Re: Octuplets mom has son with autism

[Guest guest]

Wow....28 kids.....I am a childcare provider with a class b registration. I

can take care of 7 children plus my own 2. My own kids are not counted in

the enrollment because they are over 6. In the summertime when school is out I

usually have 9 kids including my own. I can have 3 infants under 18 months a

4th infant 18-24 months and 3 other children over 24 months plus my 2. Most

childcare providers charge 125 a week under 24 months and 110 if they are over

24 months.

In the day care I took care of 4 infants all under 18 months. We usually

work in pairs. 2 of us took care of 8 infants and it was a 10 hour a day job. It

paid 7.50 an hour. The day care charged the parents 225 a week.

I spend time with each child individually everyday.

I really do not think that she planned on having octuplets. I had invitro

and I took a chance of having triplets. I did this after I had been advised by

the doctors that I could probably not carry triplets, Knowing that for me

selective reduction was not something I could do, it only takes 1. The odds do

not go up that much with more embryos. I think that the more opportunities you

have the better your chances.

We tried 2 the first time because we had a poor response. Our second cycle

was cancelled. The 3rd, 4th, and 5th time we tried with 3 each time. It worked

on the 4th try and the 5th try. We had 2 singletons. I do not usually count

the second cycle because we had to cancel before we had ivf.

This woman took a big chance.

I think she did it because she wanted to have twins.

We all make mistakes in our judgement.

We may all have our own ideas of what a perfect family is.

We can't all be perfect.

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[Guest guest]

Those of us from large families that had good parents did not grow up as a

number, and I doubt these kids will either. i am the youngest of my father's 28

kids and I was not and am not a number. None of my 4 children are a number. In a

way, I sympathize with what this woman is going through as far the comments from

outsiders. I am 23 with 4 kids, ranging from 5 to as yet unborn. And I have been

called every single thing that this woman has been called, publicly at least.

bad decision making maybe, irresponsible, maybe. Unfit parenting, no. Harmful to

the kids, not if they do it right.

I don't really believe that people should have litters, but I also don't think

that it should be worthy of death threats and harassment if one does.

Practice random acts of kindness...

From: stehn4@... <stehn4@...>

Subject: Re: [childrensapraxiane t] Re: Octuplets mom has son with autism

@groups. com

Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 2:51 PM

she used the same donor for all 14. No... we should not call her an unfit

motheer. Look at the Duggans. They have 14 kids. They are a couple and they are

not all the same age. I heard her other kids are all older. Some of them are

around 7. The 2 eggs that split would produce identical twins. She will get

free diapers a free stroller free baby food and formula. I doubt if a book

will be in the works. There probably will not be a book because that has been

done so many times before. If you google ivf success rates I THINK YOU CAN FIND

SORTO and I think that is the place you can find the usual transfer and

success rates. It is confidential. We registered there.

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[Guest guest]

I don't want to sound harsh, but just your word usage here as calling a

large family " the brood "

Is just so VERY insulting.

Truly-- do you realize that?

Having a large family is a lot of work, without a doubt, and it's not for

everyone, that's obvious, but to say " the brood " in this sort of way-- it's just

demeaning to children who come from a large family.

EVERY SINGLE one of my 8 children is a blessing from God, and I treasure

them highly, so when I hear someone refer to *ANY* child as part " of a brood " --

it just raises the hackles on my skin!

Becky

In a message dated 2/9/2009 7:27:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

lisamlivingston@... writes:

I feel for these kids - whether the brood of the Duggar's or the octo-mom.

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[Guest guest]

Well, I'm not sure what the problem is with a grandparent helping out in the

care of the children-- I call that being a family. I am not blessed with

that, unfortunately.

And from what has come out about her-- she's always taken care of them

financially. I think she *just* filed for bankruptcy just now.

Becky

In a message dated 2/9/2009 7:24:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

lizlaw@... writes:

Loves---sure. Cares for...sounds like the govt and her parents are

doing that part.

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[Guest guest]

Huh?

You realize that they have always been self-made people, correct? The

Duggars (Jim Bob) was even in politics in their state. I'm truly not

understanding

what you're implying.

Do you mean to tell me that you think that one of the 18 Duggar children

will go off and expect the gov't to pay for them to raise their own children?

Becky

In a message dated 2/9/2009 7:25:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

lizlaw@... writes:

Perhaps not until one of the 18 does the rely on govt to solve their

problems thing.

