mother and those poor children (at least the 8 preemies)

> could go to loving parents who aren't mentally unstable.

>

> I mean how can anyone think of her as anything but mentally

unstable?

>

> And she may not have enough money to pay for her poor little

preemies

> -but guess she did have enough to hire a publicist!

> (so perhaps not mentally unstable -perhaps she saw this as a way

for fame?)

>

> " The children are still hospitalized and their mother has not spoken

> publicly, but she hired a public relations expert.

>

> The flack, Joann Killeen, said her client has been deluged with

offers

> for books, TV shows and other deals, but has not made any decisions.

>

> Killeen is doing her best to counter portrayals of the woman - an

> unemployed single mom - as unstable and irresponsible.

>

> " She's very joyful. Nadya is a very balanced and together woman, "

she

> said.

>

> " She's smart, she's bright, she's articulate, she's well-educated

and

> she has a wonderful sense of humor. "

>

> Good thing. She's gonna need it. "

> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/02/03/2009-02-

03_octuplet_mom_driven_by_lonely_childhood_.html

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry- I hope I did not offend you or anyone else. Everyone is entitled to

their own opinion and the medical costs and risk of birth defects is such a

personal choice that it can strike a nerve. Sometimes when one door closes a

window opens. People who love kids can become teachers, nurses, adopt, join big

brothers and sisters, volunteer at a nursing home, do respite work. Having

kids is the hardest job we will ever do. I think Bill Clinton said that. Maybe

the octuplet story will bring attention to people being responsible when

doing these types of procedures.

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[Guest guest]

The doctor planted 6 eggs before and most of the times she tried only 1

took. That would explain why they used 6 then. I am glad to hear that she plans

to support them. We should not jump to conclusions I guess. I still want people

to know that it is highly unusual to have 6 embryos implanted. The clinics

are required to report their success rates. You ought to google ivf success

rates. In 1997 0r 1998 Hopkins in Baltimore had the highest success rate

and the Mayo Clinic in Rodchester, Minnesota I believe was number 2.

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[Guest guest]

That is terrible. Boy, I do not know how people do it. When I was a little

kid about 45 years ago my parents were worried about making their 101 dollar a

month housepayment on our brand new 900 square foot ranch in Ankeny, Iowa. I

know what you mean. I almost moved to Hunnington Beach California in the 70's

but I never could have afforded to buy a house there. Iowa is cold but it is

a nice quiet place to live, the schools are good. I have never been to New

York and maybe someday I will get there.

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[Guest guest]

I NY Hudson valley it would get you a slanted over garage.

No joke.

From: stehn4@... <stehn4@...>

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Octuplets mom has son with autism

Date: Sunday, February 8, 2009, 3:24 PM

She could get a real nice house here for that price. I live in West Des

Moines in Iowa. Housing is still affordable here.

[Guest guest]

I read in the paper yesterday that the mom had 6 embryos for each of

her first 6 pregnancies, she had singletons except for one pregnancy

that resulted in twins....it is possible that with this most recent

pregenancy, the doctors had no idea that all 6 would take, including

two that would spilt into identical twins. Also, people are stating

our tax dollars paying for these kids, however, do we know for a fact

if the mother has her own insurance or she is on medicaid? She claims

in the newspaper that she has never been on welfare and she will find

a way to make this work...so maybe she has private insurance that has

paid for her preemies' healthcare?

Lori

>

> I think that the Dr. should have to pay for all these kids and not our

> taxes. What was the Dr. thinking when he helped her. I really feel

sorry for her

> parents. From what I have read and heard on tv they are raising

the other

> kids. This is very selfish on lots of people. But the all the

kids will be

> the one hurting in the long run. I thing we all need to say some

prayers for

> the family.

>

> Rita

> **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499.

>

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> net/clk;211531132;33070124;e)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry for the confusion, I only posted this because it stated she had one ASD

child... I in no way would call her or anyone names or even judge for that

mater... And yes all of this is an article not my opinion!!! That is why I add

to my posts the link so you can verify the article!!!

 

I believe she has caused quite a controversy since she had sextuplets (one of

them ASD) and now opted to have 8 more and being a single mom ( The father wants

nothing to do with it)... The concerns are she will have to rely on the

taxpayer's money to be able to raise them all... again not my opinion just

pointing out why she has upset some people... NOT ME THOUGH... More power to

her, I am going nuts with  2 ASD boys, I could never dream of having all this

kids... I know I could not do it at all!!!

 

Love, Gabby. :0)

http://stemcellforautism.blogspot.com/

 

" I know of nobody who is purely Autistic or purely neurotypical. Even God had

some Autistic moments, which is why the planets all spin. " ~ Jerry Newport

 

 

[Guest guest]

LOL you're kidding? $270,000 wouldn't buy a closet here in NJ either.

And if a person has their work and family and Dr's and all their support in

one area, is it really all that wise for them to move?

Becky

In a message dated 2/8/2009 12:07:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

lizlaw@... writes:

If 270 is not enough then it is time to move.

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