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[Guest guest]

LOL -- she's like 33 or something! Shy of being a teen herself? Just

when will she be considered an adult then?

Bek

In a message dated 2/9/2009 8:47:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

kiddietalk@... writes:

It's not like she has teenage children to help her with the 8

preemies -she's just shy of being a teen herself

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[Guest guest]

I think maybe we need to close this subject before there are some really

harsh words said. We need to say a prayer for this family and for all of our

families.

Rita

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[Guest guest]

Now we're really getting off-topic, but I had to jump in ...

In Vietnam where I was born, it's customary for family members to

address each other by a title and the birth order. For example, my

oldest brother would be Anh Hai ( " Anh " means " older brother. "

and " Hai " means " number two. " However, this does not mean he is the

second born child. There's this little legend about how a demon would

seek to eat the first born child of every family, and therefore, the

Vietnamese don't label any child with the number one).

Within my family, however, we call each other by our given name,

either " Theresa " my baptismal name, or " Cam-Ngoc, " which translates

to " Precious Jade. "

A rose by any other name ...

And being Catholics in a third-world country, my parents did have a

large family. Their best gift to me is all my brothers and sisters,

who are my best friends.

Theresa

[Guest guest]

too late. I already shot my mouth off.

But I agree. Let's close this and all get abck to APRAXIC issues and loving the

1,2 , X kids we have and will have.

I may have too modern views for the mega family club....that;s why i AM NOT IN A

GROUP FOR LARGE FAMILIES, LOL 

 

I want to share with apraxic issues, and regardless of where we stand this has

been, fo me, a lively and vigorous repartee of ideas, clashes and cultural

mores.

 

in NYC

From: rdbadge@... <rdbadge@...>

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Octuplets mom has son with autism

Date: Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 8:59 PM

I think maybe we need to close this subject before there are some really

harsh words said. We need to say a prayer for this family and for all of our

families.

Rita

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[Guest guest]

Thank you Rita for wise words. Some of you have personalized this.

But we shouldn't be defending " large families " or " in vitro " as if

that's the issue because to me this isn't about large families, or

about in vitro. To me this is also not about a single unemployed

woman who had sex and " whoops " got pregnant again and this time ended

up having 8 more babies on top of another 6. This is a doctor

assisted and planned by the mother event -and it's clear to me one

that the grandmother, the one raising the 6 children of the unemployed

mother, is and has been against. So some here think they know more

than her?

We have to all step back and look at reality of her situation which is

not any of ours. The danger of what the doctor did implanting that

many babies into this woman is just one of many things that have to be

looked at.

Based on the photos of the house that Kate just posted I think someone

needs to call DYFS for the 6 children she already has. Some say one

of the original 6 children has autism but some report that she's

collecting food stamps and disability for 3 of the 6 children (even

though they don't mention the special needs of the other 2)

" Octuplets' mom Nadya Suleman on food stamps, three older kids receive

disability assistance "

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedishrag/2009/02/octo-mom-nadya.html

Perhaps we can all just wait and let the dust settle so the facts can

all come out. And speaking of facts -why not listen to the family who

is raising the 6? Here's the grandmother's words

(PS the grandmother, , is a retired school teacher)

Grandma Blasts Octuplet Mom: " Nadya's Not Capable "

Suleman inside her home, which is already cramped with 6 children.

" The truth is Nadya's not capable of raising 14 children. "

The mother of the woman who gave birth to octuplets recently is

speaking exclusively to RadarOnline.com and says her daughter's

actions are " unconscionable. "

All of Nadya Suleman's children have been conceived with in vitro

fertilization.

The comments from Nadya's mother are adding fuel to the growing

controversy that has already sparked an investigation by the

California Medical Board into the circumstances surrounding

implantation of six embryos into a woman with six children.

When Nadya, 33, decided to be implanted with multiple embryos,

was stunned. She told RadarOnline.com: " I was very upset. She already

has six beautiful children, why would she do this?

" To have them all is unconscionable to me. She really really has no

idea what she's doing to her children and to me. "

Nadya lives with , a retired teacher, and says Nadya

contributes no money to the support of her own children. Eight people

- soon to be 16 - are cramped into a small three-bedroom house and fed

in shifts.

RadarOnline.com obtained exclusive photos inside the house, photos

that are bound to raise more questions about Nadya's ability to care

for so many children and a RadarOnline.com reporter described the

interior as " filthy " , with food on the walls.

" How she's going to cope, I don't know, " told RadarOnline.com

about her daughter. " I'm really tired of taking care of the six

children and need her to think about how she'll provide for all these

children. "

told RadarOnline.com that Nadya turned her boyfriend into a

sperm donor for all 14 kids, but refused to marry him. " He was in love

with her and wanted to marry her, " said . " But Nadya wanted to

have children on her own. "

Nadya was so determined to have children, she first became pregnant at

16, told RadarOnline.com. She miscarried, said , and

discovered she had blocked fallopian tubes.

said that she and Nadya's father, Ed, begged one doctor not to

implant any more embryos in Nadya, who already had six children. But

Nadya found another doctor to implant six embryos, and two split,

resulting in eight more babies. That doctor's decision to perform the

in vitro has left the octuplets grandmother furious. " I'm really angry

about that, " she told RadarOnline.com.

also voiced her anger over Nadya's claim she was raised in a

dysfunctional family and was lonely as a child. " We raised her in a

loving family and her father always spoiled her, " said.

" The truth is that Nadya hasn't worked since she started having her

children, " , charged, " while Ed and I battled to pay her bills.

" Nadya promised to help me with the bills, but she never has. I lost a

house because of it and now I'm struggling to look after her six. We

had to put in bunk beds, feed them in shifts and there's children's

clothing piled all over the house. "

(and there is a video here too -thanks Kate for posting)

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/02/grandma-blasts-octuplet-mom-nadyas\

-not-capable.php

=====

[Guest guest]

Hi Theresa- your post reminded me of the Thai Dam (not sure that is how to

spell it) There is a section in our cemetary and there are always fresh flowers

there. You can smell them from very far away. When I visit my mother in laws

grave I always go to that section to see all the pretty flowers and how the

graves are decorate. Hope that does not sound morbid or anything like that. I

like a lot of cultural things. My phillipino friends love to cook for me. I

am an eighth blackfoot and my grandma kept the government issued blanket that

was issued to our family. I know this is off the topic. Charlotte

**************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy

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[Guest guest]

Last night on one of the news programs they were saying that she has had

multiple plastic surgeries to have her face look like Angelina Jolie ...seems

she is obsessed with her, and that this is the reason she wants a big family...

and that her own mother stated that she is not fit to take care of the kids...

and now she is also asking for donations... It seems she miss calculated

financially..Ya think?!!!

Love, Gabby. :0)

http://stemcellforautism.blogspot.com/

 

" I know of nobody who is purely Autistic or purely neurotypical. Even God had

some Autistic moments, which is why the planets all spin. " ~ Jerry Newport

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/16/2009 10:36:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

cp_mistyrose@... writes:

I've seen/ heard of everything from multiple kids having autism, to

kid1 got vx'ed and was autistic, kid2 not vx'ed and autistic, to

identical twins (my SIL knew them personally) where one was autistic

even though both were vx'ed. Obviously, this doesn't have to be about

autism, but these issues tend to run in families - I'd be curious to

see the long term results.

==========

I have a close friend that all three of her kids are all different places on

the spectrum and her nephew also has it. Its so scary how many little ones

are effected by this. At the last base we were stationed at I had only one

friend that didn't have a special needs child. Every other person I knew

there had someone.

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[Guest guest]

No comment on the Angelina bit. Since I don't remember seeing it said

yet (and PLEASE don't cause it to start an autism debate), I really

wonder how it will affect views on autism based on her children's

development. Same parents, same environment (to a point) - how many

children will have delays? If all of them are vx'ed, but only 3/14

end up with autism, maybe another 2 with other dev. delays, will that

change views on the roots of these issues?

I've seen/ heard of everything from multiple kids having autism, to

kid1 got vx'ed and was autistic, kid2 not vx'ed and autistic, to

identical twins (my SIL knew them personally) where one was autistic

even though both were vx'ed. Obviously, this doesn't have to be about

autism, but these issues tend to run in families - I'd be curious to

see the long term results.

>

> Last night on one of the news programs they were saying that she

has had multiple plastic surgeries to have her face look like

Angelina Jolie ...seems she is obsessed with her, and that this is

the reason she wants a big family... and that her own mother stated

that she is not fit to take care of the kids... and now she is also

asking for donations... It seems she miss calculated financially..Ya

think?!!!

>

>

> Love, Gabby. :0)

> http://stemcellforautism.blogspot.com/

>  

> " I know of nobody who is purely Autistic or purely neurotypical.

Even God had some Autistic moments, which is why the planets all

spin. " ~ Jerry Newport

>  

>  

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Add me to one having 3 kids on different places of the spectrum.

there's definitely a genetic link in families with pre-dispositions-- and

then there are the environmental and food issues that you toss on top of there

and I think the combo can really whomp these kids

Becky

In a message dated 2/16/2009 3:56:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

Cexytoga@... writes:

In a message dated 2/16/2009 10:36:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

_cp_mistyrose@cp_mistyr_ (mailto:cp_mistyrose@...) writes:

I've seen/ heard of everything from multiple kids having autism, to

kid1 got vx'ed and was autistic, kid2 not vx'ed and autistic, to

identical twins (my SIL knew them personally) where one was autistic

even though both were vx'ed. Obviously, this doesn't have to be about

autism, but these issues tend to run in families - I'd be curious to

see the long term results.

==========

I have a close friend that all three of her kids are all different places on

the spectrum and her nephew also has it. Its so scary how many little ones

are effected by this. At the last base we were stationed at I had only one

friend that didn't have a special needs child. Every other person I knew

there had someone.

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/17/2009 5:25:56 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

kiddietalk@... writes:

Did everyone see this 5 page complaint filed?

========

UGH! I hate it when people not involved in things try to start problems.

Does this mean that anyone in the news that has more than 2.5 kids needs to

worry about some stranger making a complaint? Maybe Jon and Kate or the

Duggars will be next. They both lived in tiny houses for years with a lot of

children.

Sorry stepping off my soapbox LOL!

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[Guest guest]

Did everyone see this 5 page complaint filed?

Nadya Suleman

Suspected Child Abuse

CAROLE ILENE LIEBERMAN, M.D., M.P.H.

A Professional Medical Corporation

PSYCHIATRIST/EXPERT WITNESS

Diplomate, American Board of Psychiatry & Neurology

Clinical Faculty, UCLA Department of Psychiatry

Beverly Hills, CA 90212

http://www.etonline.com//documents/et_nsuleman_papers_090217.pdf

=====

[Guest guest]

Did you bother to read it, or you are just assuming it's some random

" stranger " picking on the size of this mother's house? My question

was " did everyone see this FIVE PAGE complaint " There are some

serious allegations in it and I thought this complaint made it clear

this situation has nothing to do with large families as it had to do

with the safety and well being of the special needs and other (many

other) children -and there you go bringing it back to large families.

That wasn't the point- and it's STILL not the point! ugh.

http://www.etonline.com//documents/et_nsuleman_papers_090217.pdf

=====

[Guest guest]

I read it... I can't believe a professional would use the

words " animals have litters " as a reasonable justification for why

these children should be removed.

Other than that, plenty of valid points were made. I'm afraid to see

how this whole issue plays out.

>

> Did you bother to read it, or you are just assuming it's some random

> " stranger " picking on the size of this mother's house? My question

> was " did everyone see this FIVE PAGE complaint " There are some

> serious allegations in it and I thought this complaint made it clear

> this situation has nothing to do with large families as it had to do

> with the safety and well being of the special needs and other (many

> other) children -and there you go bringing it back to large

families.

> That wasn't the point- and it's STILL not the point! ugh.

>

> http://www.etonline.com//documents/et_nsuleman_papers_090217.pdf

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree . No matter how many children it's children and not

a litter. I posted this filed complaint to share the concern is not

about large families but about this mother.

Number 14 talks about the special needs of 3 of the 6 children she

already has. One of them is autistic and another has ADHD and another

has a speech delay. Based on what we know from this group -one with

autism and one with ADHD...what are the odds given the siblings that

the one with the speech delay has just a simple delay in speech? In

this group we know from history that the child " with the speech delay "

probably won't get the appropriate placement and therapy without

someone pushing to find out why. What is the reason, the diagnosis?

Do they even know what apraxia is for example? Who's going to be the

voice for that one little child with the " speech delay " ? To the world

-the child with the " speech delay " is probably the one that needs the

least attention. I do hope the world is right because from this group

we know it's probably harder at times because the world knows so

little about what is appropriate for our children so it's up to us-

the parents and advocates of these children -to help bring them a voice.

" 14. It is an extremely difficult task to raise 6 children, aged 2 to

7, and provide them with enough love and attention, no less meeting

all of their basic needs. Indeed, Ms. Suleman has relied upon her

mother's help for this. The task is made even more difficult because

one child is autistic, one has ADHD and one has a speech delay. Each

of these `special needs' children need special attention, attention

that is hard to find when there are 5 other siblings – no less 8 more

babies. "

http://www.etonline.com//documents/et_nsuleman_papers_090217.pdf

=====

[Guest guest]

It IS the point.

If my daycare provider, with State supervision , a license, CPR safety, a degree

in child psych and 2 assistants can only have 11 kids in her care who the hell

is the dingbat who thinks it's a good plan to let an imbalanced, unemployed,

clinically depressed and potentially suicidal woman watch

14????????????????????????????????????/

 

Get real people.

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/17/2009 6:02:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

kiddietalk@... writes:

Did you bother to read it, or you are just assuming it's some random

" stranger " picking on the size of this mother's house?

=======

No I read it. But this is from a doctor that from what I read hasn't even

met her and he does being up the number of children a lot in there and not

being able to take care of them. Just analyzed her interviews. That to me is

a

crock. I'm sorry. You can't fully understand someone from a tv interview.

Which is why jurors aren't allow to see news reports. They only let you see

what the media wants to you see. I've heard so many conflicting reports

about this family I can't tell which end is up.

I personally know someone whose life was almost ruined because someone who

had no clue what was really going on called child services. That's why this

bothers me so much.

So my point is its a five page report from someone who has NEVER met her.

How would any of is like it if someone made a complaint like this about us

without ever meeting us. Just seeing something on tv about us and not agreeing.

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[Guest guest]

oh puhlease though-- seriously-- if half of us had more than 2-3 kids, I

wonder how many here would be suspected for child abuse?

I'm a mother to 8 kids who I HOME SCHOOL-- which for that alone, some

people may suspect child abuse and feel that kids NEED socialization so they are

abused being home schooled.

I also choose not to vaccinate-- and THAT might also be someone's opinion of

child neglect or abuse thinking that I'm doing harm by not vaxxing.

I could go on and on-- because it's such a subjective thing-- Who was the

report filed by, and WHEN was it filed? Is this all of a sudden being filed

AFTER the Octuplets were born and people are just dying to get these kids away

from this woman? I mean think about it-- people WANT her to fail, so they

will be doing all they can to take her down.

sorry-- but I'm just really suspicious of most things that the media reports

these days.

Becky

In a message dated 2/17/2009 8:26:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

kiddietalk@... writes:

Suspected Child Abuse

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[Guest guest]

But you see-- first of all, it's been filed NOW after the Octuplets were

born and everyone is scrutinizing how this woman BREATHS let alone everything

else she does.

It was based on the Psychologist evaluating NEWS INTERVIEWS and REPORTs-- it

wasn't based on HER OWN evaluation or examination of this woman in person. I

mean, seriously-- that's just a crock of crap right there.

How about I sit here and evaluate all the stars that are on TV interviews

and see what sort of parents THEY all are.

If we really want to start dissecting people-- let's think-- what ABOUT the

stars and all the drugs and alcohol that their kids are exposed to all the

time, and how many of them are addicted and yet-- they still get to keep their

children?? Does THAT make sense? Is the difference that they have money and

power while this woman does not?

Becky

In a message dated 2/17/2009 9:02:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

kiddietalk@... writes:

Did you bother to read it, or you are just assuming it's some random

" stranger " picking on the size of this mother's house? My question

was " did everyone see this FIVE PAGE complaint " There are some

serious allegations in it and I thought this complaint made it clear

this situation has nothing to do with large families as it had to do

with the safety and well being of the special needs and other (many

other) children -and there you go bringing it back to large families.

That wasn't the point- and it's STILL not the point! ugh.

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[Guest guest]

See- this is one of my points-- ANY PERSON-- professional or otherwise, if

they compare a woman giving birth to human lives to animals having litters--

that's just WRONG and-- well, is quite telling about them as a person, too, I

think.

I've heard the term " litters " several times in reference to this woman--

and I think it's a DISGUSTING term used when talking about a human being giving

birth. Truly disgusting

Becky

In a message dated 2/17/2009 9:59:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

cp_mistyrose@... writes:

I read it... I can't believe a professional would use the

words " animals have litters "

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